Post/Author/DateTime	Post
davethebrave371 06-13-07, 11:17 AM	Re-Posted from an archive. Edit: Added some things. Thanks yrogerg, Fejijar, DragoonDarkfire and Millenia! Note: Any of the Sarlonan ones could easily be goblinoids from ancient Dhakaan with minor adjustments. Obviously almost all of the vestiges need some fluff tweaking, if not a lot, to fit into Eberron. I went through the book, made some notes, and thought to myself, "Hey, two brains are better than one! And the internet has many brains. Many juicy, delicious brains." So here we go. I'll be bolding the options I personally like the best, and adding things to this as people give suggestions (and possibly re-bolding if I like it more than my crappy ideas). Just thought I'd mention, this is without changing their entries except for their legend (and the brief blurb about them before the legend). So influence is the same, sign is the same, mechanics are the same. We're just re-shaping the fluff. Key: (nc) = name needs changing (nc?) = possible name change Acererak(nc?): Two options with this. There's an "official" place for the Tomb of Horrors, which is in the Shadow Marches. So maybe it's an ancient Orc or Hobgoblin lich, from before the days of the Dhakaani Empire. Another idea is to have it be an ancient pre-migration elf lich from Xen'drik (thus placing the Tomb of Horrors there, unless he booked it before the Argonessens did their thing, in which case you could still have it in the Shadow Marches) who follows the "Blood" religion from before it was named as such. It could be placed in Aerenal as well, and he could be one of the reasons Aerenal elves hate negative energy so much. It could also be plopped into ancient Sarlona, as little is known of those ancient kingdoms. I see Sarlona as being the origin of pact magic in Eberron, with it's secrets being carried over to Khorvaire in very small numbers, and perhaps a small anti-Inspired resistance based in an area that isn't Adar (what a thought). Agares: I have no idea. The planar structure is such that Lammania is the only place you find genies (except Fernia, but that's not the kind we need for these mechanics), and while there isn't anything to say that they aren't at war there, nothing suggests they are. Especially not to the scale which they are in the Great Wheel. So really, this one has me stumped. Amon(nc): Possibly a couatl who sided with the rakshasas near the end of the Age of Demons, or a half-couatl/half-rakshasa (or other celestial/fiend combo, or celestial becoming tainted with fiend or what have you), perhaps the missing Hobgoblin deity from the PGtE? Andras: Paladin devoted to Siberys in the Age of Demons (bipedal race that would ride a horse in the AoD? Anyone?) who then became a blackguard to the rakshasas, the rest unchanged. I'd bold that one, only I don't know if there is a race that would have been riding horses back in the AoD. It seems like this epic time of crazy high-HD, Large-size and up superbeings. Possibly a Paladin of the Undying Court who turned to the "Blood" religion and fought for the Vol family during the purges, but then realized they were using him. Or, you could plop it in ancient Sarlona and not have to change anything. Andromalius: Either skip the deity stuff, and just have the thief steal his own soul from Dolurrh instead, or this needs a major rehaul. If it is the former, then why would he be "repentant"? From whence would come the influence behaviours? Either way, plop him in ancient Sarlona. Aym: The head of Clan Noldrun when they fell (changing the invaders to something more Daelkyr-flavoured), or perhaps even a queen of the ancient dwarves of Frostfell before their migrations, with the fire-abilities being related to her hatred of the cold perhaps? The act of becoming a vestige might be a result of daelkyr warping her soul as they killed her, or some such. Balam: Perhaps instead of failing a task set to her by deities, she and another celestial being sought to ascend into the esoteric "land of the gods" to meet with the Host they served. One comes back, bitter about whatever she saw, while the other has never been heard from again. That way it leaves open whether there really is anything, or if perhaps it isn't what the faithful think it is...or perhaps it is, but it's not what Balam was looking for. Either way, she won't talk about it. Buer: No change needed. Chupoclops: A previous era of Dal Quor spawned this beast, and perhaps an era predating the group who attacked the giants. Since even the Quori don't know anything about the eras before this one, this particular vestige would be of great interest to a kalashtar binder (not that Chupoclops would say anything about it's origins). Either that, or one of the eldest and most powerful fiends of the AoD. Dahlver-Nar (nc): Ancient Sarlonan cleric. If you want to keep it in theme with the original Dahlver-Nar from Oerth, maybe make him a Cleric of Dol Arrah or maybe the entire Sovereign Host. Personally, I'd make him a cleric of Aureon...but then, no one but the DM need know what faith he followed. Might've even been the Shadow. Or a daelkyr lord, the lord of teeth. He came to Eberron and fought against a powerful Gatekeeper. The Gatekeepers magic went wild while fighting within the manifest zone and in a freak explosion of magical energies he was banished to a forgotten realm. Dantalion (nc?): Ancient Sarlonan royal family, possibly dabbled in having the bloodline break from Dolurrh in some way. Might be related in some way to Andromalius, Karsus, Paimon and/or Ronove. Possibly have them be members of the family too strong to join with the Dantalion family vestige, but still carrying the curse of not having a place to go. Eligor: One of the first Khoravars (before they had that name), emnity with parents instead of with deities, perhaps? Maybe the elven parent still had the vendetta against dragon-kind fresh in his mind, perhaps a Shadow Marked elf who feared the same kind of retribution he'd seen happen to the Mark of Death, and sent him off to slay some dragons, which the child did obediently because he loved his parents. After he was captured and made into a servant of a powerful chromatic (or even just draconic) study group, his human parent came to rescue him, then rejected him as a monstrosity. Or have the manipulation be that both parents were powerful mages who wanted their child to get dragon components for spells. But that's lame. Or you could make Eligor a member of one of the elves who fought on the side of Vol during the war with the other elves and dragons. He fell in battle against a particularly powerful dragon, and brought back from the dead (as a deathless?) to fight alongside the dragons. Once again he was slain in battle, etc., etc. Eurynome: When Eberron bound Khyber, and made the planet out of his (or her) body, a servant was made to watch over each respective area. One for water, one for air, one for the earth above and one for the depths. The one for air either merged with Siberys' broken form or is still there to this day, unseen and possibly sleeping, making sure Khyber's influence doesn't spread that far. The one for the land above sleeps now, waiting for some big conflict in the future (and perhaps Cyre being wounded has stirred him/her/it to some degree, PLOT HOOK), or might have been killed in the rending of Xen'drik (for which dragons are very, very sorry). The one for the depths either became subsumed by Khyber, or sleeps there, waiting to be the front-line against the forces of evil on some future day of reckoning. But the water one just wouldn't sleep. Kept wandering around and stirring up trouble. But rakshasas were not the only forces of Khyber. Perhaps the event that sparks the Demon-Dragon conflict (or perhaps the first or last of many events that spark the conflict), aboleths get together and wipe the ocean floor with her. Too bad. So sad. Focalor: Nothing needs to change. It's still a mystery in Eberron why this angel and/or demon is crying all the time. Maybe he listens to too much Dashboard Confessional. Geryon (nc): Shavarathian general. Right there in the ECS is states that the devils make alliances of convenience with angels and demons. Perhaps while allied with the angels, one of the devil leaders, maybe the 2nd or 3rd most powerful, was secretly working with demons (or vice versa), and when an attack that would have forever wiped out the side that was "unallied" came to pass, all of his forces switched sides and his "reward" was a powerful ritual that he thought would gift him with immortality. Really, once a traitor, always a traitor, went the thought of the faction he allied with. And so he was sent...where he couldn't come back. Haagenti: Xen'drik legend, possibly saving minotaurs from the Dragopocalypse by sending them to Everice (but where does the beauty thing come in), or creating Minotaurs out of beautiful Frost Giants to save them from the Drageschaton (maybe by mazing them, which is why minotaurs have that ability in Eberron). Halphax: Ancient Sarlonan human (with more humans as the enemy), or pre-Dhakaani (or really early Dhakaani) era Zilargo gnome (if it was even Zilargo at that point). Haures: Plop it in ancient Sarlona, and it's gold. Ipos: No change needed. Karsus (nc): Ancient Sarlonan king's court magician (perhaps Dantalion's?), with a rare lineage (the "Karsites" but with a different name) that still exists to this day. If he was Dantalion's court magician, he was likely the one who orchestrated the ritual (or whatever) that cut them off from Dolurrh. Perhaps his "Karsites" were among the first to discover vestiges (well, first humans anyway, since you got people like Ipos doin' their thing long before that), and perhaps "Dahlver-Nar" was one of them (albeit centuries after the death of Karsus and Dantalion). "Karsus" may have even been Dantalion's grandfather or some such (which presents members of this race with another unique special "ability"...when they die, nothing can bring them back because they're part of Dantalion). It presents a nice way of tying these various vestiges together. If you don't want that, it's simple enough to seperate them (blood-wise) and retain this fluff. If he was a court magician on his own, with no ties to Dantalion, he may have simply been trying to re-create Dantalion's family's ritual for himself (or be the ritual upon which Dantalion's family based their re-creation). He also could be a power-hungry spellcaster that attempted to absorb the power of bound Raja, which killed him and caused his soul to become bound to the Eberron, as well. Leraje: Instead of being deific, maybe just an Epic Archer of ancient Sarlona (might've even fought with Andras, if you like that kind of a link). Or perhaps, Leraje was a celestial or demonic archer, perhaps getting into a contest with her opposite on Shavarath (either some undefined angelic archer species fighting an arrow demon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=4), or the other way around), and doing the same thing Leraje did. Why they then became a vestige might be because the arrow was so crazy good at killing them (because they were just that awesome) that their soul itself was "destroyed". Unfortunately for them, that just meant they became a vestige. The elf-like appearance could come from the fact that the celestial or demon favoured that race, or appeared before an elf summoner more often than not when summoned, or some such (or perhaps was a re-incarnated elven soul or whatever...vestiges look like crazy things that aren't them sometimes, so this can be excused just by virtue of vestiges being batshort insane). Malphas: Xen'drik slave story predating the rebellion. That way the details are a little muddy. For instance, elf "kingdom" likely means, "slaves with more administrative responsibilities" and the assassinations were probably of giants (which is why this guy was powerful enough in his death from grief to be a vestige instead of just a ghost or something). Or perhaps give it an Orc/Aberration twist instead of an Elf/Drow one (but I have such an image of a suave, debonair elf Malphas in my head I just can't accept it). Or keep him as an elf druid, put him in Aerenal, and make his lover a necromancer or intelligent undead, maybe? Marchosias: Sarlonan assassin exiled to Fernia by a cabal of PO'd mage-assassins and take out the devil/afterlife stuff. Otherwise, keep it the same. Maybe those same mage-assassins even sent over the souls of his assassin victims through a planar conduit between Fernia and Dolurrh to finish the job for sure. Naberius (nc?): Eliminate the mention of Cerebrus. Sprinkle paprika, let cool and serve. Orthos: No change needed. Otiax: The poor sap (probably hobgoblin) who started the Xoriat invasion (either by accident or on purpose, this guy was the first victim of the first wave of madness and maddened creatures, and a powerful mage to gate stuff in). Or the one who started the invasion, but it could be on either side. Otiax could be a Daelkyr - the one who opened a gate into Khorvaire - who actually was destroyed almost utterly by some powerful, unreplicated, magic. Either way, this guy has that Xoriat connection, and the whole 'gateway' thing going on. Paimon: Sarlonan swashbuckler-type. Possibly related to Dantalion's line. Alternately, Galifran swashbuckler-type. I prefer my Vestiges more ancient than that, but whatever floats your boat! Ronove: Sarlonan, and maybe a founder of the order which eventually came to host the Kalashtar. It's feasible that the monks were already at least mildly familiar with some of the orders former masters hosting Ronove herself, and were thus a little more accomodating to the idea of the Quori spirits in them and their descendents. Savnok: Way too tied into Greyhawk mythology. Anyone do anything with this? Incomplete Suggestion: Replace every reference to deific weapons and armor with weaponry of a Raja or some such, then we're getting closer. And if we then just replace Hextor and Hieronious with anyone else, and make the vestige-dom a result of the bow itself, it could work. Complete Suggestion: Fluff doesn't really need to be changed. Just make him a legend under the Sovereign Host. Replace Heironious with Dol Arrah and Hextor with the Mockery and you can do basically the same story as a sister/brother instead of brothers. Maybe even have the "mother" role be replaced with Dol Dorn? Not sure about that part, myself, just an idea I had reading DragoonDarkfire's post. Shax: Another ancient tale of Xen'drik, or perhaps another tale about the sundering and someone saving some faction of giants or another (or perhaps a storm giant dragon loyalist/spy who got PWND by a giant who wasn't too happy with dragon magics thwomping their continent in two). Tenebrous (nc): No freaking clue. Anyone got ideas? Millenia: For Tenebrous, I would suggest having it be a rajah, but that may necessitate changing the flavor. For instance, you can keep the general flavor the same (big bad demon/fiend who learned the Last Word and went around the planes screwing things up, then got killed after offing the Primus in Daanvi, which explains why the Primus vestige would exist in Eberron). Or it could be rajah that has managed, somehow, to sense and affect the outside world as a vestige, much like how the one under Flamekeep affects things by pretending to be the Voice of the Flame. Zagan: Also very not-Eberron. World Serpent? Deific ascension? FR all over it. Could be a leader of Yuan-ti who considered himself to be a god. He was destroyed by a few of his followers and now lives on as a Vestige. So that's my list. Ideas are more than welcome. Comments, clarifications, whatever you like. Even screaming fits are cool with me, because I don't have to hear it, and your voice-to-text program might not understand you, so we'll all get a funny-looking garbled post. So, you'll notice that I tied together a lot of vestiges with Dantalion. I think that has a cool flavour myself, but I can understand how people would want every vestige to be an island unto itself, which is also cool, and easy to do with my stuff anyway. As to the connection between Amon and the ones who won't bind if he's there...well, no one knew why in GH or FR anyway...so we can just say it's still a crazy mystery in Eberron.
DragoonDarkfire 06-13-07, 04:21 PM	Here are mine. Savnok: Fluff doesn't really need to be changed. Just make him a legend under the Soverghn Host. Replave Heronious with Dol Arrah and Hextor with the Mockery and you can do basically the same story. Paimon: A famous swashbuckler during the age of Galifare. When his enemies cut off his limbs and replaced them with swords then burried him, they had accidentily placed him within a manifest zone with Xoriat. The twisted magic of the plane transformed him into an aberration (creating the first dancers) but was banished to an ancient realm by the scream of a woman. Dahlver-Nar: a daelkyr lord, the lord of teeth. He came to Eberron and fought against a powerful Gatekeeper. The Gatekeepers magic went wild while fighting within the manifest zone and in a freak explosion of magical energies he was banished to a forgotten realm. Zagan: a leader of Yuan-ti who considered himself to be god. He was destroyed by a few of his followers and now lives on as a Vestige.
davethebrave371 06-13-07, 06:15 PM	I think Dahlver-Nar needs a closer link to binding itself, which is why I like the idea of Dahlver-Nar as he is presented in the ToM, just minus the Greyhawk flavour. Making him a mortal who became too wrapped up in binding is better than focusing on the teeth aspect. Why then would there be teeth of all the various aspects? I still included it up there, but it doesn't feel very bindery in flavour to have it just be "some Daelkyr" Paimon, as well, I don't feel would fit in Galifar. That's too recent in memory, less than a thousand years. Binding always feels like something that needs to be truly ancient. That's why I prefer keeping it as is, only plopping it in Sarlona from before the Inspired and kalashtar arrived. But again, just my opinion. I dropped your suggestion in there. Now Zagan and Savnok I liked. I never thought of using the Dol siblings. What do you think about them guarding Dol Dorn's armour instead of their mother's? And as to Zagan, I could see a Yuan-ti shortly after the fall of Xen'drik finding some ancient giant magics that he felt could make him truly immortal and getting the smackdown from, say, a Chamber agent.
DragoonDarkfire 06-13-07, 07:50 PM	I think Dahlver-Nar needs a closer link to binding itself, which is why I like the idea of Dahlver-Nar as he is presented in the ToM, just minus the Greyhawk flavour. Making him a mortal who became too wrapped up in binding is better than focusing on the teeth aspect. Why then would there be teeth of all the various aspects? I still included it up there, but it doesn't feel very bindery in flavour to have it just be "some Daelkyr" To put it simply? No the initial idea doesn't have anything to do with binding. HOWEVER if we were to change the fluff I presented a bit... such as for instance making the daelkyr not only obsessed with teeth but with Vestiges. Perhaps searching for a way to find the realm of the vestiges it would feel more accurate. Now Zagan and Savnok I liked. I never thought of using the Dol siblings. What do you think about them guarding Dol Dorn's armour instead of their mother's? Hmmm interesting. Dol Arrah and the Mockery being asked to guard their brothers armor and then it being stolen by Savnok? Perhaps in this instance Savnok was an emissary of Dol Dorn and the brothers were forced to kill him? And as to Zagan, I could see a Yuan-ti shortly after the fall of Xen'drik finding some ancient giant magics that he felt could make him truly immortal and getting the smackdown from, say, a Chamber agent. Guess that works.
Millenia 06-14-07, 01:36 AM	For Tenebrous, I would suggest having it be a rajah, but that may necessitate changing the flavor. For instance, you can keep the general flavor the same (big bad demon/fiend who learned the Last Word and went around the planes screwing things up, then got killed after offing the Primus in Daanvi, which explains why the Primus vestige would exist in Eberron). Or it could be rajah that has managed, somehow, to sense and affect the outside world as a vestige, much like how the one under Flamekeep affects things by pretending to be the Voice of the Flame. I hope it helps. Apologies for any incoherence.
davethebrave371 06-14-07, 09:31 AM	Added your stuff, Millenia. I have to say the whole God thing just doesn't work with Eberron, nor really does the demon lord ascendant thing. Involving Primus I'm less hesitant about than another elements of the Great Wheel, as I could see Modrons in Daanvi, and Modrons always need their Primus...so if we could somehow tie this "Tenebrous" Vestige to the Primus of Eberron, that'd be neat. I suppose a Rajah might want to leave Eberron for a spell, but honestly it seems that most Rajahs are content to conquer Eberron itself in the name of Khyber.
Yadot 06-14-07, 08:53 PM	To answer the question of why Tenebrous would want to leave Kyber, perhaps it saw where the Demon/Dragon war was headed and wanted to get out before the Couatls made their move. To do this it found the Last Word and tried to take over Daanvi.
davethebrave371 06-14-07, 10:06 PM	To answer the question of why Tenebrous would want to leave Kyber, perhaps it saw where the Demon/Dragon war was headed and wanted to get out before the Couatls made their move. To do this it found the Last Word and tried to take over Daanvi. See, I can see a Lord of Dust doing that. But a Rajah? They are (literally) godlike in power. Ever checked out KB's article on them in Dragon? Some epic stuff there. They could kick the snot out of quite a number of entities in Deities and Demigods, if you took away the Divine Rank mechanic (or granted the Rajahs some, even 1 or 2).
yrogerg 06-15-07, 06:28 PM	I just wanted to reiterate my support for Karsus being a spellcaster who tried to wrest power from a bound Raja. Part of it is that I don't altogether like the idea of tying several vestages to the same story. This really seems kinda contrary to the flavor of Pact Magic, which seems strongly to suggest that binders discover vestiges from different cultures and histories across the world and "collect" them in a manner; after, all, the vestiges presented in ToM don't even coexist in the same *setting*, let alone the same specific story. Beyond that, it simply seems like the best match for Karsus's flavor, as well as his actual story in FR (Power-hungry mage intends to save his people from an invasion, tries to steal power from God of Magic, is overwhelmed and turned into a hill). It's even the sort of story of (reasonably) good intentions gone horribly wrong wouldn't be a bad fit for Eberron. Finally, it plays up the heretical, vaguely-sinister flavor that Binders, as presented in ToM, have. It generates a great reason for Witch Hunters to crop up among both devotees of Aureon and the Silver Flame, who would consider those binding Karsus to be, in effect, consorting with the Rajas.
davethebrave371 06-16-07, 12:56 PM	I just wanted to reiterate my support for Karsus being a spellcaster who tried to wrest power from a bound Raja. Part of it is that I don't altogether like the idea of tying several vestages to the same story. This really seems kinda contrary to the flavor of Pact Magic, which seems strongly to suggest that binders discover vestiges from different cultures and histories across the world and "collect" them in a manner; after, all, the vestiges presented in ToM don't even coexist in the same *setting*, let alone the same specific story. Beyond that, it simply seems like the best match for Karsus's flavor, as well as his actual story in FR (Power-hungry mage intends to save his people from an invasion, tries to steal power from God of Magic, is overwhelmed and turned into a hill). It's even the sort of story of (reasonably) good intentions gone horribly wrong wouldn't be a bad fit for Eberron. Finally, it plays up the heretical, vaguely-sinister flavor that Binders, as presented in ToM, have. It generates a great reason for Witch Hunters to crop up among both devotees of Aureon and the Silver Flame, who would consider those binding Karsus to be, in effect, consorting with the Rajas. Well, as I said, it doesn't have to be tied to Dantalion. I just think that two different Sarlonan regimes, maybe seperated by thousands of years, could have had a) a King that fits the basic Dantalion decription and b) a sorceror that fits the Karsus description. I think Ohr Khaluun fits "Karsus" best, and really any of the Sarlonan nations could fit Dantalion. Maybe Corvagura or whatever it's called?
yrogerg 06-16-07, 01:41 PM	Well, as I said, it doesn't have to be tied to Dantalion. I just think that two different Sarlonan regimes, maybe seperated by thousands of years, could have had a) a King that fits the basic Dantalion decription and b) a sorceror that fits the Karsus description. I think Ohr Khaluun fits "Karsus" best, and really any of the Sarlonan nations could fit Dantalion. Maybe Corvagura or whatever it's called? Right, but Karus's personal story, quite honestly, is interesting enough that it seems worth retaining as much as possible in its own right, albeit without the trappings of FR, rather than making him a generic court sorceror who dabbled in some generically powerful magic. The Rajas remain the closest things to Deific Powers on Eberron, and conveniently enough, are themselves already bound to Eberron, making it far less random than turning him into a hillock. Also, I'm not at all sure what you meant with Dantalion and having the "bloodline break from Dollurh". At any rate, by your list, Andromalius, Dantalion, Dahlver-Nar, Haures, Karsus, Marchosias, Paimon, and Ronove all come from the ancient Sarlonan Kingdoms. That's a LOT, especially since Dantalion is supposed to be a gestalt. I know you believe that human presence in Kourvaire is too recent to accommodate vestiges (I disagree to some extent on that point), but this really should be mixed up a bit more, IMO.
davethebrave371 06-16-07, 01:54 PM	Right, but Karus's personal story, quite honestly, is interesting enough that it seems worth retaining as much as possible in its own right, albeit without the trappings of FR, rather than making him a generic court sorceror who dabbled in some generically powerful magic. The Rajas remain the closest things to Deific Powers on Eberron, and conveniently enough, are themselves already bound to Eberron, making it far less random than turning him into a hillock. And that sounds fine to me! I don't know what the argument is here, as I agree with you. Also, I'm not at all sure what you meant with Dantalion and having the "bloodline break from Dollurh". As in, he tried to make it so no one could die without resorting to undeath. Which is what he did, in ToM. I just made it Eberron. At any rate, by your list, Andromalius, Dantalion, Dahlver-Nar, Haures, Karsus, Marchosias, Paimon, and Ronove all come from the ancient Sarlonan Kingdoms. That's a LOT, especially since Dantalion is supposed to be a gestalt. I know you believe that human presence in Kourvaire is too recent to accommodate vestiges (I disagree to some extent on that point), but this really should be mixed up a bit more, IMO. For me it's all about the ancient feel. I suppose we could make some into hobgoblins. But humans have only been on Khorvaire for three thousand years, and I see binding stuff as pre-existing the time of Dragonmarked races. And I suppose that's just personal preference, but for the most part I think the youngest of the Vestiges should be from around the time Oalian was awakened (4,100 years ago). And I see that one as probably Dahlver-Nar. Placing them in Sarlona doesn't cheapen the effect, as there were different nations in Sarlona. It's like saying it'd cheapen it to have one from what is now Q'barra, one from what is now Droaam, one from what is now Karrnath, one from what is now Breland and one from what is now the Eldeen Reaches. They're all from Khorvaire, but they're vastly different regions with different histories and different flavours to them. Same goes with Sarlona. I could see Marchosias being a hobgoblin instead of a human, same with Haures and Karsus. I'll edit the OP to reflect these choices, although really you could say and or all of the "human" ones could be from pre-Inspired Sarlona or Dhakaan.
BoBzeMoose 07-01-07, 11:18 AM	okay, A few things. First off, the sovereign host was not brought over from sarlona. There are ruins in Khorvaire that date back before human colinization, along with one face that is erased from all of them, along with his name (robably unnamed or something) Anywho, so, My two cp for savnok is that he was a Dhakanni warlord under the origional sovreign host. As for pact magic, Here's an idea, And I'm just throwing this out: Now, as we all know, pact magic is all about binding your soul to spirits. Sound familiar? what about the Inspired's religion? word for word, that is what they are AGAINST; what they see is evil and vile in the universe, I say we make at least a small portion of the Quori Special ops. dedicated to being the seropaeneans. Also, the witch hunter presitge class would be invaluable in their hunt for both rogue quori and Kalashtar. They much less risky than the other detect guys (this merelyt detects presence of a possesing creature, as opposed to its alignment). however, unlike the Seropaeneans, who wish to wipe out the vestige binders because they dispute a higher power, the Quori wish to study them (they tell the witch biunders that they want to bring them back in to "try and bring them back onto the path", so no dead or alive missions, just capture missions). The quoir want to learn as much as they can about vestiges because they have succeded where the Quori have failed: they can transmit a small ortion of themselves over the planar void, even though their lane is removed far beyond even how quori was. This would allow them to manifest themsleves on the material plane without the need for hanbalani, which I'm sure the Quori would very much like. While they currently have ther binder method, they want to be able to come with comlete control., something the vestiges have yet to be able to achieve. but hey, as I said before, its only my 2 cp; what do you guys think?
Ellorin 07-01-07, 04:24 PM	It could also be plopped into ancient Sarlona, as little is known of those ancient kingdoms. This is the approach I'm inclined to take fir my campaign-Ohr Kaluun seems perfect for that.
Yadot 07-04-07, 08:25 PM	okay, A few things. First off, the sovereign host was not brought over from sarlona. There are ruins in Khorvaire that date back before human colinization, along with one face that is erased from all of them, along with his name (robably unnamed or something) Ah... no. The Sovereign Host was brought to Khorvaire by Sarlonan settlers. The erased god was the sixteenth god of the Hobgoblins. With time and as the early settlers power base grew, the Humans told themselves and history that the other fifteen Hobgoblin gods were primitive and heathen representations of the Sovereign Host. Other than that I like your idea of Sarlonan witch hunters, but Khorvaire should have something similar in the more zealous and militant sects of the Host.
davethebrave371 07-04-07, 08:31 PM	Yeah, BoBzeMoose, SH is from Sarlona. The PGtE explains that the Sarlonan Host followers couldn't fit a hobgoblin god into their pantheon, so they tried to erase it. ...which, in my game, isn't a big deal, as I follow the ECS goblinoids, who are agnostic.