Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ryoden_Anariavas 02-20-07, 08:51 AM	I dont have my book with me but I remember that warforged were unable to be raised via conventional means. If this is acurate what do you think about an Infusion that brings a destroyed Warforged back to life. What level should it be?:thinks:
DarkWarriorKarg 02-20-07, 09:14 AM	I dont have my book with me but I remember that warforged were unable to be raised via conventional means. If this is acurate what do you think about an Infusion that brings a destroyed Warforged back to life. What level should it be?:thinks: Raise Dead works. you must be referring to the onagain/off again Warforged Juggernaut raise/resurrection argument.
Ryoden_Anariavas 02-20-07, 09:19 AM	Raise Dead works. you must be referring to the onagain/off again Warforged Juggernaut raise/resurrection argument. Actualy I thought Raise Dead diddn't work on normal warforged. oops I would still like any input on an infusion if you have any
DarkWarriorKarg 02-20-07, 10:16 AM	Don't have an infusion, but there is a spell in the Spell Compendium & Libris Mortis to "raise" an undead (loses 1 level/HD & I forget the attribute if you're 1 HD). I forget the level. Based on that, a 5th or 6th level infusion "Reconstruct" could be easily derived. Requires 5000 gp worth of dragonshards (instead of diamond dust).
Cifer 02-20-07, 01:23 PM	& I forget the attribute if you're 1 HD Probably charisma, since that's the one undead nearly always use instead of CON. IMO, ressurection/raising/reconstructing should stay in clerical hands. For warforged juggernauts, you need the humanoid essence spell/infusion, though it is debatable whether it can be cast on a "dead" character.
DarkerDreams 02-20-07, 01:57 PM	IMO, ressurection/raising/reconstructing should stay in clerical hands.Why? IMO, that's a horrid idea. Then again, I think the cleric class needs to be significantly weakened- not given more power in the few areas of magic they don't dominate.
DarkWarriorKarg 02-20-07, 02:22 PM	Considering that the artificer can create scrolls of raise dead & reincarnate, it's already out of the cleric's hands. Remember... the arti is ABOVE such mundane classifications as "arcane" and "divine". As for constructs, it's the artificer's specialty. If anyone is to "bring back" any kind of construct, it should be an artificer. Now, if we follow the raise dead concept, then the construct also needs to be in relatively good condition and have been "dead" for no more than (level) days.
Ryoden_Anariavas 02-21-07, 08:59 AM	In many of the classes that dont have 9 levels of spells the spells grow in power faster than the same level spells in the fast progresion class. Should the Reconstruct infusion then be of a lower level than Raise Dead / Resurection spells? not to mention that for the most part infusions are more powerfull than the spells of a similar leven anyway.
DarkWarriorKarg 02-21-07, 10:40 AM	In many of the classes that dont have 9 levels of spells the spells grow in power faster than the same level spells in the fast progresion class. Should the Reconstruct infusion then be of a lower level than Raise Dead / Resurection spells? not to mention that for the most part infusions are more powerfull than the spells of a similar leven anyway. Not true... ask a bard :D Only when the infusion doesn't duplicate an existing spell... and even then, there's a long casting time and/or expensive components. You shouldn't get it before 9th level, even if the arti can craft a scroll of raise dead at 7th level. Remember, this allows you to bring back constructs.... so you can bring back that animated carpet... provided it wasn't shredded... You would also be able to bring back a shield guardian...:D
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 11:11 AM	Or a warforged titan, homunculi, or any number of other creatures. I'd leave the warforged coming back to life as is. But then again, I like to leave lots of stuff 'as is'.
Edymnion 02-21-07, 11:52 AM	Actualy I thought Raise Dead diddn't work on normal warforged. oops I would still like any input on an infusion if you have anySpell Storing Infusion. Infuse "Raise Dead" on the WF corpse, then activate it. Boom, you just raised him with an infusion.
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 12:28 PM	Thats freaking awesome, and should I ever play as a warforged artificer, I will definitely be taking the opportunity to do that to myself.
Cifer 02-21-07, 12:51 PM	Thats freaking awesome, and should I ever play as a warforged artificer, I will definitely be taking the opportunity to do that to myself. Did you ever hear the term "opening a box with a crowbar that is inside"? Spell-storing item creates a one-charge-wand useable by you - I know the "dead" condition of D&D is poorly defined, but using a wand from beyond the grave is usually deemed not possible by most DMs... Spell Storing Infusion. Infuse "Raise Dead" on the WF corpse, then activate it. Boom, you just raised him with an infusion. The problem with that one would be that Spell Storing Item works with spells of level 4 and below while Raise is level 5.
DarkWarriorKarg 02-21-07, 01:06 PM	The problem with that one would be that Spell Storing Item works with spells of level 4 and below while Raise is level 5. But reincarnate is 4th level... us that instead... Warforged Titan -> Normal Warforged Normal warforged -> warforged scout Less and less material is left after each reincarnation...
ArcTan 02-21-07, 01:31 PM	Probably charisma, since that's the one undead nearly always use instead of CON. IMO, ressurection/raising/reconstructing should stay in clerical hands. For warforged juggernauts, you need the humanoid essence spell/infusion, though it is debatable whether it can be cast on a "dead" character. It's debatable whether raise dead doesn't simply work on the Juggernaut anyway, but we don't need to have the whole debate here. (Just keep in mind that in standard D&D, "petitioners" that represent departed souls of characters do not retain those characters' HD or class abilities.)
ArcTan 02-21-07, 01:32 PM	But reincarnate is 4th level... us that instead... Warforged Titan -> Normal Warforged Normal warforged -> warforged scout Less and less material is left after each reincarnation... That's not actually how reincarnate works. (I know, you may have been trying to make a joke, but it's hard to tell sometimes.)
DarkWarriorKarg 02-21-07, 03:06 PM	That's not actually how reincarnate works. (I know, you may have been trying to make a joke, but it's hard to tell sometimes.) It IS a joke...:D Although might be fun in a humourous Eberron adventure... as a recurring non-main villain....
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 03:38 PM	I suppose you could use it as a contingent spell... As to the subject of the joke on reincarnate, remember there is the warforged charger between the titan and the regular forged.
ArcTan 02-21-07, 04:01 PM	I actually think the default way reincarnate works is funnier -- have the villain keep coming back as people of wildly differing race, gender and appearance every time he gets killed, with no way to predict what he'll be next time.
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 05:18 PM	Why does this make me think it sounds like something that would happen in OotS?
RogueElement 02-22-07, 08:33 PM	Why? IMO, that's a horrid idea. Then again, I think the cleric class needs to be significantly weakened- not given more power in the few areas of magic they don't dominate. Amen to that brother!! Clerics are by far the most overpowered class. Even the Complete Mage book finally gave wizards and sorcerers the nice new Reserve feats...oh and the clerics get them too, so wizards still suck. Puh! I say Puh!
Cifer 02-23-07, 01:17 PM	Amen to that brother!! Clerics are by far the most overpowered class. Even the Complete Mage book finally gave wizards and sorcerers the nice new Reserve feats...oh and the clerics get them too, so wizards still suck. Puh! I say Puh! While clerics of course are among the strongest characters, wizards, druids (especially druids, which I would consider to be the stronger of the two when seen Core-only) and artificers don't lag behind that far.
DarkerDreams 02-24-07, 01:23 AM	While clerics of course are among the strongest characters, wizards, druids (especially druids, which I would consider to be the stronger of the two when seen Core-only) and artificers don't lag behind that far. I don't want to derail this thread, I'm sure it's been had millions of times on these boards, I have to point out that saying wizards "don't lag behind that far" is preposterous. Setting aside all other considerations (better hd, bab, saves, weapon/armor selection, turning...) and focusing on the wizard's strongest area (spellcasting) clerics are still better. Clerics need no spellbook, know all the spells on their list, have as many spells per day as a wizard, have extra spell slots for domains, have little or no degredation in spell power (destruction v disintegrate in 3.0 (one save v a wizard making an attack roll, followed by a save, at a higher level)- its a little better in 3.5), have spontanious replacement (healing/inflict), base spell like powers from domains... I could continue- and this is the Wizard's primary schtick. But, then, I'm a little annoyed at the underpower Wizards got. I won't defend Druids, if there's an edge to the druid its not as great as the cleric and druid gets over the rest of the classes. At least the druid also gets a clear (mechanical and limiting) framework which clerics just don't suffer (cleric; I have to behave in accordance with the precepts of my god- if that's limiting I picked the wrong god! druid; I can't use half the stuff on the equipment list. Sure, I can leave core and find replacements, but that's something to negotiated with the DM- not presumed). Artificers, I will make a small defense of- within their own baliwick (the creation of items) they rule supreme. However, raw spellcasting is so not their thing- even with spell storing to broaden their "on command" spell ability they suffer some serious spellcasting limits even compaired to bards...