Why? schimas and eternal wands. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why? schimas and eternal wands. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
snakebliskan
05-11-07, 10:39 AM It seems to me that these things a worthless to a PC. Who wants a wand that can only be used 2 times a day and a perm scroll that can only be used once a day?

To me the cost is to much for an item like this.

Having said that it might be different if anyone could use the wand and if you could use a schima more than 1 time a day.

Am I wrong in this?

Or is this just one more flavor item from eberron?
Miss_Yersinia
05-11-07, 11:51 AM It seems to me that these things a worthless to a PC. Who wants a wand that can only be used 2 times a day and a perm scroll that can only be used once a day?
I like eternal wands and schemas, but especially the wands. Basically, they cover your need for niche spells, like Tongues or See invisibility: You don't want to prepare them, because they're useless most of the time.

So you buy scrolls to have them, but these things are single-use, so an eternal wand is a nice thing to have as an item for emergencies, allowing you to prepare more general spells. :)

Or let's put it in another way: How many spells do you actually need per day? Four? Then two extra spells are an increase of 50%. That's nifty. The trick is only to figure out the spells, that don't depend on the CL very heavily.
Subtle Knife
05-11-07, 11:54 AM Think about it this way: You are a wizard. You can cast a limited repertoire of spells per day a limited number of times. At fifth level, you can cast four 0-level, three first-level, two second-level, one third-level spell, and these selections are not likely to be comprehensive. A minor schema (note the spelling) gives you access to an additional spell per day, an eternal wand two! With wise selection of the spell imbued in the item (ie. spells you might use with some regularity, such as routine buffs, defensive spells, other spells you might be guaranteed to use on a daily basis), a few of these minor magical items can make a spellcaster's life easier.

Add onto this that you can imbue minor schemas with infusions rather than spells (perhaps the only magical items that can be used thusly), and they become an instant boon to the artificer. A minor schema of any of the armor or weapon enhancement infusions basically provides the artificer with additional infusion slots that might be used for other purposes!

I'd call that useful!
SK
Kinger
05-11-07, 05:24 PM Eternal Wands also come with an inherent benefit: Any arcane spellcaster can use them. So, if you have an Eternal Wand of Fireball, your buddy the Magewright can use it when making that Flaming Longsword. Similarly, if you have an Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds (which just so happens to be a bard spell), your party Wizard can use it. This is very useful in parties lacking certain archetypes (like "healer").

Minor Schemas can also be scribed into a spellbook without being expended, if I recall correctly. This may not be a great boon, but it can be handy.
Tzarevitch
05-11-07, 05:25 PM Also as I recall, any arcane caster can use an eternal wand. This makes them wonderful for bards, and other arcane casters with limited spell lists. For blaster-types, or instances where you need to use the wand a lot, they aren't so hot. Also, they don't expend charges so you can't use class abilities or feats that enhance wands at the cost of more than one charge per use on an eternal wand.

Generally, over the short term a standard wand is better as its cost per use is low and it allows you to use it whenever you need it. If you expect to need the wand no more than 2x/day for a long time, the eternal wand is better.

As was pointed out, the minor schema can store an infusion and is one of very few magic items that can do that.

Tzarevitch
Forgivance
05-11-07, 06:11 PM I agree...sarcasm...

Anyhow, saying that one or two extra spells per day is useless is pretty weak argument. Personally I feel that a schema or eternal wand of identify is the sweet spot.

I also think they are really sweet for people that have some UMD they would like to use...a vast number of spells...the fighter can now do his own Shield of Faith, or bull strength (well, my Warforged Fighter 6, Artificer 1, Spellcarved 1 can at least)...oh nice, the rogue can use "find traps" a time or two per day w/o sucking up the clerics resources (which is personal only anyway)...personally, I feel to pick on any magical item, than you need to pick on the artificer arm(s) from magic of Eberron...why? cuz it's creepy.
Edymnion
05-12-07, 08:46 PM You just don't put attack spells in the wands, and they're great.
My old artificer character carried a minor schema of endure elements. She'd activate it every morning, and never worry about if it was going to be hot or cold that day, she was protected all day. The other characters were quite envious of her when we went to Xen'Drik and she was the only one that wasn't sweating like a pig in the heat and humidity.
RogueElement
05-13-07, 12:14 AM How about this: Wraithstrike all day, every day...forever!

Eternal Wands and Minor Schema are just want the doctor ordered if you have a swell metamagic feat, like Persistent Spell, and the metamagic item class ability, feat, or infusion. The 3rd level infusion Metamagic Item is all the reason in the world to play an artificer if you're a power gamer.

An Eternal Wand of Wraithstrike costs only a few hundred gold and with Metamagic Item you can use Persistent Spell on it to make all your attacks touch attacks all day long. Every day. For eternity.

Don't want to waste a whole infusion everyday to get unlimited buffs? Get a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item!

Offer void where prohibited by DM.
Michael_Silverforge
05-14-07, 04:23 PM Master snakebliskan,

I would think that an eternal wand or a minor schema would be highly appropriate for all those post-combat/camp spells that a party will cast on a frequent basis. Some items I have been considering:

Eternal Wand of Cure XX Wounds (bardic of course) (for post combat healing that doesn't require a cleric to 'bolt' his/her prepared spells.
Eternal Wand of Repair XX Damage (for the warforged)
Eternal Wand of Spectral Hand (highly useful for staying back and delivering all the touch spells you want in combat, such as repair, cause wounds, poison, etc)

Minor Schema of Leomund's Tiny Hut or Leomund's Secure Shelter or Rope Trick or Alarm (minimizes surprise monster encounters in the middle of the night)
Minor Schema of Heroes Feast (a good breakfast is the most important meal of the day :D )
Minor Schema of Neutralize Poison or Heal (pretty obvious)
snakebliskan
05-14-07, 10:00 PM Ok I stand corrected!... I can see that there is some use for them... maybe ill get myself one or two..... now to figure out the spells...lol
Nived
05-16-07, 02:07 AM As others have said they can be useful, they're not powerful to to weapons but they're useful.

But remember one thing, not everything has to be USEFUL TO THE PCs, some things are WORLD BUILDING ITEMS, things that make life easier for the people of Khorvaire.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snakebliskan 05-11-07, 10:39 AM	It seems to me that these things a worthless to a PC. Who wants a wand that can only be used 2 times a day and a perm scroll that can only be used once a day? To me the cost is to much for an item like this. Having said that it might be different if anyone could use the wand and if you could use a schima more than 1 time a day. Am I wrong in this? Or is this just one more flavor item from eberron?
Miss_Yersinia 05-11-07, 11:51 AM	It seems to me that these things a worthless to a PC. Who wants a wand that can only be used 2 times a day and a perm scroll that can only be used once a day? I like eternal wands and schemas, but especially the wands. Basically, they cover your need for niche spells, like Tongues or See invisibility: You don't want to prepare them, because they're useless most of the time. So you buy scrolls to have them, but these things are single-use, so an eternal wand is a nice thing to have as an item for emergencies, allowing you to prepare more general spells. :) Or let's put it in another way: How many spells do you actually need per day? Four? Then two extra spells are an increase of 50%. That's nifty. The trick is only to figure out the spells, that don't depend on the CL very heavily.
Subtle Knife 05-11-07, 11:54 AM	Think about it this way: You are a wizard. You can cast a limited repertoire of spells per day a limited number of times. At fifth level, you can cast four 0-level, three first-level, two second-level, one third-level spell, and these selections are not likely to be comprehensive. A minor schema (note the spelling) gives you access to an additional spell per day, an eternal wand two! With wise selection of the spell imbued in the item (ie. spells you might use with some regularity, such as routine buffs, defensive spells, other spells you might be guaranteed to use on a daily basis), a few of these minor magical items can make a spellcaster's life easier. Add onto this that you can imbue minor schemas with infusions rather than spells (perhaps the only magical items that can be used thusly), and they become an instant boon to the artificer. A minor schema of any of the armor or weapon enhancement infusions basically provides the artificer with additional infusion slots that might be used for other purposes! I'd call that useful! SK
Kinger 05-11-07, 05:24 PM	Eternal Wands also come with an inherent benefit: Any arcane spellcaster can use them. So, if you have an Eternal Wand of Fireball, your buddy the Magewright can use it when making that Flaming Longsword. Similarly, if you have an Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds (which just so happens to be a bard spell), your party Wizard can use it. This is very useful in parties lacking certain archetypes (like "healer"). Minor Schemas can also be scribed into a spellbook without being expended, if I recall correctly. This may not be a great boon, but it can be handy.
Tzarevitch 05-11-07, 05:25 PM	Also as I recall, any arcane caster can use an eternal wand. This makes them wonderful for bards, and other arcane casters with limited spell lists. For blaster-types, or instances where you need to use the wand a lot, they aren't so hot. Also, they don't expend charges so you can't use class abilities or feats that enhance wands at the cost of more than one charge per use on an eternal wand. Generally, over the short term a standard wand is better as its cost per use is low and it allows you to use it whenever you need it. If you expect to need the wand no more than 2x/day for a long time, the eternal wand is better. As was pointed out, the minor schema can store an infusion and is one of very few magic items that can do that. Tzarevitch
Forgivance 05-11-07, 06:11 PM	I agree...sarcasm... Anyhow, saying that one or two extra spells per day is useless is pretty weak argument. Personally I feel that a schema or eternal wand of identify is the sweet spot. I also think they are really sweet for people that have some UMD they would like to use...a vast number of spells...the fighter can now do his own Shield of Faith, or bull strength (well, my Warforged Fighter 6, Artificer 1, Spellcarved 1 can at least)...oh nice, the rogue can use "find traps" a time or two per day w/o sucking up the clerics resources (which is personal only anyway)...personally, I feel to pick on any magical item, than you need to pick on the artificer arm(s) from magic of Eberron...why? cuz it's creepy.
Edymnion 05-12-07, 08:46 PM	You just don't put attack spells in the wands, and they're great. My old artificer character carried a minor schema of endure elements. She'd activate it every morning, and never worry about if it was going to be hot or cold that day, she was protected all day. The other characters were quite envious of her when we went to Xen'Drik and she was the only one that wasn't sweating like a pig in the heat and humidity.
RogueElement 05-13-07, 12:14 AM	How about this: Wraithstrike all day, every day...forever! Eternal Wands and Minor Schema are just want the doctor ordered if you have a swell metamagic feat, like Persistent Spell, and the metamagic item class ability, feat, or infusion. The 3rd level infusion Metamagic Item is all the reason in the world to play an artificer if you're a power gamer. An Eternal Wand of Wraithstrike costs only a few hundred gold and with Metamagic Item you can use Persistent Spell on it to make all your attacks touch attacks all day long. Every day. For eternity. Don't want to waste a whole infusion everyday to get unlimited buffs? Get a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item! Offer void where prohibited by DM.
Michael_Silverforge 05-14-07, 04:23 PM	Master snakebliskan, I would think that an eternal wand or a minor schema would be highly appropriate for all those post-combat/camp spells that a party will cast on a frequent basis. Some items I have been considering: Eternal Wand of Cure XX Wounds (bardic of course) (for post combat healing that doesn't require a cleric to 'bolt' his/her prepared spells. Eternal Wand of Repair XX Damage (for the warforged) Eternal Wand of Spectral Hand (highly useful for staying back and delivering all the touch spells you want in combat, such as repair, cause wounds, poison, etc) Minor Schema of Leomund's Tiny Hut or Leomund's Secure Shelter or Rope Trick or Alarm (minimizes surprise monster encounters in the middle of the night) Minor Schema of Heroes Feast (a good breakfast is the most important meal of the day :D ) Minor Schema of Neutralize Poison or Heal (pretty obvious)
snakebliskan 05-14-07, 10:00 PM	Ok I stand corrected!... I can see that there is some use for them... maybe ill get myself one or two..... now to figure out the spells...lol
Nived 05-16-07, 02:07 AM	As others have said they can be useful, they're not powerful to to weapons but they're useful. But remember one thing, not everything has to be USEFUL TO THE PCs, some things are WORLD BUILDING ITEMS, things that make life easier for the people of Khorvaire.