a new war [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

a new war [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
grifo
05-18-07, 01:27 PM i was thinking of starting a war on my campeign, but i need a reason for it to begin.
i know that the easyest way to do this is a brelish civil war, but thats not what i want. i want my war to start with thrane, something makes them go to war, i dont know against who or why but they go to war. and when they start losing and things are getting desparate the make a deal with aundair: aundair gets thaolist back, and in return helps thrane out.
so what i need is help desciding on what started the war, who did it and why.
thoughts? comments?
do you think this is a belivable scenario?
Vharuck
05-18-07, 04:50 PM Thrane might go to war with Karrnath if the Emerald Claw does something disastrous enough. Most of Thrane hates Karrnath, and the Emerald Claw was known during the Last War as the elite special soldiers of Karrnath. True, it's common knowledge that the Emerald Claw has been outlawed in Karrnath, but then again people will latch onto any excuse for a war if they really want one.

Why did the Emerald Claw commit such an act? Vol's still angry with Kaius, and she's looking to spark a new war.
retillin
05-18-07, 06:34 PM What if Thrane found out that Kaius is an undead? Crack open the holy water and get ready for a nice new blood bath. Kaius would be hard pressed to fight off Thrane, Aundair and the Blood of Vol all at the same time. Not to mention a race of horse riding warriors to the south who have no love for him.

Kaius really has very few close nations/people he can call an ally.
Davith Bothain
05-18-07, 06:50 PM Has not Warlord Adal of Aundair been scheming to launch an incursion into Thaliost? If you are unwilling to commit to a war between Aundair and Thrane, perhaps he could attempt to instigate war between Thrane and Karrnath, for instance?
OctaviusIII
05-19-07, 04:43 AM Playing off where this is going...

Aundair is behind the Disastrous Thing that sparks the war, whether by paying the Emerald Claw or framing Karrnathi intelligence. Aundair begins to mobilize to seize the opportunity to take back Thaliost. Two weeks after the fighting begins between Karrnath and Thrane, and two weeks before Aundair is to make its move, Something Horrible emerges from the Mournlands and threatens Thrane/takes out a goodly chunk of its military. Thrane, realizing that it can't fight Karrnath successfully anymore offers to trade Thaliost to Aundair for a military alliance either to deal with the Mournlands threat or to help against Karrnath or both, depending on how you want to go with it.
Cifer
05-19-07, 10:26 AM For another twist, the Keeper of the Flame dies, shortly after having begun making more peaceful contact with some other nation (likely Aundair). Quite a few people suspect foul play, the nation moves onto the verge of civil war during the interregnum and when the new Keeper is chosen, he does what rulers of all time have done to ensure stability: Make war. Karrnath is an obvious target here - blame the death of Jaela on Kaius and everyone is happy.
Further, some dissidents are in favor of ressurecting Jaela and reinstate her as the Keeper.

Somewhat interesting is the question of how and because of whom the pope really died. A few options would be:
-A cardinal (or a few of them) didn't like her course of politics, but she didn't listen to his advice
-The Emerald Claw or the Lords of Dust did it, foreseeing that an alliance of Thrane and [whatever other nation] would probably bring the Silver Flame into that nation which would hamper the organization's success there
-Kaius really did it, believing that any alliances of Thrane would most likely turn against him
-The Flame itself did it, not wishing its people to become tainted by contact with [whatever other nation, though most likely Karrnath]
garner_adam
05-21-07, 04:17 PM A potentially more likely scenario is that Thrane would try to destroy what they consider to be a "lesser nation" and one that never deserved it's position in the Treaty of Thronehold...

Thrane versus Darguun. There's a short stretch in eastern Breland that needs to be crossed in order for this to happen and until they take Gorgonhorn it's possible that Thranish troops would occupy parts of Breland. How? Lots of ways- in particular the local vassals could be sympathetic to the Thranish attack and disobey Boranel.

Eventually Breland goes to war over the matter (ironically defending the Darguul) and Aundair is probably called in to save the day. Then perhaps the Treaty of Thronehold finally makes an appearance and the remaining nations force the parties to cease fighting or suffer a potential coalition.

All of this caused probably by some goblin hating advisors. Easy to make it politically charged if it was to retake land for Cyren refugees... perhaps Oargev ir'Wynarn instigated it.
grifo
05-22-07, 06:27 AM i like a lot of the things i read but i think i found my idea.
it starts wite the assassination of the keeper of the flame by hobgoblin who after the act flees flamekeep in a darguun ship. the people of thrane go into a frenzy and the leading theory is that the assassin was sent by order of the lhesh haruuc. they go to war.
of course breland doesn't let them just murch through and destroy the new peace, so allong wite goblin forces they attack thrane's armey and so begins the war.
what nobody knows is that the assassin was actualy sent by aundair, planning to take thaolist back by either a deal to come to thrane's help or simpely by invading themselves.

so, what do you think?
Cifer
05-22-07, 05:19 PM Then perhaps the Treaty of Thronehold finally makes an appearance and the remaining nations force the parties to cease fighting or suffer a potential coalition.
What remaining nations? Karrnath, ok, although I imagine them to directly help Breland against the flamers. Breland, Aundair, Thrane and Darguun are already tied up. The Valenar would mainly benefit from weakened border patrols and I can't really see Droaam helping anyone. The others just don't really have the military to do anything much (like the orcs) or aren't unified enough (Lhazaar)
Vharuck
05-22-07, 06:09 PM What remaining nations? Karrnath, ok, although I imagine them to directly help Breland against the flamers. Breland, Aundair, Thrane and Darguun are already tied up. The Valenar would mainly benefit from weakened border patrols and I can't really see Droaam helping anyone. The others just don't really have the military to do anything much (like the orcs) or aren't unified enough (Lhazaar)

Remember, the Valenar aren't expanding their territory to... well, expand their territory. The land they conquer and annex is mostly left to whomever lived there and tended it before. They're only expanding and attacking guardposts for a fight.

Kinda like most bullies in elementary school. I guess some might be psychologically traumatized or craving affection, and some may actually really want lunch money, but I'd say more than a few just like to beat kids up.
OctaviusIII
05-22-07, 06:52 PM i like a lot of the things i read but i think i found my idea.
it starts wite the assassination of the keeper of the flame by hobgoblin who after the act flees flamekeep in a darguun ship. the people of thrane go into a frenzy and the leading theory is that the assassin was sent by order of the lhesh haruuc. they go to war.
of course breland doesn't let them just murch through and destroy the new peace, so allong wite goblin forces they attack thrane's armey and so begins the war.
what nobody knows is that the assassin was actualy sent by aundair, planning to take thaolist back by either a deal to come to thrane's help or simpely by invading themselves.

so, what do you think?

I like the premise, but I have two political issues (sorry - PoliSci major):

Aundair wouldn't want to help out Thrane in such a fight. Breland and Aundair enjoyed a close alliance during most of the Last War and are still close. There are some issues, namely with regards to Breland's democracy and Aundair's lack of it, but overall they are close friends. If Aundair is stirring up trouble with Thrane it's to take advantage of the situation. By framing Darguun and forcing Breland into the fight to stop the border incursions, Aundiar puts itself in a prime position to ingratiate itself to a friend while still taking Thaliost back from Thrane.

I also don't think Breland would ally itself with Darguun unless Darguun was clearly the victim. If the Darguul government acted only within the law, not crossing the border without an express treaty of military passage, they may be able to pull of a strategic alliance. That said, Breland is far more likely to grant military passage to Thrane than Darguun, and Darguun is far less likely to ask for it.

Here's how I see it going: Thrane goes into a frenzy and asks Breland for permission. Breland says hell no and Thrane says screw you and does it anyway. Darguun chases off the first incursion force and in the process goes on raping and pillaging the countryside. After a month or so of this back and forth fighting on primarily Brelish soil, the Brelish army gets attacked by one or both sides. This being an act of war, Breland marches to war against them both. Breland calls on Aundair and Karrnath to join the fight to restore order. Karrnath declines, citing domestic concerns, while Aundair happily accepts and marches against Thaliost.

Why does Boranel wait so long? Boranel is described as a peacenik that wants to make the Last War truly the last. He doesn't want to ally himself with Thrane because he doesn't want to start another war with Darguun, nor does Darguun want to start a war with Breland (but since when did goblins listen to orders from Lhesh Haruuc?). The attack on the Brelish soldiers puts Boranel in a politically untenable position. Parliament is all hawkish against both because of the refugee crisis and bloody Chronicle stories, the people want the same, and Brelish sovereignty has been violated. Thus, war comes only slowly but inevitably.
elbrop
05-22-07, 10:42 PM My War Plans (would love feedback)

(hey if any of my players are reading this, stop here please)

Also sorry if I get any names wrong, I'm typing from memory.

In my campaign I’m planning on having Thrane and Aundair form a disturbingly close secret alliance - basically the “Thaliost Question” is a diplomatic deception designed to lull the other nations into thinking these two nations would never work together.

With a border secure Thrane will launch an invasion into Karrnath while Auidair forces sweep into the Eldeen Reaches. Both will reinforce their borders with Breland while simultaneously using diplomatic pressure to keep Breland out of the war.

In addition Aundair agents will bribe/provoke Darguun into aggressive raids into Breland while a similar attempt will be made with Droaam , but I intend player actions to reveal that plot and, depending on their actions they might even swing Droaam into an alliance with Breland. (In my setting the Hags of Droaam are incredibly pragmatic). Either way, throw in New Cyre troubles and Breland won’t be in a strong position to go to war and will initially desperately try to get the warring nations back around a peace table.

Zilargo, as the Switzerland of Eberron, will do nothing but make huge wartime profits. Business as usual for them. I don’t like Gnomes and I don’t like bankers :).

The Mrorholds will rally to Karnnaths defense with a remarkable large and well provisioned army (which will make the more paranoid generals in Karrnath wonder just what their good allies were planning before the war broke out and changed everyone’s weekend plans).

Talenta and Valenar raiders will continue to raid any targets they think they can get away with, but will have a relatively small impact in the war.

After initial success Thrane and Aundair will get bogged down as any dreams of quick conquest get drowned by the reality of an endless war of attrition.

Depending on player actions I think Brelands first military action will be to invade Darguun. In my setting they have been needling Breland with slaving raids (always by “rogue ex-military units”) for years. Nothing major but enough that the Breland army has the full support of the people, parliament and the King. I’m afraid the goblins are in for a bad time in Eberron.

So what do people think?
OctaviusIII
05-23-07, 01:26 AM I think elbrop's war is interesting, but it doesn't quite work with the popular sentiment of Aundair at the time. Besides, two countries launching attacks in opposite directions at the same time seems more than a little suspicious.

Still, I think it could work with the backstabbing of Thrane by Aundair. Basically, the Thaliost Pact was a red herring on Aundair's part. Fairhaven thought that a quick incursion into the Eldeen Reaches (perhaps only for the plains, leaving the forest to Oalian and his druids) could quickly be made.

Now, Fairhaven would have been planning a landgrab since before the signing of the Pact but simply told Thrane about invading. Thrane, feeling more secure, would invade Karrnath. By the time Aundair asks for peace from the Reaches, Thrane and Karrnath would be embroiled in a much deeper war. Four months after the Reaches peace treaty, Aundair would invade Thrane and recapture Thaliost. Now looking at a two-front war, Flamekeep would sue for peace and end the war with Aundair. Or at least, that's the plan being cooked up in the towers of Fairhold. Keeping Breland unbalanced would still be in Aundairian-Thranish interests for the reasons you cited.

What will actually happen is the Reaches will put up much more of a fight than expected and Aundair will end up slogging through. Karrnath will get unexpected help from the Mror Holds, and both nations will find themselves with more than they can handle. In Aundair at least the war will quickly become politically untenable. The Chronicles will soon be asking why they invaded the Reaches when Thaliost was there for the taking, lambasting Queen Aurala and her military advisers for the debacle. Since Aundair is dependent upon its landed nobles for military support, they may soon start withdrawing their troops from the fight.

Lastly, a pragmatic Droaam may want peace with Breland but it sure doesn't go the other way. An alliance between the two wouldn't happen. The Sisters of Sora Kell may be pragmatic, but their best bet is to surround Breland by alliances with Darguun and the Reaches. They have more domestic than foreign issues to worry about, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
grifo 05-18-07, 01:27 PM	i was thinking of starting a war on my campeign, but i need a reason for it to begin. i know that the easyest way to do this is a brelish civil war, but thats not what i want. i want my war to start with thrane, something makes them go to war, i dont know against who or why but they go to war. and when they start losing and things are getting desparate the make a deal with aundair: aundair gets thaolist back, and in return helps thrane out. so what i need is help desciding on what started the war, who did it and why. thoughts? comments? do you think this is a belivable scenario?
Vharuck 05-18-07, 04:50 PM	Thrane might go to war with Karrnath if the Emerald Claw does something disastrous enough. Most of Thrane hates Karrnath, and the Emerald Claw was known during the Last War as the elite special soldiers of Karrnath. True, it's common knowledge that the Emerald Claw has been outlawed in Karrnath, but then again people will latch onto any excuse for a war if they really want one. Why did the Emerald Claw commit such an act? Vol's still angry with Kaius, and she's looking to spark a new war.
retillin 05-18-07, 06:34 PM	What if Thrane found out that Kaius is an undead? Crack open the holy water and get ready for a nice new blood bath. Kaius would be hard pressed to fight off Thrane, Aundair and the Blood of Vol all at the same time. Not to mention a race of horse riding warriors to the south who have no love for him. Kaius really has very few close nations/people he can call an ally.
Davith Bothain 05-18-07, 06:50 PM	Has not Warlord Adal of Aundair been scheming to launch an incursion into Thaliost? If you are unwilling to commit to a war between Aundair and Thrane, perhaps he could attempt to instigate war between Thrane and Karrnath, for instance?
OctaviusIII 05-19-07, 04:43 AM	Playing off where this is going... Aundair is behind the Disastrous Thing that sparks the war, whether by paying the Emerald Claw or framing Karrnathi intelligence. Aundair begins to mobilize to seize the opportunity to take back Thaliost. Two weeks after the fighting begins between Karrnath and Thrane, and two weeks before Aundair is to make its move, Something Horrible emerges from the Mournlands and threatens Thrane/takes out a goodly chunk of its military. Thrane, realizing that it can't fight Karrnath successfully anymore offers to trade Thaliost to Aundair for a military alliance either to deal with the Mournlands threat or to help against Karrnath or both, depending on how you want to go with it.
Cifer 05-19-07, 10:26 AM	For another twist, the Keeper of the Flame dies, shortly after having begun making more peaceful contact with some other nation (likely Aundair). Quite a few people suspect foul play, the nation moves onto the verge of civil war during the interregnum and when the new Keeper is chosen, he does what rulers of all time have done to ensure stability: Make war. Karrnath is an obvious target here - blame the death of Jaela on Kaius and everyone is happy. Further, some dissidents are in favor of ressurecting Jaela and reinstate her as the Keeper. Somewhat interesting is the question of how and because of whom the pope really died. A few options would be: -A cardinal (or a few of them) didn't like her course of politics, but she didn't listen to his advice -The Emerald Claw or the Lords of Dust did it, foreseeing that an alliance of Thrane and [whatever other nation] would probably bring the Silver Flame into that nation which would hamper the organization's success there -Kaius really did it, believing that any alliances of Thrane would most likely turn against him -The Flame itself did it, not wishing its people to become tainted by contact with [whatever other nation, though most likely Karrnath]
garner_adam 05-21-07, 04:17 PM	A potentially more likely scenario is that Thrane would try to destroy what they consider to be a "lesser nation" and one that never deserved it's position in the Treaty of Thronehold... Thrane versus Darguun. There's a short stretch in eastern Breland that needs to be crossed in order for this to happen and until they take Gorgonhorn it's possible that Thranish troops would occupy parts of Breland. How? Lots of ways- in particular the local vassals could be sympathetic to the Thranish attack and disobey Boranel. Eventually Breland goes to war over the matter (ironically defending the Darguul) and Aundair is probably called in to save the day. Then perhaps the Treaty of Thronehold finally makes an appearance and the remaining nations force the parties to cease fighting or suffer a potential coalition. All of this caused probably by some goblin hating advisors. Easy to make it politically charged if it was to retake land for Cyren refugees... perhaps Oargev ir'Wynarn instigated it.
grifo 05-22-07, 06:27 AM	i like a lot of the things i read but i think i found my idea. it starts wite the assassination of the keeper of the flame by hobgoblin who after the act flees flamekeep in a darguun ship. the people of thrane go into a frenzy and the leading theory is that the assassin was sent by order of the lhesh haruuc. they go to war. of course breland doesn't let them just murch through and destroy the new peace, so allong wite goblin forces they attack thrane's armey and so begins the war. what nobody knows is that the assassin was actualy sent by aundair, planning to take thaolist back by either a deal to come to thrane's help or simpely by invading themselves. so, what do you think?
Cifer 05-22-07, 05:19 PM	Then perhaps the Treaty of Thronehold finally makes an appearance and the remaining nations force the parties to cease fighting or suffer a potential coalition. What remaining nations? Karrnath, ok, although I imagine them to directly help Breland against the flamers. Breland, Aundair, Thrane and Darguun are already tied up. The Valenar would mainly benefit from weakened border patrols and I can't really see Droaam helping anyone. The others just don't really have the military to do anything much (like the orcs) or aren't unified enough (Lhazaar)
Vharuck 05-22-07, 06:09 PM	What remaining nations? Karrnath, ok, although I imagine them to directly help Breland against the flamers. Breland, Aundair, Thrane and Darguun are already tied up. The Valenar would mainly benefit from weakened border patrols and I can't really see Droaam helping anyone. The others just don't really have the military to do anything much (like the orcs) or aren't unified enough (Lhazaar) Remember, the Valenar aren't expanding their territory to... well, expand their territory. The land they conquer and annex is mostly left to whomever lived there and tended it before. They're only expanding and attacking guardposts for a fight. Kinda like most bullies in elementary school. I guess some might be psychologically traumatized or craving affection, and some may actually really want lunch money, but I'd say more than a few just like to beat kids up.
OctaviusIII 05-22-07, 06:52 PM	i like a lot of the things i read but i think i found my idea. it starts wite the assassination of the keeper of the flame by hobgoblin who after the act flees flamekeep in a darguun ship. the people of thrane go into a frenzy and the leading theory is that the assassin was sent by order of the lhesh haruuc. they go to war. of course breland doesn't let them just murch through and destroy the new peace, so allong wite goblin forces they attack thrane's armey and so begins the war. what nobody knows is that the assassin was actualy sent by aundair, planning to take thaolist back by either a deal to come to thrane's help or simpely by invading themselves. so, what do you think? I like the premise, but I have two political issues (sorry - PoliSci major): Aundair wouldn't want to help out Thrane in such a fight. Breland and Aundair enjoyed a close alliance during most of the Last War and are still close. There are some issues, namely with regards to Breland's democracy and Aundair's lack of it, but overall they are close friends. If Aundair is stirring up trouble with Thrane it's to take advantage of the situation. By framing Darguun and forcing Breland into the fight to stop the border incursions, Aundiar puts itself in a prime position to ingratiate itself to a friend while still taking Thaliost back from Thrane. I also don't think Breland would ally itself with Darguun unless Darguun was clearly the victim. If the Darguul government acted only within the law, not crossing the border without an express treaty of military passage, they may be able to pull of a strategic alliance. That said, Breland is far more likely to grant military passage to Thrane than Darguun, and Darguun is far less likely to ask for it. Here's how I see it going: Thrane goes into a frenzy and asks Breland for permission. Breland says hell no and Thrane says screw you and does it anyway. Darguun chases off the first incursion force and in the process goes on raping and pillaging the countryside. After a month or so of this back and forth fighting on primarily Brelish soil, the Brelish army gets attacked by one or both sides. This being an act of war, Breland marches to war against them both. Breland calls on Aundair and Karrnath to join the fight to restore order. Karrnath declines, citing domestic concerns, while Aundair happily accepts and marches against Thaliost. Why does Boranel wait so long? Boranel is described as a peacenik that wants to make the Last War truly the last. He doesn't want to ally himself with Thrane because he doesn't want to start another war with Darguun, nor does Darguun want to start a war with Breland (but since when did goblins listen to orders from Lhesh Haruuc?). The attack on the Brelish soldiers puts Boranel in a politically untenable position. Parliament is all hawkish against both because of the refugee crisis and bloody Chronicle stories, the people want the same, and Brelish sovereignty has been violated. Thus, war comes only slowly but inevitably.
elbrop 05-22-07, 10:42 PM	My War Plans (would love feedback) (hey if any of my players are reading this, stop here please) Also sorry if I get any names wrong, I'm typing from memory. In my campaign I’m planning on having Thrane and Aundair form a disturbingly close secret alliance - basically the “Thaliost Question” is a diplomatic deception designed to lull the other nations into thinking these two nations would never work together. With a border secure Thrane will launch an invasion into Karrnath while Auidair forces sweep into the Eldeen Reaches. Both will reinforce their borders with Breland while simultaneously using diplomatic pressure to keep Breland out of the war. In addition Aundair agents will bribe/provoke Darguun into aggressive raids into Breland while a similar attempt will be made with Droaam , but I intend player actions to reveal that plot and, depending on their actions they might even swing Droaam into an alliance with Breland. (In my setting the Hags of Droaam are incredibly pragmatic). Either way, throw in New Cyre troubles and Breland won’t be in a strong position to go to war and will initially desperately try to get the warring nations back around a peace table. Zilargo, as the Switzerland of Eberron, will do nothing but make huge wartime profits. Business as usual for them. I don’t like Gnomes and I don’t like bankers :). The Mrorholds will rally to Karnnaths defense with a remarkable large and well provisioned army (which will make the more paranoid generals in Karrnath wonder just what their good allies were planning before the war broke out and changed everyone’s weekend plans). Talenta and Valenar raiders will continue to raid any targets they think they can get away with, but will have a relatively small impact in the war. After initial success Thrane and Aundair will get bogged down as any dreams of quick conquest get drowned by the reality of an endless war of attrition. Depending on player actions I think Brelands first military action will be to invade Darguun. In my setting they have been needling Breland with slaving raids (always by “rogue ex-military units”) for years. Nothing major but enough that the Breland army has the full support of the people, parliament and the King. I’m afraid the goblins are in for a bad time in Eberron. So what do people think?
OctaviusIII 05-23-07, 01:26 AM	I think elbrop's war is interesting, but it doesn't quite work with the popular sentiment of Aundair at the time. Besides, two countries launching attacks in opposite directions at the same time seems more than a little suspicious. Still, I think it could work with the backstabbing of Thrane by Aundair. Basically, the Thaliost Pact was a red herring on Aundair's part. Fairhaven thought that a quick incursion into the Eldeen Reaches (perhaps only for the plains, leaving the forest to Oalian and his druids) could quickly be made. Now, Fairhaven would have been planning a landgrab since before the signing of the Pact but simply told Thrane about invading. Thrane, feeling more secure, would invade Karrnath. By the time Aundair asks for peace from the Reaches, Thrane and Karrnath would be embroiled in a much deeper war. Four months after the Reaches peace treaty, Aundair would invade Thrane and recapture Thaliost. Now looking at a two-front war, Flamekeep would sue for peace and end the war with Aundair. Or at least, that's the plan being cooked up in the towers of Fairhold. Keeping Breland unbalanced would still be in Aundairian-Thranish interests for the reasons you cited. What will actually happen is the Reaches will put up much more of a fight than expected and Aundair will end up slogging through. Karrnath will get unexpected help from the Mror Holds, and both nations will find themselves with more than they can handle. In Aundair at least the war will quickly become politically untenable. The Chronicles will soon be asking why they invaded the Reaches when Thaliost was there for the taking, lambasting Queen Aurala and her military advisers for the debacle. Since Aundair is dependent upon its landed nobles for military support, they may soon start withdrawing their troops from the fight. Lastly, a pragmatic Droaam may want peace with Breland but it sure doesn't go the other way. An alliance between the two wouldn't happen. The Sisters of Sora Kell may be pragmatic, but their best bet is to surround Breland by alliances with Darguun and the Reaches. They have more domestic than foreign issues to worry about, though.