Aerenal Questions! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aerenal Questions! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Highschool_Magic
03-21-07, 06:23 PM Hello! I have a few questions about Aerenal!

1. Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild?

2. Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest?

3. The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"?

Thanks!

_Highschool_Magic_
Edymnion
03-21-07, 07:29 PM 1. Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild?Not really, no. In Eberron, you can basically toss out all of the Races Of books when it comes to flavor text (and I do mean ALL of the Races books). Eberron rewrites pretty much everything about them. Almost all Aerenal elves are going to be traditionalists that practice long honed arts, trying to perfect them to the point they may one day have the chance of being considered to become a Deathless.
2. Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest?I believe it is a jungle.
3. The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"?No, and in my opinion, they shouldn't have published a Create Deathless spell in the first place. Its a rare honor, essentially the reward of a lifetime (literally), not something any schmuck with a few class levels can cast.
Nundahl
03-22-07, 01:34 PM I'm not contributing much here, but I'd like to toss in a few cents for reaffirmation.

I agree completely with Edy (although I like my Races of Eberron books for a few small reasons, but that's a topic for another thread). The Races books don't apply to Eberron with exceptions where the DM allows/states/what have you.

I'm going with jungle as well, I don't know that its explicitly stated or not stated, but it fits the feel. Also, the native baboons/mandrills would likely not be found in deciduous forests.

And a final echo of Edy's post; Why is it so easy to create Deathless? I'm working on a remake of the Deathless Domain to houserule for my game where the 9th level ability is Create Deathless. This is a bit more liberal than the viewpoint of some who think players just shouldn't get the chance, but I feel it is important to have some mechanic for the Deathless.

I have all kinds of issues with how the Aerenal are handled though, to be honest its one of my favorite flavor pieces and most hated crunchy parts of Eberron. Why does the Deathless Domain grant the ability to control your revered, beloved ancestors AGAINST THEIR WILL for just one such example.

Well, I always seem to rant on much more than I should, so I'll leave it at that.

-Nundahl
Edymnion
03-22-07, 09:24 PM This is a bit more liberal than the viewpoint of some who think players just shouldn't get the chance, but I feel it is important to have some mechanic for the Deathless.See, I'm of the opinion that you only give stats to things you intend to give to the players for them to use. If you need somebody to turn into a deathless for the story, you just do it. Only reason to give something stats is if you want the players to kill it, the only reason you give something mechanics is if you want the players to use it.
Darth Syntax
03-22-07, 09:30 PM I agree with Edy here. Heck, I don't allow the creation of Deathless anywhere but Irian manifest zones, and it is a long, laborious process. It takes well over a month to create a proper Undying and the rituals are very closely guarded. It's more akin to the ancient Egyptian mummification process than anything else, including the need for many participants.

The Deathless of Aerenal are bound to their manifest zone, if they stray from it, they begin to weaken and will eventually fail altogether. If a councilor wished to travel abroad, they would have to be magically protected; placed in a kind of chamber with large numbers of Irian crystals and the like. Rather like the Navigators in the David Lynch version of Dune. Granted the 'gas' is going to be composed of pulverized Irian crystals so its more likely of bluish white color.
PoeticJustice
03-22-07, 09:38 PM No, and in my opinion, they shouldn't have published a Create Deathless spell in the first place. Its a rare honor, essentially the reward of a lifetime (literally), not something any schmuck with a few class levels can cast.

This is a slight overstatement. Aside from adventuring clerics, you'd need to be 7th(?) level in order to cast create deathless, meaning that you'd need to go to small city in order to have a 33% chance of encountering a cleric of such power.

Although it's not officially stated, I believe Hellcow has come out and said there's something about the Irian manifest zones that allow the spell to function. Elsewhere they are impeded or worse.
Hellcow
03-22-07, 10:37 PM Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild?
Personally, I would expect the architecture of Aerenal to largely reflect the look and feel shown on page 71 of the ECS. What makes Shae Mordai unusual is that it's completely built from stone; however, I see no reason to assume that the basic architectural style is atypical, beyond the choice of materials. Most Aereni buildings are built from densewood, but note that it's densewood - wood with the durability of stone - not livewood. They don't build their houses IN trees, or anything like that. Shae Cairdal is a walled fortress with buildings spread out around the central keep.

Page 218 of the ECS also calls out the extensive presence of densewood and stone monuments throughout most cities and estates.

Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest?
Jungle.

The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"?
Survive for hundreds of years as a deathless. Most councilors remain with their lines or in lower positions within Shae Mordai for centuries before ascending to the Undying Court, and personally I think the powers of the higher councilors are gained over time.

With that said, I would have prefered not to place the Deathless domain in the hands of PCs. The Undying are supported both by the powerful Irian manifest zones of Aerenal and by the devotion of the Aereni people; without these two things (or a similar source of positive energy, should you want to have another culture with deathless of its own) deathless will quickly fade. As such, in my opinion, the ritual to create deathless should be a significant and involved process - and even if a 7th level cleric can prepare the spell, they may not be able to cast it. The Undying Court are one of the few known divine entities (albeit in gestalt form) in Eberron, and beyond the spirit being willing to come back, I think this is a case where the Court itself may choose to deny deathless status to a being they consider unworthy.

(And I like Darth Syntax's ideas about traveling deathless.)

Why does the Deathless Domain grant the ability to control your revered, beloved ancestors AGAINST THEIR WILL for just one such example.
In my opinion - and ONLY my opinion, not official in any way - I see these spells as being, essentially, about the cleric's status as an agent of the Court among the living. It's like a general seeing a couple of privates and saying "You! I have an emergency! Fall in!" The proper use of these spells is for a situation where the Undying MIGHT do what the cleric whats if he took the time to describe the situation, but there simply isn't time to explain.

As long as the cleric is acting in the interests of the Court, all is good. If, on the other hand, the cleric uses the spell to advance his own personal interests or to demean the Undying, then I would strip his powers until he performs atonement.

Given that this options reduce the use of the domain considerably, I would consider dropping it. Faiths of Eberron adds the Fate and Planning domains to the Undying Court; if I removed the Deathless domain, I might replace it with Community.
goblin_pride
03-23-07, 06:14 PM (And I like Darth Syntax's ideas about traveling deathless.)

Yeah, I'm nicking that one too, Darth.
Darth Syntax
03-23-07, 07:04 PM By all means, please do. I just thought the image of an undying councilor in a crystalline 'tank' full of blue-white gas was too good to pass up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Highschool_Magic 03-21-07, 06:23 PM	Hello! I have a few questions about Aerenal! 1. Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild? 2. Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest? 3. The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"? Thanks! _Highschool_Magic_
Edymnion 03-21-07, 07:29 PM	1. Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild?Not really, no. In Eberron, you can basically toss out all of the Races Of books when it comes to flavor text (and I do mean ALL of the Races books). Eberron rewrites pretty much everything about them. Almost all Aerenal elves are going to be traditionalists that practice long honed arts, trying to perfect them to the point they may one day have the chance of being considered to become a Deathless. 2. Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest?I believe it is a jungle. 3. The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"?No, and in my opinion, they shouldn't have published a Create Deathless spell in the first place. Its a rare honor, essentially the reward of a lifetime (literally), not something any schmuck with a few class levels can cast.
Nundahl 03-22-07, 01:34 PM	I'm not contributing much here, but I'd like to toss in a few cents for reaffirmation. I agree completely with Edy (although I like my Races of Eberron books for a few small reasons, but that's a topic for another thread). The Races books don't apply to Eberron with exceptions where the DM allows/states/what have you. I'm going with jungle as well, I don't know that its explicitly stated or not stated, but it fits the feel. Also, the native baboons/mandrills would likely not be found in deciduous forests. And a final echo of Edy's post; Why is it so easy to create Deathless? I'm working on a remake of the Deathless Domain to houserule for my game where the 9th level ability is Create Deathless. This is a bit more liberal than the viewpoint of some who think players just shouldn't get the chance, but I feel it is important to have some mechanic for the Deathless. I have all kinds of issues with how the Aerenal are handled though, to be honest its one of my favorite flavor pieces and most hated crunchy parts of Eberron. Why does the Deathless Domain grant the ability to control your revered, beloved ancestors AGAINST THEIR WILL for just one such example. Well, I always seem to rant on much more than I should, so I'll leave it at that. -Nundahl
Edymnion 03-22-07, 09:24 PM	This is a bit more liberal than the viewpoint of some who think players just shouldn't get the chance, but I feel it is important to have some mechanic for the Deathless.See, I'm of the opinion that you only give stats to things you intend to give to the players for them to use. If you need somebody to turn into a deathless for the story, you just do it. Only reason to give something stats is if you want the players to kill it, the only reason you give something mechanics is if you want the players to use it.
Darth Syntax 03-22-07, 09:30 PM	I agree with Edy here. Heck, I don't allow the creation of Deathless anywhere but Irian manifest zones, and it is a long, laborious process. It takes well over a month to create a proper Undying and the rituals are very closely guarded. It's more akin to the ancient Egyptian mummification process than anything else, including the need for many participants. The Deathless of Aerenal are bound to their manifest zone, if they stray from it, they begin to weaken and will eventually fail altogether. If a councilor wished to travel abroad, they would have to be magically protected; placed in a kind of chamber with large numbers of Irian crystals and the like. Rather like the Navigators in the David Lynch version of Dune. Granted the 'gas' is going to be composed of pulverized Irian crystals so its more likely of bluish white color.
PoeticJustice 03-22-07, 09:38 PM	No, and in my opinion, they shouldn't have published a Create Deathless spell in the first place. Its a rare honor, essentially the reward of a lifetime (literally), not something any schmuck with a few class levels can cast. This is a slight overstatement. Aside from adventuring clerics, you'd need to be 7th(?) level in order to cast create deathless, meaning that you'd need to go to small city in order to have a 33% chance of encountering a cleric of such power. Although it's not officially stated, I believe Hellcow has come out and said there's something about the Irian manifest zones that allow the spell to function. Elsewhere they are impeded or worse.
Hellcow 03-22-07, 10:37 PM	Besides the City of the Dead, are the houses like the "typical elf house" Such as are described in Races of the Wild? Personally, I would expect the architecture of Aerenal to largely reflect the look and feel shown on page 71 of the ECS. What makes Shae Mordai unusual is that it's completely built from stone; however, I see no reason to assume that the basic architectural style is atypical, beyond the choice of materials. Most Aereni buildings are built from densewood, but note that it's densewood - wood with the durability of stone - not livewood. They don't build their houses IN trees, or anything like that. Shae Cairdal is a walled fortress with buildings spread out around the central keep. Page 218 of the ECS also calls out the extensive presence of densewood and stone monuments throughout most cities and estates. Is Aerenal a jungle or a forest? Jungle. The spell Create Deathless gives the subject the deathless type. It doesnt give a the subject the powers of a Deathless Councilor, Undying Solider, ect... Is their a spell or some piece of text that tells us about how one would become a "uber-deathless"? Survive for hundreds of years as a deathless. Most councilors remain with their lines or in lower positions within Shae Mordai for centuries before ascending to the Undying Court, and personally I think the powers of the higher councilors are gained over time. With that said, I would have prefered not to place the Deathless domain in the hands of PCs. The Undying are supported both by the powerful Irian manifest zones of Aerenal and by the devotion of the Aereni people; without these two things (or a similar source of positive energy, should you want to have another culture with deathless of its own) deathless will quickly fade. As such, in my opinion, the ritual to create deathless should be a significant and involved process - and even if a 7th level cleric can prepare the spell, they may not be able to cast it. The Undying Court are one of the few known divine entities (albeit in gestalt form) in Eberron, and beyond the spirit being willing to come back, I think this is a case where the Court itself may choose to deny deathless status to a being they consider unworthy. (And I like Darth Syntax's ideas about traveling deathless.) Why does the Deathless Domain grant the ability to control your revered, beloved ancestors AGAINST THEIR WILL for just one such example. In my opinion - and ONLY my opinion, not official in any way - I see these spells as being, essentially, about the cleric's status as an agent of the Court among the living. It's like a general seeing a couple of privates and saying "You! I have an emergency! Fall in!" The proper use of these spells is for a situation where the Undying MIGHT do what the cleric whats if he took the time to describe the situation, but there simply isn't time to explain. As long as the cleric is acting in the interests of the Court, all is good. If, on the other hand, the cleric uses the spell to advance his own personal interests or to demean the Undying, then I would strip his powers until he performs atonement. Given that this options reduce the use of the domain considerably, I would consider dropping it. Faiths of Eberron adds the Fate and Planning domains to the Undying Court; if I removed the Deathless domain, I might replace it with Community.
goblin_pride 03-23-07, 06:14 PM	(And I like Darth Syntax's ideas about traveling deathless.) Yeah, I'm nicking that one too, Darth.
Darth Syntax 03-23-07, 07:04 PM	By all means, please do. I just thought the image of an undying councilor in a crystalline 'tank' full of blue-white gas was too good to pass up.