Bridges Across Sharn Quarters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bridges Across Sharn Quarters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nimrud
02-26-07, 11:33 PM For the Central Plateau, Menthis Plateau and Northedge not to be cut off from the rest of Sharn, I imagine there must be bridges across the extremely wide spaces between these three quarters and Dura and Tavick's Landing.

Unfortunately, this is not discussed at all in the Sharn sourcebook, much less mapped. Has anyone worked out which districts of these quarters are connected by bridge?

I was thinking that it would be logical for the quarters to be connected from garrison district to garrison district, but a quick survey of the Sharn map (such as it is) quickly dispelled that notion. The garrison districts do not face each other and are on different levels.

Any thoughts?
korcheck
02-26-07, 11:41 PM I and my group have left any sort of connection to these areas out. these are high society towers and we felt that they would be more restricted so instead there are only 2 ways for commoners to really get to them:
1. walk through the cogs.
2. take a flying taxi.
it helps to keep an air of aloofness to them and at the same time keeps the roughians out.
Nimrud
02-26-07, 11:56 PM Except that no matter how rich you are, you still need fairly bulky stuff transported to you, e.g. food, furniture, etc. There are also significant trades and services in these districts. Major mass entertainment districts are also found in Menthis Plateau so large numbers of people will be travelling to and from there. Central Plateau also holds important government offices, as well as all dragonmarked enclaves, so again this implies a lot of traffic.
Roger Nicholls
02-27-07, 12:26 AM It would make sense that there are bridges there. I imagine they would be akin to servant routes or loading bays (in a modern context) where certain people and products can travel through to serve those who live there etc.

Probably guarded at all times and right papers etc must be in order to access them.

Just my 2cp worth.
Nimrud
02-27-07, 01:46 AM It would make sense that there are bridges there. I imagine they would be akin to servant routes or loading bays (in a modern context) where certain people and products can travel through to serve those who live there etc.

Probably guarded at all times and right papers etc must be in order to access them.

Just my 2cp worth.
I think so too. It's just I don't know where to place them. I think there should not be too many of them as they are large-scale construction works, much like major suspension bridges. I'm thinking that there should be at least the following bridge connections:

Tavick's Landing (above Black Arch district) = Menthis
Menthis = Central
Dura = Central
Central = Northedge
Dura = Menthis
Dura = Northedge

Most of these bridges will be at the level of the Middle Wards.

There should not be a Tavick's = Northedge due to the description of the Black Arch district, which states that all non-magic/flight traffic (from the road and lightning rail entry points at Wroann's Gate and Terminus, I'm assuming) to upper levels must pass through the garrison district of Black Arch.
goblin_pride
02-27-07, 02:17 AM Except that no matter how rich you are, you still need fairly bulky stuff transported to you, e.g. food, furniture, etc. There are also significant trades and services in these districts. Major mass entertainment districts are also found in Menthis Plateau so large numbers of people will be travelling to and from there. Central Plateau also holds important government offices, as well as all dragonmarked enclaves, so again this implies a lot of traffic.

Just add a couple skycoaches intended for carrying bulk cargoes. Wider than passenger carriers, they could look alot like a wagon, minus the wheels and horses, obviously.
Nimrud
02-27-07, 03:12 AM Just add a couple skycoaches intended for carrying bulk cargoes. Wider than passenger carriers, they could look alot like a wagon, minus the wheels and horses, obviously.
That's one solution, and I think skycoaches probably evolved as a result of the need to maximise building area in the middle plateaus and the inconvenience of ground transport in reaching them. I also agree with the idea that there are skycoaches of varying sizes, including those designed to carry bulk cargo.

Still, if you look at cities with waterways separating significant population centres, you would find that even with the best ferry transport systems, it still makes sense to build bridges.

My question is: where would you locate the bridges? Which districts of Sharn will be linked?

Given that it rains so often and so much in Sharn, and the apparent lack of drainage from the chasms between the Dura and the middle plateaus, would you expect some sort of lake forming in that space? That would explain why there is no sign of building there, not even shantytowns like those in the caves by the side of the cliffs, as you might otherwise expect. If it is filled with water, how high would the water reach, and would there be a possibility of water transport as well?
Sereno
02-27-07, 09:54 AM My question is: where would you locate the bridges? Which districts of Sharn will be linked?

From Keith Baker, himself:

This is, in fact, the aforementioned issue I was thinking of tucking into a Dragonshard. As always, until such time as it does actually appear in a Dragonshard or other official publication, this is not official; it's possible that I will talk to James tomorrow and discover that he had something else in mind. However, for now, here's a list of some of the major bridges connecting the plateaus.

The Triangle
(These are three different sets of bridges, but the area is generally refered to as the Triangle -- so you have the Lower Triangle, Middle Triangle, etc.)
Terminus (LTL) to Boldrei's Hearth (LC)
Terminus (LTL) to North Market (LNE)
Boldrei's Hearth (LC) to North Market (LNE)

Tavick's Market (MTL) to Sovereign Towers (MC)
Tavick's Market (MTL) to Holdfast (MNE)
Sovereign Towers (MC) to Holdfast (MNE)

Silvergate (UTL) to Koran-Thiven (UC)
Silvergate (UTL) to Crystal Bridge (UNE)
Koran'Thiven (UC) to Crystal Bridge (UNE)

Center Bridge
Black Arch (LTL) to Center Bridge (LM)
Center Bridge (LM) to Granite Halls (LC)

Little Barrington (MTL) to Everbright (MM)
Everbright (MM) to Dragon Towers (MC)

Ocean View (UTL) to University (UM)
University (UM) to Highest Towers (UC)

Bridge of Lights
Dragoneyes (LTL) to Firelight (LM)
Torchlight (LNE) to Olladra's Kitchen (LC)

Cassan Bridge
Cassan Bridge (MM) to Kenton (MTL)

Griffon's Bridge
Daggerwatch (UD) to Highest Towers (UC)

Horizontal Lifts
These are similar to the magical lifts that travel up the towers, but move back and forth horizontally; essentially they are large skycoaches that operate on a fixed path. These can be shut down by any of the watch commanders or the Knight-Commander of the Citadel, allowing Central Plateau to be isolated from Dura.
Dava Gate (MC) to The Bazaar (MD)
Tradefair (MC) to Hareth's Folly (MD)
Deniyas (UM) to Twelve Pillars (UTL)
Clifftop (UD) to Shae Lias (UNE)
Crystal Bridge (UNE) to Pinnacle (UTL)
Korranath (UC) to Redstone (UD)

Given that it rains so often and so much in Sharn, and the apparent lack of drainage from the chasms between the Dura and the middle plateaus, would you expect some sort of lake forming in that space? That would explain why there is no sign of building there, not even shantytowns like those in the caves by the side of the cliffs, as you might otherwise expect. If it is filled with water, how high would the water reach, and would there be a possibility of water transport as well?

I thought those chasms eventually led down to the lava lake deep beneath the plateaus, the one that the Cogs derives it's heat from....
Nimrud
02-27-07, 11:16 AM Thank you Sereno! That's really good info!

Well, so much for the Black Arch being the gateway to the upper levels. Never really made sense anyway.

I don't think the chasms are open all the way down to the lava pools below. If you look at the map captioned "The Vertical City" on page 11 of the Sharn sourcebook, it looks like the bottom of the chasm is solid and forms the ceiling of the Cogs. Then there is another layer which forms the floor of the Cogs and the ceiling of the lava pools. The Cogs are also described as "undercity warrens" and are located "far below the forgotten ruins of the Depths". Again this clearly implies that the Cogs are not open to the skies but buried beneath ground.

I also don't think the bottom of the chasm is formed of porous material such as limestone, since it has to support mile-high towers of stone, manifest zone notwithstanding.
Sereno
02-27-07, 01:38 PM I don't think the chasms are open all the way down to the lava pools below.

Not along the whole length, for sure ... but it would be very unusual geology if there were NO passages that eventually led down to the lava pools. At the bare minimum, there should be some sort of lava tubes....

If you look at the map captioned "The Vertical City" on page 11 of the Sharn sourcebook, it looks like the bottom of the chasm is solid and forms the ceiling of the Cogs. Then there is another layer which forms the floor of the Cogs and the ceiling of the lava pools. The Cogs are also described as "undercity warrens" and are located "far below the forgotten ruins of the Depths". Again this clearly implies that the Cogs are not open to the skies but buried beneath ground.

Yeah, from that picture, you're right about the placement of the chasms in reference to the lava, but you could still have passages and channels not shown to scale on that map.

also don't think the bottom of the chasm is formed of porous material such as limestone, since it has to support mile-high towers of stone, manifest zone notwithstanding.

Considering all the magic associated with the manifest zone, I don't really have a problem with channels or porosity of materials. I'll just take it that the cities designers (the game designers; Keith, et al) didn't intend for Sharn to have water in the space between plateaus and that means there must be some place for the water to go.

Looking at the Sharn overview map (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_maps/M1SharnOverview_400.jpg), maybe the water just flows into those two northern-facing chasms and percolates down to meet up with the Dagger river. That works for me.... :)
goblin_pride
02-27-07, 01:55 PM Considering all the magic associated with the manifest zone, I don't really have a problem with channels or porosity of materials. I'll just take it that the cities designers (the game designers; Keith, et al) didn't intend for Sharn to have water in the space between plateaus and that means there must be some place for the water to go.

I would imagine that the farther down you go in the city, the more likely the run-off would be like a flash flood. Water pouring off the rooftops of the lower wards could easily wash small children and unattended objects into the river with some force.
Sereno
02-27-07, 02:41 PM I would imagine that the farther down you go in the city, the more likely the run-off would be like a flash flood. Water pouring off the rooftops of the lower wards could easily wash small children and unattended objects into the river with some force.

Absolutely ... unless Bags of Devouring are being used to handle ... overflow ... there's going to be a LOT of force in Sharn's water systems. However, there's a certain distance over which if water just falls straight it will eventually turn into mist.

There's a huge waterfall (Angel Falls, 3,212ft) in S. America that's so high, most of the water doesn't actually land in the pool below ... parts of Sharn could be like that, too.
Nimrud
02-27-07, 08:40 PM That is a really cool effect, that the lower wards and the chasm are usually shrouded in mist. The air in the lower wards would be damp and mouldy. You would find lots of fungus and mould everywhere.

One would also expect to find reservoirs and water tanks at various levels, given it would be virtually impossible to pump water a mile upwards, and if your water came from one mile up, the water pressure would be immense. I hate to think what would happen if a mile high sewerage pipe burst!
Amaril
02-27-07, 08:48 PM Remember we're talking about a city that resides in a manifest zone of Syrania.
Nimrud
02-28-07, 04:41 AM Remember we're talking about a city that resides in a manifest zone of Syrania.
So what effects do you think the manifest zone should have on what we are discussing?
goblin_pride
02-28-07, 06:38 AM So what effects do you think the manifest zone should have on what we are discussing?

Relative falling distance for one. The light gravity of Syrania might make the water cascading from the upper wards seem to fall for thousands of feet even though the actual distance may only be a couple hundred. Because of the relative distance it might vaporize that much easier.

Another possible problem is the "clear, blue sky" effect. Syrania itself is described as being a cloudless blue sky, that means the rain that we have so much fun with might not even exist in Sharn. I call the rains of Sharn an odd side-effect of the crossing of the planes, the very way the skies are cloudless is that the clouds dissipate in rain that much more often because of the manifest zone.
Amaril
02-28-07, 06:42 AM goblin_pride hit the nail on the head. Alternatively, it might mean that only the lower wards and districts receive rainfall as it seems the manifest zone has more effect at higher altitudes.
Nimrud
02-28-07, 11:29 AM Relative falling distance for one. The light gravity of Syrania might make the water cascading from the upper wards seem to fall for thousands of feet even though the actual distance may only be a couple hundred. Because of the relative distance it might vaporize that much easier.

Another possible problem is the "clear, blue sky" effect. Syrania itself is described as being a cloudless blue sky, that means the rain that we have so much fun with might not even exist in Sharn. I call the rains of Sharn an odd side-effect of the crossing of the planes, the very way the skies are cloudless is that the clouds dissipate in rain that much more often because of the manifest zone.
I'm not sure I understand this. Can you elaborate?
Amaril
02-28-07, 11:56 AM Precipitation is the product of condensation building on particles in the air, which then become so saturated it falls from the sky. In some cases, water can turn into mist or break apart if it's duration of travel from it's position in the sky to the ground below is elongated or if atmospheric conditions allow the precipitation to evaporate before hitting the ground. Thus, water falling at a slower rate might turn into mist or evaporate well before it ever hits the floor. This type of precipitation is known as virga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virga).

An alternative concept might be droplets merely falling more slowly to create a stunning visual effect of rain appearing as droplets falling at the same rate as a leaf rather than the streaks of water we visually see in normal rain.

IIRC, the manifest zone connected to Syrania might allow for a cooler atmosphere in Sharn than outside of the manifest zone, which is warmer and more humid. If that's the case, then the cool air might allow for the water to stay in liquid form all the way to the ground. In fact, if that is the case, it might be cool enough to even create light hail.
Sereno
02-28-07, 12:32 PM However, keep in mind there's nothing in the ECS or the Sharn:COT sourcebooks to indicate that there's actually less gravity in Sharn.

There'd be a lot to change if the gravity was actually different; modified falling damage table, modified jump distances table, etc.

Eberron's gravity, it seems, is unaffected by the manifest zone. However the manifest zone does allow for flight-type spells that don't work anywhere else (like the flying buttresses or the skycoaches). Magic of this sort could certainly be used to "slow" the fall of water (and other waste) in pipes, drains and sewers. But, I doubt it rains "slower" in Sharn than anywhere else.

Mist shrouding the lower districts makes perfect sense and is quite noir (it's always raining somewhere in Sharn -- typically outside the PCs offices!).
Nimrud
02-28-07, 01:12 PM Like Sereno, I think I prefer the view that the manifest zone does not automatically change the natural effect of gravity in Sharn. Magical flight however can be enhanced, as per the Sharn sourcebook.

Magic sewerage pipes and water drains lowering the pressure of water by some form of magical levitation effect make sense. Still, I would imagine people living in lower wards would probably tend to stay away from open spaces.

Artificial drainage of the chasm would probably make sense, as stagnant water would tend to breed all manner of unpleasant diseases, especially since the chasm would be a convenient place to dump refuse. I would imagine that the goblin builders of the old Duur'shaarat would have bored drainage tunnels through the rock of the lower Dura and Tavick's Landing areas towards the Dagger River. While the Depths were sealed after the War of the Mark, these drainage tunnels would have been left intact. Parts of the Sewers may actually open into these drainage works.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nimrud 02-26-07, 11:33 PM	For the Central Plateau, Menthis Plateau and Northedge not to be cut off from the rest of Sharn, I imagine there must be bridges across the extremely wide spaces between these three quarters and Dura and Tavick's Landing. Unfortunately, this is not discussed at all in the Sharn sourcebook, much less mapped. Has anyone worked out which districts of these quarters are connected by bridge? I was thinking that it would be logical for the quarters to be connected from garrison district to garrison district, but a quick survey of the Sharn map (such as it is) quickly dispelled that notion. The garrison districts do not face each other and are on different levels. Any thoughts?
korcheck 02-26-07, 11:41 PM	I and my group have left any sort of connection to these areas out. these are high society towers and we felt that they would be more restricted so instead there are only 2 ways for commoners to really get to them: 1. walk through the cogs. 2. take a flying taxi. it helps to keep an air of aloofness to them and at the same time keeps the roughians out.
Nimrud 02-26-07, 11:56 PM	Except that no matter how rich you are, you still need fairly bulky stuff transported to you, e.g. food, furniture, etc. There are also significant trades and services in these districts. Major mass entertainment districts are also found in Menthis Plateau so large numbers of people will be travelling to and from there. Central Plateau also holds important government offices, as well as all dragonmarked enclaves, so again this implies a lot of traffic.
Roger Nicholls 02-27-07, 12:26 AM	It would make sense that there are bridges there. I imagine they would be akin to servant routes or loading bays (in a modern context) where certain people and products can travel through to serve those who live there etc. Probably guarded at all times and right papers etc must be in order to access them. Just my 2cp worth.
Nimrud 02-27-07, 01:46 AM	It would make sense that there are bridges there. I imagine they would be akin to servant routes or loading bays (in a modern context) where certain people and products can travel through to serve those who live there etc. Probably guarded at all times and right papers etc must be in order to access them. Just my 2cp worth. I think so too. It's just I don't know where to place them. I think there should not be too many of them as they are large-scale construction works, much like major suspension bridges. I'm thinking that there should be at least the following bridge connections: Tavick's Landing (above Black Arch district) = Menthis Menthis = Central Dura = Central Central = Northedge Dura = Menthis Dura = Northedge Most of these bridges will be at the level of the Middle Wards. There should not be a Tavick's = Northedge due to the description of the Black Arch district, which states that all non-magic/flight traffic (from the road and lightning rail entry points at Wroann's Gate and Terminus, I'm assuming) to upper levels must pass through the garrison district of Black Arch.
goblin_pride 02-27-07, 02:17 AM	Except that no matter how rich you are, you still need fairly bulky stuff transported to you, e.g. food, furniture, etc. There are also significant trades and services in these districts. Major mass entertainment districts are also found in Menthis Plateau so large numbers of people will be travelling to and from there. Central Plateau also holds important government offices, as well as all dragonmarked enclaves, so again this implies a lot of traffic. Just add a couple skycoaches intended for carrying bulk cargoes. Wider than passenger carriers, they could look alot like a wagon, minus the wheels and horses, obviously.
Nimrud 02-27-07, 03:12 AM	Just add a couple skycoaches intended for carrying bulk cargoes. Wider than passenger carriers, they could look alot like a wagon, minus the wheels and horses, obviously. That's one solution, and I think skycoaches probably evolved as a result of the need to maximise building area in the middle plateaus and the inconvenience of ground transport in reaching them. I also agree with the idea that there are skycoaches of varying sizes, including those designed to carry bulk cargo. Still, if you look at cities with waterways separating significant population centres, you would find that even with the best ferry transport systems, it still makes sense to build bridges. My question is: where would you locate the bridges? Which districts of Sharn will be linked? Given that it rains so often and so much in Sharn, and the apparent lack of drainage from the chasms between the Dura and the middle plateaus, would you expect some sort of lake forming in that space? That would explain why there is no sign of building there, not even shantytowns like those in the caves by the side of the cliffs, as you might otherwise expect. If it is filled with water, how high would the water reach, and would there be a possibility of water transport as well?
Sereno 02-27-07, 09:54 AM	My question is: where would you locate the bridges? Which districts of Sharn will be linked? From Keith Baker, himself: This is, in fact, the aforementioned issue I was thinking of tucking into a Dragonshard. As always, until such time as it does actually appear in a Dragonshard or other official publication, this is not official; it's possible that I will talk to James tomorrow and discover that he had something else in mind. However, for now, here's a list of some of the major bridges connecting the plateaus. The Triangle (These are three different sets of bridges, but the area is generally refered to as the Triangle -- so you have the Lower Triangle, Middle Triangle, etc.) Terminus (LTL) to Boldrei's Hearth (LC) Terminus (LTL) to North Market (LNE) Boldrei's Hearth (LC) to North Market (LNE) Tavick's Market (MTL) to Sovereign Towers (MC) Tavick's Market (MTL) to Holdfast (MNE) Sovereign Towers (MC) to Holdfast (MNE) Silvergate (UTL) to Koran-Thiven (UC) Silvergate (UTL) to Crystal Bridge (UNE) Koran'Thiven (UC) to Crystal Bridge (UNE) Center Bridge Black Arch (LTL) to Center Bridge (LM) Center Bridge (LM) to Granite Halls (LC) Little Barrington (MTL) to Everbright (MM) Everbright (MM) to Dragon Towers (MC) Ocean View (UTL) to University (UM) University (UM) to Highest Towers (UC) Bridge of Lights Dragoneyes (LTL) to Firelight (LM) Torchlight (LNE) to Olladra's Kitchen (LC) Cassan Bridge Cassan Bridge (MM) to Kenton (MTL) Griffon's Bridge Daggerwatch (UD) to Highest Towers (UC) Horizontal Lifts These are similar to the magical lifts that travel up the towers, but move back and forth horizontally; essentially they are large skycoaches that operate on a fixed path. These can be shut down by any of the watch commanders or the Knight-Commander of the Citadel, allowing Central Plateau to be isolated from Dura. Dava Gate (MC) to The Bazaar (MD) Tradefair (MC) to Hareth's Folly (MD) Deniyas (UM) to Twelve Pillars (UTL) Clifftop (UD) to Shae Lias (UNE) Crystal Bridge (UNE) to Pinnacle (UTL) Korranath (UC) to Redstone (UD) Given that it rains so often and so much in Sharn, and the apparent lack of drainage from the chasms between the Dura and the middle plateaus, would you expect some sort of lake forming in that space? That would explain why there is no sign of building there, not even shantytowns like those in the caves by the side of the cliffs, as you might otherwise expect. If it is filled with water, how high would the water reach, and would there be a possibility of water transport as well? I thought those chasms eventually led down to the lava lake deep beneath the plateaus, the one that the Cogs derives it's heat from....
Nimrud 02-27-07, 11:16 AM	Thank you Sereno! That's really good info! Well, so much for the Black Arch being the gateway to the upper levels. Never really made sense anyway. I don't think the chasms are open all the way down to the lava pools below. If you look at the map captioned "The Vertical City" on page 11 of the Sharn sourcebook, it looks like the bottom of the chasm is solid and forms the ceiling of the Cogs. Then there is another layer which forms the floor of the Cogs and the ceiling of the lava pools. The Cogs are also described as "undercity warrens" and are located "far below the forgotten ruins of the Depths". Again this clearly implies that the Cogs are not open to the skies but buried beneath ground. I also don't think the bottom of the chasm is formed of porous material such as limestone, since it has to support mile-high towers of stone, manifest zone notwithstanding.
Sereno 02-27-07, 01:38 PM	I don't think the chasms are open all the way down to the lava pools below. Not along the whole length, for sure ... but it would be very unusual geology if there were NO passages that eventually led down to the lava pools. At the bare minimum, there should be some sort of lava tubes.... If you look at the map captioned "The Vertical City" on page 11 of the Sharn sourcebook, it looks like the bottom of the chasm is solid and forms the ceiling of the Cogs. Then there is another layer which forms the floor of the Cogs and the ceiling of the lava pools. The Cogs are also described as "undercity warrens" and are located "far below the forgotten ruins of the Depths". Again this clearly implies that the Cogs are not open to the skies but buried beneath ground. Yeah, from that picture, you're right about the placement of the chasms in reference to the lava, but you could still have passages and channels not shown to scale on that map. also don't think the bottom of the chasm is formed of porous material such as limestone, since it has to support mile-high towers of stone, manifest zone notwithstanding. Considering all the magic associated with the manifest zone, I don't really have a problem with channels or porosity of materials. I'll just take it that the cities designers (the game designers; Keith, et al) didn't intend for Sharn to have water in the space between plateaus and that means there must be some place for the water to go. Looking at the Sharn overview map (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_maps/M1SharnOverview_400.jpg), maybe the water just flows into those two northern-facing chasms and percolates down to meet up with the Dagger river. That works for me.... :)
goblin_pride 02-27-07, 01:55 PM	Considering all the magic associated with the manifest zone, I don't really have a problem with channels or porosity of materials. I'll just take it that the cities designers (the game designers; Keith, et al) didn't intend for Sharn to have water in the space between plateaus and that means there must be some place for the water to go. I would imagine that the farther down you go in the city, the more likely the run-off would be like a flash flood. Water pouring off the rooftops of the lower wards could easily wash small children and unattended objects into the river with some force.
Sereno 02-27-07, 02:41 PM	I would imagine that the farther down you go in the city, the more likely the run-off would be like a flash flood. Water pouring off the rooftops of the lower wards could easily wash small children and unattended objects into the river with some force. Absolutely ... unless Bags of Devouring are being used to handle ... overflow ... there's going to be a LOT of force in Sharn's water systems. However, there's a certain distance over which if water just falls straight it will eventually turn into mist. There's a huge waterfall (Angel Falls, 3,212ft) in S. America that's so high, most of the water doesn't actually land in the pool below ... parts of Sharn could be like that, too.
Nimrud 02-27-07, 08:40 PM	That is a really cool effect, that the lower wards and the chasm are usually shrouded in mist. The air in the lower wards would be damp and mouldy. You would find lots of fungus and mould everywhere. One would also expect to find reservoirs and water tanks at various levels, given it would be virtually impossible to pump water a mile upwards, and if your water came from one mile up, the water pressure would be immense. I hate to think what would happen if a mile high sewerage pipe burst!
Amaril 02-27-07, 08:48 PM	Remember we're talking about a city that resides in a manifest zone of Syrania.
Nimrud 02-28-07, 04:41 AM	Remember we're talking about a city that resides in a manifest zone of Syrania. So what effects do you think the manifest zone should have on what we are discussing?
goblin_pride 02-28-07, 06:38 AM	So what effects do you think the manifest zone should have on what we are discussing? Relative falling distance for one. The light gravity of Syrania might make the water cascading from the upper wards seem to fall for thousands of feet even though the actual distance may only be a couple hundred. Because of the relative distance it might vaporize that much easier. Another possible problem is the "clear, blue sky" effect. Syrania itself is described as being a cloudless blue sky, that means the rain that we have so much fun with might not even exist in Sharn. I call the rains of Sharn an odd side-effect of the crossing of the planes, the very way the skies are cloudless is that the clouds dissipate in rain that much more often because of the manifest zone.
Amaril 02-28-07, 06:42 AM	goblin_pride hit the nail on the head. Alternatively, it might mean that only the lower wards and districts receive rainfall as it seems the manifest zone has more effect at higher altitudes.
Nimrud 02-28-07, 11:29 AM	Relative falling distance for one. The light gravity of Syrania might make the water cascading from the upper wards seem to fall for thousands of feet even though the actual distance may only be a couple hundred. Because of the relative distance it might vaporize that much easier. Another possible problem is the "clear, blue sky" effect. Syrania itself is described as being a cloudless blue sky, that means the rain that we have so much fun with might not even exist in Sharn. I call the rains of Sharn an odd side-effect of the crossing of the planes, the very way the skies are cloudless is that the clouds dissipate in rain that much more often because of the manifest zone. I'm not sure I understand this. Can you elaborate?
Amaril 02-28-07, 11:56 AM	Precipitation is the product of condensation building on particles in the air, which then become so saturated it falls from the sky. In some cases, water can turn into mist or break apart if it's duration of travel from it's position in the sky to the ground below is elongated or if atmospheric conditions allow the precipitation to evaporate before hitting the ground. Thus, water falling at a slower rate might turn into mist or evaporate well before it ever hits the floor. This type of precipitation is known as virga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virga). An alternative concept might be droplets merely falling more slowly to create a stunning visual effect of rain appearing as droplets falling at the same rate as a leaf rather than the streaks of water we visually see in normal rain. IIRC, the manifest zone connected to Syrania might allow for a cooler atmosphere in Sharn than outside of the manifest zone, which is warmer and more humid. If that's the case, then the cool air might allow for the water to stay in liquid form all the way to the ground. In fact, if that is the case, it might be cool enough to even create light hail.
Sereno 02-28-07, 12:32 PM	However, keep in mind there's nothing in the ECS or the Sharn:COT sourcebooks to indicate that there's actually less gravity in Sharn. There'd be a lot to change if the gravity was actually different; modified falling damage table, modified jump distances table, etc. Eberron's gravity, it seems, is unaffected by the manifest zone. However the manifest zone does allow for flight-type spells that don't work anywhere else (like the flying buttresses or the skycoaches). Magic of this sort could certainly be used to "slow" the fall of water (and other waste) in pipes, drains and sewers. But, I doubt it rains "slower" in Sharn than anywhere else. Mist shrouding the lower districts makes perfect sense and is quite noir (it's always raining somewhere in Sharn -- typically outside the PCs offices!).
Nimrud 02-28-07, 01:12 PM	Like Sereno, I think I prefer the view that the manifest zone does not automatically change the natural effect of gravity in Sharn. Magical flight however can be enhanced, as per the Sharn sourcebook. Magic sewerage pipes and water drains lowering the pressure of water by some form of magical levitation effect make sense. Still, I would imagine people living in lower wards would probably tend to stay away from open spaces. Artificial drainage of the chasm would probably make sense, as stagnant water would tend to breed all manner of unpleasant diseases, especially since the chasm would be a convenient place to dump refuse. I would imagine that the goblin builders of the old Duur'shaarat would have bored drainage tunnels through the rock of the lower Dura and Tavick's Landing areas towards the Dagger River. While the Depths were sealed after the War of the Mark, these drainage tunnels would have been left intact. Parts of the Sewers may actually open into these drainage works.