demons and devils [Archive] - Wizards Community

demons and devils [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
andrewknaut
08-27-07, 12:39 PM So I've been looking at demons and devils and trying to think of were they would come into the Eberron world. It doesn't really talk about them anywhere and I was curious how the hatred of demons against devils would act on the world of Eberron. If anyone has put them in their world in a cool or nifty fashion please tell me, thanks.
Alex_
08-27-07, 01:08 PM In Eberron, not all Demons and Devils (or other fiendish creatures) all come from the same place. There was a point in time where they were native to and ruled the material plane. They battled with Dragons and Coutals and were finally defeated, with the most powerful ones, known as the Rajahs, being sealed away in Khyber, and their lesser kind contained within Khyber and the aptly named Demon Wastes.

On the material plane (known as Eberron in the game), they largely plot to regain their former power. Many Cults of the Dragon Below are their pawns, and they try to get them to release them in return for power, blessings, etc. The Lords of Dust is a more organized and calculating group of fiends and their minions that schemes to take over Eberron again. The little ones might occasionally get out, but the big ones are there mostly so the DM can opt for the classic pulpy, "Dark evil of unrivaled power that has been sealed away is being freed by crazy cultists!" adventure.

Other fiendish creature can be found throughout the planes of Eberron. These beings are more about the nature of their plane than they are about other things. For instance, Nalfeshnee and Lemures are native to the plane of Dolurrh, where the dead go to rest. They're mostly concerned with matters of the dead. Babau, Detches, Retrievers, and other fiends are all native to Shavarath, a plane where they engage in endless battle with celestial beings.

These extra-planar fiends, are less interested in what goes on in other worlds, let alone the material plane. Just like most people and beings on Eberron, don't have much interest in going to other planes (except the Daelkyr and Quori and their allies, and these are special cases). The Demons and Devils that regularly threaten the world don't come from other planes, they come from the ground beneath your feet or just over the mountain.
N3palm
08-27-07, 01:15 PM Khyber holds most of the demons and devils (and other fiendisch scum), and the ones that roam free are in de Demon Wastes (hence the name). They even have their own organisation don't they, the Lords of Dust.
And of course anywhere the Earth (Eberron) could break open and unleash a couple of those bound servants of doooom.

[EDIT] Nevermind, Alex beat me to it with a more in depth explenation.. :D
Vharuck
08-27-07, 07:50 PM The above posters are correct, fiends (evil incarnate beings who need not be demons or devils, such as rakshasa and hags) are found primarily in Khyber, while extraplanar demons and devils are found on planes corresponding to their nature.

However, if you're looking for good ol' demons and devils bashing on one another, Shavarrath is your place. The demons, devils, and celestials wage war for eternity there.
Nolwelen
09-06-07, 07:53 AM Khyber holds most of the demons and devils (and other fiendisch scum), and the ones that roam free are in de Demon Wastes (hence the name). They even have their own organisation don't they, the Lords of Dust.
And of course anywhere the Earth (Eberron) could break open and unleash a couple of those bound servants of doooom.

[EDIT] Nevermind, Alex beat me to it with a more in depth explenation.. :D

Well I have to admit that I dont have all available official sources at my disposal to claim correctness, but I got a different impression from what is written in the EbCS on Page 158, The Demon Wastes entry; Page 241, The Gatekeepers entry; And Page 242, The Lords of Dust entry. According to this texts Khyber's creatures are the Rakshasas, Zakyas, Rajahs, Night Hags and I guess the other Hag subtypes among other fiends, but this doesnt include the traditional Demons or Devils. These outsiders are native to some of the outer planes of Eberron, but do not dwell in Khyber, the underworld of Eberron. The Daelkyr which inhabit Khyber got there with the "help" of the Gatekeeper druids, which drove them into the depths. The Daelkyr are like for instance the Succubi "extraplanar" outsiders. While the Zakya on the other hand are native outsiders.

Thus I guess Im pretty much in line with Alex and Vharuck.
SirPudding
09-06-07, 01:04 PM In my somewhat non-canon campaign the Tanari and Baatezu are sort of interplanar alliances. While Aminizu might come from Dolurh and Balors from Fernia they are both subjects in the Tanari empire. Bearded Devils on Shavarath might answer to an Erinyes in Mabar. (Yes my spelling sucks, Im too lazy to go check.) They spend much of their time fighting in Shavarath (Over what is a mystery). I always think there is much more going on in the planes than anyone on Eberron is aware of.
Nolwelen
09-06-07, 06:01 PM Well in that case we have 4 evil outsider factions in Eberron instead of only the two tradtional factions. Since as I see it the Lords of Dust, which include all native outsiders, and the Daelkyr led extraplanar outsiders from Xoriat dont get along all too well eather. I guess at the moment they cooperate since they share a common foe, but the Daelkyr laid claim to what was once the former domain of the Lords of Dust. I dont believe the Rajahs would be pleased if they had to "share" with just another faction what they suppose to be rightfully theirs. Thus we have the following factions the Tanar'ri, the Baatezu, the Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust. Do the Xoriat Demons count as a separate faction in this struggle? I find it quiet fascinating that the Daelkyr seem to be neither demons nor devils, since in their stats neither term Tanar'ri nor Baatezu gets mentioned. They are usually NE, apparently they are just "something else" in a very dangerous way.
mhacdebhandia
09-10-07, 04:57 PM According to this texts Khyber's creatures are the Rakshasas, Zakyas, Rajahs, Night Hags and I guess the other Hag subtypes among other fiends, but this doesnt include the traditional Demons or Devils. These outsiders are native to some of the outer planes of Eberron, but do not dwell in Khyber, the underworld of Eberron.
On the other hand, Keith has said that rakshasas et cetera are the weakest and most numerous of Khyber's children, but not the only kind of fiends to have inhabited Eberron (and Khyber) since the Age of Demons.

If you want to use native versions of the standard demons and devils, it's as easy as describing their appearance a little differently and saying they're in Khyber or the Demons Waste or wherever else you need them.

It's also true that Khyber is larger than the physical size of the planet Eberron would provide room for it to be; the depths of Khyber contain vast extradimensional spaces accessible only through planeshifting magic or via specific paths - so you might follow a long descending chain of caverns down until suddenly you emerge into Baphomet's twisting maze, with a sickly yellow moon shining down from a sky that can't possibly exist so far under the earth.

In these places, powerful unique fiends like Baphomet or Demogorgon might exist - weaker than the overlords bound by the sacrifice of the couatl, but remaining unbound and uninterested in releasing the rajahs, unlike the rakshasa Lords of Dust.

(They could also be found in Shavarath, commanding the demonic or diabolical armies, if you think they work better in that role.)
mhacdebhandia
09-10-07, 05:08 PM Thus we have the following factions the Tanar'ri, the Baatezu, the Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust.
Of course, as has already been mentioned on the thread, the tanar'ri and baatezu "factions" don't exist in Eberron as they do in the core rules.

For instance, succubi aren't part of the demonic armies of Shavarath, and ice devils (gelugons) aren't part of the diabolical armies.

Added to this is the fact that the wars of Shavarath are not connected to struggles or conflicts elsewhere in the cosmology of Eberron. The demons, the devils, and the archons of Shavarath are all but single-mindedly committed to their eternal war, and thus the problems of the ice devils of Risia don't mean anything to the pit fiends and horned devils of Shavarath.

In Eberron, the Lords of Dust is the major alliance of fiends, and most (but not all) members of the Lord of Dust are rakshasas. They seek to corrupt the peoples of Eberron and/or free their bound overlords.

Do the Xoriat Demons count as a separate faction in this struggle? I find it quiet fascinating that the Daelkyr seem to be neither demons nor devils, since in their stats neither term Tanar'ri nor Baatezu gets mentioned. They are usually NE, apparently they are just "something else" in a very dangerous way.
It has always been true, in every edition of Dungeons & Dragons, that there's a difference between evil outsiders and fiends. Accordingly, the daelkyr - and the quori - are not fiends: they are "just" evil outsiders.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
andrewknaut 08-27-07, 12:39 PM	So I've been looking at demons and devils and trying to think of were they would come into the Eberron world. It doesn't really talk about them anywhere and I was curious how the hatred of demons against devils would act on the world of Eberron. If anyone has put them in their world in a cool or nifty fashion please tell me, thanks.
Alex_ 08-27-07, 01:08 PM	In Eberron, not all Demons and Devils (or other fiendish creatures) all come from the same place. There was a point in time where they were native to and ruled the material plane. They battled with Dragons and Coutals and were finally defeated, with the most powerful ones, known as the Rajahs, being sealed away in Khyber, and their lesser kind contained within Khyber and the aptly named Demon Wastes. On the material plane (known as Eberron in the game), they largely plot to regain their former power. Many Cults of the Dragon Below are their pawns, and they try to get them to release them in return for power, blessings, etc. The Lords of Dust is a more organized and calculating group of fiends and their minions that schemes to take over Eberron again. The little ones might occasionally get out, but the big ones are there mostly so the DM can opt for the classic pulpy, "Dark evil of unrivaled power that has been sealed away is being freed by crazy cultists!" adventure. Other fiendish creature can be found throughout the planes of Eberron. These beings are more about the nature of their plane than they are about other things. For instance, Nalfeshnee and Lemures are native to the plane of Dolurrh, where the dead go to rest. They're mostly concerned with matters of the dead. Babau, Detches, Retrievers, and other fiends are all native to Shavarath, a plane where they engage in endless battle with celestial beings. These extra-planar fiends, are less interested in what goes on in other worlds, let alone the material plane. Just like most people and beings on Eberron, don't have much interest in going to other planes (except the Daelkyr and Quori and their allies, and these are special cases). The Demons and Devils that regularly threaten the world don't come from other planes, they come from the ground beneath your feet or just over the mountain.
N3palm 08-27-07, 01:15 PM	Khyber holds most of the demons and devils (and other fiendisch scum), and the ones that roam free are in de Demon Wastes (hence the name). They even have their own organisation don't they, the Lords of Dust. And of course anywhere the Earth (Eberron) could break open and unleash a couple of those bound servants of doooom. [EDIT] Nevermind, Alex beat me to it with a more in depth explenation.. :D
Vharuck 08-27-07, 07:50 PM	The above posters are correct, fiends (evil incarnate beings who need not be demons or devils, such as rakshasa and hags) are found primarily in Khyber, while extraplanar demons and devils are found on planes corresponding to their nature. However, if you're looking for good ol' demons and devils bashing on one another, Shavarrath is your place. The demons, devils, and celestials wage war for eternity there.
Nolwelen 09-06-07, 07:53 AM	Khyber holds most of the demons and devils (and other fiendisch scum), and the ones that roam free are in de Demon Wastes (hence the name). They even have their own organisation don't they, the Lords of Dust. And of course anywhere the Earth (Eberron) could break open and unleash a couple of those bound servants of doooom. [EDIT] Nevermind, Alex beat me to it with a more in depth explenation.. :D Well I have to admit that I dont have all available official sources at my disposal to claim correctness, but I got a different impression from what is written in the EbCS on Page 158, The Demon Wastes entry; Page 241, The Gatekeepers entry; And Page 242, The Lords of Dust entry. According to this texts Khyber's creatures are the Rakshasas, Zakyas, Rajahs, Night Hags and I guess the other Hag subtypes among other fiends, but this doesnt include the traditional Demons or Devils. These outsiders are native to some of the outer planes of Eberron, but do not dwell in Khyber, the underworld of Eberron. The Daelkyr which inhabit Khyber got there with the "help" of the Gatekeeper druids, which drove them into the depths. The Daelkyr are like for instance the Succubi "extraplanar" outsiders. While the Zakya on the other hand are native outsiders. Thus I guess Im pretty much in line with Alex and Vharuck.
SirPudding 09-06-07, 01:04 PM	In my somewhat non-canon campaign the Tanari and Baatezu are sort of interplanar alliances. While Aminizu might come from Dolurh and Balors from Fernia they are both subjects in the Tanari empire. Bearded Devils on Shavarath might answer to an Erinyes in Mabar. (Yes my spelling sucks, Im too lazy to go check.) They spend much of their time fighting in Shavarath (Over what is a mystery). I always think there is much more going on in the planes than anyone on Eberron is aware of.
Nolwelen 09-06-07, 06:01 PM	Well in that case we have 4 evil outsider factions in Eberron instead of only the two tradtional factions. Since as I see it the Lords of Dust, which include all native outsiders, and the Daelkyr led extraplanar outsiders from Xoriat dont get along all too well eather. I guess at the moment they cooperate since they share a common foe, but the Daelkyr laid claim to what was once the former domain of the Lords of Dust. I dont believe the Rajahs would be pleased if they had to "share" with just another faction what they suppose to be rightfully theirs. Thus we have the following factions the Tanar'ri, the Baatezu, the Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust. Do the Xoriat Demons count as a separate faction in this struggle? I find it quiet fascinating that the Daelkyr seem to be neither demons nor devils, since in their stats neither term Tanar'ri nor Baatezu gets mentioned. They are usually NE, apparently they are just "something else" in a very dangerous way.
mhacdebhandia 09-10-07, 04:57 PM	According to this texts Khyber's creatures are the Rakshasas, Zakyas, Rajahs, Night Hags and I guess the other Hag subtypes among other fiends, but this doesnt include the traditional Demons or Devils. These outsiders are native to some of the outer planes of Eberron, but do not dwell in Khyber, the underworld of Eberron. On the other hand, Keith has said that rakshasas et cetera are the weakest and most numerous of Khyber's children, but not the only kind of fiends to have inhabited Eberron (and Khyber) since the Age of Demons. If you want to use native versions of the standard demons and devils, it's as easy as describing their appearance a little differently and saying they're in Khyber or the Demons Waste or wherever else you need them. It's also true that Khyber is larger than the physical size of the planet Eberron would provide room for it to be; the depths of Khyber contain vast extradimensional spaces accessible only through planeshifting magic or via specific paths - so you might follow a long descending chain of caverns down until suddenly you emerge into Baphomet's twisting maze, with a sickly yellow moon shining down from a sky that can't possibly exist so far under the earth. In these places, powerful unique fiends like Baphomet or Demogorgon might exist - weaker than the overlords bound by the sacrifice of the couatl, but remaining unbound and uninterested in releasing the rajahs, unlike the rakshasa Lords of Dust. (They could also be found in Shavarath, commanding the demonic or diabolical armies, if you think they work better in that role.)
mhacdebhandia 09-10-07, 05:08 PM	Thus we have the following factions the Tanar'ri, the Baatezu, the Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust. Of course, as has already been mentioned on the thread, the tanar'ri and baatezu "factions" don't exist in Eberron as they do in the core rules. For instance, succubi aren't part of the demonic armies of Shavarath, and ice devils (gelugons) aren't part of the diabolical armies. Added to this is the fact that the wars of Shavarath are not connected to struggles or conflicts elsewhere in the cosmology of Eberron. The demons, the devils, and the archons of Shavarath are all but single-mindedly committed to their eternal war, and thus the problems of the ice devils of Risia don't mean anything to the pit fiends and horned devils of Shavarath. In Eberron, the Lords of Dust is the major alliance of fiends, and most (but not all) members of the Lord of Dust are rakshasas. They seek to corrupt the peoples of Eberron and/or free their bound overlords. Do the Xoriat Demons count as a separate faction in this struggle? I find it quiet fascinating that the Daelkyr seem to be neither demons nor devils, since in their stats neither term Tanar'ri nor Baatezu gets mentioned. They are usually NE, apparently they are just "something else" in a very dangerous way. It has always been true, in every edition of Dungeons & Dragons, that there's a difference between evil outsiders and fiends. Accordingly, the daelkyr - and the quori - are not fiends: they are "just" evil outsiders.