Dhakaani and druids [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dhakaani and druids [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Durskut
01-20-08, 12:57 PM my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal and was wondering what the boards think the Dhakaani think of druidism. I don't think they'd have a problem with druids, but would the goblinoids choose to become them?

this primarily has to do with rolling on the DMG table for highest level characters of each class and if i should even roll for druid (already took off adept and cleric of obvious reasons, and have decided to not count slaves in the table results).

i know there was a big thread a while back where the boards talked about many aspects of goblinoid society. thanks for the help/opinions.
Cuaglar
01-20-08, 02:36 PM If I recall correctly, in ancient history the Empire and the orc kingdoms of the west clashed frequently, and even today no love is lost between the orcs and the goblins. However, when the Daelkyr invaded, it was the orc Gatekeepers who stemmed the tide. I forget if the goblinoids and the orcs were allied at that time, but seeing how the Empire refused to call the Valaes Tairn to their aid, I don't see how they could accept the orcs they'd been fighting with since time out of mind.
Of course, I don't have the ECS at hand, this is just all I remember. I may be more incorrect than a map drawn by a gully dwarf.
Fabius Maximus
01-20-08, 06:51 PM I think that was mostly correct. The Dhakaani frown on divine casters. I don't know if they would recognize a druid as a divine caster, but I think the whole concept of the 'Powers of Nature' would go over the heads of most of them. They simply don't understand what would lead someone to put his faith into Nature and what he'd expect to get out of it (besides magical power).

A goblinoid druid would be an odditiy, but not impossible. I bet there are some among the Gatekeepers.
Alex_
01-20-08, 09:34 PM my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal and was wondering what the boards think the Dhakaani think of druidism. I don't think they'd have a problem with druids, but would the goblinoids choose to become them?

The Dhakaani simply have no history of Divine spellcasting. As Cuaglar put it (very well) I doubt they would follow the path of the Orcs- one of their greatest rivals. The Dhakaani in general are very isolationist and supremacist in attitude.

i know there was a big thread a while back where the boards talked about many aspects of goblinoid society. thanks for the help/opinions.

It should be noted here that Dhakaani are not the whole of Goblinoid society. They are merely the last remnants of the long lost empire. The rest of the Goblins descended into a relatively primitive lifestyle, and forgot many of the old ways. They pretty much became the dirty barbaric Goblins mot people are familiar with today. The ones in the back woods probably do have druids and shamans.

Then there's Harruc, and his attempt to emulate the old Kingdom of Galifar. He's basically trying to get the once scattered and disjointed Goblinoid tribes and clans to join back up.
Smug
01-21-08, 02:27 PM Setting aside the direct opposition, to me the key is that the druidic traditions of the orcs are about living as one with nature... while the Dhakaani value order and discipline. The Dhakaani empire was the epitome of civilization at the time - and the orcs were seen as savages. I just can't see the Dhakaani welcoming these barbaric traditions into their own cities.

With that said, I did take part in an adventure run by Hellcow himself in which the heroes were Kech Volaar soldiers sent to recover a artifiact that had been created by Dhakaani dirge singers and Gatekeeper druids back in the war. But this was clearly presented as an unusual thing - an "enemy of my enemy" event that had occured at the climax of the cataclysmic war, and on the fringes of the old empire - and there certainly weren't any druids among the Kech Volaar strike force.
Smug
01-21-08, 02:38 PM my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal... this primarily has to do with rolling on the DMG table for highest level characters of each class...
Personally, I would throw out the DMG table and simply make the hard decisions yourself. Dhakaani society simply isn't supposed to reflect human society. If you check the Dhakaani Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040816a), the typical hobgoblin solider isn't a 1st level warrior as you'd get by the DMG demographics, but rather a 2nd-level fighter. Aside from the role of bards, "many" hobgoblin females are experts; it's up to you to decide if this "many" is more than the DMG would indicate, but among the Kech Volaar - the Dhakaani who value knowledge - I could see a chunk of the 95% normally assigned as commoners being experts with Knowledge skills, languages, and other things that don't help their combat abilities but reflect the value their culture places on the acquisition and preservation of knowledge.

So you can go with the DMG table, but that's not going to give you an army based on fighters; you'll end up with more warriors than fighters, more 1st level fighters than 2nd, and so on. I'd simply make Volaar Draal a unique city and set those numbers accordingly.
Fenevall
01-22-08, 12:17 AM If I remember correctly, Dhakaani magical tradition was historically limited to bards. They did not practice divine magic at all. Druidism wasn't even introduced to the continent of Khorvaire until a dragon taught it to the orcs during the Daelkyr invasion. At this point, the Dhakaani Empire was in the midst of being destroyed. This does not mean that some goblinoids have not picked up other traditions in the many centuries since then, though. Divine casting would still be rare, I think, because Dhakaani are so big on tradition. In fact, Faiths of Eberron states that a small number of goblinoids have become interested in the Gatekeeper tradition and that a few small bands of "hunters" patrol in Darguun. So I would think that they would still be very rare, but could exist.
Smug
01-22-08, 12:51 AM Druidism wasn't even introduced to the continent of Khorvaire until a dragon taught it to the orcs during the Daelkyr invasion.
Actually, Vvaraak came to the orcs 7,000 years before the Daelkyr invasion (ECS pages 224, 241). Page 241 notes that it's uncertain whether or not the Daelkyr invasion was the threat Vvaraak was concerned about.

Divine casting would still be rare, I think, because Dhakaani are so big on tradition. In fact, Faiths of Eberron states that a small number of goblinoids have become interested in the Gatekeeper tradition and that a few small bands of "hunters" patrol in Darguun.
I think Alex_ made the key point here. There's a big difference between "goblins" and "Dhakaani". Unless FoE specifically said that these new goblin druids are Dhakaani, I'd assume that they were Ghaal'dar. Following the fall of the empire, the Ghaal'dar developed the faith of the Sixteen Gods. It's not hard to imagine some among them embracing the druidic traditions. But the Heirs of Dhakaan have held onto the traditions of the empire for six thousand years, and it's what defines them; I don't see them quickly taking up the path of the savage orcs.
kelvinaw273
01-23-08, 10:35 AM I think it likely that if the Dhakaani studied druidism at all it would have been purely as an exercise to learn to combat the dealkir, rather than a sincere attempt to learn the religion. there might have been dhakaani among the gatekeepers at the time of the cataclysm, but I doubt they would have maintained an interest after the event.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Durskut 01-20-08, 12:57 PM	my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal and was wondering what the boards think the Dhakaani think of druidism. I don't think they'd have a problem with druids, but would the goblinoids choose to become them? this primarily has to do with rolling on the DMG table for highest level characters of each class and if i should even roll for druid (already took off adept and cleric of obvious reasons, and have decided to not count slaves in the table results). i know there was a big thread a while back where the boards talked about many aspects of goblinoid society. thanks for the help/opinions.
Cuaglar 01-20-08, 02:36 PM	If I recall correctly, in ancient history the Empire and the orc kingdoms of the west clashed frequently, and even today no love is lost between the orcs and the goblins. However, when the Daelkyr invaded, it was the orc Gatekeepers who stemmed the tide. I forget if the goblinoids and the orcs were allied at that time, but seeing how the Empire refused to call the Valaes Tairn to their aid, I don't see how they could accept the orcs they'd been fighting with since time out of mind. Of course, I don't have the ECS at hand, this is just all I remember. I may be more incorrect than a map drawn by a gully dwarf.
Fabius Maximus 01-20-08, 06:51 PM	I think that was mostly correct. The Dhakaani frown on divine casters. I don't know if they would recognize a druid as a divine caster, but I think the whole concept of the 'Powers of Nature' would go over the heads of most of them. They simply don't understand what would lead someone to put his faith into Nature and what he'd expect to get out of it (besides magical power). A goblinoid druid would be an odditiy, but not impossible. I bet there are some among the Gatekeepers.
Alex_ 01-20-08, 09:34 PM	my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal and was wondering what the boards think the Dhakaani think of druidism. I don't think they'd have a problem with druids, but would the goblinoids choose to become them? The Dhakaani simply have no history of Divine spellcasting. As Cuaglar put it (very well) I doubt they would follow the path of the Orcs- one of their greatest rivals. The Dhakaani in general are very isolationist and supremacist in attitude. i know there was a big thread a while back where the boards talked about many aspects of goblinoid society. thanks for the help/opinions. It should be noted here that Dhakaani are not the whole of Goblinoid society. They are merely the last remnants of the long lost empire. The rest of the Goblins descended into a relatively primitive lifestyle, and forgot many of the old ways. They pretty much became the dirty barbaric Goblins mot people are familiar with today. The ones in the back woods probably do have druids and shamans. Then there's Harruc, and his attempt to emulate the old Kingdom of Galifar. He's basically trying to get the once scattered and disjointed Goblinoid tribes and clans to join back up.
Smug 01-21-08, 02:27 PM	Setting aside the direct opposition, to me the key is that the druidic traditions of the orcs are about living as one with nature... while the Dhakaani value order and discipline. The Dhakaani empire was the epitome of civilization at the time - and the orcs were seen as savages. I just can't see the Dhakaani welcoming these barbaric traditions into their own cities. With that said, I did take part in an adventure run by Hellcow himself in which the heroes were Kech Volaar soldiers sent to recover a artifiact that had been created by Dhakaani dirge singers and Gatekeeper druids back in the war. But this was clearly presented as an unusual thing - an "enemy of my enemy" event that had occured at the climax of the cataclysmic war, and on the fringes of the old empire - and there certainly weren't any druids among the Kech Volaar strike force.
Smug 01-21-08, 02:38 PM	my pcs will soon be in Volaar Draal... this primarily has to do with rolling on the DMG table for highest level characters of each class... Personally, I would throw out the DMG table and simply make the hard decisions yourself. Dhakaani society simply isn't supposed to reflect human society. If you check the Dhakaani Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040816a), the typical hobgoblin solider isn't a 1st level warrior as you'd get by the DMG demographics, but rather a 2nd-level fighter. Aside from the role of bards, "many" hobgoblin females are experts; it's up to you to decide if this "many" is more than the DMG would indicate, but among the Kech Volaar - the Dhakaani who value knowledge - I could see a chunk of the 95% normally assigned as commoners being experts with Knowledge skills, languages, and other things that don't help their combat abilities but reflect the value their culture places on the acquisition and preservation of knowledge. So you can go with the DMG table, but that's not going to give you an army based on fighters; you'll end up with more warriors than fighters, more 1st level fighters than 2nd, and so on. I'd simply make Volaar Draal a unique city and set those numbers accordingly.
Fenevall 01-22-08, 12:17 AM	If I remember correctly, Dhakaani magical tradition was historically limited to bards. They did not practice divine magic at all. Druidism wasn't even introduced to the continent of Khorvaire until a dragon taught it to the orcs during the Daelkyr invasion. At this point, the Dhakaani Empire was in the midst of being destroyed. This does not mean that some goblinoids have not picked up other traditions in the many centuries since then, though. Divine casting would still be rare, I think, because Dhakaani are so big on tradition. In fact, Faiths of Eberron states that a small number of goblinoids have become interested in the Gatekeeper tradition and that a few small bands of "hunters" patrol in Darguun. So I would think that they would still be very rare, but could exist.
Smug 01-22-08, 12:51 AM	Druidism wasn't even introduced to the continent of Khorvaire until a dragon taught it to the orcs during the Daelkyr invasion. Actually, Vvaraak came to the orcs 7,000 years before the Daelkyr invasion (ECS pages 224, 241). Page 241 notes that it's uncertain whether or not the Daelkyr invasion was the threat Vvaraak was concerned about. Divine casting would still be rare, I think, because Dhakaani are so big on tradition. In fact, Faiths of Eberron states that a small number of goblinoids have become interested in the Gatekeeper tradition and that a few small bands of "hunters" patrol in Darguun. I think Alex_ made the key point here. There's a big difference between "goblins" and "Dhakaani". Unless FoE specifically said that these new goblin druids are Dhakaani, I'd assume that they were Ghaal'dar. Following the fall of the empire, the Ghaal'dar developed the faith of the Sixteen Gods. It's not hard to imagine some among them embracing the druidic traditions. But the Heirs of Dhakaan have held onto the traditions of the empire for six thousand years, and it's what defines them; I don't see them quickly taking up the path of the savage orcs.
kelvinaw273 01-23-08, 10:35 AM	I think it likely that if the Dhakaani studied druidism at all it would have been purely as an exercise to learn to combat the dealkir, rather than a sincere attempt to learn the religion. there might have been dhakaani among the gatekeepers at the time of the cataclysm, but I doubt they would have maintained an interest after the event.