Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AkumaDaimyo 06-18-07, 09:02 AM	For example does the Dreaming Dark know of the Lords of Dust? The Dragon Below? Emerald Claw? Blood of Vol? Lord of Blades? How much do these different evil factions know about each other and would any of them ever work togethere or directly and knowingly oppose each other? There seems to be a lot of interesting villians in the game and it's always bad news when they decide to work together. I'm just not sure which ones could or would ally for a shared purpose.
Need_A_Life 06-18-07, 09:12 AM	The Blood of Vol is a religion. Only those in the inner circle would know about Erandis d'Vol. Thus, the Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust might know about it, but I doubt anyone else would. The Dreaming Dark is virtually unknown in Khovaire. At most, you're going to think it's part of the Kalashtar paranoia. However, Sarlona has begun to let a few select individuals into their country, so it's only a matter of time before rumours begin to spread... Whether the Dreaming Dark will silence the rumours, manipulate them or ignore them remains to be seen. The Lords of Dust don't cooperate with other organisations. Everyone and everything that is not a member of the Lords of Dust is a pawn to be used. Period. The Dragon Below. I don't know. They're certainly well-known, but who would want to cooperate with them? Emerald Claw? Who'd want to deal with a known terrorist organisation, outlawed in the one land that actually supported them? The people who'll admit to working with the Emerald Claw are too stupid to be a threat and the ones who won't will resort to manipulation. The Lord of Blades? I doubt it. How many of the above are "fleshies"? He'll want to destroy them all for sending his race to die
Yakman 06-18-07, 11:36 AM	It all depends on how you play it. I mean, the Aurum and Erandis d'Vol or the Lord of Blades might be fairly close--even liches need to make deposits or a chunk of jink in a pinch. The Dreaming Dark is probably well aware of the existence of the Lords of Dust--it's pretty much spelled out in SoS, but the LoD might be so far removed from the world that while their cultists may be actively engaged in battling other vile factions, the actual Rajahs may have no solid idea about what's happening on the surface. It's possible that none of the baddies are really well acquainted with each other... On the other hand, the Rajahs could have arranged literally EVERYTHING--the invasions from both Xoriat and Dal Quor, Lhazar's exodus, the War of the Mark, the Last War, the Mourning, Thronehold, everything. What's great about how Keith Baker has designed Eberron is that everything is extremely ambiguous. It's like he gave the DM the pieces, but not a blueprint.
Alex_ 06-18-07, 12:11 PM	I wouldn't imagine any of the Evil factions being predisposed to knowing more about each other than the Good or Neutral ones. For instance, I doubt the secret society inside the Aurum is very interested in furthering the causes of Vol any more than any other group that could provide them with oppurtunities. I don't see why Vol would be interested in the goals the Cults of the Dragon Below. And I definitely don't see the Lord of Blades differentiating between a Human of the Silver Flame, or one of the Emerald Claw. Most of these groups are looking to rule/destroy/radically shape Eberron/Khorvaire in very different ways, and given how Evil is in many cases more selfish and less cooperative, I wouldn't think they willingly work together or go to any great efforts to make their overall structure/methods/goals known.
AkumaDaimyo 06-18-07, 12:14 PM	I dont see why some of them couldn't work together though if their goals didnt conflict. Besides in the Last War many "good" nations made and broke alliances all the time, why couldn't these evil groups do the same?
Alex_ 06-18-07, 12:33 PM	If you can come up with a good enough reason, providing goals or objectives that don't conflict with one another, then you could have Evil factions team up. However, keep in mind that although Good and Evil are not black and white in Eberron, Evil is still the much darker shade of gray, and white is a lighter one. Evil individuals on average are still going to be more selfish and less prone to self-sacrifice and cheerful cooperation than Good. And many of the organizations you mentioned are secretive. They're secretive because they don't want ANYONE knowing what they're doing. The council in the Aurum doesn't want anyone knwoing they plan to take over the world, including Vol. The Lord of Blades wants all non-constructs to die, no matter their alignment, faith, political affiliation, etc, including agents of the Dreaming Dark. The Lords of Dust want to take over everything, including the Lord of Blades. The Daylkyr want to invade the material plane and turn everything in it into crazy mind bending freak mutations, including the Emerald Claw. These are the kinds of ambitions and reputations that earn you enemies regardless of alignment. These are not the kinds of secrets you betray for a quick temporary alliance. By making themselves more public in any way more than is necessary, they risk exposing themselves to others. Of course this is in regard to formal alliances. As with all organizations, things might become a bit more muddied and confusing as you mode down the ranks.
AkumaDaimyo 06-18-07, 12:37 PM	Hmm good point. I know evil doesnt play well together but I like the idea of some of them working together. They dont have to know who each other is though. It could be two shadowy dudes working together for some vile purpose. Could be funny too when they betray each other and find out who each other works for. Kinda like they are one upping each other on whose revealed secret is more dramatic. :P
Rechan 06-18-07, 04:26 PM	I would expect that the various organizations know about one another to the extent that they are combating one another. After all, how long have these groups been around? Of course they've went after the same magical items, key locations, etc etc - heck, they've probably attacked one another at some point and time. The LoD, DD and Daelkyr all have opposing mission statements. The LoD are as old as time itself, so they should be Well Aware of the Daelkyr; Rakshasas likely saw the Daelkyr invasion. Cults of the Dragon Below can and do worship Rajahs and Daelkyr, and such cults have likely warred in the past. And to assume that Quori plots and Rakshasas havn't crossed paths is really, really unlikely. And it wouldn't take long for a Rakshasa to share info with another one about some strange entities possessing mortals and getting in the way. Dal Quor should be aware of Xoriat and its lords, purely because Xoriat is another source of psionic power, and the Qouri would be all over that. The Daelkyr want to pretty much mutate Eberron to their liking, and I doubt the DD or the LoD want that to happen, because it would mess up their plans. The Aurum are just a group of powerful rich guys. And in that, their members can be members of other organizations. An Aurum agent could be a worshipper of the Dragon Below, or a LoD agent, or a mindseeded Quori. Erandis d'Vol has likely run aground with a few of the other groups, and is aware to an extent, but she's not going to really do anything about it unless it assists in her own ends. A few members of the Qouri may be aware of her existance purely because they ran across BoV agents, but otherwise, I don't see it. They likely would have little to gain from such knowledge. The Lord of Blades likely knows a thing or two, but he doesn't talk to anybody. Though I could see some sort of alliance between the Lord of Blades and the Blood of Vol. Namely because they don't have opposing views.
The_wizard_Tim 06-18-07, 05:57 PM	In my game they do know some about each other but none know everything. Right now in my campain the Pc's have the LoD and the dreaming dark and the blades fighting each other to get there hands on a schema that the PC's have hidden in the mournland (its not what they think it is but anyway...) I see the nasty groups not wanting to share anything with anyone so they might ally for a bit but as soon as one get a chance they will stab the other in the back.
yrogerg 06-18-07, 09:05 PM	I dont see why some of them couldn't work together though if their goals didnt conflict. Besides in the Last War many "good" nations made and broke alliances all the time, why couldn't these evil groups do the same? You do realize that by and large, their goals do conflict, though: The Daelkyr, and their pawns, want to destory teh world. The Quori want to keep it under control, with them as the invisible leaders, preventing progress, change, or disruption. The Lords of Dust want, ultimately, to return to the Age of Fiends, and unleash their Raja Overlords. The agendas of both the Lord of Blades and Vol are far smaller-scale, and generally involve the survival of the mortal races, but whereas Vol's more interested in the humanoid races, the LoBster's more concerned about ruling Latveria a massive, genocidal construct nation. Thus, while it *is* possible that one or two of the Smaller BEGs is being manipulated by one or more of the other major powers in the world, it's doubtful that you'd see them decide to team up all that much.
AkumaDaimyo 06-18-07, 09:10 PM	Damn, no "Brotherhood of Evil" then? :( Hmm what about the possibility of one of these groups working with the PCs vs another group? I know Sarlona did talk about the possibility of being agents of the dreaming dark.
Rechan 06-18-07, 11:23 PM	You do realize that by and large, their goals do conflict, though: The Daelkyr, and their pawns, want to destory teh world. Not necessarily. They don't want to DESTROY it, they want to conquer it and then mutate it into their version of a Utopia. Their utopian beauty is just so drastically different than ours. Remember Aberrations to the Daelkyr are works of art. ;) The agendas of both the Lord of Blades and Vol are far smaller-scale, and generally involve the survival of the mortal races, but whereas Vol's more interested in the humanoid races, the LoBster's more concerned about ruling Latveria a massive, genocidal construct nation. What IS the goal of Vol, exactly? I mean, what does she WANT?
Alex_ 06-18-07, 11:27 PM	Damn, no "Brotherhood of Evil" then? :( What about a council of Evil Doers who are outcasts from their own societies? A Sanguin with dark black scales who wishes to usurp rule from his brother, a spotted shifter from the Eldeen Reaches who likes to steal, an awakened Gorilla with a high intelligence score, a homicidal Bard, a convicted and executed felon from Karnnath raised as a Zombie who eventually escaped, all led by an influential member of House Cannith who convenes with them in private? They can have a secret hold deep in the Shadow Marches. Every few months they concoct some crazy scheme, but the PCs always foil their plans! They occasionally get throne into Dreadhold, but always escape to hatch more evil schemes. Hmm what about the possibility of one of these groups working with the PCs vs another group? I know Sarlona did talk about the possibility of being agents of the dreaming dark. Sounds great.
yrogerg 06-18-07, 11:28 PM	What IS the goal of Vol, exactly? I mean, what does she WANT? Well, at least part of her agenda is reviving the Mark of Death. Which, y'know, would require having living humanoids.
yrogerg 06-18-07, 11:31 PM	Damn, no "Brotherhood of Evil" then? :( Hmm what about the possibility of one of these groups working with the PCs vs another group? I know Sarlona did talk about the possibility of being agents of the dreaming dark. Likely, even. They could even be unwitting pawns of the Dreaming Dark, and still be good people, overall. One of my friends ran a campaign where the party (which even included a Kalahstar) was working for Sharn's House Deneith against the machinations of the Lord of Blades.
yrogerg 06-18-07, 11:32 PM	Not necessarily. They don't want to DESTROY it, they want to conquer it and then mutate it into their version of a Utopia. Their utopian beauty is just so drastically different than ours. Remember Aberrations to the Daelkyr are works of art. ;) I think the quote you're looking for is that "To the Daelkyr, destroying worlds is an art form". :P
Cifer 06-19-07, 11:49 AM	While long-term cooperation often is out of the question (that would entail revealing what your long-term goals are), short-term alliances are practical quite often - the Lords of Dust would happily supply everyone with their help if they get a chance to strike against Thrane and the Silver Flame.
Yakman 06-19-07, 02:21 PM	While long-term cooperation often is out of the question (that would entail revealing what your long-term goals are), short-term alliances are practical quite often - the Lords of Dust would happily supply everyone with their help if they get a chance to strike against Thrane and the Silver Flame. unless that particular raja was not popular with the others, and they are glad to see him gone... ;) long-term co-operation most certainly an option for a number of groups. There's no real conflict of interest between Erandis d'Vol and the Aurum for instance. The Emerald Claw almost certainly need powerful friends around Khorvaire. And I could see Vol reaching an informal agreement with the Dreaming Dark--she keeps the pirate fleets around Lhazar and they stay out of her business. The LoD are representing the biggest, baddest dudes in the world. It's possible that the Rajahs are behind almost everything on the planet--they might be attempting to force the hand of the Dragons and the remaining coatls -- a deal for their freedom in exchange for aid against Xoriat or Dal Quor. After all, the daelkyr can't be bargained with, and the Rajahs at least want to preserve the broad status quo of 'existence'. So there's some basis for a League of Evil.
AkumaDaimyo 06-20-07, 02:09 AM	What about a council of Evil Doers who are outcasts from their own societies? A Sanguin with dark black scales who wishes to usurp rule from his brother, a spotted shifter from the Eldeen Reaches who likes to steal, an awakened Gorilla with a high intelligence score, a homicidal Bard, a convicted and executed felon from Karnnath raised as a Zombie who eventually escaped, all led by an influential member of House Cannith who convenes with them in private? They can have a secret hold deep in the Shadow Marches. Every few months they concoct some crazy scheme, but the PCs always foil their plans! They occasionally get throne into Dreadhold, but always escape to hatch more evil schemes. Sounds great. Hmm sounds more like your talking about that DC Villians group. I was talking more about Marvel's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. But your idea does sound kinda cool or funny. I liked the Cartoon Network stuff making fun of them. "All I want is a decent pair of pants!" -Solomon Grundy. So which one of those guys mentioned is which? I don't think you mentioned the Riddler or Toyman though. Hmm I think the Riddler could be a Dragon Below guy with a penchant for cryptic messages and riddles. Toyman could be a insane rogue artificer. Wasn't there also a robot guy too? HMM THE JUSTICE FIVE NATIONS LEAUGE! :-)
Wizardman 06-21-07, 06:12 AM	In my opinion, the likeliest alliance is between the Lords of Dust and the Dreaming Dark. It is speculated that the current Dream of the Age is the third. Assuming that the dream proceeds in a pendulum-like fashion, the first age of Dal Quor must have been much like the current age. The second age ended when the Giants severed the major link between DQ and the Prime, or very shortly after. This raises the question: when did the first age end? I'm speculating, but if the belief that the dreams of mortals affect the Dream of the Age is correct, then the first age would have ended shortly after the war with the demons ended. The non-draconic mortal races were practically cavemen, but they would have noticed if the "monsters" stopped fighting each other. Between that and the evil essence of the rajahs being sealed away, the dreams of mortals would have become happier. It wouldn't have happened immediately, but it would have happened. My gut instinct is that the age changed shortly after the rajahs were sealed, but the Devourer of Dreams' analogue wouldn't have discovered il-Yannah until the dragons started educating the giants-- and that is at the soonest. Assuming that this is all true, then it is no great leap to claim that the dreams which result when the demons are in charge are ideal for il-Lashtavar, and the health of il-Lashtavar is what the quori really care about. I've no doubt that some quori take great pleasure in their direct influence over Sarlonans, but most really only care about making sure that the Age never turns. If the majority of quori were convinced that unleashing the rajahs was the best way to accomplish that, that is what they would do. The LoD's would have to be stupid to turn down such an offer. They are fractious, to ay the least, but they aren't stupid. If the quori really will benefit whether the rajahs are released tomorrow or in a thousand years, and if repaying the favour means doing what they would have done anyway, then they would take the offer. The dragons don't have an army of couatls this time (at least not until it's too late), and the quori can strike at them in ways that even the fiends cannot. I'm not saying that the alliance is natural, or would be without incident, but the reward for both sides would be great if they could make it work long enough.
The White Sorcerer 06-21-07, 06:22 AM	I figure there are mortals who know about these evil factions. To say that the immortals only might know about them is pretty ridicilous. And I also now have an image in my head of a Lord of Dust waving his cane (a magic staff, maybe?) at a daelkyr and a quori, shouting "Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!"
ArcTan 06-23-07, 01:43 AM	In my opinion, the likeliest alliance is between the Lords of Dust and the Dreaming Dark. It is speculated that the current Dream of the Age is the third. Assuming that the dream proceeds in a pendulum-like fashion, the first age of Dal Quor must have been much like the current age. The second age ended when the Giants severed the major link between DQ and the Prime, or very shortly after. This raises the question: when did the first age end? I'm speculating, but if the belief that the dreams of mortals affect the Dream of the Age is correct, then the first age would have ended shortly after the war with the demons ended. The non-draconic mortal races were practically cavemen, but they would have noticed if the "monsters" stopped fighting each other. Between that and the evil essence of the rajahs being sealed away, the dreams of mortals would have become happier. It wouldn't have happened immediately, but it would have happened. My gut instinct is that the age changed shortly after the rajahs were sealed, but the Devourer of Dreams' analogue wouldn't have discovered il-Yannah until the dragons started educating the giants-- and that is at the soonest. Assuming that this is all true, then it is no great leap to claim that the dreams which result when the demons are in charge are ideal for il-Lashtavar, and the health of il-Lashtavar is what the quori really care about. I've no doubt that some quori take great pleasure in their direct influence over Sarlonans, but most really only care about making sure that the Age never turns. If the majority of quori were convinced that unleashing the rajahs was the best way to accomplish that, that is what they would do. The LoD's would have to be stupid to turn down such an offer. They are fractious, to ay the least, but they aren't stupid. If the quori really will benefit whether the rajahs are released tomorrow or in a thousand years, and if repaying the favour means doing what they would have done anyway, then they would take the offer. The dragons don't have an army of couatls this time (at least not until it's too late), and the quori can strike at them in ways that even the fiends cannot. I'm not saying that the alliance is natural, or would be without incident, but the reward for both sides would be great if they could make it work long enough. As I interpret the fluff, the fact that the "Turning of the Age" is speculated to be something that will destroy il-Lashtavar utterly and *replace* it with il-Yannah -- and, in so doing, remake the whole plane of Dal Quor -- means that il-Lashtavar itself was created in a similar turning of an Age -- the Second to the Third -- and didn't exist back then. None of the Quori now living remember the Second Age. They're all products of the Third. That means that a shift back from the Third to the First would be just as devastating to them as a shift forward to the Fourth. This is borne out by the existence of Shira, a Docent who embodies a Quori from the Second Age who has little in common with the Dreaming Dark of the Third Age (and, indeed, opposes them -- but is an outsider to the whole Kalashtar vs. Quor Tarai thing). I would think that the Dreaming Dark would find any actual return of the Overlords on a large scale to be anathema to their plans -- but the Lords of Dust probably think on a timescale that dwarfs even Quori patience.
ArcTan 06-23-07, 01:49 AM	For the record, there are some false assumptions made by the OP's question. The Cults of the Dragon Below, for instance, are not a unified entity -- they're the blanket term for various antisocial movements dedicated to the worship of destructive entities bound in Khyber. Some may not truly understand the nature of Khyber at all and simply be psychotic death-cults. Some only worship Khyber as a general ideal representing the hidden and destructive -- one step down from the already sociopathic worship of the Dark Six. And some may worship the Daelkyr or the Rakshasa or a specific Rakshasa Rajah. It all depends. The Daelkyr and the Lords of Dust probably do find individual Cults of the Dragon Below useful pawns at times, though the ones who worship the Daelkyr are much more likely to take orders from servants of the Daelkyr like a colony of Mind Flayers or a single Beholder Hive Mother, just like those CotDB who worship the Lords of Dust are likely to serve a single Rakshasa who's chosen to make use of them (and probably hasn't let them in on any of the actual hierarchy or secrets of the Lords of Dust). Also, the Emerald Claw *is* the Blood of Vol -- that is, while the Claw is publicly just a very very extreme terrorist fringe element of the Blood of Vol, the big secret is that it's actually Erandis d'Vol's pet army that's being funded and directed by all the higher-ups in the BoV hierarchy and paid for by the tithes and donations of the wider BoV community.
ArcTan 06-23-07, 01:59 AM	Not necessarily. They don't want to DESTROY it, they want to conquer it and then mutate it into their version of a Utopia. Their utopian beauty is just so drastically different than ours. Remember Aberrations to the Daelkyr are works of art. ;) What IS the goal of Vol, exactly? I mean, what does she WANT? The *specific* goals of Erandis d'Vol -- i.e her specific Master Plan -- are a Big Secret precisely to keep the setting interesting. However, it can probably be summed up pretty fairly as "conquer the world". At the very least, her end goal must involve setting up a big, public power base -- reestablishing the Mark of Death and the House of Vol that was destroyed so long ago. Doing so would involve smashing up the current Dragonmarked Houses structure *and* smashing up the current lockhold positive-energy-based religions like the CotSF have on the world. Not to mention getting her revenge against the Elves of Aerenal and the Dragons of Argonnessen after all this time. It's hard to imagine her getting away with all these victories without basically having conquered the world somewhere along the way.
The White Sorcerer 06-23-07, 04:27 AM	The *specific* goals of Erandis d'Vol -- i.e her specific Master Plan -- are a Big Secret precisely to keep the setting interesting. However, it can probably be summed up pretty fairly as "conquer the world". Why would she want to conquer the world? I could see her planning to do so, but it's definately not the only option.
ArcTan 06-23-07, 01:52 PM	Why would she want to conquer the world? I could see her planning to do so, but it's definately not the only option. At the very least, she's going to conquer *something*, if not the whole world.
The White Sorcerer 06-24-07, 02:27 AM	At the very least, she's going to conquer *something*, if not the whole world. Again, why?
ArcTan 06-24-07, 10:06 AM	Again, why? It's hard to imagine any of the vague goals we know she has coming to fruition without her eventually coming out of the shadows and having the resources of a nation and army behind her. (How else could she take revenge on the whole nation of Aerenal, or the Dragons of Argonnessen, or the Dragonmarked Houses? How the hell else could she reinstate the Mark of Death and House Vol as a noble house and powerful institution?) Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but the whole existence of the Emerald Claw and the nature of her methods makes me think she sees political takeover in her future.
The White Sorcerer 06-24-07, 01:05 PM	Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but the whole existence of the Emerald Claw and the nature of her methods makes me think she sees political takeover in her future. Maybe not political takeover, but I do see her seeking power. That power, however, is not her ultimate goal. Her ultimate goals are, IMC, the resurrection of her House and revenge against those responsible for its demise. After those goals are accomplished, she'll become the leader of House Vol and start striving towards her house's goal: Immortality. Really, the only major faction that I see seeking world domination "just because" is the Lords of Dust.
Rechan 06-24-07, 01:11 PM	Really, the only major faction that I see seeking world domination "just because" is the Lords of Dust. I don't see it as "Just because"; that is the final aspect of their goal. The LoD want to free the Rajahs and return the world to the Age of Demons. World domination is just an inevitable byproduct of that.
Revvecor 06-24-07, 01:23 PM	It's hard to imagine any of the vague goals we know she has coming to fruition without her eventually coming out of the shadows and having the resources of a nation and army behind her. (How else could she take revenge on the whole nation of Aerenal, or the Dragons of Argonnessen, or the Dragonmarked Houses? How the hell else could she reinstate the Mark of Death and House Vol as a noble house and powerful institution?) Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but the whole existence of the Emerald Claw and the nature of her methods makes me think she sees political takeover in her future. Maybe its just me, but I always considered Vol and her inner circle to be a secret society that used subterfuge and shock tactics to sew seeds of doubt and destruction in there enemies. From these actions they would be able to make attacks on both the Dragon and elves.
DBlizzard 06-24-07, 06:48 PM	You do realize that by and large, their goals do conflict, though: Even when they do, don't put it past them to try to use the ones with incompatible goals. For example, the Dreaming Dark might try to use a member of the Lords of Dust, figuring they can stop his goal before he gets to it.
ArcTan 06-25-07, 04:55 AM	Maybe its just me, but I always considered Vol and her inner circle to be a secret society that used subterfuge and shock tactics to sew seeds of doubt and destruction in there enemies. From these actions they would be able to make attacks on both the Dragon and elves. I don't think she's going to be content with living in the shadows forever, though. The creation of the Emerald Claw attests to her becoming increasingly openly active.
ArcTan 06-25-07, 04:55 AM	I don't see it as "Just because"; that is the final aspect of their goal. The LoD want to free the Rajahs and return the world to the Age of Demons. World domination is just an inevitable byproduct of that. Sure. Just like I think world domination -- or dominating a large portion of the world -- is going to be an inevitable byproduct of Vol's quest to resurrect her House and acquire true immortality.
The White Sorcerer 06-25-07, 08:41 AM	Sure. Just like I think world domination -- or dominating a large portion of the world -- is going to be an inevitable byproduct of Vol's quest to resurrect her House and acquire true immortality. How? Release of the Overlords —> Return to the Age of Demons —> demons control the world —> world domination Logical. Resurrection of House Vol and reaching true immortality —> world domination What?
ArcTan 06-25-07, 05:11 PM	How? Release of the Overlords —> Return to the Age of Demons —> demons control the world —> world domination Logical. Resurrection of House Vol and reaching true immortality —> world domination What? You really think the ordinary, un-dominated world in its current state is in any mood to just sit back and let Vol do her thing?
Cifer 06-25-07, 06:56 PM	Except for Aerenal and possibly King Kaius? Yep. If her two goals really are "only" immortality and getting her house back, I don't really see anyone else opposing her.
Yakman 06-26-07, 11:26 AM	Except for Aerenal and possibly King Kaius? Yep. If her two goals really are "only" immortality and getting her house back, I don't really see anyone else opposing her. The Dragons?
Cifer 06-26-07, 02:59 PM	Why would they? As long as Erandis doesn't try recreating the dragon fiasco, they'd probably be content with letting her do whatever she wants. After all, they already tried to kill her house once and some might be willing to point out that the prophecy doesn't want any of the dragonmarks permanently extinguished. Further, when dragons interfere with anything, they tend to do so on a quite massive scale. It's questionable if that would be justified or practical at that point.
yrogerg 06-26-07, 03:24 PM	Why would they? As long as Erandis doesn't try recreating the dragon fiasco, they'd probably be content with letting her do whatever she wants. After all, they already tried to kill her house once and some might be willing to point out that the prophecy doesn't want any of the dragonmarks permanently extinguished. Further, when dragons interfere with anything, they tend to do so on a quite massive scale. It's questionable if that would be justified or practical at that point. If part of her goal is to exact revenge on the dragons, one might infer that the dragons might have an interest in not being venged upon. (Yes, I'm making up words)
Rekko 06-26-07, 05:28 PM	Vol might want to create an Undead Court which she would lead to oppose the Undying Court and surpass it. Since most of her followers are found in Karnnath and Lhazaar, she might want to rule these first. The Mournland is full of dead bodies... I guess it makes a necromancer happy. Valenar, an elf nation, good pool for reviving the Mark of Death.
The White Sorcerer 06-27-07, 02:45 AM	You really think the ordinary, un-dominated world in its current state is in any mood to just sit back and let Vol do her thing? If it doesn't know about her doings? Yes. It has been in such a mood before, why would that suddendly change?
El_Machinae 06-27-07, 09:04 AM	You really think the ordinary, un-dominated world in its current state is in any mood to just sit back and let Vol do her thing? Ah, the nature of evil ... it never tends to teamwork. If she tried to work on a system that got everyone involved immortal, then more people would agree.
Yakman 06-27-07, 11:07 AM	Why would they? As long as Erandis doesn't try recreating the dragon fiasco, they'd probably be content with letting her do whatever she wants. After all, they already tried to kill her house once and some might be willing to point out that the prophecy doesn't want any of the dragonmarks permanently extinguished. Further, when dragons interfere with anything, they tend to do so on a quite massive scale. It's questionable if that would be justified or practical at that point. Erandis WAS the dragon fiasco. Her return to the main stage might well arouse the same draconic furor. While they might not take active action, the Conclave (or another draconic group) might move against her covertly.
ArcTan 06-28-07, 12:34 AM	Why would they? As long as Erandis doesn't try recreating the dragon fiasco, they'd probably be content with letting her do whatever she wants. After all, they already tried to kill her house once and some might be willing to point out that the prophecy doesn't want any of the dragonmarks permanently extinguished. Further, when dragons interfere with anything, they tend to do so on a quite massive scale. It's questionable if that would be justified or practical at that point. As pointed out, she *is* the Dragon fiasco. They invaded Aerenal and began a huge, bloody war *just because she was born*. They only stopped the invasion because they thought she was *dead* (because, in fact, she *was* dead -- they just didn't anticipate she could be Lichfied so quickly or easily). Somehow I don't think the Dragons would be happy if they had proof that the little girl they razed half a continent to kill survived and grew up to be a super-powerful Lich, founder of one of Khorvaire's major religions and manipulator of half the political events in the world for her own benefit.
ArcTan 06-28-07, 12:35 AM	If it doesn't know about her doings? Yes. It has been in such a mood before, why would that suddendly change? Because actually coming back as a full-fledged immortal goddess and re-creating a Dragonmarked House and such is one of those things it's hard to do while remaining in the shadows. She's not going to step out of the shadows *now*. She will have to *eventually*, unless her plans become really, really convoluted.
Rekko 06-28-07, 10:01 AM	Vol doesn't have to come out of the shadows. She could have one of her puppets doing that for her.
Yakman 06-28-07, 11:02 AM	Vol doesn't have to come out of the shadows. She could have one of her puppets doing that for her. if people start showing up in Sharn with marks of death, it's going to cause an uproar, and someone is going to look into it. vol is only able to operate because she moves very slowly, very discretely. if she were able to restore her bloodline the dragons and the undying court would be roused to action.
The White Sorcerer 06-29-07, 07:35 AM	They invaded Aerenal and began a huge, bloody war *just because she was born*. Actually they were already at war, and Erandis d'Vol was an attempt to end it.
The White Sorcerer 06-29-07, 07:35 AM	Because actually coming back as a full-fledged immortal goddess and re-creating a Dragonmarked House and such is one of those things it's hard to do while remaining in the shadows. I don't see why it would be.
ArcTan 07-02-07, 09:44 PM	Actually they were already at war, and Erandis d'Vol was an attempt to end it. Erandis d'Vol was the critical factor that pushed the Dragons into invading Aerenal in force and teaming up with their hated Aeren enemies to do it because of how much they hated the idea of the "Abomination".
Euangelion 07-02-07, 10:55 PM	I'll throw out a few thoughts... I think that the source of dragonmarked elves to receive the revived Mark of Death will be House Thuranni... The LoD would be happy to work with any individual fiend of any type, but when it comes to groups they don't work with others unless it's completely to their advantage... The Dreaming Dark fears the rakshasa rajahs (who wouldn't?), as per Secrets of Sarlona... The Aurum would seem to me to be the most vulnerable to influence by other groups... Vol's ultimate goal is to become a god...
GrimAlchemist 07-03-07, 12:38 AM	There's a bit of confusion about Erandis' involvement in the Elf/Dragon wars. The Dragons fought on and off with the elves for nearly 22,000 years before the Mark of Death even appeared among the elves. It was when a green dragon and the matriarch of House Vol sought to end the millenniums of conflict by creating Erandis, a half-dragon child, did the elves and dragons unite to destroy this abomination of both races. House Vol was wiped out, the Mark of Death all but destroyed, and Erandis narrowly survived as a Lich, the only remaining member of house Vol. While Vol's ultimate goal is a secret, it's been mentioned in sourcebooks that Vol would like to see the Mark of Death restored, and to exact her revenge on the Aerenal elves and the Dragons for what they did to her family. And she's had about 2,600 years to brood on the matter. I could see her secretly reviving the Mark of Death, but to get revenge against an entire nation of elves, and the incredibly powerful dragons, she's going to need armies, even if she's still leading them from the shadows. If her goal is indeed to become a Goddess, well it's hard for people to worship you if they don't know you're there. P.S. Where's the love for the Daughters of Sora Kell?