Dragon Embassy in Sharn. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Embassy in Sharn. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rauric
08-12-07, 07:45 AM One of my players told me there is an Embassy with representitives from the dragon continent in Sharn. I could't find this place anywhere though. Is he mistaken or did I miss it?
Bakho
08-12-07, 10:39 AM I don't believe that the dragons of Argonnessen build embassies. They are secluded, and remain quite a mystery for most people of Khorvaire. There is a district called Dragon Towers in Sharn (that's where the embassies of the other foreign countries are, if I remember it correctly). Maybe your player mixed up Dragon Towers with Argonnessen, since that's where the other embassies are?
Dr. Benway
08-12-07, 10:40 AM NOpe your friend is mistaken. Why would the dragons bother to talk to such inferior and short lived beings? Its like bargaining with a rhesus monkey.
The dragontowers district of sharn is where the dragonmarked houses have their headquarters and 'embassies'.

DocB
:88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall previal?
Demangel
08-12-07, 02:23 PM I have to agree that I don't recall hearing of any official embassy in Sharn (as in a big tower with "Embassy of the Chamber" written on). However I think to write them (the dragons) off as being disinterested and not involved in Sharn would be a major mistake as well.

The Dragons are indeed much more active than that, but they prefer to work from the shadows to watch (or sometimes even help) the prophesy unfold. This indicates to me that there could indeed be a few dragons running around the city (usually in humanoid guises, or using pawns), and go to great lengths to keep their true identities secret.

Clearly not all the dragons would be their on official, or even approved business, I'm sure a renegade or two might be lurking somewhere, and could be the very reason the others are there in the first place.

The way I handle it, as DM I mean, I assume there is at least a dragon or two in Sharn always, indeed, my PC's have done their bidding on occasion, but they themselves don't know it.

The point is, an adventuring group might be dealing with dragons, and never know it, so from their point of view, NO there are no dragons in Sharn... But alas, there are.

If your really looking to incorporate dragons into your adventure, keep it true to the idea that dragons typically keep their identities and dealings as secretive as possible. If a dragon ever openly approaches anyone it's a big deal indicative of a situation of monumental importance, or peril for the party.

I personally have always felt that dragons should always be dealt with in D&D (be it Eberron or FG) with a kind of reverence (they are part of the name of the game), and should never be downplayed as insignificant or mundane.

When a dragon appears in my games, people are supposed to sit up straight and pay close attention because something important is about to happen that they don't want to miss.

In many ways, this is more true in Eberron than any other setting precisely because of how infrequent Dragons openly reveal themselves to anyone.

To sum up:

1: Dragons ARE interested in the dealings of the lesser races, at least some of them are. Especially since humanoids started developing Dragon Marks...
2: Dragons rarely reveal themselves.
3: When they do it's a big deal.

The beauty of this for a DM is, you never have to reveal that there is a dragon involved until you really want or need to.

So if it helps your game to make the PC's feel like dragons aren't even interested in the world beyond their own home (talk about misconception), thats fine, but don't fall into the mistake of believing it yourself...
The Dreaming Duck
08-12-07, 04:10 PM The Dragons are indeed much more active than that, but they prefer to work from the shadows to watch (or sometimes even help) the prophesy unfold. This indicates to me that there could indeed be a few dragons running around the city (usually in humanoid guises, or using pawns), and go to great lengths to keep their true identities secret.
I'll just point out that this is precisely the basis of Keith Baker's short story "Principles of Fire" (in the collection Dragons: Worlds Afire).

But the story focuses on exactly that - hidden action. Certainly no open embassy. The presence of a dragon in Sharn is a big surprise to everyone involved.
Nerdicus
08-12-07, 05:04 PM I have it in my games where the dragons are often behind much more then is let on. Taking the form of humans and common races and working their way into the trust of high powered individuals and using their superior smarts to use these people as pawns. But they work as individuals, jealously hiding their presence from all, including other dragons. But like someone before said, if one shows himself to the world, it is a huge friggen deal.

I also have it where there are many many sects of dragons that wants different things for the world. But that is just how I do things.
Rauric
08-12-07, 06:53 PM I thought so. He has a kobold who wants to get into contact with some dragons and work for them if he can. I don't mind him trying, I just have to work it into my plot, and he just needs to go about another way of doing it.
Nerdicus
08-13-07, 06:11 PM I would think that finding the dragons would be near impossible without drawing their attention to ones self.
Darakhoranon
08-14-07, 04:23 AM And by running around Sharn and asking "Where is the embassy of Argonessen?" he´d be doing exactly that. He´d get lots and lots of attention. From the DD, LoD, Dark Lanterns, Citadel, Aurum... Maybe (just maybe) even from the chamber...
Delfedd
08-19-07, 09:38 PM I'd answer "In Argonessen."
Darakhoranon
08-20-07, 06:42 AM Actually, an embassy of Argonessen IN Argonessen (that´s how I understand your answer, Delfedd) would be a bit... unusual... wouldn´t it?
Of course, if there are different "dragon countries" on the continent, having an embassy of realm A in the capital of realm B would make sense...
nyysjan
08-20-07, 10:19 AM well, dragon countries are kinda silly, most cultures band together for survival because individuals are weak, but dragons are, from the moment they hatch, more than capable of looking after themselves.
Darakhoranon
08-20-07, 03:24 PM True - but some kind of "alliance" of dragons banding together to pool (part of) their resources to defend against common enemies/achieve common goals isn´t that unlikely. It would be more like a wizards´ guild than a "normal" country, but I don´t think it would be completely out of character for dragons to form a (relatively) far-flung alliance with others of their kind. For the most part each dragon would be on his/her own, but under certain circumstances...
My main point, though, was that looking for a "dragon embassy" on Argonessen would be totally crazy. But still, to find anything even remotely resembling an embassy, you need something resembling a country...
nyysjan
08-21-07, 08:40 AM True, nations as understood by humans would not form, as there is no need for them.
But there is a lot of collective efforts going on, but unlike nations, these groups would have no geological meaning, and dragons would join and leave depending on circumstances, unlike in human nations that are rooted in place and where you are born into.

Any leader among dragons would be because of personal power, experience and/or wisdom, while some respect might come from being sired/laid by some notable dragon, it is doubtfull it would translate into straight power (altough it might help you to be heard, but only that, your words would have to carry on their own merit).

It is also perfectly plausible that there is somekind of overcouncil that governs all dragons (possibly filled by ancient wyrms who have taken dragon ascendant prc and are immortal and have divine rank), but acts only at the direst need (breaking of xen'drik, destruction of house vol, (mourning?) and the like)
Rauric
08-21-07, 01:04 PM I figure the big reason there is a Dragon nation is because of the Age of Demons. That was a pretty big threat eh?
nyysjan
08-21-07, 01:53 PM but not big enough to make a nation necessary, no need for government, no need for taxes or even laws as such, definetly no need for borders (altough anyone going into Argonessen is asking to be eaten).
Darakhoranon
08-22-07, 08:15 AM Well, you could call it a "nation" - but since we´re talking about fire-breathing, spell-flinging flying reptiles here, most things WE see as necessary for a nation aren´t needed...
It´d probably go more along the lines of "federation of more or less independent dragons who rule (relatively) small portions of Argonessen". In times of need you´d have enough of an organization to take care of your problems, while in times of peace you´d have endless potential for intrigues and covered ops...
Nerdicus
08-23-07, 07:59 PM More likely, the only thing that resembles a grouping of dragons that any other race would know about and deal with would be those who try to actively affect the Dragon Prophecies and shape fate itself.

I think that these beings would only group together for common purpose.
Rauric
08-28-07, 08:02 PM The way I see it the Age of Demons was a threat to every dragon alive. So in my mind they would band together and help it each other beat back the fiends. In doing so a nation of sorts was formed with rules and laws that probably make sense only to dragons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rauric 08-12-07, 07:45 AM	One of my players told me there is an Embassy with representitives from the dragon continent in Sharn. I could't find this place anywhere though. Is he mistaken or did I miss it?
Bakho 08-12-07, 10:39 AM	I don't believe that the dragons of Argonnessen build embassies. They are secluded, and remain quite a mystery for most people of Khorvaire. There is a district called Dragon Towers in Sharn (that's where the embassies of the other foreign countries are, if I remember it correctly). Maybe your player mixed up Dragon Towers with Argonnessen, since that's where the other embassies are?
Dr. Benway 08-12-07, 10:40 AM	NOpe your friend is mistaken. Why would the dragons bother to talk to such inferior and short lived beings? Its like bargaining with a rhesus monkey. The dragontowers district of sharn is where the dragonmarked houses have their headquarters and 'embassies'. DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall previal?
Demangel 08-12-07, 02:23 PM	I have to agree that I don't recall hearing of any official embassy in Sharn (as in a big tower with "Embassy of the Chamber" written on). However I think to write them (the dragons) off as being disinterested and not involved in Sharn would be a major mistake as well. The Dragons are indeed much more active than that, but they prefer to work from the shadows to watch (or sometimes even help) the prophesy unfold. This indicates to me that there could indeed be a few dragons running around the city (usually in humanoid guises, or using pawns), and go to great lengths to keep their true identities secret. Clearly not all the dragons would be their on official, or even approved business, I'm sure a renegade or two might be lurking somewhere, and could be the very reason the others are there in the first place. The way I handle it, as DM I mean, I assume there is at least a dragon or two in Sharn always, indeed, my PC's have done their bidding on occasion, but they themselves don't know it. The point is, an adventuring group might be dealing with dragons, and never know it, so from their point of view, NO there are no dragons in Sharn... But alas, there are. If your really looking to incorporate dragons into your adventure, keep it true to the idea that dragons typically keep their identities and dealings as secretive as possible. If a dragon ever openly approaches anyone it's a big deal indicative of a situation of monumental importance, or peril for the party. I personally have always felt that dragons should always be dealt with in D&D (be it Eberron or FG) with a kind of reverence (they are part of the name of the game), and should never be downplayed as insignificant or mundane. When a dragon appears in my games, people are supposed to sit up straight and pay close attention because something important is about to happen that they don't want to miss. In many ways, this is more true in Eberron than any other setting precisely because of how infrequent Dragons openly reveal themselves to anyone. To sum up: 1: Dragons ARE interested in the dealings of the lesser races, at least some of them are. Especially since humanoids started developing Dragon Marks... 2: Dragons rarely reveal themselves. 3: When they do it's a big deal. The beauty of this for a DM is, you never have to reveal that there is a dragon involved until you really want or need to. So if it helps your game to make the PC's feel like dragons aren't even interested in the world beyond their own home (talk about misconception), thats fine, but don't fall into the mistake of believing it yourself...
The Dreaming Duck 08-12-07, 04:10 PM	The Dragons are indeed much more active than that, but they prefer to work from the shadows to watch (or sometimes even help) the prophesy unfold. This indicates to me that there could indeed be a few dragons running around the city (usually in humanoid guises, or using pawns), and go to great lengths to keep their true identities secret. I'll just point out that this is precisely the basis of Keith Baker's short story "Principles of Fire" (in the collection Dragons: Worlds Afire). But the story focuses on exactly that - hidden action. Certainly no open embassy. The presence of a dragon in Sharn is a big surprise to everyone involved.
Nerdicus 08-12-07, 05:04 PM	I have it in my games where the dragons are often behind much more then is let on. Taking the form of humans and common races and working their way into the trust of high powered individuals and using their superior smarts to use these people as pawns. But they work as individuals, jealously hiding their presence from all, including other dragons. But like someone before said, if one shows himself to the world, it is a huge friggen deal. I also have it where there are many many sects of dragons that wants different things for the world. But that is just how I do things.
Rauric 08-12-07, 06:53 PM	I thought so. He has a kobold who wants to get into contact with some dragons and work for them if he can. I don't mind him trying, I just have to work it into my plot, and he just needs to go about another way of doing it.
Nerdicus 08-13-07, 06:11 PM	I would think that finding the dragons would be near impossible without drawing their attention to ones self.
Darakhoranon 08-14-07, 04:23 AM	And by running around Sharn and asking "Where is the embassy of Argonessen?" he´d be doing exactly that. He´d get lots and lots of attention. From the DD, LoD, Dark Lanterns, Citadel, Aurum... Maybe (just maybe) even from the chamber...
Delfedd 08-19-07, 09:38 PM	I'd answer "In Argonessen."
Darakhoranon 08-20-07, 06:42 AM	Actually, an embassy of Argonessen IN Argonessen (that´s how I understand your answer, Delfedd) would be a bit... unusual... wouldn´t it? Of course, if there are different "dragon countries" on the continent, having an embassy of realm A in the capital of realm B would make sense...
nyysjan 08-20-07, 10:19 AM	well, dragon countries are kinda silly, most cultures band together for survival because individuals are weak, but dragons are, from the moment they hatch, more than capable of looking after themselves.
Darakhoranon 08-20-07, 03:24 PM	True - but some kind of "alliance" of dragons banding together to pool (part of) their resources to defend against common enemies/achieve common goals isn´t that unlikely. It would be more like a wizards´ guild than a "normal" country, but I don´t think it would be completely out of character for dragons to form a (relatively) far-flung alliance with others of their kind. For the most part each dragon would be on his/her own, but under certain circumstances... My main point, though, was that looking for a "dragon embassy" on Argonessen would be totally crazy. But still, to find anything even remotely resembling an embassy, you need something resembling a country...
nyysjan 08-21-07, 08:40 AM	True, nations as understood by humans would not form, as there is no need for them. But there is a lot of collective efforts going on, but unlike nations, these groups would have no geological meaning, and dragons would join and leave depending on circumstances, unlike in human nations that are rooted in place and where you are born into. Any leader among dragons would be because of personal power, experience and/or wisdom, while some respect might come from being sired/laid by some notable dragon, it is doubtfull it would translate into straight power (altough it might help you to be heard, but only that, your words would have to carry on their own merit). It is also perfectly plausible that there is somekind of overcouncil that governs all dragons (possibly filled by ancient wyrms who have taken dragon ascendant prc and are immortal and have divine rank), but acts only at the direst need (breaking of xen'drik, destruction of house vol, (mourning?) and the like)
Rauric 08-21-07, 01:04 PM	I figure the big reason there is a Dragon nation is because of the Age of Demons. That was a pretty big threat eh?
nyysjan 08-21-07, 01:53 PM	but not big enough to make a nation necessary, no need for government, no need for taxes or even laws as such, definetly no need for borders (altough anyone going into Argonessen is asking to be eaten).
Darakhoranon 08-22-07, 08:15 AM	Well, you could call it a "nation" - but since we´re talking about fire-breathing, spell-flinging flying reptiles here, most things WE see as necessary for a nation aren´t needed... It´d probably go more along the lines of "federation of more or less independent dragons who rule (relatively) small portions of Argonessen". In times of need you´d have enough of an organization to take care of your problems, while in times of peace you´d have endless potential for intrigues and covered ops...
Nerdicus 08-23-07, 07:59 PM	More likely, the only thing that resembles a grouping of dragons that any other race would know about and deal with would be those who try to actively affect the Dragon Prophecies and shape fate itself. I think that these beings would only group together for common purpose.
Rauric 08-28-07, 08:02 PM	The way I see it the Age of Demons was a threat to every dragon alive. So in my mind they would band together and help it each other beat back the fiends. In doing so a nation of sorts was formed with rules and laws that probably make sense only to dragons.