Excoriates and Other Houses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Excoriates and Other Houses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Syltorian
06-17-07, 05:25 PM Heirs of same House as an excoriate may not have any dealings with their disowned relative, and should even not be seen speaking to him. Life can thus be pretty tough for an excoriate.

But what does this mean for other houses? Is it common practice for an excoriate to be shunned by all houses, or just by the one he once belonged to? What if the houses are allied (say, how is an Orien excoriate treated by Vadalis), or feuding (how is a Lyrandar excoriate, for instance, treated by Orien)?

This may come down to why she was excoriated, I assume, but what would happen if she did something that was only a crime against one house (e.g. betraying specific house secrets, having offended someone influential)? What if he went against the guidelines of all the houses (e.g. miscegenation)? What if the house that excoriated her refuses to tell anyone else the reason?

Now, I am aware of a situation in one of the novels, which I will put into a spoiler box:

In City of Towers, Lei was forced to leave a social function of Lyrandar, but that was because her former house, Cannith was attending too. How would she have been treated, for example, if it had been a private Lyrandar function without Cannith's presence?
In essence, is there some sort of understanding amongst the houses that an excoriate is refused services at every other house, and that it would be offensive to accept her as a 'normal' person? Could there be, for instance, a favored scion of a House in the same party as an excoriate, without causing too much friction and trouble?
rabidclipper
06-17-07, 06:07 PM Just my two cents, but given that excoriation is such a serious punishment (it used to involve actually excoriating the skin with the mark from the person - usualy ending in their death, especially for those with the Syberis or Greater dragonmark...) I would say that it is a complete expulsion from 'marked society and applies interhouse. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so catastrophic as all that, because the other houses would jump on an excoriate as a potential font of information on his original house, and given how desperate and psychologically scarred the excoriate would be, they could buy him up for a relative pittance. Given that this would basically wreck the relations between all the houses, and isn't happening.... I would say that excoriation is from marked society as a whole.
Shady314
06-18-07, 04:15 AM I think Lei's case was just a matter of diplomacy. Otherwise her expulsion would have been far more vehement and would she have even bothered to try?

I see rabid's point but unless the cause of your excoriation was something severe to all houses (mixed union) the excoriation probably only extends to your former house. This is mostly a balance reason for me. It's pretty darn severe for anyone wanting to play an excoriate to be barred from the services of all 12 houses. No getting on a Lyrandar airship, Orien caravan or lightning rail, No Kundarak deposit boxes, no use of Sivis messaging stations. That's like half the fun of Eberron gone. Plus it's just going to end up seriously annoying the party.

I don't think you'd be on friendly terms with those other houses though. They're not going to be snapped up as rabid fears since there's no guarantee if you already f-ed up in one house you won't f up in another. Or you could beven be a double agent. Plus you can never actually be part of the family for obvious reasons. It'd make sense for the Code to also forbid the hiring of an excoriate by a Dragonmarked house as a concession granted to the DM houses.

So I guess in summary (my opinion) other houses can have contact with you but they aren't going to be your new best friends. Also if an excoriate decides he's just going to start blabbing everything he knows to get back at his house he's going to get a fate worse than excoriation. Maybe exsanguination.
Syltorian
06-18-07, 07:43 AM I think Lei's case was just a matter of diplomacy. Otherwise her expulsion would have been far more vehement and would she have even bothered to try?

Well, she did also try to talk to members of House Cannith, which she should not have done by those terms of excoriation we know about. It could have been simply an act of despair, though I see your point.

I see rabid's point but unless the cause of your excoriation was something severe to all houses (mixed union) the excoriation probably only extends to your former house. This is mostly a balance reason for me. It's pretty darn severe for anyone wanting to play an excoriate to be barred from the services of all 12 houses. No getting on a Lyrandar airship, Orien caravan or lightning rail, No Kundarak deposit boxes, no use of Sivis messaging stations. That's like half the fun of Eberron gone. Plus it's just going to end up seriously annoying the party.

That's perhaps the main reason why I am asking (that, and to know how far exactly the Excoriate flaw in Dragonmarked should be played out): it seems to affect the party quite a lot, if it was brought to the extreme situation of being denied all dragonmarked services.

I see both your point and that of rabidclipper. If one house sees it as important enough to excoriate someone, they might also become offended if another house continues to act as if nothing happens (with maybe some cut-backs in the friendly treatement department). But as you say, going all the way will mean the excoriate might as well try to immigrate to Sarlona or Xen'drik, since he cannot do much in Khorvaire anymore.

I don't think you'd be on friendly terms with those other houses though. They're not going to be snapped up as rabid fears since there's no guarantee if you already f-ed up in one house you won't f up in another.

I don't think rabid means that you could be given a job in that house; rather that they might simply exploit you by being a bit nice and understanding, and asking you whether you wouldn't want to strike back at the former house by telling them all you know about them. Rabid, if I understand him correctly, says that an excoriate will be suffering from stress enough to be extremely vulnerable to that kind of thing.

But that's going to be possible whether or not the excoriation is limited or all-inclusive. Phiarlan, Thuranni and Sivis, and possibly some others are good enough in secret work to proceed here without being noticed by the original house. Sivis could actually provide a completely new identity to the guy, drop him off somewhere far away (with no ties to themselves, of course), in exchange for some information.

Or you could beven be a double agent. Plus you can never actually be part of the family for obvious reasons. It'd make sense for the Code to also forbid the hiring of an excoriate by a Dragonmarked house as a concession granted to the DM houses.

That seems quite probable (and, in the case of marrying into the family, is a definite). Except perhaps in the case of a Shadow House excoriate, who might be picked up by the other, if they are really sure he isn't a plant or seeking to redeem himself in his former house.

So I guess in summary (my opinion) other houses can have contact with you but they aren't going to be your new best friends.

In other words, you will get access to their services on a coldly polite business basis, but they will mostly ignore you when it comes to purely social functions?

Also if an excoriate decides he's just going to start blabbing everything he knows to get back at his house he's going to get a fate worse than excoriation. Maybe exsanguination.

Hehe. :D If he does so in public, yes. If the other house is cunning enough to hide him, in order to get him to talk, the matter might be different. Then again, some houses will make sure that nobody ever finds out he talked...
Alaya_of_Stormhome
06-18-07, 08:02 AM This is a pretty interesting question, espcially considering that my little Lyrandar is riding a very, very perilous line between protecting one part of her famly and causing excoriation for herself and her father, brothers, and sister.
Of course, sending money on the sly to the father of your child (who is now an excoriate, though he was framed ) who happens to have your son and is hanging out with the Wind Whisperers in Lhazaar might not be the wisest option a girl had.

Personally, I don't think people in the 'marked Houses would fear excoriation all that much if it didn't mean being almost entirely cut off from 'marked society. One's reception amongst the remainder of the Twelve could definitely vary upon the offense- the difference between killing a ranking House member in a heated arguement or sending money to your House's sworn enemy (aiding and abetting, much?) and simply crossing an influential member of the House are very different things.
If you were to kill another member of the House or be a known House traitor, the general sentiment is that you would be untrustworthy, and probably not be offered any services. Most places that offered them would probably have a description out so that you could be easily identified.
On the other hand, if it is reasonably well-known ( man, word gets around the Twelve like you would not believe ) that you were cast out for a minor offense against an influential House member ( ie-not being able to keep your mouth shut about them while they're standing right behind you), then you might be able to cajole your way into recieving services from another House. You're impetuous and young as opposed to a threat.

But there has to be a real sense of being cast out of 'marked society as a whole for excoriation to be viewed as the worst punishment an heir can go through.
Cifer
06-18-07, 08:29 AM I'd guess you would be excluded from some services, but not from others. If every craftsman licensed by Cannith has to go through a list of excoriates before selling you stuff, business will be bogged down. The same applies to Orien trails and lightning rails (though you might be excluded from first class travel).
However, you would definitely not be hired by or allowed to make more than the most casual social contacts with other houses, not because they don't trust you but because they want the status quo to remain. Orien may strongly dislike Lyrandar, but hiring an excoriate means overstepping a border both have agreed on.
Edymnion
06-18-07, 08:35 AM IMO:
Being Excoriated means you lose all service of your house (no, an Orien excoriate would never be allowed on a Lightning Rail ever again), and that you get the cold shoulder from all of the other houses. Not an outright refusal of service, but a "Do your business and get out" type of thing.

To use a very un-PC comparison, just picture the excoriate as a black person in the South in the 50's, while the Dragonmarked Houses are the rich white people. They would like to throw you out on your butt, but they know that they can't, but they will still treat you like dirt. An excoriate on a lightning rail had better be prepared to sit in the back of the coach, and not be offered any refreshments.

This wouldn't extend to the rest of the party though, just that one character. Remember, excoriation is the *WORST* punishment a Dragonmarked House can hand out. It seems that many would rather be executed than be exocoriated, because at least then they would die with family pride and honor, and their families wouldn't have to deal the public shame.

So yes, it would be hard to play as an excoriate, thats the entire idea. If you can't handle not being catered to, then you don't play an excoriate. Honestly, you'd find more sympathy being an Abberant than you would an excoriate. At least with an abberant mark, you could cover it up and nobody would recognize you.
Syltorian
06-18-07, 09:48 AM This is a pretty interesting question, espcially considering that my little Lyrandar is riding a very, very perilous line between protecting one part of her famly and causing excoriation for herself and her father, brothers, and sister.

You've got a very interesting character there, Alaya!

Personally, I don't think people in the 'marked Houses would fear excoriation all that much if it didn't mean being almost entirely cut off from 'marked society. One's reception amongst the remainder of the Twelve could definitely vary upon the offense- the difference between killing a ranking House member in a heated arguement or sending money to your House's sworn enemy (aiding and abetting, much?) and simply crossing an influential member of the House are very different things.

Chance are too that influential member might be influential not only within his House, but with the Twelve at large... thus even allied Houses might be wary of having much to do with the excoriate, for fear of drawing the enmity of a person they need (and as many houses are dependant on each other's services, that could be a risk indeed).

But there has to be a real sense of being cast out of 'marked society as a whole for excoriation to be viewed as the worst punishment an heir can go through.

True. I believe I will go with Edymnion's way of playing this out. You'll be cast out from 'society', as far as that includes social functions and any treatment more than the bare, essential, 'get out as soon as you are done' kind.

He'll certainly get no good services, either, and private businesses (barristers, inquisitives, etc) will be much more likely to ignore them. I also like the idea of stripping all the services down to a bare minimum: a non-Orien excoriate can take the Lightning Rail, but doesn't get properly catered to and will have to sit in the lowest class available.

I'd guess you would be excluded from some services, but not from others. If every craftsman licensed by Cannith has to go through a list of excoriates before selling you stuff, business will be bogged down. The same applies to Orien trails and lightning rails (though you might be excluded from first class travel).

That's a good point. How does one go about finding out whether a certain person is excoriate? Does it have to say in the ID papers? Given they seem to be mostly issued, or at least certified by Sivis, that might make sense.

This would mean that you'll get to buy things from Cannith-licensed businesses (you probably don't need to show your ID when buying a kettle), but travelling with the lightning rail (where you need travelling papers, much of the time, along with your ID) would be more difficult.

Thanks for your help, everyone.
Edymnion
06-18-07, 02:11 PM It should also be remembered that he's only going to get bad treatment from those who would have a reason to know he's an excoriate. His entire house would know pretty much immediantly, and within days I'd expect his description to have circulated to the other houses (this is a rare enough punishment that someone being excoriated would be on the front page of the Dragonmarked Inquirer, if such a thing existed).

The common person on the street hawking meat pies wouldn't know any differant, but anyone directly working for a house would likely know "a tall yellow headed Orien with blue eyes got himself exocirated" and outright ask if you were him (and by the rules, you would have to answer him truthfully, or face even worse punishment from your house for lying about it, who would hunt you down like a dog once they got wind of it).
Syltorian
06-19-07, 04:52 AM The common person on the street hawking meat pies wouldn't know any differant, but anyone directly working for a house would likely know "a tall yellow headed Orien with blue eyes got himself exocirated" and outright ask if you were him (and by the rules, you would have to answer him truthfully, or face even worse punishment from your house for lying about it, who would hunt you down like a dog once they got wind of it).

That sounds like a reasonable way of doing this. I'm wondering though, how much alike members of the same dragonmarked house (or at least, of the same line within one) look. Would the 'tall, yellow-headed Orien with blue eyes', about as detailed a description you can get without handing out portraits, not apply to 3/4 of the house?

I'm mostly going on some loose evidence here, namely that they are after all related (though not everyone in the same family looks alike, there are some traits, such as the Vowns red hair). Of course, if he has a scar, a tattoo, a special mark of a kind, that'd work.

Personally, I found Dragon Magazine's Mark of the Gypsies spell (can't remember the issue) to be useful. One of its uses is that it creates a mark that only those of the same family unit can see, to make sure everybody within the same House at least, even those on the other side of the continent, recognise the excoriate on sight.
Edymnion
06-19-07, 08:33 AM Of course, depending on how bad the crime was that got you excoriated, its always possible that each house has an item capable of casting Gaeas on the excoriate to make them say up front that they have been excoriated when dealing with any dragonmarked house or individual.

Dragonmarked version of the Scarlette Letter.
Alaya_of_Stormhome
06-19-07, 02:05 PM Of course, depending on how bad the crime was that got you excoriated, its always possible that each house has an item capable of casting Gaeas on the excoriate to make them say up front that they have been excoriated when dealing with any dragonmarked house or individual.

Dragonmarked version of the Scarlette Letter.

Congratulations, Edy. I think you just managed to make excoriation even more cruel and unusual than it already was.:blink:

Like I said before, the reception of any excoriate anywhere depends largely upon the crime. Look at Prince Brightwind in Orthoss- excoriate with a price on his head (for stealing an airship to prove his loyalty to the Lhazaar pirates) who made a deal with the Thuranni to save it and is now the head of a group that's pretty much #1 on the Lyrandar public enemy list.
Wizardman
06-21-07, 06:44 PM I think that the reception an excoriate gets depends upon the circmstances. I'm inclined to think that other Houses will (very privately) cut the excoriate a break if it is generally understood that this particular person is only an excoriate for political reasons. The existence of House Thuranni is proof of this; if the other Houses refused to acknowledge it, it would have to operate as an underground assassin's guild. Instead, the Thurannis have enclaves throughout Khorvaire and a place at the Twelve.

Of course, if one assumes that House Phiarlan was complicit in getting the Thurannis set up in the first place, it is conceivable that they bribed/blackmailed the others into going along with it.

(Well, they would have had to ask the Sivis very, very nicely, and throw in quite a few tokens of their esteem. Espionage may be an artform to the elves, but it is as natural as breathing to the gnomes)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Syltorian 06-17-07, 05:25 PM	Heirs of same House as an excoriate may not have any dealings with their disowned relative, and should even not be seen speaking to him. Life can thus be pretty tough for an excoriate. But what does this mean for other houses? Is it common practice for an excoriate to be shunned by all houses, or just by the one he once belonged to? What if the houses are allied (say, how is an Orien excoriate treated by Vadalis), or feuding (how is a Lyrandar excoriate, for instance, treated by Orien)? This may come down to why she was excoriated, I assume, but what would happen if she did something that was only a crime against one house (e.g. betraying specific house secrets, having offended someone influential)? What if he went against the guidelines of all the houses (e.g. miscegenation)? What if the house that excoriated her refuses to tell anyone else the reason? Now, I am aware of a situation in one of the novels, which I will put into a spoiler box: In City of Towers, Lei was forced to leave a social function of Lyrandar, but that was because her former house, Cannith was attending too. How would she have been treated, for example, if it had been a private Lyrandar function without Cannith's presence? In essence, is there some sort of understanding amongst the houses that an excoriate is refused services at every other house, and that it would be offensive to accept her as a 'normal' person? Could there be, for instance, a favored scion of a House in the same party as an excoriate, without causing too much friction and trouble?
rabidclipper 06-17-07, 06:07 PM	Just my two cents, but given that excoriation is such a serious punishment (it used to involve actually excoriating the skin with the mark from the person - usualy ending in their death, especially for those with the Syberis or Greater dragonmark...) I would say that it is a complete expulsion from 'marked society and applies interhouse. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so catastrophic as all that, because the other houses would jump on an excoriate as a potential font of information on his original house, and given how desperate and psychologically scarred the excoriate would be, they could buy him up for a relative pittance. Given that this would basically wreck the relations between all the houses, and isn't happening.... I would say that excoriation is from marked society as a whole.
Shady314 06-18-07, 04:15 AM	I think Lei's case was just a matter of diplomacy. Otherwise her expulsion would have been far more vehement and would she have even bothered to try? I see rabid's point but unless the cause of your excoriation was something severe to all houses (mixed union) the excoriation probably only extends to your former house. This is mostly a balance reason for me. It's pretty darn severe for anyone wanting to play an excoriate to be barred from the services of all 12 houses. No getting on a Lyrandar airship, Orien caravan or lightning rail, No Kundarak deposit boxes, no use of Sivis messaging stations. That's like half the fun of Eberron gone. Plus it's just going to end up seriously annoying the party. I don't think you'd be on friendly terms with those other houses though. They're not going to be snapped up as rabid fears since there's no guarantee if you already f-ed up in one house you won't f up in another. Or you could beven be a double agent. Plus you can never actually be part of the family for obvious reasons. It'd make sense for the Code to also forbid the hiring of an excoriate by a Dragonmarked house as a concession granted to the DM houses. So I guess in summary (my opinion) other houses can have contact with you but they aren't going to be your new best friends. Also if an excoriate decides he's just going to start blabbing everything he knows to get back at his house he's going to get a fate worse than excoriation. Maybe exsanguination.
Syltorian 06-18-07, 07:43 AM	I think Lei's case was just a matter of diplomacy. Otherwise her expulsion would have been far more vehement and would she have even bothered to try? Well, she did also try to talk to members of House Cannith, which she should not have done by those terms of excoriation we know about. It could have been simply an act of despair, though I see your point. I see rabid's point but unless the cause of your excoriation was something severe to all houses (mixed union) the excoriation probably only extends to your former house. This is mostly a balance reason for me. It's pretty darn severe for anyone wanting to play an excoriate to be barred from the services of all 12 houses. No getting on a Lyrandar airship, Orien caravan or lightning rail, No Kundarak deposit boxes, no use of Sivis messaging stations. That's like half the fun of Eberron gone. Plus it's just going to end up seriously annoying the party. That's perhaps the main reason why I am asking (that, and to know how far exactly the Excoriate flaw in Dragonmarked should be played out): it seems to affect the party quite a lot, if it was brought to the extreme situation of being denied all dragonmarked services. I see both your point and that of rabidclipper. If one house sees it as important enough to excoriate someone, they might also become offended if another house continues to act as if nothing happens (with maybe some cut-backs in the friendly treatement department). But as you say, going all the way will mean the excoriate might as well try to immigrate to Sarlona or Xen'drik, since he cannot do much in Khorvaire anymore. I don't think you'd be on friendly terms with those other houses though. They're not going to be snapped up as rabid fears since there's no guarantee if you already f-ed up in one house you won't f up in another. I don't think rabid means that you could be given a job in that house; rather that they might simply exploit you by being a bit nice and understanding, and asking you whether you wouldn't want to strike back at the former house by telling them all you know about them. Rabid, if I understand him correctly, says that an excoriate will be suffering from stress enough to be extremely vulnerable to that kind of thing. But that's going to be possible whether or not the excoriation is limited or all-inclusive. Phiarlan, Thuranni and Sivis, and possibly some others are good enough in secret work to proceed here without being noticed by the original house. Sivis could actually provide a completely new identity to the guy, drop him off somewhere far away (with no ties to themselves, of course), in exchange for some information. Or you could beven be a double agent. Plus you can never actually be part of the family for obvious reasons. It'd make sense for the Code to also forbid the hiring of an excoriate by a Dragonmarked house as a concession granted to the DM houses. That seems quite probable (and, in the case of marrying into the family, is a definite). Except perhaps in the case of a Shadow House excoriate, who might be picked up by the other, if they are really sure he isn't a plant or seeking to redeem himself in his former house. So I guess in summary (my opinion) other houses can have contact with you but they aren't going to be your new best friends. In other words, you will get access to their services on a coldly polite business basis, but they will mostly ignore you when it comes to purely social functions? Also if an excoriate decides he's just going to start blabbing everything he knows to get back at his house he's going to get a fate worse than excoriation. Maybe exsanguination. Hehe. :D If he does so in public, yes. If the other house is cunning enough to hide him, in order to get him to talk, the matter might be different. Then again, some houses will make sure that nobody ever finds out he talked...
Alaya_of_Stormhome 06-18-07, 08:02 AM	This is a pretty interesting question, espcially considering that my little Lyrandar is riding a very, very perilous line between protecting one part of her famly and causing excoriation for herself and her father, brothers, and sister. Of course, sending money on the sly to the father of your child (who is now an excoriate, though he was framed ) who happens to have your son and is hanging out with the Wind Whisperers in Lhazaar might not be the wisest option a girl had. Personally, I don't think people in the 'marked Houses would fear excoriation all that much if it didn't mean being almost entirely cut off from 'marked society. One's reception amongst the remainder of the Twelve could definitely vary upon the offense- the difference between killing a ranking House member in a heated arguement or sending money to your House's sworn enemy (aiding and abetting, much?) and simply crossing an influential member of the House are very different things. If you were to kill another member of the House or be a known House traitor, the general sentiment is that you would be untrustworthy, and probably not be offered any services. Most places that offered them would probably have a description out so that you could be easily identified. On the other hand, if it is reasonably well-known ( man, word gets around the Twelve like you would not believe ) that you were cast out for a minor offense against an influential House member ( ie-not being able to keep your mouth shut about them while they're standing right behind you), then you might be able to cajole your way into recieving services from another House. You're impetuous and young as opposed to a threat. But there has to be a real sense of being cast out of 'marked society as a whole for excoriation to be viewed as the worst punishment an heir can go through.
Cifer 06-18-07, 08:29 AM	I'd guess you would be excluded from some services, but not from others. If every craftsman licensed by Cannith has to go through a list of excoriates before selling you stuff, business will be bogged down. The same applies to Orien trails and lightning rails (though you might be excluded from first class travel). However, you would definitely not be hired by or allowed to make more than the most casual social contacts with other houses, not because they don't trust you but because they want the status quo to remain. Orien may strongly dislike Lyrandar, but hiring an excoriate means overstepping a border both have agreed on.
Edymnion 06-18-07, 08:35 AM	IMO: Being Excoriated means you lose all service of your house (no, an Orien excoriate would never be allowed on a Lightning Rail ever again), and that you get the cold shoulder from all of the other houses. Not an outright refusal of service, but a "Do your business and get out" type of thing. To use a very un-PC comparison, just picture the excoriate as a black person in the South in the 50's, while the Dragonmarked Houses are the rich white people. They would like to throw you out on your butt, but they know that they can't, but they will still treat you like dirt. An excoriate on a lightning rail had better be prepared to sit in the back of the coach, and not be offered any refreshments. This wouldn't extend to the rest of the party though, just that one character. Remember, excoriation is the WORST punishment a Dragonmarked House can hand out. It seems that many would rather be executed than be exocoriated, because at least then they would die with family pride and honor, and their families wouldn't have to deal the public shame. So yes, it would be hard to play as an excoriate, thats the entire idea. If you can't handle not being catered to, then you don't play an excoriate. Honestly, you'd find more sympathy being an Abberant than you would an excoriate. At least with an abberant mark, you could cover it up and nobody would recognize you.
Syltorian 06-18-07, 09:48 AM	This is a pretty interesting question, espcially considering that my little Lyrandar is riding a very, very perilous line between protecting one part of her famly and causing excoriation for herself and her father, brothers, and sister. You've got a very interesting character there, Alaya! Personally, I don't think people in the 'marked Houses would fear excoriation all that much if it didn't mean being almost entirely cut off from 'marked society. One's reception amongst the remainder of the Twelve could definitely vary upon the offense- the difference between killing a ranking House member in a heated arguement or sending money to your House's sworn enemy (aiding and abetting, much?) and simply crossing an influential member of the House are very different things. Chance are too that influential member might be influential not only within his House, but with the Twelve at large... thus even allied Houses might be wary of having much to do with the excoriate, for fear of drawing the enmity of a person they need (and as many houses are dependant on each other's services, that could be a risk indeed). But there has to be a real sense of being cast out of 'marked society as a whole for excoriation to be viewed as the worst punishment an heir can go through. True. I believe I will go with Edymnion's way of playing this out. You'll be cast out from 'society', as far as that includes social functions and any treatment more than the bare, essential, 'get out as soon as you are done' kind. He'll certainly get no good services, either, and private businesses (barristers, inquisitives, etc) will be much more likely to ignore them. I also like the idea of stripping all the services down to a bare minimum: a non-Orien excoriate can take the Lightning Rail, but doesn't get properly catered to and will have to sit in the lowest class available. I'd guess you would be excluded from some services, but not from others. If every craftsman licensed by Cannith has to go through a list of excoriates before selling you stuff, business will be bogged down. The same applies to Orien trails and lightning rails (though you might be excluded from first class travel). That's a good point. How does one go about finding out whether a certain person is excoriate? Does it have to say in the ID papers? Given they seem to be mostly issued, or at least certified by Sivis, that might make sense. This would mean that you'll get to buy things from Cannith-licensed businesses (you probably don't need to show your ID when buying a kettle), but travelling with the lightning rail (where you need travelling papers, much of the time, along with your ID) would be more difficult. Thanks for your help, everyone.
Edymnion 06-18-07, 02:11 PM	It should also be remembered that he's only going to get bad treatment from those who would have a reason to know he's an excoriate. His entire house would know pretty much immediantly, and within days I'd expect his description to have circulated to the other houses (this is a rare enough punishment that someone being excoriated would be on the front page of the Dragonmarked Inquirer, if such a thing existed). The common person on the street hawking meat pies wouldn't know any differant, but anyone directly working for a house would likely know "a tall yellow headed Orien with blue eyes got himself exocirated" and outright ask if you were him (and by the rules, you would have to answer him truthfully, or face even worse punishment from your house for lying about it, who would hunt you down like a dog once they got wind of it).
Syltorian 06-19-07, 04:52 AM	The common person on the street hawking meat pies wouldn't know any differant, but anyone directly working for a house would likely know "a tall yellow headed Orien with blue eyes got himself exocirated" and outright ask if you were him (and by the rules, you would have to answer him truthfully, or face even worse punishment from your house for lying about it, who would hunt you down like a dog once they got wind of it). That sounds like a reasonable way of doing this. I'm wondering though, how much alike members of the same dragonmarked house (or at least, of the same line within one) look. Would the 'tall, yellow-headed Orien with blue eyes', about as detailed a description you can get without handing out portraits, not apply to 3/4 of the house? I'm mostly going on some loose evidence here, namely that they are after all related (though not everyone in the same family looks alike, there are some traits, such as the Vowns red hair). Of course, if he has a scar, a tattoo, a special mark of a kind, that'd work. Personally, I found Dragon Magazine's Mark of the Gypsies spell (can't remember the issue) to be useful. One of its uses is that it creates a mark that only those of the same family unit can see, to make sure everybody within the same House at least, even those on the other side of the continent, recognise the excoriate on sight.
Edymnion 06-19-07, 08:33 AM	Of course, depending on how bad the crime was that got you excoriated, its always possible that each house has an item capable of casting Gaeas on the excoriate to make them say up front that they have been excoriated when dealing with any dragonmarked house or individual. Dragonmarked version of the Scarlette Letter.
Alaya_of_Stormhome 06-19-07, 02:05 PM	Of course, depending on how bad the crime was that got you excoriated, its always possible that each house has an item capable of casting Gaeas on the excoriate to make them say up front that they have been excoriated when dealing with any dragonmarked house or individual. Dragonmarked version of the Scarlette Letter. Congratulations, Edy. I think you just managed to make excoriation even more cruel and unusual than it already was.:blink: Like I said before, the reception of any excoriate anywhere depends largely upon the crime. Look at Prince Brightwind in Orthoss- excoriate with a price on his head (for stealing an airship to prove his loyalty to the Lhazaar pirates) who made a deal with the Thuranni to save it and is now the head of a group that's pretty much #1 on the Lyrandar public enemy list.
Wizardman 06-21-07, 06:44 PM	I think that the reception an excoriate gets depends upon the circmstances. I'm inclined to think that other Houses will (very privately) cut the excoriate a break if it is generally understood that this particular person is only an excoriate for political reasons. The existence of House Thuranni is proof of this; if the other Houses refused to acknowledge it, it would have to operate as an underground assassin's guild. Instead, the Thurannis have enclaves throughout Khorvaire and a place at the Twelve. Of course, if one assumes that House Phiarlan was complicit in getting the Thurannis set up in the first place, it is conceivable that they bribed/blackmailed the others into going along with it. (Well, they would have had to ask the Sivis very, very nicely, and throw in quite a few tokens of their esteem. Espionage may be an artform to the elves, but it is as natural as breathing to the gnomes)