Excoriation Causes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Excoriation Causes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Syltorian
02-27-08, 02:05 PM I have been toying around with the concept of excoriation, but I am running out of interesting, varied ideas for actions that lead to this punishment beyond the obvious ones. So I would like to ask people to help me brainstorm, or comment on the ideas I already got. I will keep the list below updated with suggestions from the thread (giving credit, of course).

Also, note that some of these crimes only lead to excoriation if the matter becomes public, and the house needs to sacrifice the heir under pressure or to prove the crime was not sanctioned by the House. An Orien heir teleporting into Riedra or a Cannith heir defying the treaty of Thronehold and creating warforged can do so, but if he is discovered, the House will deny all knowledge and proceed to sacrifice the heir to outside pressure and public sentiment.

The following list starts with crimes that all the houses will punish with excoriation, but I am more interested in the opportunities for crime arising in specific houses.

(N.b. At this point, the list is the result of simple brainstorming, and some points might be off - please tell me if you think there is a problem. And thanks for any further suggestions and crime ideas).

All Houses
Selling trade secrets. Murder (or planned murder) of house-members. Actively working to harm the House; sabotage. Sabotaging another House/nation (no penalty is attached for Vadalis heirs openly working against Valenar), mostly due to pressure. Association with secret services of various nations, unless on an official mission (i.e., no double agents). Association with factions opposed to the House [from anecdote by BlackDragon71425] (except for infiltration; simple rivals do not count). Diverting House resources for personal aims. Association with a crime large and public enough not to be ignored [from anecdote by BlackDragon71425].

Cannith
Creating warforged. This is not considered a crime outside the Thronehold nations. Causing casualties through flawed construction or items (e.g. badly constructed bridge), where the flaws were known before and left in to save money, speed construction, or anything else not due to simple error. Includes the selling of cursed items.

Deneith
Unnecessarily sending mercenaries or soldiers under your orders to death. Any abuse of the powers and privileges of a Sentinal Marshal

Ghallanda
Possession of poison without special permission.

Jorasco
Repeated healing for free. Causing disease or working to spread the same. Giving advice on or assisting suicide (could be debated whether the Hippocratic Oath should be used). Accepting bribes to refuse a treatment of a third party. Intentional misdiagnosis. Repeated abuse of the privileges of healers in war (i.e. not to be targeted). Experimentation on sentient creatures.

Kundarak
Selling or passing on information about a client's defensive systems to a third party. Misuse of money placed in the bank. Openly siding with one of the clans over another.

Lyrandar
Smuggling beyond a certain scale. (Below this scale, other punishments are given) Air-piracy (privateers are allowed).

Medani
Selling access to a person under one's guard (i.e. asking bribes to arrange audiences). Excessive negligence in protecting a ward, ignoring known threats. Failing to pass on major pieces of information if they could have avoided casualties, provided this outcome could have been foreseen. Deliberately lowering one's guard or letting criminals reach ward.

Orien
Violating privacy of mail. Abuse of Mark of Passage for burglary. Teleportation into Riedra.

Phiarlan
Using a Heritage Performance without permission (see Dragonshard) Keeping ties to members of Thuranni (who are considered excoriates). Knowingly upsetting the balance of powers.

Sivis
Misuse of a Pen of Living Parchment (S:CoT). Sale of blank notarised documents. Sale of private information entrusted to heir, e.g. on a Speaking Stone, to a third party.

Tharashk
Sale or distribution of corrupted dragonshards.

Thuranni
Not killing a surviving member of the Paelion line where they are met and known

Vadalis (least likely to pronounce this judgement, due to extreme value placed on family ties).
Association with the Ashbound or the Children of Winter. Gross mistreatment of animals or magical beasts. Replicating forbidden experiments (e.g. that swarm in one of the adventures, whose name I cannot remember). Gross negligence of guarding animals/magical beasts leading to casualties amongst people. Knowingly destroying or harming an ecosystem.[
Gurv
02-28-08, 08:24 PM Well. I was going to respond with some ideas. But you got all of the ones I had and a lot that I didn't think of.

I think what most people fail to remember is that excoriation isn't something that the houses use when crimes are committed. It is reserved for when a member does something that directly impedes or sets back the goals of the house. Someone could be excoriated after committing a crime that severely embarrasses the house, but the excoriation isn't for committing the crime- it's for the embarrassment to the house.

Of course, the houses are smart enough to know that criminals are ultimately caught, so they may take preemptive measures when they know a member is involved in something that could potentially cause a PR nightmare.
BlackDragon71425
02-28-08, 09:57 PM My PC's benefactor is a young House Tharashk heir with the Lesser mark. He is trying to start his own museum. We have a House Tarkanon member, unmarked, in the party. His affiliation was known, but the benefactor chose to ignore it, as long as he obeys orders. Well, long story short, the house Tarkanon member robbed the Aurum in the Mror holds, of 200,000GP. Sine he was affiliated with the Tharashk member , House Tharashk excoriated the benefactor on the grounds that he was cooperating with Tarkanon and that four of the PC's under his employ robbed the Aurum. They also gave their benefactor a cut of the money without his knowing where it came from.

Welp, thats my submission.
Syltorian
02-29-08, 07:01 AM Well. I was going to respond with some ideas. But you got all of the ones I had and a lot that I didn't think of.

Thanks! I was not aware my ideas had been so exhaustive. :)

Still, I am sure I must have missed plenty.

I think what most people fail to remember is that excoriation isn't something that the houses use when crimes are committed. It is reserved for when a member does something that directly impedes or sets back the goals of the house. Someone could be excoriated after committing a crime that severely embarrasses the house, but the excoriation isn't for committing the crime- it's for the embarrassment to the house.

I would make a difference between crimes committed outside the house, crimes committed in connection with house business, and crimes committed within the house itself.

The first category will most likely only be punished by excoriation if they are discovered, and the House is pressured (or risks losing its image) from the outside. This includes the Orien heir teleporting into Riedra, the Lyrandar heir sabotaging the rebuilding of the White Arch Bridge, or the Deneith heir who gets into a duel (a member of Aurala's family was exiled for that) and kills his aristocratic opponent. This would be what you call "PR nightmare" in your post.

Here excoriation would be, to a certain extend, akin to extradition. You're denying the house heir the sanctuary of the enclave, and whatever crime he has committed outside, he'll have to answer for without being able to hide out in extra-territorial House property.

As an aside - what if the heir working under orders of the House? I wonder whether there is such a thing as "false excoriation", e.g. you excoriate someone, then they disappear and make a new life in Stormreach or Q'Barra, or you really make it worth their while unless they are fanatic supporters of the House ready for anything. Any way of circumventing this will be known to other Houses, however, if this is a tradition... Orien might not be happy with such a show if Lyrandar heirs are discovered sabotaging an important project.

The second category, crimes committed in connection to House business might be less serious - a Medani selling access to a person he guards, an Orien violating postal privacy - but that make people wary of using House businesses. So they fit your own criterion of running against the interests of the House.

The third category would include crimes such as seeking advancement by poisoning your superior. This does not necessarily harm the House as such, but parricide is never a good thing. Here, I assume crimes need to be really severe though, to warrant excoriation. Skimming one gold piece each week of a multiple-thousand a month research project will get you fined, imprisoned and demoted, rather than excoriated. Unless your viceroys really do not like you. Naturally, such 'crimes' are everyday fare in House Sivis.

Lastly, I was wondering whether there such a thing as temporary excoriation. Since excoriation is similar to exile, and some cultures put a time-limit on the exile, could this happen with dragonmarked Houses too? That is, putting the time limit there at the moment of the sentence, not considering ten years later to rescind the penalty. Although this would make the penalty far less horrifying, so I would not really want to go with this.

My PC's benefactor is a young House Tharashk heir with the Lesser mark. He is trying to start his own museum. We have a House Tarkanon member, unmarked, in the party. His affiliation was known, but the benefactor chose to ignore it, as long as he obeys orders. Well, long story short, the house Tarkanon member robbed the Aurum in the Mror holds, of 200,000GP. Sine he was affiliated with the Tharashk member , House Tharashk excoriated the benefactor on the grounds that he was cooperating with Tarkanon and that four of the PC's under his employ robbed the Aurum. They also gave their benefactor a cut of the money without his knowing where it came from.

That's a great story, Black Dragon. If they actually gave their benefactor a cut of the money after a robbery, an investigation into excoriation would be warranted even without a Tarkanon member on the team. Association with Tarkanon, whose main goal is to get revenge on the Houses, would also be a good ground for excoriation without anything else happening. Thanks for the submission. I'll edit the list. :)
DrunkMonk
03-02-08, 02:22 AM I dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I am pretty sure that becasue of the dangers in mixing bloodlines, no hanky panky between different house members.

We had a situation like this come up in one of our games and it sidetracked us for a long time.

dm
Syltorian
03-02-08, 06:42 AM I dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I am pretty sure that becasue of the dangers in mixing bloodlines, no hanky panky between different house members.

I thought about that, until I reread the section on Excoriation in Dragonmarked. It mentions specifically that such 'dalliances', as it calls it, were grounds for excoriation in the past, but also that they no longer are. They remain a taboo, but not a serious enough crime.

This seems to fit in with Dragonmarked's presentation of aberrant marks as not being much of a social stigma any longer.

Personally, I disagree with this. It takes away much of the aberrant marks. I would like to see inter-house affairs as a cause for excoriation - as I would rule that anyone but Ghallanda excoriates a member who develops an aberrant mark - but the 'canon' contradicts me officially, so that would be houserule.
DrunkMonk
03-02-08, 06:35 PM Sylorian,

I must have missed that when I looked at our GMs copy of Dragonmarked. I will have to try and reread that section. I agree with you about how the houses should view "dalliances".

DM
The Fireballed Mage
03-02-08, 08:27 PM Some nice work here. Good hooks for games.

I would like to see inter-house affairs as a cause for excoriation - as I would rule that anyone but Ghallanda excoriates a member who develops an aberrant mark - but the 'canon' contradicts me officially, so that would be houserule.

For me and my campaigns, inter-House romances are one of those dirty little secretes that publicly all the Houses are against... all the while the powerful shamelessly conducting them in the shadows.

The way I see it, if you're a high up member of your House you're rich, powerful, focused, determined, and generally self-assured to the point of arrogance. You're also most likely married off to someone to whom they think you will breed a new generation of Dragonmarked scions with... but that doesn't mean you care one whit for your spouse as a person.

Rich, powerful, arrogant, and in a loveless marriage... I see these types as looking for passion. Dangerous passion, the thrill of the forbidden fruit, of dancing along the razor's edge. What else would get the blood pumping like seducing --or being seduced-- by a member of another House?

It's shocking! Scandalous! It is the very taboo of it itself that inflames your senses and drives thunderous passions that draw you to this other person. It may be for true love --or just love of the thrill-- but when you are with this person you feel alive.

And of course, being generally arrogant, you don't believe you could ever get caught or a child could be the result of such dalliance... but all too often...

So while the Houses publicly decry such mixing... it is often a case of "Don't ask, don't tell" and "Do what I say, not what I do."
Syltorian
03-03-08, 02:31 PM That's a great take on the issue of mixing amongst the Houses, Fireballed Mage! It would also fit the closer-tied Houses, such as Orien and Vadalis (if I recall correctly, you mentioned that in your excellent review of the Houses - while we are at that, I am sure you have some good ideas for excoriations!). Beyond the mixing with other Houses because you are looking for passion or simply because of the attraction of the forbidden, I would also see the Houses reacting quite differently to this (at least, ideologically, if not in practice).

Ghallanda accepts aberrant marked members, so they won't have problems with mixed marks. There might be some half-Jorasco amongst them; but that is the only House Ghallanda could mix with.

Medani was forced to become a 'traditional' House in the War of the Mark, dislikes authority, and embraces the multi-racial heritage of the Khoravar, so they might be another candidate to close both eyes over such actions. They are security guys, however, so they might be wary of the supposedly labile character of the aberrant-marked.

Vadalis I could likewise see as ignoring the entire tradition. They are breeders and maybe concerned about lineages, but they are the least political - thus the most likely to marry for love, not politics - and love their family too much to punish them a lot. IMC, being excoriated by Vadalis is quite an achievement. They also have different traditions and are the odd-one-out nobody else really understands. They'd probably just shrug their shoulders and deposit their heirs in the Eldeen Reaches where no-one will find out.

Tharashk is a new house, found long after the War of the Mark, so they do not have that tradition. The are also quite accepting of other races. They deal with creatures everyone else considers monsters. Part of it is even dedicated to the Dragon Below.

Other Houses I could still see as reacting violently to their members having dalliances with other heirs.

Lyrandar is dedicated to racial purity with some fanaticism. The problem is not simply that you had a dalliance with a Heir of Deneith. You also had one with a human. Horrible!

Cannith and Deneith were a driving force behind the War of the Mark, and tend to be rather arrogant and proud. They are, however, by the same rule the most likely candidates for spurning a wife you never wanted and going elsewhere for love. .

For Kundarak and Sivis, there does not seem to be much of a problem. AFAIK, there is no compatibility between dwarves/gnomes and other dragonmarked races. Sivis is quite likely to try things like this just to see if they can get away with it, though: it's all part of the game.

The other houses - Phiarlan, Thuranni, Jorasco seem to be in the middle-ground. The elven Houses could accept it as part of infiltration other Houses, and Thuranni is the most eager to explore the Prophecy, and aberrant marks seem to be part of it.

Still, beyond your concept, I also like the less realistic Romeo and Juliet aspects of the story, the Lyrandar and the Orien heir desperately in love with each other, despite the taboos and the clandestine trade war between the Houses, the political manoeuvring within the House (trying to remove a rival or superior by discovering his dark secret), even if it will get him demoted or discredited rather than excoriated.

But overall, I like the idea that it is mostly theory, and that in practice the thrill of the forbidden and the search for passion lead to illicit relationships behind the scenes. Scandal can be a fascinating thing in some circles. Hm. I wonder whether abortion is legal under the Code of Galifar... or do you have to find an excoriated Jorasco (or do the House of Healing a big favour for keeping their mouths shut and committing an illegal act) if what wasn't supposed to happen does happen.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Syltorian 02-27-08, 02:05 PM	I have been toying around with the concept of excoriation, but I am running out of interesting, varied ideas for actions that lead to this punishment beyond the obvious ones. So I would like to ask people to help me brainstorm, or comment on the ideas I already got. I will keep the list below updated with suggestions from the thread (giving credit, of course). Also, note that some of these crimes only lead to excoriation if the matter becomes public, and the house needs to sacrifice the heir under pressure or to prove the crime was not sanctioned by the House. An Orien heir teleporting into Riedra or a Cannith heir defying the treaty of Thronehold and creating warforged can do so, but if he is discovered, the House will deny all knowledge and proceed to sacrifice the heir to outside pressure and public sentiment. The following list starts with crimes that all the houses will punish with excoriation, but I am more interested in the opportunities for crime arising in specific houses. (N.b. At this point, the list is the result of simple brainstorming, and some points might be off - please tell me if you think there is a problem. And thanks for any further suggestions and crime ideas). All Houses Selling trade secrets. Murder (or planned murder) of house-members. Actively working to harm the House; sabotage. Sabotaging another House/nation (no penalty is attached for Vadalis heirs openly working against Valenar), mostly due to pressure. Association with secret services of various nations, unless on an official mission (i.e., no double agents). Association with factions opposed to the House [from anecdote by BlackDragon71425] (except for infiltration; simple rivals do not count). Diverting House resources for personal aims. Association with a crime large and public enough not to be ignored [from anecdote by BlackDragon71425]. Cannith Creating warforged. This is not considered a crime outside the Thronehold nations. Causing casualties through flawed construction or items (e.g. badly constructed bridge), where the flaws were known before and left in to save money, speed construction, or anything else not due to simple error. Includes the selling of cursed items. Deneith Unnecessarily sending mercenaries or soldiers under your orders to death. Any abuse of the powers and privileges of a Sentinal Marshal Ghallanda Possession of poison without special permission. Jorasco Repeated healing for free. Causing disease or working to spread the same. Giving advice on or assisting suicide (could be debated whether the Hippocratic Oath should be used). Accepting bribes to refuse a treatment of a third party. Intentional misdiagnosis. Repeated abuse of the privileges of healers in war (i.e. not to be targeted). Experimentation on sentient creatures. Kundarak Selling or passing on information about a client's defensive systems to a third party. Misuse of money placed in the bank. Openly siding with one of the clans over another. Lyrandar Smuggling beyond a certain scale. (Below this scale, other punishments are given) Air-piracy (privateers are allowed). Medani Selling access to a person under one's guard (i.e. asking bribes to arrange audiences). Excessive negligence in protecting a ward, ignoring known threats. Failing to pass on major pieces of information if they could have avoided casualties, provided this outcome could have been foreseen. Deliberately lowering one's guard or letting criminals reach ward. Orien Violating privacy of mail. Abuse of Mark of Passage for burglary. Teleportation into Riedra. Phiarlan Using a Heritage Performance without permission (see Dragonshard) Keeping ties to members of Thuranni (who are considered excoriates). Knowingly upsetting the balance of powers. Sivis Misuse of a Pen of Living Parchment (S:CoT). Sale of blank notarised documents. Sale of private information entrusted to heir, e.g. on a Speaking Stone, to a third party. Tharashk Sale or distribution of corrupted dragonshards. Thuranni Not killing a surviving member of the Paelion line where they are met and known Vadalis (least likely to pronounce this judgement, due to extreme value placed on family ties). Association with the Ashbound or the Children of Winter. Gross mistreatment of animals or magical beasts. Replicating forbidden experiments (e.g. that swarm in one of the adventures, whose name I cannot remember). Gross negligence of guarding animals/magical beasts leading to casualties amongst people. Knowingly destroying or harming an ecosystem.[
Gurv 02-28-08, 08:24 PM	Well. I was going to respond with some ideas. But you got all of the ones I had and a lot that I didn't think of. I think what most people fail to remember is that excoriation isn't something that the houses use when crimes are committed. It is reserved for when a member does something that directly impedes or sets back the goals of the house. Someone could be excoriated after committing a crime that severely embarrasses the house, but the excoriation isn't for committing the crime- it's for the embarrassment to the house. Of course, the houses are smart enough to know that criminals are ultimately caught, so they may take preemptive measures when they know a member is involved in something that could potentially cause a PR nightmare.
BlackDragon71425 02-28-08, 09:57 PM	My PC's benefactor is a young House Tharashk heir with the Lesser mark. He is trying to start his own museum. We have a House Tarkanon member, unmarked, in the party. His affiliation was known, but the benefactor chose to ignore it, as long as he obeys orders. Well, long story short, the house Tarkanon member robbed the Aurum in the Mror holds, of 200,000GP. Sine he was affiliated with the Tharashk member , House Tharashk excoriated the benefactor on the grounds that he was cooperating with Tarkanon and that four of the PC's under his employ robbed the Aurum. They also gave their benefactor a cut of the money without his knowing where it came from. Welp, thats my submission.
Syltorian 02-29-08, 07:01 AM	Well. I was going to respond with some ideas. But you got all of the ones I had and a lot that I didn't think of. Thanks! I was not aware my ideas had been so exhaustive. :) Still, I am sure I must have missed plenty. I think what most people fail to remember is that excoriation isn't something that the houses use when crimes are committed. It is reserved for when a member does something that directly impedes or sets back the goals of the house. Someone could be excoriated after committing a crime that severely embarrasses the house, but the excoriation isn't for committing the crime- it's for the embarrassment to the house. I would make a difference between crimes committed outside the house, crimes committed in connection with house business, and crimes committed within the house itself. The first category will most likely only be punished by excoriation if they are discovered, and the House is pressured (or risks losing its image) from the outside. This includes the Orien heir teleporting into Riedra, the Lyrandar heir sabotaging the rebuilding of the White Arch Bridge, or the Deneith heir who gets into a duel (a member of Aurala's family was exiled for that) and kills his aristocratic opponent. This would be what you call "PR nightmare" in your post. Here excoriation would be, to a certain extend, akin to extradition. You're denying the house heir the sanctuary of the enclave, and whatever crime he has committed outside, he'll have to answer for without being able to hide out in extra-territorial House property. As an aside - what if the heir working under orders of the House? I wonder whether there is such a thing as "false excoriation", e.g. you excoriate someone, then they disappear and make a new life in Stormreach or Q'Barra, or you really make it worth their while unless they are fanatic supporters of the House ready for anything. Any way of circumventing this will be known to other Houses, however, if this is a tradition... Orien might not be happy with such a show if Lyrandar heirs are discovered sabotaging an important project. The second category, crimes committed in connection to House business might be less serious - a Medani selling access to a person he guards, an Orien violating postal privacy - but that make people wary of using House businesses. So they fit your own criterion of running against the interests of the House. The third category would include crimes such as seeking advancement by poisoning your superior. This does not necessarily harm the House as such, but parricide is never a good thing. Here, I assume crimes need to be really severe though, to warrant excoriation. Skimming one gold piece each week of a multiple-thousand a month research project will get you fined, imprisoned and demoted, rather than excoriated. Unless your viceroys really do not like you. Naturally, such 'crimes' are everyday fare in House Sivis. Lastly, I was wondering whether there such a thing as temporary excoriation. Since excoriation is similar to exile, and some cultures put a time-limit on the exile, could this happen with dragonmarked Houses too? That is, putting the time limit there at the moment of the sentence, not considering ten years later to rescind the penalty. Although this would make the penalty far less horrifying, so I would not really want to go with this. My PC's benefactor is a young House Tharashk heir with the Lesser mark. He is trying to start his own museum. We have a House Tarkanon member, unmarked, in the party. His affiliation was known, but the benefactor chose to ignore it, as long as he obeys orders. Well, long story short, the house Tarkanon member robbed the Aurum in the Mror holds, of 200,000GP. Sine he was affiliated with the Tharashk member , House Tharashk excoriated the benefactor on the grounds that he was cooperating with Tarkanon and that four of the PC's under his employ robbed the Aurum. They also gave their benefactor a cut of the money without his knowing where it came from. That's a great story, Black Dragon. If they actually gave their benefactor a cut of the money after a robbery, an investigation into excoriation would be warranted even without a Tarkanon member on the team. Association with Tarkanon, whose main goal is to get revenge on the Houses, would also be a good ground for excoriation without anything else happening. Thanks for the submission. I'll edit the list. :)
DrunkMonk 03-02-08, 02:22 AM	I dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I am pretty sure that becasue of the dangers in mixing bloodlines, no hanky panky between different house members. We had a situation like this come up in one of our games and it sidetracked us for a long time. dm
Syltorian 03-02-08, 06:42 AM	I dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I am pretty sure that becasue of the dangers in mixing bloodlines, no hanky panky between different house members. I thought about that, until I reread the section on Excoriation in Dragonmarked. It mentions specifically that such 'dalliances', as it calls it, were grounds for excoriation in the past, but also that they no longer are. They remain a taboo, but not a serious enough crime. This seems to fit in with Dragonmarked's presentation of aberrant marks as not being much of a social stigma any longer. Personally, I disagree with this. It takes away much of the aberrant marks. I would like to see inter-house affairs as a cause for excoriation - as I would rule that anyone but Ghallanda excoriates a member who develops an aberrant mark - but the 'canon' contradicts me officially, so that would be houserule.
DrunkMonk 03-02-08, 06:35 PM	Sylorian, I must have missed that when I looked at our GMs copy of Dragonmarked. I will have to try and reread that section. I agree with you about how the houses should view "dalliances". DM
The Fireballed Mage 03-02-08, 08:27 PM	Some nice work here. Good hooks for games. I would like to see inter-house affairs as a cause for excoriation - as I would rule that anyone but Ghallanda excoriates a member who develops an aberrant mark - but the 'canon' contradicts me officially, so that would be houserule. For me and my campaigns, inter-House romances are one of those dirty little secretes that publicly all the Houses are against... all the while the powerful shamelessly conducting them in the shadows. The way I see it, if you're a high up member of your House you're rich, powerful, focused, determined, and generally self-assured to the point of arrogance. You're also most likely married off to someone to whom they think you will breed a new generation of Dragonmarked scions with... but that doesn't mean you care one whit for your spouse as a person. Rich, powerful, arrogant, and in a loveless marriage... I see these types as looking for passion. Dangerous passion, the thrill of the forbidden fruit, of dancing along the razor's edge. What else would get the blood pumping like seducing --or being seduced-- by a member of another House? It's shocking! Scandalous! It is the very taboo of it itself that inflames your senses and drives thunderous passions that draw you to this other person. It may be for true love --or just love of the thrill-- but when you are with this person you feel alive. And of course, being generally arrogant, you don't believe you could ever get caught or a child could be the result of such dalliance... but all too often... So while the Houses publicly decry such mixing... it is often a case of "Don't ask, don't tell" and "Do what I say, not what I do."
Syltorian 03-03-08, 02:31 PM	That's a great take on the issue of mixing amongst the Houses, Fireballed Mage! It would also fit the closer-tied Houses, such as Orien and Vadalis (if I recall correctly, you mentioned that in your excellent review of the Houses - while we are at that, I am sure you have some good ideas for excoriations!). Beyond the mixing with other Houses because you are looking for passion or simply because of the attraction of the forbidden, I would also see the Houses reacting quite differently to this (at least, ideologically, if not in practice). Ghallanda accepts aberrant marked members, so they won't have problems with mixed marks. There might be some half-Jorasco amongst them; but that is the only House Ghallanda could mix with. Medani was forced to become a 'traditional' House in the War of the Mark, dislikes authority, and embraces the multi-racial heritage of the Khoravar, so they might be another candidate to close both eyes over such actions. They are security guys, however, so they might be wary of the supposedly labile character of the aberrant-marked. Vadalis I could likewise see as ignoring the entire tradition. They are breeders and maybe concerned about lineages, but they are the least political - thus the most likely to marry for love, not politics - and love their family too much to punish them a lot. IMC, being excoriated by Vadalis is quite an achievement. They also have different traditions and are the odd-one-out nobody else really understands. They'd probably just shrug their shoulders and deposit their heirs in the Eldeen Reaches where no-one will find out. Tharashk is a new house, found long after the War of the Mark, so they do not have that tradition. The are also quite accepting of other races. They deal with creatures everyone else considers monsters. Part of it is even dedicated to the Dragon Below. Other Houses I could still see as reacting violently to their members having dalliances with other heirs. Lyrandar is dedicated to racial purity with some fanaticism. The problem is not simply that you had a dalliance with a Heir of Deneith. You also had one with a human. Horrible! Cannith and Deneith were a driving force behind the War of the Mark, and tend to be rather arrogant and proud. They are, however, by the same rule the most likely candidates for spurning a wife you never wanted and going elsewhere for love. . For Kundarak and Sivis, there does not seem to be much of a problem. AFAIK, there is no compatibility between dwarves/gnomes and other dragonmarked races. Sivis is quite likely to try things like this just to see if they can get away with it, though: it's all part of the game. The other houses - Phiarlan, Thuranni, Jorasco seem to be in the middle-ground. The elven Houses could accept it as part of infiltration other Houses, and Thuranni is the most eager to explore the Prophecy, and aberrant marks seem to be part of it. Still, beyond your concept, I also like the less realistic Romeo and Juliet aspects of the story, the Lyrandar and the Orien heir desperately in love with each other, despite the taboos and the clandestine trade war between the Houses, the political manoeuvring within the House (trying to remove a rival or superior by discovering his dark secret), even if it will get him demoted or discredited rather than excoriated. But overall, I like the idea that it is mostly theory, and that in practice the thrill of the forbidden and the search for passion lead to illicit relationships behind the scenes. Scandal can be a fascinating thing in some circles. Hm. I wonder whether abortion is legal under the Code of Galifar... or do you have to find an excoriated Jorasco (or do the House of Healing a big favour for keeping their mouths shut and committing an illegal act) if what wasn't supposed to happen does happen.