Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaodi 08-20-07, 03:44 PM	Dolurrh won the vote to be the first plane to be examined by the community. Dolurrh has the following traits: Heavy gravity. Timeless. Impeded magic: All spells are impeded. Entrapping: Scary process by which you can be turned into a shade native to the plane if you blow your Will save. Dolurrh Inhabitants: Nalfeshnee, lemure, marut, sorrowsworn, ephemeral swarm, plague brush. (Those are the canon ones at least, there may be more from MMIV, V an Dragon.) Coterminous one year every century. Ghosts abound. Now, we should probably approach this as as brainstorming on the totality of the plane. So, any idea related to its features, functions or inhabitants can be posited, with a few ground rules: Nothing should be conceived as merely being more uber than everything else in the setting. Creatures with the potential to be epic should not be the norm for any plane. Second, in keeping with the mysterious nature of Eberron, I do not think we should establish what happens to the shades of Dolurrh after they fade away. Certain features of the landscape may make vague suggestions, but there must be no answers. So, go nuts, I guess. At certain points, when we think there is a good amount of information submitted we can begin picking what pieces to put together into our final picture of the plane.
CannibalSmith 08-21-07, 07:09 AM	I propose that we take inspiration from the Moon. I propose that the terrain of the plane be flat, gray stone in all directions to infinity. That the atmosphere of the plane is gray, and everything is covered in dust. There is no wind in dollruth, so any footprints stay there. Population density is close to zero. I mean that for each shade there are no other inhabitants in a thousand or more mile radius. Shades stand or lie flat on the ground motionless. Maruts patrol the infinite vastness of the plane. I have no idea about nalfeshnees.
Kaodi 08-21-07, 11:00 AM	I have just one pressing idea for the terrain of Dolurrh so far. The Plain of Fragments Pieces of some titanic feature or structure are scattered over many miles here, in some places knee deep. Ranging from the size of an inch to two feet, they are made of some clouded crystal-like material and are lined with tiny parallel grooves on any smooth-sided pieces. To any test they appear to be indestructable, but they can, and have been moved, even across planes. For more than a hundred eons, a small group of nalfashnee demons have been trying to piece together the puzzle, but progress is painstakingly slow. So far, they have been able to assemble several sections no greater than 40 feet by 40 feet, and their shapes suggest little. Strangely enough, the entrapping effect of Dolurrh does not function within the Plain of Fragments, unless you spend too much time trying to put together the impossible puzzle. For this reason, the nalfeshnee and their servants drive off any shades that approach. The leader of the demons here was the first to discover the Plain of Fragments. Long years of searching the remains have led him to develop one of the keenest minds in the planes for puzzles and riddles.
Revvecor 08-21-07, 11:05 AM	I was picturing a place that was more like Hades then the moon. By this I mean that when a person dies they are transported by someone/something to the plane of Dolurrh. When they arrive at Dolurrh they would be broken into groups; the average person 99%, the truly evil beings that are tortured for eternity .5%, and the greatest worriers who are selected to fight in some great battle at the end of time .5%. Each of these groups would have there own region that they "live" in; The average person would just float around slowly losing all hope and memories of there past life. After a thousand years of a soul existing as a ghost (more or less) they are transformed into lemures. Those that are judged to be evil are cast into a pit similar to Tartarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus). The Nalfeshnee are the guards and lords of the pit. There job is to keep the evil souls confined and in a constant state of agony. Those worriers that are found to be the best of the best are sent to a place like Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhala).
Kaodi 08-21-07, 11:39 AM	On another element, I have always thought that Eberron should have unique planetouched that well represent their respective planes, instead of merely being shoehorned into the role. Eberron planetouched are more literal than other kinds, because they are not descended from outsiders, they are actual changed by the nature of the planes during coterminous phases. Theoretically, you could even have planetouched who touched by multiple planes, but they would likely be so incredibly rare that they would be unique beings, and fall outside the scope of what I would like to see, at least for now. Also, I'm a bigger fan of templates that races for the purpose but I'm going to stick to races for now. In the current scope, I see Dolurrh having two types of planetouched. One of them is a person who was warped by the energies of the plane during conception or early development. The other is the result of one or several shades bonding with an unborn child and subsuming their spirit into their own. The latter would have +2 str, -2 wis, +2 cha, a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. death magic and effects, the ability to use ancient knowledge once per day and possible a racial bonus to attacks and caster/manifester levels. That one I originally did back in December of last year. The former I never really got to. Perhaps +2 wis, -2 cha, a +4 racial save bonus vs. the entrapping effect of Dolurrh and the ability to use deathwatch at will. They'd also be immune to any confusion and insanity type effects perhaps, and also immune to morale penalties (and possibly bonuses).
CannibalSmith 08-21-07, 11:58 AM	Remember that "Dolurrh is not a reward or punishment; it just is". We should concentrate on this bit and capitalize the pointlessness of that place. We should avoid any passionate features, such as torment or eternal battle. Dolurrh is a place where time stands still. I have an idea! Let there be eternal "snowing" of dust in Dolurrh! Dunes of dust. That way the entrapping effect of the plane is literal.
RFrenchJr 08-21-07, 11:59 AM	By this I mean that when a person dies they are transported by someone/something to the plane of Dolurrh. When they arrive at Dolurrh they would be broken into groups; the average person 99%, the truly evil beings that are tortured for eternity .5%, and the greatest worriers who are selected to fight in some great battle at the end of time .5%. Each of these groups would have there own region that they "live" in; The average person would just float around slowly losing all hope and memories of there past life. After a thousand years of a soul existing as a ghost (more or less) they are transformed into lemures. I was thinking something similar, but for the planes in general. Those who are exceptionally evil, or exceptionally good wind up in Shavarath fighting on the eternal battlefield for their respective causes. I see Dolurrh as the place where all the average joes go. There the souls are used as some sort of power source. Why else would Nalfeshnees and maruts guard them. p. 95 Both nalfeshnees and maruts frown on having souls retrieved in this manner, however. I like Kaodi's plane of fragments idea. Uniquely disturbing. Good ideas coming from one and all.
Rekko 08-21-07, 12:22 PM	I have an idea for Doluurh. Let me work on some flavor text, I think you shall like it. Rekko
Revvecor 08-21-07, 12:54 PM	I was thinking something similar, but for the planes in general. Those who are exceptionally evil, or exceptionally good wind up in Shavarath fighting on the eternal battlefield for their respective causes. I see Dolurrh as the place where all the average joes go. There the souls are used as some sort of power source. Why else would Nalfeshnees and maruts guard them. I like your explanation, although I was trying to find some way to incorporate some the souls (that may be) taken by the Keeper after they die. I think I'll shift that idea to another thread. Back on topic. Although the features of the plane are plain with nothing standing out, there could still be quite unique structures throughout the plane. For example there could be areas where the plane coalesces into a labyrinth of never ending passages,rivers, and halls fading into and out of the mist.
RFrenchJr 08-21-07, 01:59 PM	I was trying to find some way to incorporate some the souls (that may be) taken by the Keeper after they die. I think I'll shift that idea to another thread. Well if you consider that at some point some being has to preside judgement over each soul when it dies before it can be sent to a certain plane you could assume the Keeper has his hand in that. Or perhaps the Keeper resides on Dolurrh taking some of the average joe souls that pop up occasionally making pacts with the other evil lords on other planes for some of their souls. "What's that, you say you need more grunts for your infantry? Well I can supply you with a thousand score if you would but just allow me the pleasure of taking that fresh soul you have been given." Also consider that the plane's main inhabitants are Inevitables that pursue those who try to cheat death (maruts), bloodthirsty devils that voraciously pursue combat (lemures) and somewhat pacifist henchmen demons (nelfeshnees) you have to argue that there are some sort of structures on the plains. They can't all just be wandering around. Besides, Lemures and Nelfeshnees aren't leaders, someone has to be telling them what to do and keeping them from going into chaos. Not to mention what purpose are they serving on Dolurrh? You've already got the inevitables making sure that people don't come flooding in to the plane snatching up the souls of their best buddies that died, so why the nelfeshnees and lemures, and why specifically two creatures that rely on commands from more powerful ones?
Rekko 08-21-07, 03:24 PM	My name is Marik. I am fascinated by death and life. I have been to Dolurrh and back. I have seen what awaits us beyond death. My journey started in Lakeside, a town on the bank of the Lake Dark in Karrnath which is also a manifest zone to Dolurrh. I dived into the lake, swam deeper and deeper. Darkness was all around me, the lake rightly deserves its name. Pressure was getting stronger and heavier quite rapidly, and blurred shapes were all around me. I suppose they were souls of dead people going to their final resting place. I always thought that souls would travel to the Realm of the Dead via the manifest zones. However, if Dolurrh is remote it is possible that souls need to travel through the Astral Plane to rest in peace. The temperature was dropping, it was very cold. Some light seemed to reflect on what seemed the surface of the lake. Have I been confused and swam my way back to Eberron? At first, that’s what I thought, but when I filled my lungs with air, I knew something was abnormal. I was neutral in emotion, my limbs felt heavy and I was frightened to drown in the middle of the lake. I couldn’t swim right and had high difficulty to get to the shore. The grey, dusty, cold, and misty shore. The doorway to Dolurrh, I was there. I saw miles of emptiness, shadows, dust, mist and, above all, absolute silence. I was dry, as if I never swam through the lake. I was standing there, not knowing what was beyond my sight. I had two choice. Explore or go back. How I would have wanted to explore, but I was not prepared to die, for I felt like dying slowly for every step I took in this realm. Suddenly, a soul emerged from the pool I just got out. It floated lightly in the air. It came towards me, I took a few steps back, frightened, but it passed next to me, I was unnoticed. I decided to fallow it. This soul would lead me to the secrets of death and beyond, the meaning of life. As I pulled my heavy body forward, the mist would sometimes become ticker, sometimes it would dissipate revealing a desert of shadows. From time to time, a feature emerged similar to black shadowy trees, small hills or shallow black rivers. The horizon was flat and no sign of any building, forest or mountain could be seen. I didn’t know how much time I spent fallowing that soul, it felt both as eternity and a split second, but it seemed to arrive at its destination. There was nowhere to hide, I just hoped the darkness would conceal me for a nalfeshnee was in front of me. Small figures were surrounding him, but the darkness couldn’t reveal much more than some slimy mass with a head. From my knowledge of monsters I would say they were lemures. The soul became a ghost after some words of welcome pronounced by the nalfeshnee, and it continued its calm passing through the shadows of the realm. I stepped back, hoping not to get seen, and lost sight of the demon. I started walking back to the lake. Grey emotions filled me at once, I could even say a pinch of despair got to me. Would I be able to find my way back? Moreover, the shadows of the realm were getting on me and my skin seemed suddenly darker. Dolurrh was slowly getting hold of me. But I was not dead yet. I don’t know how much time after I saw the nalfeshnee, I saw a field of floating ghosts, shadows and lemures. So it was lemures I saw around the nalfeshnee. It seemed that the darker the creatures were, the more they were merged with the plane itself. The lemures were the darkest of all, darker than shadows. By my observation, it seems that the longer a soul stays in Dolurrh it transforms into a ghost, than a shadow, than a lemure. I wonder where the nalfeshnee comes from? Maybe the demon is crafted by the shadow matter of the plane. Anyhow, it seemed the nalfeshnee aren’t the only creatures guarding the souls. Nightshades of all form and wraiths were among the lot. My skin became darker, and I knew it was time for me to move away before it was too late. I turned around and ran in a straight direction for as long as I could. I became fatigue, nearly exhausted, very fast. I must have made some noise for will-o’wisps and different ooze creatures, notably living necromantic spells, came to meet me. I think I even saw a belkar coming out of the mist. My presence was not welcomed. I bumped into a guardian naga. What purpose does a creature like that has in a place like this? It must be another guardian of the souls. “Living one” it said, “have you come here to die, or perhaps to disturb the calm peace of this resting place?” I had no breath to speak but I shook my head, hoping it would be sufficient. The naga pointed me a direction. “Go” it said, and I went. After a while, I found myself in front of the lake. Maybe the guardian naga is also keeping an eye on Dolurrh visitors like me so we find our way back to the living world. The lake was guarded by maruts and I swear I could feel invisible stalkers. My skin was very dark, I was almost a shadow myself. It was quite time I leave this place. I walked into the waters. They were neither cold nor warm. I had water up to my chest when a soul emerged from the pool. It was my beloved father. Dead. I suppose from fright that I may not returned from my trip to Dolurrh. “Father.” I said in a faint voice. He looked at me. “Come back with me.” He looked at the shores. “He is dead, he is not going anywhere, and if you want to live, I suggest you go now and never come back.” It was a marut on the shore who warned me not to play with life and death. I obeyed, dived into the waters, swam deeper and deeper until I broke the surface of Lake Dark back on Eberron. I went to my father’s funeral. I rested from my trip and noted down all I remembered. After reflection, I haven’t figured out most of my questions about life and death. Moreover, I have more questions. Mostly regarding undeads and undyings. What happens to their souls? Moreover, I feel like outsiders’ death aren’t the same as ours. So many questions. I think it requires a new trip to Dolurrh. Rekko
OctaviusIII 08-22-07, 03:31 AM	Hmmm.... although I'm not a fan of souls becoming lemures, I like where this is going. Dolurrh is two things: it is dark, and it is heavy. It affects the mind, and it strips away the experiences and the built structures of the soul that make it Merrix or Oalian until all that is left is simply the barren animative properties of the soul, until that, too, is absorbed into the backround of Dolurrh. The demons that inhabit the plane know secrets that a visitor can only guess. Dolurrh is not infinite, but rather it is an orb far larger than Eberron. If you walk in one direction for long enough, you will end up where you started, and all the way you will not discern anything but minute changes in the landscape. A hill. A plynth. A hole. The purpose of the demons is unknown, but they have built a temple city around two parallel raised stones, which they say is a gateway to the afterlife. From the looks of it, though, it's just two raised stones with a gap (and a road) between. Demons also find their way by setting up cairns, although for the most part this is far from where the souls of Eberron first arrive.
Rekko 08-22-07, 09:13 AM	Something I couldn't write in Marik's story: Dolurrh isn't only the realm of the deads. This plane has an important purpose that none knows but the soul guardians. When someone dies, its soul passes to Dolurrh. There, it will be slowly absorbed by the plane, transformed into some shadow matter. After spending enough time on Dolurrh, souls have completly lost all knowledge they had in their previous life. They are completly pure, almost inanimated, and are ready to be sent back to Eberron and fill the body of a newborn, giving it life. Babies that die before birth or shortly after were meant to die in a way because there were no pure soul to merge with its body. If a resurection spell is cast on such baby, a soul can come to it, as if it has just been borned. Being dead, souls automatically fail their Will save and become native to the plane after one day. Each soul is welcomed by a nalfeshnee which turns the soul in a proper undead depending on the soul. The most common undead are shadows. The souls that have still something to do on Eberron are turned into ghosts, they will stay in Dolurrh the time needed to plan their expedition back to the material plane to finish their undone business. When a ghost has found its peace, it is transformed into a shadow. Then, from those who commited suicide some are turned into allips because it was far from their time to die. Being turned into an allip slows the purpose of the plane, but it is a necessary to make the soul understand that they need to come back to Dolurrh only when it is their time to do so. The balanced between life and death is extremely important. The lemures aren't ghost and shadows. Lemures are crafted by the nalfeshnee around a soul with shadow matter. Lemures are the workers of Dolurrh, they help shadows forget their past life and merge with the plane. Once that is done, the shadow is transported to the Plane of Shadows so it can travel easily all around Eberron and give life to a newborned child. When a shadow decides to give life, it is no longer a shadow, it has become a soul, which is incorporal and invisible on Eberron. Some souls do travel to the Plane of Shadows and aren't ready to give life. These ones are the undead shadows that we all use to know. To me, Dolurrh is a place of emptiness, silence and shadowy mists. The heavy gravity makes it difficult to move around and hammers the emotions of the unwelcomed visitors. The timeless feature makes it difficult to remember things you've done while on the plane. Mechanically, I would say each day, when you make your Will save to resist the entrapping effect, if you succeed, the difference between your roll and the DC is the number of the previous hours spent in Dolurrh you remember. For example, the first time you need to roll it's DC 15, so if you roll 23, you will remember 8 hours. Moreover, timeless means characters do not need to eat or drink, they stay in the state of hungerness they were when entering the plane. Eating in Dolurrh does not satisfy hunger, if you entered the realm of the dead starving. If you rest in Dolurrh, you get -10 on your Will save if ever you would have to do it while sleeping. However, you do not need to rest in Dolurrh, unless you want to recover some spells or remove the fatigue or exhausted state. Dolurrh inhabitants are fiercesom protectors of the souls. Don't mess with them, or you'll have to take the place of the soul you stole them. While some are protectors of the deads, others, like the guardian naga, are protectors of the living. They try to help lost wanderers go back to Eberron, they keep maruts or nalfeshnee to hunt necromancers down to the last one, etc. However, the protectors of the living are also protectors of deads, so if you are wrong doing, don't expect anyone to help you on Dolurrh. Among the Living spells, there are many necromancy spells. However, there are many Alarm Living Spells that patrol the realm of the dead and are linked to its inhabitants. If you ever be engulfed of hit by a Alarm Living Spell, suspect a few Dolurrh inhabitants to come after you. I'd add this feature to the plane: Silence, it is impossible to create any sound in Dolurrh. All talking is telepathy. If your chainmail was making noise on Eberron, it doesn't now. If your sword hits a marut on Dolurrh, no impact sound. etc. You could say that players can only communicate by signs (in the heavy gravity, he he) until they get telephatic links. It builds the isolation of each character higher. Visibility is poor. Rekko
Lord Kale Fangblade 08-22-07, 09:58 AM	First of all, I like how Rekko described the recycling process of souls. I've always had a similar opinion, though i have to say it wasnt as detailed as Rekko's. I always saw it as that the souls were broken down into somekind of energy which is then combined or mixed with more of it to make new souls. I like Rekko's idea more though. Moving on to the Terrain, personally i've always seen Dolurrh as an endless desert of dull grey sand, that stretches ever onwards in the horizon. With knee or waist high mists, also grey, that seem to caress and snake around non-inhabitants that travel through Dolurrh. As for the Planar inhabitance, i havent really given that much thought, though now im beggining to see in my minds eye huge cities built on and of dull grey rock that rise out of the waste land that is my Dolurrh.
Rekko 08-22-07, 11:22 AM	Thanks for the support. I forgot to mention that Chaos Beast would make good Dolurrh inhabitants. You would encounter them near the Doorway, the entrances of the realm. They would take the shapes of the dreadest fears of the unwelcomed visitors in an attempt to push them out of the plane. I think Dolurrh need a creature that comes to Eberron to claim the lives of those you die of old age. Those who survived diseases and fatal wounds. One last note, I don't think skeletons, zombies, vampires, and other undeads aside from the incorporal undeads and maybe a few selected undead-outsiders like the nightshades would be inhabitants of Dolurrh. Moreover, I don't think the three creatures from MM3 given in example in the ECS would be Dolurrh inhabitants. Maybe the sorrowsworn demon could fit in, but I would see them on Eberron rather than on Dolurrh. Rekko
Kaodi 08-22-07, 11:29 AM	I have to disagree, on principle, with anything that equates the shades in Dolurrh with some kind of undead. Mabar is for undead, Dolurrh is for truly dead. Don't focus too heavily on the name, " shade " . I think it's just meant to evoke a certain feeling, that these things are merely shadows of their former selves, but not in the undead sense, in the metaphysical sense. If you were to actually stat Dolurrh's shades, they would probably look more or less like the petitioners of other settings, which are outsiders. As for cities, if you want to put cities into Dolurrh, my thought would be that they are underground. The surface is the realm of the shades, the endless waste, with only a handful of features, like my Plain of Fragments, and if you don't mind, Rekko, I think I would expand the " pool " to a " Dark Ocean " linked to Lake Dark. Shades would not feel the need to go underground, or underwater, unless taken there by someone who is not a shade.
Rekko 08-22-07, 10:22 PM	I agree with you with the shadows not being the ones we can find in the monster manual. As I said, I think Dolurrh isn't really the place for undead, with some incorporal or outsider undead maybe (like ghost, allip, 'shadow', wraiths, nightshades). What do you think about oozes? And other inhabitants idea, like the guardian naga? Pool, lake, sea, ocean, I don't mind. I even think of making the features on the land (water, rivers, lonely trees, hills, holes) move across the realm to make it even more difficult to get out of the plane, and to give the feel that the plane is sort of 'alive' and that souls become part of it and shape its surface. Totally agree on undergrund cities. Maybe some sort of tower built in the ceiling of the huge deep cave over the emptiness of void. Rekko
OctaviusIII 08-23-07, 12:08 AM	Come to think of it, when I drove across the Saskatchewan plains the thing that got me the most was that there were actually reference points heading towards the horizon in the form of somewhat regular grain elevators. It reinforced the flatness of the place like nothing I'd ever seen, and I've been in the middle of an ocean, too. Saskatchewan seemed much more vast because of it. Dolurrh should definitely have rubble fields and, every so often, a jutting rock that rises above the field. Mountains feel too visually interesting for Dolurrh.
CannibalSmith 08-23-07, 02:39 AM	What do you think about oozes? And other inhabitants idea, like the guardian naga? No. In my opinion. Only immortal (timeless) beings, such as constructs and outsiders, should "live" there. Heck, drop outsiders cause they're too alive!
Kaodi 08-23-07, 08:54 AM	Personally, I'd like to try and figure out what exactly the current monsters (the ones in the ECS) in Dolurrh do before worrying about what other denizens might be up to, but thats just me. I don't have the MM3, so I can't really even guess at what the sorrowsworn, ephemeral swarm and plague brush might do. The job of maruts is pretty clear cut, as for the nalfeshnee and lemures, I am not really sure. My feeling though is that they are not really soul stuff, but that they are more like a distilled essence of the Plane...
CannibalSmith 08-23-07, 09:09 AM	[..] Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. That excerpt implies that nonwarforged do experience some kind of afterlife to speak of. That begs the question: what do they experience?
Rekko 08-23-07, 03:26 PM	It's been two months since I locked away my beloved father in our family crypt. I miss him so much. It's all my fault if his dead of worry. I can't seem to be able to stop mourning him and pass to other things. Like working on my reseaches on Dolurrh, death and life. Well, at least my father now knows some of the answers I seek.... my father knows... I have decided, I'll bring him back. It's not as if you didn't expect me to not knowing any resurection spell? I just need to get the material components ready and sorted properly around my father's body in his tomb. Moreover, Dolurrh isn't remote, so It shouldn't be much trouble. "I here call upon the powers of Dolurrh, where the souls of the deads rest in peace. Please, by the Host, let me disturb the peace of a dead and bring it back to life!" As I lay my hands on my father's chest where the heart is, the components glowed faintly and turned into dust. I felt a pulse and the cold body warmed thereafter. My father's chest dilated itself, filled with air. He was breathing again. His eyes opened slowly and he had enough strenght to rub them as if he woke up from a long sleep. -"Father" I said in joy. -"Marik, my son!" he answered. -"How are you? What was it like to die and be dead?" I questionned rapidly. -"My memory of it isn't good" he answered, "but upon dying I felt light, calm and at peace. As if my thoughts were pulled out of my head and I had nothing to worry about anymore. And for a father whose son is crazy enough to go to Dolurrh, this is a great relief, don't ever do that to me again." "-I'll try not if you promise me not to die again" I laughed. "Yet again, what else did you feel?" -"Humm, then slowly I felt nothing and my memories were also pulled out of my head. They were gentle enough to start by the worst. However, I felt like being erase from existence, and I know it seems weird to say it, but it was pleasant." -"I suppose you weren't entirely erased from existence since I brought ou back home." I replied. -"Yes, thank you" he said tears running on his cheeks and looking for a hug. Then he silently said "It will come after you, you disobeyed it" He was talking about the marut. I suddenly felt rigid, I haven't tought a minute about that. Better get prepared to welcome this visitor on my doorstep... --- As for Warforged, since they are magically created by the Forges and a combination of special substances, their artificial souls could either float back to one of the remaining Creation Forge, or it stays within the warforged slowly dissipating its living energy (as if we switch the construct to off) and awaiting some major repair/upgrade to be functionnal again. --- Sorrowsworn Demon These Large outsiders are basically creatures of loss and sorrow, and they prey on those feelings. The often appear after wars and battles to feed on the survivors' emotions who have loss friends and family. I think that the Sorrowsworn demon can fit into Doluurh by using it's abilities to emphasis the despair and other grey-dark emotion of DOlurrh to its unwelcomed visitors. Moreover, they could be agent of the realm of the deads that spread sorrow after wars so that the deads are rightfully mourned. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/82981.jpg Ephemeral swarm This tiny undead incorporal swarm spawns when small creature are killed violently in mass. e.g. a rat's nest killed by fireball could come back to hunt as an ephemeral swarm. I don't think it fits Dolurrh. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/82988.jpg Plague brush This colossal extraplanar plant has only one goal roll and kill what's in its way. However, if it misses its target, it doesn't care much and simply continues to roll. In the 'Plague Brush in Eberron' entry, it says that the plant looses its extraplanar subtype and rolls into the Mournland. They were grown as a weapon by the Five Nations. I don't like the image of it in Doluurh. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83034.jpg --- I like Ooze because, my current view of Dolurrh is a desert of emptiness full of vaporous shadowy mist and dust. There would be almost no feature to the morphic land. It is a place of isolation, absolute silence, and resting. For an unwelcomed visitor (which means planar hopping to Dolurrh), they would at first experience dying, then death. Once they are at that point, they are dead and become natives of Dolurrh who are at peace and they enter the 'recycling' process of the plane, so life can be given back. In a place like that, Ooze would blend in, pass unnoticed, mistaken for the shadowy mist. You aren't in the obligation to share my view, but that's something I like and I think I'll keep until I found something better. Rekko
Kaodi 08-23-07, 04:10 PM	I think I would take away the alignment sub-types from nalfeshnee, lemures and sorrowsworn, make lemures neutral but leave nalfeshnee and sorrowsworns alignment alone. Perhaps there is a type of ooze that is the distilled emotions of the shades of Dolurrh. The nalfeshnee create lemures, which they can command, from these oozes. The ooze is, in part, created by the sorrowsworn, as its formation is catalyzed by the feeding methods of those demons. The nalfeshnee are very loosely organized in purpose, while the sorrowsworn are lone wolves, so to speak.
Bocamb 08-23-07, 05:04 PM	I found some inspiration for a gate to Dolurrh that may also have some bearing on the plane itself. In a novel by Sarah Monette (Melusine), there is a brief reference to a goddess of death that demanded that her followers construct mazes to gain access to the land of the dead. Flavor-wise, an association between the Keeper and mazes or labyrinths makes a great deal of sense: mazes are designed to disorient people and to prevent easy escape. A stone maze, carved into the earth that eventually leads to Dolurrh might be fun to play at the table. After tormenting the party with claustrophobic stone walls and endless dead-ends, having them stumble onto a staircase leading to a desolate, gray wasteland with no identifiable features would be absolutely horrifying. A good place to put one of these manifest zones to Dolurrh might be the War Mazes of Ohr Kaluun (described in Secrets of Sarlona, pp. 76-7). Another possibility to a barren gray plain would be to have Dolurrh appear as an endless maze of deep, dry canyons filled with cold winds, dust, and dark shadows. Anybody climbing to the top of the canyon walls (a difficult task given that gravity is so heavy on Dolurrh) sees a vast, flat expanse of parched earth cut by enormous ravines and gulleys that are dry, dusty, and gray. Of course, one is unlikely to get much further than the top of the canyon walls because it is there, up top, that the nalfeshnee and the maruts dwell, forever looking down on the souls who wander aimlessly through the plane. Personally, I've always envisioned Dolurrh in this way because I prefer a more claustrophobic feel to the plane.
CannibalSmith 08-24-07, 02:16 AM	Sorrowsworn Demon They can fit there as parasites. Invaders from Mabar. Maruts and/or nalfeshnees are fighting them constantly. How do these things reproduce and multiply, however? Ephemeral swarm Animals have souls too, right? So their souls go to Dolurrh too. And we can find shades of sheep and dogs there. And ephemeral swarms. Plague brush Make it look like dried tumbleweed, and it should be fine. Maruts might be fighting them too cause they're eating the shades! So to sum up: maruts (and maybe nalfeshnees) at the center. All the rest form the weird wildlife of the plane.
Rekko 08-24-07, 09:11 AM	Another possibility to a barren gray plain would be to have Dolurrh appear as an endless maze of deep, dry canyons filled with cold winds, dust, and dark shadows. Anybody climbing to the top of the canyon walls (a difficult task given that gravity is so heavy on Dolurrh) sees a vast, flat expanse of parched earth cut by enormous ravines and gulleys that are dry, dusty, and gray. Of course, one is unlikely to get much further than the top of the canyon walls because it is there, up top, that the nalfeshnee and the maruts dwell, forever looking down on the souls who wander aimlessly through the plane. Personally, I've always envisioned Dolurrh in this way because I prefer a more claustrophobic feel to the plane. I like this idea. Either I'll use it to describe a manifest zone around the Keeper's lair in the Demon Wastes. But for that, I'll have to make the Labyrinth spread up to the chasm. Or simply put another labyrinth around it. Or I'll make a giant-made/dragon-made labyrinth on Xen'drik or Argonnessen and link it to Dolurrh. Rekko
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-27-07, 11:51 AM	Hm. Has anyone here read The Amber Spyglass by Phillip Pullman? The Land of the Dead in The Amber Spyglass -IS- Dolurrh. There's no way around it, really. When people die, their metaphysical hearts (in His Dark Materials called a Daemon) are torn from them, and they go to the land of the dead. This place is an island of infinite area (that is, you reach it by crossing a river, but once on the other side the place has no end) To quote from Bridge to the Stars.net (http://www.bridgetothestars.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page) Land of the Dead - the underworld where all souls from all worlds go when they die. Guarded by harpies, it is a place of neither heaven nor hell-just nothingness, forever and ever. As far as I remember, the island is just dirt, and inhabited only by shades of people who eventually lose all will to even move and all memory. Replace the harpies with Nafeleshee, and you have Dolurrh.
ArcTan 08-28-07, 02:36 AM	I was picturing a place that was more like Hades then the moon. By this I mean that when a person dies they are transported by someone/something to the plane of Dolurrh. When they arrive at Dolurrh they would be broken into groups; the average person 99%, the truly evil beings that are tortured for eternity .5%, and the greatest worriers who are selected to fight in some great battle at the end of time .5%. Each of these groups would have there own region that they "live" in; The average person would just float around slowly losing all hope and memories of there past life. After a thousand years of a soul existing as a ghost (more or less) they are transformed into lemures. Those that are judged to be evil are cast into a pit similar to Tartarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus). The Nalfeshnee are the guards and lords of the pit. There job is to keep the evil souls confined and in a constant state of agony. Those worriers that are found to be the best of the best are sent to a place like Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhala). Strongly, strongly disagree. Half the point of Dolurrh is that it's a place where there is no Final Judgment. No one can point to any sort of sorting that takes place in Dolurrh as evidence for their moral code. *Everyone* goes to Dolurrh, PCs and NPCs, LG and CE, all alike.
Rekko 08-29-07, 12:01 PM	Dolurrh being a gigantic pool of souls could be a very good way to put Incarnum in Eberron. Any thoughts on the matter? Rekko
CannibalSmith 08-29-07, 12:52 PM	Do you need such a pool for incarnum? I thought, all you need is a source of knowledge of the technique to introduce it. A tome, for example. A practitioner uses his own soul mainly. If any Eberronian outer plane should have affinity for incarnum, it's Irian because of its positive energy trait. Soulshards (a kind of consumable that grants one essentia point for one round) are found on the Positive Energy Plane of the default cosmology.
Rekko 01-03-08, 04:12 PM	Anyone sent their PCs on Dolurrh, or went there? From my part, no.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-05-08, 10:54 PM	Consider Usula le Guin's realm of the dead in the Earthsea books. The dead are there, but without passion of any sort.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-05-08, 11:21 PM	I have an idea! Let there be eternal "snowing" of dust in Dolurrh! Dunes of dust. That way the entrapping effect of the plane is literal. Antarctica without the cold - dust instead of snow. The terrain would be massive. Glaciers and crevasses of dust. The occasional blizzard. The dust falls all the time - but not a full on snowstorm, just a continual grittiness, and a few flakes like ash, or snow. It takes months, or years, to be covered. Anyway, the plane is timeless. So the "time" taken is more a state of mind. The dust is made of ... the uncountable "small lives" that die - the insects, the bacteria (if there is such a thing in Eberron). The plane is laid out like Eberron itself - basically a one-for-one correspondence. The dust that falls carries something of the zeitgeist, the spirit, of whence it came. Thus, aside from the obviious rescue mission, a mission to Dolurh might be a scientific mission to take a core sample at some important or significant place - a battleground, an ancient city. Of course, the glaciation means that things move around a little. Souls that give up and go immobile and inert (happens to 'em all, eventually) are eventually buried in dust and are carried by dust-glaciers out to the edge of the plane. There, the dust breaks off into icebergs that drift outward slowly into - nothing. Dissolution. Utter forgetfulness. Or, if you prefer, this happens as the burying happens deeper and deeper. The "nothingness" is not outward, it is downward. This answers the question "what happens if you dig down?". Dollurh is basically like a more-or-less permanent mat of leaves forming in a river. It's a phenomenon that happens because all life is spiritiually tangled together. The "nothingness" downward is a spiritual nothingness, not a physical nothingness like Mabar. The strong gravity is simply how one experiences the whole being sucked down into nothingness that the lane is all about. Being carried to dissolution takes aeons. Along with the souls of the recent dead, buried deep beneath the dust are ancient titans - both evil and good. Demigods who lost their worshippers, and worse things. So another mission is stopping evil cultists attempting to ressurect forgotten horrors. So the overall geology is you have the upper surface, closest to the realms of life, where the dust falls. Then it compacts down into a solid layer. Then moving further down it sort of breaks up and dissolves - miles and miles below. The thickest bits are the places where there is the most life - jungles and whatnot. Cities actually create mountains of dust, and are easily recognisable for that reason. No hang on, that's not right - cities are relatively devoid of life, they are pits in Doluurh. . The thinnest bits are the lifeless parts of Ebberon, the harshest deserts, be they icy or firey. You can look into some of the greater crevasses there, and see down into the final blackness itself. When you plane-shift to Dollurh, you more or less end up in the place corresponding to where you left prime. Travel on Dollurh is usually far more challenging than it is in prime, so if you want to find a particular thing, the best option is to travel to the real-world location first, and then plane shift. The shift itself involves falling out of the sky, like the rest of the dust, in heavy gravity. Just as travel in Fernia requires immunity to fire, travel to Dollurh means having a feather fall ready for that initial drop. It's just one of those little practicalities :) . getting out of Dollurh means flying upward far enough so that you are close enough to the realm of the living for the plane shift to work. "Overland Flight" is your friend, here, or some kind of flying machine. Otherwise, you are stuck in Dollurh until ther is a conjuntion, where the sky dips low enough four you to plane shift. Don't hold your breath! Remember to not give up hope, and for gods sake keep moving!
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-06-08, 12:01 AM	Environmental hazards of Dolurrh would include "earthquakes", where chunks of land simply shift abruptly downwards towards the nothingness. These don't usually punch all the way through, except maybe in the really lifeless regions, because that would be an insta-kill. You'd need to be able to fly to get across these kinds of holes in the landscape.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-06-08, 12:13 AM	Further to my post: If Ebberon is spherical, then my idea raise the question: what happens to the dust in the centre of the earth? I propose, gentlemen, that Doluurh be a hollow sphere. The strong gravity is the effect of the winds of dissolution carrying life outward to nothingness (the winds of dissolution affect you like gravity). The "surface" of dollurh is above the surface of eberron. Souls at death plane-shift, fly upward (from our POV), and get tangled up with all the other souls for a few brief aeons, eventually migrating outward and falling away into final oblivion. That tangle is the physical bit of the plane, which is visitable. The "position" of dollurh in the sky ... dunno. Lets say: Dolurrh is not located "around" eberron, the plane shift at death involves transport to the astronomical location visible in the sky, but the rest of it - falling out of the sky, the dust, the being buried and eventually falling out the bottom - works fine. Oh: the dust glows faintly, cause it's life (and that takes care of illumination inside the hollow earth). If you use incarnium in your campaign, this is where you mine the raw stuff.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-07-08, 06:41 AM	Further to my post: Oh: the dust glows faintly, cause it's life (and that takes care of illumination inside the hollow earth). If you use incarnium in your campaign, this is where you mine the raw stuff. So there are brighter glows where there are more recent and higher-level dead.