Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fiendish_platypus 03-04-07, 12:18 PM	One of my fellow players plans to be a warforged dragon disciple, he has all the requirements and stuff, but the DM thinks it's a little far-fetched. 1)do you think this should be allowed? 2)what would this look like? (scaly and dragonish or metal and 'forgedish) 3)how would people react to this character?
Zombomaniac 03-04-07, 12:47 PM	One of my fellow players plans to be a warforged dragon disciple, he has all the requirements and stuff, but the DM thinks it's a little far-fetched. :uh-huh: Dragon Disciples have dragon blood. Warforged don't have blood. 1)do you think this should be allowed? No. I know Warforged have some really magical stuff in them, but i dont see how they can be part dragon when they aren't able to breed with dragons. Or anythingfor that matter. 2)what would this look like? (scaly and dragonish or metal and 'forgedish) Sorry to say but it would look like anything. I am normally one to allow a lot of stuff to make a game more fun, but Half-Dragon Warforged are just to far gone for even me. And I've allowed some crazy stuff. 3)how would people react to this character? Assuming this could somehow work (and it would require some major house rulings) it would freak everyone out. Every person with any interest in dragons, magic, constructs, Warforged, and God only knows what else would want to take thing guy apart and see how it is possible.
tallric_kruush 03-04-07, 02:26 PM	This isn't a direct answer to your question, but the discussion linked below may be of help if you're looking for a consensus from those on the board. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=793274 Granted, it's discussing templates; but the heart of the discussion seems to be relevant to what you're asking. This thread can be found on page four of the Classes, Races, and Monsters forum.
Edymnion 03-05-07, 01:26 PM	:uh-huh: Dragon Disciples have dragon blood. Warforged don't have blood.Show me where in the prereqs it says a Dragon Disciple has to be descended from a dragon. Not the fluff, because the fluff doesn't matter in this requard. If the character meets the mechanical prereqs, they can legally take the PrC. Whether or not the DM allows that PrC in his game is a totally differant matter. No. I know Warforged have some really magical stuff in them, but i dont see how they can be part dragon when they aren't able to breed with dragons. Or anythingfor that matter.But we already know that Warforged can grow new parts based on a pure act of will. Juggernaughts grow spikes. Tracery feats and the Jaws of Death (whatever it's real name was) lets them grow special metals or even giant gaping fanged mouths. They can grow to be blockier, more rounded, thinner, heavier, more evil looking, or more saintly (since by default every WF of a particular kind comes out of the forge looking just like every other WF of that kind, hence no individuality in looks, so something must allow them to change over time to look differant). If the WF is in tune with draconic powers, why can't he grow claws and wings and a breath weapon? Sorry to say but it would look like anything.I would personally say, if I allowed this character in the first place (which I generally wouldn't, but thats not the point), then they would look like a warforged half dragon. They would have metal scales, wood and metal wings, etc. Assuming this could somehow work (and it would require some major house rulings) it would freak everyone out. Every person with any interest in dragons, magic, constructs, Warforged, and God only knows what else would want to take thing guy apart and see how it is possible.Agreed on this point. This character would be a horrendous freak, essentially a one of a kind, and should expect everybody he meets (especially Canniths) to try and dissassemble him to see what makes him tick, and how he pulled such a stunt off. But, while rules legal, I wouldn't allow it for flavor reasons. I restrict the DD to the serene barbarians only, matter of fact. Just because a PrC might be in the setting doesn't mean the PCs can take it, after all. I'm oldschool PrC, they are world building tools, not character building tools. No player has any inherent right to take a PrC of any kind. I allow most PrC in my game, as long as the player warns me well ahead of time (like, when they decide they want that PrC, which is usually at character creation) so I have time to review it, work it in, etc, but just because you meet the prereqs and level up does not mean you get to take a PrC. I may very well even make you wait a few levels to take it after you meet the prereqs until it can be worked into the story. Thats generally reserved for the player that just springs the PrC on me out of the blue though.
goblin_pride 03-05-07, 11:44 PM	But, while rules legal, I wouldn't allow it for flavor reasons. I was beginning to get scared there, Edy, good thing I found that line towards the end or I would've thought you'd finally lost your marbles.
Elemental_Elf 03-07-07, 02:44 AM	Maybe the Dragons went into the Mournland and stole one of the creation forges. They took it back to Argonnessen and are now pumping Warforgeds out that have a spark of their creators (i.e. Dragons) in them. This spark enables these specific Warforgeds to become a Dragon Disciple. That's how I'd explain it... if I had to...
Zombomaniac 03-07-07, 02:35 PM	Maybe the Dragons went into the Mournland and stole one of the creation forges. They took it back to Argonnessen and are now pumping Warforgeds out that have a spark of their creators (i.e. Dragons) in them. This spark enables these specific Warforgeds to become a Dragon Disciple. That's how I'd explain it... if I had to... I actually kind of like that idea. The Dragons do consider the Mark of Making (something only Warforged get) as part of the Prophesy and likely the race as well so it would be to strange, in my opinion, that the Dragons took a Creation Forge.
Vharuck 03-07-07, 02:54 PM	Maybe the Dragons went into the Mournland and stole one of the creation forges. They took it back to Argonnessen and are now pumping Warforgeds out that have a spark of their creators (i.e. Dragons) in them. This spark enables these specific Warforgeds to become a Dragon Disciple. That's how I'd explain it... if I had to... I think I'd have an easier time explaining how a Khorvaire warforged had a draconic heritage than how an Argonnessan warforged could escape to Khorvaire.
Zombomaniac 03-07-07, 03:49 PM	I think I'd have an easier time explaining how a Khorvaire warforged had a draconic heritage than how an Argonnessan warforged could escape to Khorvaire. All part of the Prophesy? Agent of the Chamber? Really lucky 'Forged who tricked some human worshippers?
goblin_pride 03-07-07, 09:22 PM	The Dragons do consider the Mark of Making (something only Warforged get) as part of the Prophesy Not to rain on your parade, but House Cannith has the Mark of Making and they're human.
Vharuck 03-07-07, 09:24 PM	Not to rain on your parade, but House Cannith has the Mark of Making and they're human. I think he was referring to the Mark of the Becoming God, which warforged who seek to build a body for the Becoming God etch onto themselves. It resembles a dragonmark, but is much more ordered.
dunkeykong 03-07-07, 10:39 PM	from a recent Sage advice question as to whether or not warforged can take templates, for most of them, no they can not, however: Three notable exceptions are the half-celestial, half-dragon and half-fiendish template, which can be added to “any living, corporeal creature.” Technically, that excludes most constructs, since creatures without a Con score aren’t considered living creatures. However, a warforged has a Constitution score and is thus considered living (as suggested by the “living construct” subtype it has). Fluff-wise, its up to the DM, howerver as the RAW, its totally good.
Zombomaniac 03-07-07, 10:55 PM	I think he was referring to the Mark of the Becoming God, which warforged who seek to build a body for the Becoming God etch onto themselves. It resembles a dragonmark, but is much more ordered. Correct. I meant the Mark of the Becoming God. Thanks for the save.
Bartimaeus 03-08-07, 03:55 PM	If warforged can access magic that allows them to become part the land (Landforged Walker Secrets of Xen'drik) then a warforged can access the magic that can transform him into a half-dragon. Imho
dunkeykong 03-08-07, 07:14 PM	If warforged can access magic that allows them to become part the land (Landforged Walker Secrets of Xen'drik) then a warforged can access the magic that can transform him into a half-dragon. Imho by the RAW, its not a matter of opinion, it works on warforged. If your DM dosent want it to than thats his choice but by the RAW, a warforged can be a half-dragon, which is the final goal of a dragon disciple.
dunkeykong 03-08-07, 07:17 PM	As for RP reasons when it comes to strange warforged, I would imagine that in the closing days of the war people began experimenting with the forges to see what was possible, or that its a result of the magic explosion in Cyre, or one of the few surviving forges being run by people is putting out strange 'forged.
UnderworldLord 03-08-07, 08:10 PM	Well, we've decided that they can actually grow parts, so really what stops them from growing wings? Granted I probably won't 'be cool' with a half-dragon in my campaign, but thats just me.
JiCi 03-09-07, 03:54 PM	One of my fellow players plans to be a warforged dragon disciple, he has all the requirements and stuff, but the DM thinks it's a little far-fetched. 1)do you think this should be allowed? 2)what would this look like? (scaly and dragonish or metal and 'forgedish) 3)how would people react to this character?1) Yes, since warforged are not restricted by classes. Furthermore, dragon shamans can follow the path of dragons without having any blood or ancestry. 2) The best way to represent this is to make his armor dragonlike, like a dragon head-shaped helmet, carved scales on his body, small claws on his hands, etc... 3) For this part, my hands are tied. Depends on the region, and on the Draconic Prophecy.
OzzyTheWizard 03-10-07, 12:56 PM	One idea to overcome this is for an NPC (or PC if one is in the party) artificer to tinker with the warforged and add on new parts everytime the warforged gains a level. This would make it seem more believable.:)
fiendish_platypus 03-10-07, 02:34 PM	One idea to overcome this is for an NPC (or PC if one is in the party) artificer to tinker with the warforged and add on new parts everytime the warforged gains a level. This would make it seem more believable.:) But then what id the artificer dies??? then your screwed.
korcheck 03-10-07, 06:02 PM	from a recent Sage advice question as to whether or not warforged can take templates, for most of them, no they can not, however: Three notable exceptions are the half-celestial, half-dragon and half-fiendish template, which can be added to “any living, corporeal creature.” Technically, that excludes most constructs, since creatures without a Con score aren’t considered living creatures. However, a warforged has a Constitution score and is thus considered living (as suggested by the “living construct” subtype it has). Fluff-wise, its up to the DM, howerver as the RAW, its totally good. Half-celestial warforged? how the heck did that happen? I can just see myself explaining this request in the form of history to a DM.... Well back during the war an angel was flying over the remains on a battle field. In amongst the bodies he sees a female warforged. (He knew it was female because before going into battle it had spray painted its cheeks pink and then got and had stuffed the front of its tunic with socks.) Upon seeing this poor ravaged soul at the cusp of death the angel is overcome by a burning need to aid her. this leads the warforged to fall in love with this beautiful devine being. Sparks fly,(litterally?) things heat up and bingo bango nine months later a miracle happens. now i know the warforged aren't made to conceive so the miracle i am proposing is that the angel is the one to get pregnant. HUH HUH nice twist right? so you'll let me make one right? hello? hello? hey J pick up the freakin phone, get off the dang floor and stop laughing at me i was like totally cereal. com'mon why won't people believe me? Now a half fiend i can believe they could get kinky like that and do the nasty with anything that moves.
Edymnion 03-11-07, 07:49 PM	One idea to overcome this is for an NPC (or PC if one is in the party) artificer to tinker with the warforged and add on new parts everytime the warforged gains a level. This would make it seem more believable.:)See, thats dangerous though. You have set the precidence that Artificers can add templates to warforged essentially at will. If the artificer could do it to one WF, why can't he do it to every WF he meets thats willing to sit down long enough to be modified? It is very dangerous, from a logical standpoint, to have any of these things be the result of external physical modification, like bolting parts on, because you have religated the changes to glorified equipment. If you can bolt a pair of claws onto one WF like that, then anybody that knows how to do it should be able to do it to any WF that wants them, no PrC required.
Creature_Mastermind 03-11-07, 09:25 PM	It is very dangerous, from a logical standpoint. Edymnion you must remember that Eberron isn't very logical in our world
DarkWarriorKarg 03-12-07, 09:37 AM	Half-celestial warforged? how the heck did that happen? I can just see myself explaining this request in the form of history to a DM.... Well back during the war an angel was flying over the remains on a battle field. In amongst the bodies he sees a female warforged. (He knew it was female because before going into battle it had spray painted its cheeks pink and then got and had stuffed the front of its tunic with socks.) Upon seeing this poor ravaged soul at the cusp of death the angel is overcome by a burning need to aid her. this leads the warforged to fall in love with this beautiful devine being. Sparks fly,(litterally?) things heat up and bingo bango nine months later a miracle happens. now i know the warforged aren't made to conceive so the miracle i am proposing is that the angel is the one to get pregnant. HUH HUH nice twist right? so you'll let me make one right? hello? hello? hey J pick up the freakin phone, get off the dang floor and stop laughing at me i was like totally cereal. com'mon why won't people believe me? Now a half fiend i can believe they could get kinky like that and do the nasty with anything that moves. Merrix, experimenting with a variety of warforged types in the bowels of Sharn, discovers a new way of using the creation forge. Apparently, you can fuse a warforged with the essence of a being contained within a Khyber shard during the creation process. Merrix experiments with a variety of essences (elementals, fiends, celestials, human). One of the results is a half-celestial (among the other results). From there, you could have many reasons for being out and about. Something similar could happen in the Mournlands with the LoB's defective creation forge.
Kensan_Oni 03-13-07, 03:06 AM	1) I rarely say no to a character concept that is within reason. A Dragon Disciple is not game breaking, therefore I would let it in. 2) I don't see them differing that much from the traditional half-dragon from second edition. Instead of looking like semi-skeletal humans, they're semi-skeletal dragon-like humaniods with metallic wings. I might as the character to choose a metallic dragon to make my life easy, but I wouldn't force it to tightly. 3) Most people wouldn't take notice right away. A weird bodied Warforge. Huh. Most people wouldn't know or care that the person was special. Artificers and House Cannith would immediatly be scratching their heads and be wondering what is going on. The Council might pick up their sleepy heads and notice. The Lord of Blades' agents would definatly be wanting to recruit or destroy the person. There is no end of special people and orginizations that want to recruit and control such a Warforged. However, as far as the average person's reactions, there wouldn't be too much of a over-reaction, if that is what you are thinking. Being unusual might make it more of a target then normal, but that is about it.
Moccanime 03-13-07, 11:41 AM	Had a player who wanted to go the same way with his warforged character (the game ended, due unforseen circumstances, before he could enter it however). His back story was that some dragon parts (claw and scale pieces) had been used in his creation. He had been an experiment, that was judge to be a failure since he got no special abilities from the dragon parts. Had prepared some stories involving a manhunt on him, when he first started to awaken dragon powers.
AntiSean 03-13-07, 03:46 PM	I'd probably require that the character spend an extended amount of time (on the order of a few years, at the very least least) "going native" among the Seren Barbarians before his faithful devotion to the draconic founder of his tribe was made physcially manifest. Of course, acceptance wouldn't be a given by any stretch; roleplaying out the first encounters, rites of passage, etc. would take a long time in and of themselves. Closer to home, I suppose that a servant of Rhashaak could be warped by an extended proximity to Haka'torvhak. Again, that'd take a long, long, time as well. At least the party artificer would have plenty of downtime to spend some of that craft reserve! :)
DrOfDemonology 03-14-07, 08:21 PM	One of my fellow players plans to be a warforged dragon disciple, he has all the requirements and stuff, but the DM thinks it's a little far-fetched. 1)do you think this should be allowed? 2)what would this look like? (scaly and dragonish or metal and 'forgedish) 3)how would people react to this character? To be honest, I don't think it should be even remotely allowed. Warforged are constructed being, and have no capability of breeding whatsoever - even with magic. Dragons may be able to crossbreed with most living things, but those creatures at least have to be able to reproduce. This sounds like a munchkinism idea... ;)
spell_weaver 03-17-07, 11:12 AM	To be honest, I don't think it should be even remotely allowed. Warforged are constructed being, and have no capability of breeding whatsoever - even with magic. Dragons may be able to crossbreed with most living things, but those creatures at least have to be able to reproduce. This sounds like a munchkinism idea... ;) DD or the half dragn template dont necessary imply breeding with dragons, especially in Eberron. In a world infused with the blood of dragons where magic is everywhere and people routinley meddle with the essence of life itself, nothing is impossible. DD and the half dragon template simply implies a deep, fundamental connection with dragons. Maybe the dragons in Argonessan salvaged a creation forge to investigate and are using theyre owna magic to power it. maybe in ancient Xen'Drix theres a creation forge still running on partial power being infused with the trapped souls of dragons. the point is, a Warforged Dragon Disciple or half dragon isnt game breaking and it allows 'Forged some freedom in comparison to the other races.
Creature_Mastermind 03-17-07, 06:26 PM	Maybe the dragons in Argonessan salvaged a creation forge to investigate and are using theyre owna magic to power it. maybe in ancient Xen'Drix theres a creation forge still running on partial power being infused with the trapped souls of dragons. the point is, a Warforged Dragon Disciple or half dragon isnt game breaking and it allows 'Forged some freedom in comparison to the other races. i like this idea i will have to try this some time.
Nerdicus 03-17-07, 09:25 PM	There was another thread about a warforged dragon, which I thought was not only totally cool, but realistic. Your Warforged dragon disciple could be centered around the worship of, and care for, said warforged Dragon. The WF Dragon was a prototype made by the dragons after they stole the information and technology for it durring the dragon/ giant war. The product of their efforts, a warforged dragon stayed with the forge that created it and began to study it. Later on he forged some disciples to go abroad and learn what they can for of the world. A dragon shamman of Warforged heratige fits in nicely with that. Edit: Realized that Dragon disciple might be switched with Dragon shaman.
spyone 03-18-07, 12:43 AM	Doesn't it say somewhere (in Player's Guide to Eberron, IIRC) that the Dragons will hunt down and exterminate any half-dragon? Could be a significant downside to a half-dragon character.