Healing in the Mournlands [Archive] - Wizards Community

Healing in the Mournlands [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pnigro
05-16-07, 10:58 AM The Eberron Campaign Setting says that spells with Healing descriptor and natural healing do not work in the Mournlands. The Player's Guide to Eberron only says that spells with Healing descriptor don't work.

Which is correct?

Supernatural and extraordinary healing (like paladin healing ability) would work in the Mournlands.

With no healing spells and no natural healing, the Mournlands are almost too dangerous for a low level party (level 2 - 3). Shadows of the Last War is for level 2 characters and they must go into the Mournlands.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
Cifer
05-16-07, 12:45 PM The Eberron Campaign Setting says that spells with Healing descriptor and natural healing do not work in the Mournlands. The Player's Guide to Eberron only says that spells with Healing descriptor don't work.

Which is correct?
When in doubt or contradiction, always refer to the core of D&D, then the core of the setting, then everything else. Meaning: No healing with healing descriptor and no natural healing.

No healing spells is not quite correct, by the way: Druidic goodberries are a prime way of getting at least some HP back. Has your party a WF or can you hire some as mercenaries? Repair spells function fully. Temporary HP as provided by Aid can give you a buffer so you don't need to touch your actual HP. And of course, you better try to evade any combats you can.
Otherwise, you can just put one or two other adventures in between the Shadows and the Forge.
Nevarre
05-16-07, 12:56 PM It's my belief that Shadows of the Last war did not take into account the problem with Healing when it was written. There is no reference to it in the module and it was published before The Five Nations, which first mentioned to 'issue' with healing magic (as I recall).
In my game I had Failin have a skin of Goodberry wine that he was prepared to sell to the PCs. The Mournland was tough, but the PCs all survived (just) and they certainly have respect for the danger of the place.
Dragom
05-16-07, 04:19 PM I believe Kieth confirmed that one. Also saying that the Forgehold was effectively outside of the mournland would work as well.
AkumaDaimyo
05-16-07, 10:34 PM You can also cast that little sanctuary spell? I forget what its called. It brings up this little place that is in its own pocket dimension and you can rest there and stuff? You can heal in one of those because pocket dimenstions get around the Mournland deal. Hmm so I guess you could put a dude in a bag of holding with the cleric and have them both have air supplies and they could heal that way? Kinda silly but it would indeed work.
Runepriest
05-16-07, 10:53 PM Portable hole+ bottle of air+ Cleric= healing in the mournland.
WolfHati
05-17-07, 01:08 AM But the trick is to get into the hole without letting any of the Mournland miasma in...

If I'm DMing, the only trick like that to avoid the effect is Magnificent Mansion, since it specifically states that no outside conditions affect the area.

So... um... get a high level Dragonmark Heir of House Ghallanda?
Cifer
05-17-07, 05:58 AM @Akuma
You need at least a portable hole (or a rope trick) to do that. Bags of holding and HHHs are definitely not big enough.
AkumaDaimyo
05-17-07, 06:02 AM Actually some bags of holding are indeed big enough.
Vharuck
05-17-07, 01:27 PM The reason there's a difference is because of the large amount of worrying by DMs and players alike when they thought of adventuring in the Mournlands, followed by the actual experiences of those DMs and players once they really did.

It's very, very deadly.

So, as far as I can tell, the writers and designers of Eberron are attempting to lessen the whallop the Mournland's "no healing" rule can pack.
OgreBane99
05-18-07, 03:23 PM In the campaign I'm setting up now, I'm having my PCs go to the Mournland at about 8th-9th level. I wrote up rules that require casters to make specific spellcraft checks to cast arcane spells (since it said the Mournland was made by an "arcane disaster"). Since having no healing in a full adventure set in the Mournland would be not fun at all, I'm having a little bit harder Spellcraft check needed to cast any spell of the conjuration (healing) school. Natural healing won't work. And divination spells are hard too.
Toloran
05-20-07, 02:56 AM There are actually quite a few ways around the no healing spell limitation:

The main (core) method is goodberries since they each heal 1 hp, it is a low level spell (so you can cast it a few times without worrying about wasting spells). The main problem is that it is limited to 8 HP a day per player.

The second core method is using the Lay on Hands ability of the Paladin (Hey! A use for paladins! =P). A related trick is using the Touch of Healing (or whatever it is called) ability of the Dragon Shaman.

Another method is from Five Nations which is goodberry wine. Same thing as the goodberries, but more compact (and quicker since it is all 8 at once instead of 1 at a time).

Then there is using Psionics to heal via Empathic Transfer + vigor or body adjustment.

The last method (I can think of) is the Crusader from Tome of Battle and their strikes that heal you and your allies.

That's just directly healing for situations where hopping in to an extradimensional space just isn't feasible :)
kentonblack
05-24-07, 11:18 PM @ toloran

HMM, sounds to me like there are quite a FEW ways around this mind-boggling rediculousness called "no-healing in the mournlands"

(BTW thanks for the book reference. I couldnt FOR THE LIFE OF ME find goodberry wine)
JulesCARV
05-25-07, 03:51 AM Vigor and empathic transfer do, indeed, work, but I'd rule that body adjustment doesn't, because it's psychometabolism (healing) -- i.e., of the healing subdiscipline, which is close enough to the healing subschool to disqualify it in my view.

The best healer in the mournlands is a warforged shaper or egoist with empathic transfer and psionic repair damage. (and vigor, share pain, a psicrystal, etc). That can't be achieved until level 5, though, since psionic repair damage and empathic transfer are both level 2 discipline powers from seperate disciplines. In fact, given that most warforged psions are unlikely to be optimized for Mournland healing in this manner, it's unlikely to be really practical until level 7, when the party can start badgering their warforged psion to psychicly reform herself into (temporarily) having the appropriate powers for the mournland expedition.
gensuke626
05-25-07, 08:46 PM I believe that Five Nations also mentions that Rope Trick is enough to get you out of the Mournlands to heal people. So we have:
Good berries and Goodberry Wine
Lay on Hands
Rope Trick and Magnificent Mansion
Psionics (I can't remember if FN said that all psionic worked or not)
Aid and it's ilk for the Temporary HP...
The Fonts of healing that pop up (if you use Five Nations)

Now, We just have to figure out if the Healing Touch Reserve feat works in the Mournlands...
tallric_kruush
05-25-07, 09:34 PM In the campaign I'm setting up now, I'm having my PCs go to the Mournland at about 8th-9th level. I wrote up rules that require casters to make specific spellcraft checks to cast arcane spells (since it said the Mournland was made by an "arcane disaster"). Since having no healing in a full adventure set in the Mournland would be not fun at all, I'm having a little bit harder Spellcraft check needed to cast any spell of the conjuration (healing) school. Natural healing won't work. And divination spells are hard too.

I like this a lot. It makes so much sense that I can't believe it wasn't designed this way in the first place. I will likely adopt this houserule as my own. Well done, sir. :pint:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pnigro 05-16-07, 10:58 AM	The Eberron Campaign Setting says that spells with Healing descriptor and natural healing do not work in the Mournlands. The Player's Guide to Eberron only says that spells with Healing descriptor don't work. Which is correct? Supernatural and extraordinary healing (like paladin healing ability) would work in the Mournlands. With no healing spells and no natural healing, the Mournlands are almost too dangerous for a low level party (level 2 - 3). Shadows of the Last War is for level 2 characters and they must go into the Mournlands. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
Cifer 05-16-07, 12:45 PM	The Eberron Campaign Setting says that spells with Healing descriptor and natural healing do not work in the Mournlands. The Player's Guide to Eberron only says that spells with Healing descriptor don't work. Which is correct? When in doubt or contradiction, always refer to the core of D&D, then the core of the setting, then everything else. Meaning: No healing with healing descriptor and no natural healing. No healing spells is not quite correct, by the way: Druidic goodberries are a prime way of getting at least some HP back. Has your party a WF or can you hire some as mercenaries? Repair spells function fully. Temporary HP as provided by Aid can give you a buffer so you don't need to touch your actual HP. And of course, you better try to evade any combats you can. Otherwise, you can just put one or two other adventures in between the Shadows and the Forge.
Nevarre 05-16-07, 12:56 PM	It's my belief that Shadows of the Last war did not take into account the problem with Healing when it was written. There is no reference to it in the module and it was published before The Five Nations, which first mentioned to 'issue' with healing magic (as I recall). In my game I had Failin have a skin of Goodberry wine that he was prepared to sell to the PCs. The Mournland was tough, but the PCs all survived (just) and they certainly have respect for the danger of the place.
Dragom 05-16-07, 04:19 PM	I believe Kieth confirmed that one. Also saying that the Forgehold was effectively outside of the mournland would work as well.
AkumaDaimyo 05-16-07, 10:34 PM	You can also cast that little sanctuary spell? I forget what its called. It brings up this little place that is in its own pocket dimension and you can rest there and stuff? You can heal in one of those because pocket dimenstions get around the Mournland deal. Hmm so I guess you could put a dude in a bag of holding with the cleric and have them both have air supplies and they could heal that way? Kinda silly but it would indeed work.
Runepriest 05-16-07, 10:53 PM	Portable hole+ bottle of air+ Cleric= healing in the mournland.
WolfHati 05-17-07, 01:08 AM	But the trick is to get into the hole without letting any of the Mournland miasma in... If I'm DMing, the only trick like that to avoid the effect is Magnificent Mansion, since it specifically states that no outside conditions affect the area. So... um... get a high level Dragonmark Heir of House Ghallanda?
Cifer 05-17-07, 05:58 AM	@Akuma You need at least a portable hole (or a rope trick) to do that. Bags of holding and HHHs are definitely not big enough.
AkumaDaimyo 05-17-07, 06:02 AM	Actually some bags of holding are indeed big enough.
Vharuck 05-17-07, 01:27 PM	The reason there's a difference is because of the large amount of worrying by DMs and players alike when they thought of adventuring in the Mournlands, followed by the actual experiences of those DMs and players once they really did. It's very, very deadly. So, as far as I can tell, the writers and designers of Eberron are attempting to lessen the whallop the Mournland's "no healing" rule can pack.
OgreBane99 05-18-07, 03:23 PM	In the campaign I'm setting up now, I'm having my PCs go to the Mournland at about 8th-9th level. I wrote up rules that require casters to make specific spellcraft checks to cast arcane spells (since it said the Mournland was made by an "arcane disaster"). Since having no healing in a full adventure set in the Mournland would be not fun at all, I'm having a little bit harder Spellcraft check needed to cast any spell of the conjuration (healing) school. Natural healing won't work. And divination spells are hard too.
Toloran 05-20-07, 02:56 AM	There are actually quite a few ways around the no healing spell limitation: The main (core) method is goodberries since they each heal 1 hp, it is a low level spell (so you can cast it a few times without worrying about wasting spells). The main problem is that it is limited to 8 HP a day per player. The second core method is using the Lay on Hands ability of the Paladin (Hey! A use for paladins! =P). A related trick is using the Touch of Healing (or whatever it is called) ability of the Dragon Shaman. Another method is from Five Nations which is goodberry wine. Same thing as the goodberries, but more compact (and quicker since it is all 8 at once instead of 1 at a time). Then there is using Psionics to heal via Empathic Transfer + vigor or body adjustment. The last method (I can think of) is the Crusader from Tome of Battle and their strikes that heal you and your allies. That's just directly healing for situations where hopping in to an extradimensional space just isn't feasible :)
kentonblack 05-24-07, 11:18 PM	@ toloran HMM, sounds to me like there are quite a FEW ways around this mind-boggling rediculousness called "no-healing in the mournlands" (BTW thanks for the book reference. I couldnt FOR THE LIFE OF ME find goodberry wine)
JulesCARV 05-25-07, 03:51 AM	Vigor and empathic transfer do, indeed, work, but I'd rule that body adjustment doesn't, because it's psychometabolism (healing) -- i.e., of the healing subdiscipline, which is close enough to the healing subschool to disqualify it in my view. The best healer in the mournlands is a warforged shaper or egoist with empathic transfer and psionic repair damage. (and vigor, share pain, a psicrystal, etc). That can't be achieved until level 5, though, since psionic repair damage and empathic transfer are both level 2 discipline powers from seperate disciplines. In fact, given that most warforged psions are unlikely to be optimized for Mournland healing in this manner, it's unlikely to be really practical until level 7, when the party can start badgering their warforged psion to psychicly reform herself into (temporarily) having the appropriate powers for the mournland expedition.
gensuke626 05-25-07, 08:46 PM	I believe that Five Nations also mentions that Rope Trick is enough to get you out of the Mournlands to heal people. So we have: Good berries and Goodberry Wine Lay on Hands Rope Trick and Magnificent Mansion Psionics (I can't remember if FN said that all psionic worked or not) Aid and it's ilk for the Temporary HP... The Fonts of healing that pop up (if you use Five Nations) Now, We just have to figure out if the Healing Touch Reserve feat works in the Mournlands...
tallric_kruush 05-25-07, 09:34 PM	In the campaign I'm setting up now, I'm having my PCs go to the Mournland at about 8th-9th level. I wrote up rules that require casters to make specific spellcraft checks to cast arcane spells (since it said the Mournland was made by an "arcane disaster"). Since having no healing in a full adventure set in the Mournland would be not fun at all, I'm having a little bit harder Spellcraft check needed to cast any spell of the conjuration (healing) school. Natural healing won't work. And divination spells are hard too. I like this a lot. It makes so much sense that I can't believe it wasn't designed this way in the first place. I will likely adopt this houserule as my own. Well done, sir. :pint: