Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Evenglare 07-22-07, 05:23 PM	My friend says SEE-REE I says SIRE Whats the correct way ?
Samotep 07-22-07, 05:37 PM	I say Sire as well. I think Pyre with an S sound instead...
Syltorian 07-22-07, 06:03 PM	My own tendency is for SIRE, but somewhere in the archives there should be a the Ask Keith Baker threads. I believe he mentioned that to him, it was "SEER-ee". But I think the consensus it is a matter of dialect. The locals call their nation "Seeree", but that doesn't mean everybody else does, too.
Edymnion 07-22-07, 06:30 PM	No, there is not a correct way. Keith's answer on the subject is a bit of a cop-out, actually. "There are many differant accents in Khovaire, and they all pronounce the names differantly." Aka, pronounce it however you want, and just claim thats the way its pronounced wherever you come from. For the record though, I pronounce Cyre as Sear, like what you do to a steak. Rhymes with Beer.
Nevarre 07-22-07, 06:49 PM	I'm completely off the mark then! I've always pronounced it as Ky-re - rhymes with tyre.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-22-07, 08:19 PM	I pronounce it like Edymnion. I was actually going to use the same example.
Identitystolen 07-22-07, 09:19 PM	Personally, I've always went with Sigh-re
Amaril 07-22-07, 10:57 PM	I pronounce it as "sear."
GrimAlchemist 07-23-07, 04:30 AM	Here I've always pronounced the C as a 'K', ending up with "Keer", rhyme with peer.
OctaviusIII 07-23-07, 10:43 AM	I go "sire."
Elderich 07-23-07, 06:01 PM	No, there is not a correct way. Keith's answer on the subject is a bit of a cop-out, actually. "There are many differant accents in Khovaire, and they all pronounce the names differantly." Aka, pronounce it however you want, and just claim thats the way its pronounced wherever you come from. For the record though, I pronounce Cyre as Sear, like what you do to a steak. Rhymes with Beer.We should ask him to clarify HOW areas pronounce it. The we could see where we are from....
ChimericalWolf 07-23-07, 07:24 PM	Sire.
_Radagast_ 07-23-07, 07:25 PM	For the record though, I pronounce Cyre as Sear, like what you do to a steak. Rhymes with Beer. That's how I pronounce it.
lukelightning 07-23-07, 07:52 PM	Easy. Folks originally from Northern Cyre say "Sire," those from Southern Cyre say "Seer." The Karrnathi accent says "Siiiire" with a rolling R, except for some nobles who say "Sigh" in imitation of the various noble families throughout Khorvaire; it is believed that they started saying this to avoid confusing it with the word "sire". Lower class folks, goblinoids, and gnomes say "Sigh-ruh" or See-ruh." Scattered throughout the realm are some so say "Si-RAY" Now I have "Tomato, tomahto, let's call the whole thing off" stuck in my head.
Ozymandias V. 07-24-07, 03:49 AM	Obviously the Mourning happened when everyone got sick of trying to figure out how to pronounce Cyre.
Millenia 07-24-07, 04:42 AM	I pronounce it like sire. Obviously the Mourning happened when everyone got sick of trying to figure out how to pronounce Cyre. Or maybe the Mourning happened when King Boranel got sick of trying to figure out how to pronou-... maybe I should take that to another thread instead of derailing it. >>
Wymarc 07-24-07, 09:18 AM	I'm completely off the mark then! I've always pronounced it as Ky-re - rhymes with tyre. same
Koesherbacon 07-24-07, 11:33 AM	I always thought it was Kire as well. Ok that's a lie, since I read it through my dyslexic brain as "Crye" and thusly pronounced it "Kry" until my girlfriend corrected me. I still think that "Kry" sounds better :)
Darth Syntax 07-26-07, 02:25 AM	I personally pronounce it as Kair [kaɪɹ] but I so tend to vary my pronunciation when in character. My Inquistive from Karrlakton pronunces as Kyair [kʲaɪɾʲ] whilst those from Thrane tend to pronounce it more like 'chair'. At no point, however, does the 'c' ever come out sounding like an 's'.
Nevarre 07-26-07, 03:19 PM	No, there is not a correct way. Keith's answer on the subject is a bit of a cop-out, actually. "There are many differant accents in Khovaire, and they all pronounce the names differantly." Aka, pronounce it however you want, and just claim thats the way its pronounced wherever you come from. I'm no language expert, but I have a problem with the school of thought that the same Proper Noun spoken in the same language (in this case the 'Common' trade language) is going to be pronounced in wildly different ways. The way I see it, whether it's pronounced Seer, Sire, Kyre, Keeree, or whatever, it's going to be pronounced the one way the people of Cyre pronounced it when they met and traded with others, and that usage will spread across the continent over time. People mis-mispronouncing it will be constantly corrected by traders from Cyre: "Where are you from?" "Sire" "You mean Seer?" "No I mean Sire, you idiot. It's my country!" Sure, there are going to be minor inflections as the native tongue of the speaker can be heard as their 'common' accent, but for a name as important as the name of a country, I think that there would be an established agreement on the correct form. Just my 2 cps..
TiwazTyrsfist 07-26-07, 06:13 PM	Yes, because that logic holds both for Nippon and Deuchland. For the less well rounded, that's Japan and Germany.
Elderich 07-26-07, 06:35 PM	Yes, because that logic holds both for Nippon and Deuchland. For the less well rounded, that's Japan and Germany.And the Germans, who call themselves something that sounds just like "Dutch", are actually not Dutch, as the Dutch are from Holland, (Do not call them "hollandaise"). Note that those from Holland would say they are from [the] "netherland," which you have to wonder if it actually exists.
Darth Syntax 07-26-07, 07:25 PM	Given the extreme size and relative antiquity of the Galifaran state, it is more than likely that the Galifaran language is actually a dialect continuum in which there is a relatively high degree of variation. Look at modern Arabic which has both a literary standard form and a huge array of mutually non-intelligible dialects. Or look at the relation between standard Italian and the many regional languages in Italy. It is more than likely that a lower class citizen of Sharn and someone of the same social class from Karrlakton would have rather a hard time understanding each other to the point that if it were not for political reasons they would be classified as separate, but related, languages. By the same token, the educated populous would be able to employ a more standardized form of the language in conversation, but it would be very unlike their home dialect.
Nevarre 07-26-07, 07:29 PM	Yes, because that logic holds both for Nippon and Deuchland. For the less well rounded, that's Japan and Germany. My point is that I'm referring to everyone speaking one language. The 'common' tongue. I could understand if everyone was talking different languages (Japanese, German, and English to follow your example). But unless someone tells me otherwise this is one language.
Nevarre 07-26-07, 07:35 PM	Given the extreme size and relative antiquity of the Galifaran state, it is more than likely that the Galifaran language is actually a dialect continuum in which there is a relatively high degree of variation. Look at modern Arabic which has both a literary standard form and a huge array of mutually non-intelligible dialects. Or look at the relation between standard Italian and the many regional languages in Italy. It is more than likely that a lower class citizen of Sharn and someone of the same social class from Karrlakton would have rather a hard time understanding each other to the point that if it were not for political reasons they would be classified as separate, but related, languages. By the same token, the educated populous would be able to employ a more standardized form of the language in conversation, but it would be very unlike their home dialect. Good points! It seems to me that the 'convenience' of the Common tongue, undermines the historical growth of languages across the continent. Referencing the many dialects of Italian, do all the different speakers refer to 'Milano' as 'Milano' or are there wildly different pronunciation's, but with same spelling? This isn't something I had considered.
Darth Syntax 07-26-07, 07:52 PM	In the Lombard dialect, Milan is actually "Milan". In standard (Florentine-derived) Italian it is Milano. The same holds true of Turin, which is "Turin" in the native dialect and Torino is standard Italian.
Edymnion 07-27-07, 08:13 PM	I'm no language expert, but I have a problem with the school of thought that the same Proper Noun spoken in the same language (in this case the 'Common' trade language) is going to be pronounced in wildly different ways.Heh, nothing personal, but get out in the real world and look at how people pronounce placenames. For example, here near my home town we have two towns, LaFayette and Whitewell. How do you think they are pronounced? The way the people living in them pronounce these city names is "Luh-FAY-et" and "WHUT-wul". Khovaire is roughly the size of the continental United States. Just look at the differant ways someone from the south, New Jersey, and Los Angeles would pronounce the same words. Its not odd, its not even uncommon. I mean, hell, even on a smaller scale than that, my family pronounces our last name 3 differant ways, and thats just our immediant family.
Nevarre 07-28-07, 08:47 AM	Heh, nothing personal, but get out in the real world and look at how people pronounce placenames. Heh. I do, I just guess that I've either not witnessed it or not noticed it.
The_Gimp 07-29-07, 10:34 AM	I personnaly pronounce "Cyre" Sea-Ray, I guess that having french as my mother tongue helped me in saying it that way hehe. But hey, whatever people say, no one's totally right or wrong, it's just the differences and influences between languages and regional differences that comes coloring a language. Just the same as people from Boston saying "Park" a different way than someone from Texas or New York! ;)
Koesherbacon 07-29-07, 01:32 PM	I agree, The_Gimp. What it comes down to is however its pronounced in your own adventure. Its your game, after all.
satyre 07-31-07, 11:08 AM	I have to say I pronounce it like Sire. Though I feel Seer might be more correct. Either way I prefer the S sound to the K sound. To really get to the bottom of this... or maybe to confuse things even further. What are people from Cyre called, items? Cyran? (Sigh-ran) Cyrian? (See-ree-an) Cyrite? (Sigh-er-rite) This might help us understand the pronunciation.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-31-07, 11:35 PM	I'm telling you, Cyre - Sear. Cyran - Searan.
Identitystolen 08-01-07, 12:20 AM	Huh, my text to speech program pronounces it as 'Sire' I still like 'Sigh-re' though :P
SkyOdin 08-01-07, 08:51 PM	Sire here.
TheKeyofE 08-02-07, 10:34 AM	I've always pronounced it "sire," and my DM does, too. We both started saying it that way before we met each other, so we both came to the same conclusion separately. And actually, I kind of came to that conclusion in a backwards manner. RE:satyre and Tiwaz, I couldn't figure out how to pronounce Cyre by itself, but looking at someone from Cyre being called a Cyran, I automatically pronounced that "sigh-ran," so I figured Cyre must be "sire." On a different but related note, how do you say "quori?" I've been saying it "core-ee" like the name Corey. But it doesn't feel right for some reason. Do you guys think there's more of a "w" in it, like "kwor-ee," almost like "quarry?"
The_Gimp 08-02-07, 10:52 AM	Yeah I say "Kwor-ee" too. Makes more sense than "Core-ee" ;)
satyre 08-02-07, 11:13 AM	I... On a different but related note, how do you say "quori?" I've been saying it "core-ee" like the name Corey. But it doesn't feel right for some reason. Do you guys think there's more of a "w" in it, like "kwor-ee," almost like "quarry?" Yeah I say "Kwor-ee" too. Makes more sense than "Core-ee" ;) Agreed. I would pronounce it as "Kwor-ee", like "quarry".
Ogiwan 08-02-07, 11:33 AM	I pronouce it Sire, and Sigh-ren. I pronounce it Kwor-ee. On the topic of people pronouncing place names in interesting ways, I live in Connecticut. One of the towns there is Greenwich. The logical pronounciations I can see are "Green-witch" and "Green-wick". It's pronounced by natives as "GREN-itch".
TheKeyofE 08-02-07, 11:54 AM	It's probably because Greenwich, Connecticut is named after Greenwich, England a la "Greenwich Mean Time" or where all the timezones are measured from. In Greenwich, England, they pronounce it "gren-itch," (why? because they have wacky british accents) so the Connecticans (is that correct usage?) probably got it from there. But while we're on the subject, what's up with your state's name? Why is it "con-net-i-cut" instead of "con-NECT-i-cut," like it's spelled? There's a town near my home, Mantua, named after Mantua (or Mantova, depending on the dialect) in Lombardy, Italy. Italians pronounce it "man-too-a," like it's spelled. Locals call it "man-a-way." Explain that one to me.
ArcTan 08-03-07, 04:06 AM	My point is that I'm referring to everyone speaking one language. The 'common' tongue. I could understand if everyone was talking different languages (Japanese, German, and English to follow your example). But unless someone tells me otherwise this is one language. So when an Oxford scholar says "Germany" and leaves out the R -- because his Received Pronunciation is a non-rhotic accent -- and I say "Germany" and leave in the R -- because my standard Northeast American accent is rhotic -- one of us is wrong and one of us is right? Pray tell, who? Cyran traders might try to tell people "It's my country and you'll say it the way we say it!", if they were jerks. It wouldn't work. No one's ever stopped me from saying "Britain" with a glottal stop ("Brih'un") instead of the sharp "t" an RP speaker would use ("BriTain"). No one probably could, because if I said that I'd sound weird. In fact, although nowadays it's in fashion for an educated First Worlder to sound cosmopolitan and mimic the accents of other languages or dialects when using their loanwords, taken to an extreme it still sounds pretentious and dumb, which is why it was *not* the fashion in older time periods. Shakespeare pronounced the name "Jacques" as "Jack-quezz"; the poem "Don Juan" pronounces "Juan" as "Joo-ann"; etc. And, frankly, I say "Brighton" as "Brih-un" instead of "Broy'on" or "Brite-un" because I am an American from the Northeast and *not* from Brighton or from Oxford, and I see no reason to pretend I am. Nor would a Brelander take kindly to being told he should pronounce Cyre the Cyran way -- especially since the Cyran nation is destroyed and disgraced and has no right to be making demands of anybody.
Johnpocalypse 08-03-07, 04:32 AM	I pronounce Cyre like this: MOURNLAND! Like More-n-L-and. Cyre is dead. Long live Karrnath!
bykov1 08-03-07, 08:53 AM	From day one......Sear. However, if you use english as a reference, most common words that start cy- are pronounced as a soft "c" followed by a long "i"......cyan, cyclops, cyanide, cyborg, cyberspace, cycle, cypress....etc. All others I saw are soft "c", short "i". I say tomato, you say it wrong... Bykov.
Koesherbacon 08-03-07, 09:22 AM	I understand that linguistically "Cy" is generally pronounced as a soft "S", but I think the hard "C" or "Kuh" just sounds better.
satyre 08-03-07, 11:43 AM	I understand that linguistically "Cy" is generally pronounced as a soft "S", but I think the hard "C" or "Kuh" just sounds better. The "Kuh" makes it sound like some cheesy nu-metal band, to me at least it does.
Koesherbacon 08-03-07, 12:03 PM	Well it comes with my original reading of the word. Due to my dyslexia I reversed some of the letters and ended up perceiving it as the word "Crye", which would have had the hard "K" sound. Then when I realized it actually was spelled "Cyre" it was already ingrained in my mind how it was pronounced. So I guess my pronunciation is just a special case and shouldn't really be applicable in this thread ;)
Ogiwan 08-03-07, 01:49 PM	It's probably because Greenwich, Connecticut is named after Greenwich, England a la "Greenwich Mean Time" or where all the timezones are measured from. In Greenwich, England, they pronounce it "gren-itch," (why? because they have wacky british accents) so the Connecticans (is that correct usage?) probably got it from there. But while we're on the subject, what's up with your state's name? Why is it "con-net-i-cut" instead of "con-NECT-i-cut," like it's spelled? There's a town near my home, Mantua, named after Mantua (or Mantova, depending on the dialect) in Lombardy, Italy. Italians pronounce it "man-too-a," like it's spelled. Locals call it "man-a-way." Explain that one to me. You're probably right about the lingering British pronounciation of Greenwich. As for why Connecticut is pronounced the way it is.....I blame the Indians. Or someone. I dunno. On a similar vein, I don't know what a denizen of CT is referred to as. It could be a Connecticutian (CONN-et-e-cut-ian), Connecticutite (CONN-et-e-cut-ite), or a Nutmegger. Also, in Pennsylvania, there's a town spelled, Passyunk, but it is pronounced "Paw-shunk" (i believe, according to the SEPTA sign mocking this.). I think it might just be indian names.
Seghan 08-03-07, 02:00 PM	I am siding with the sear folks, with with some regional accents saying sire or even sigh-ruh (the latter most common in Darguun). And adding to the repository of real world names, how about Worcester, Massachusetts; pronounced more like wuster (or wustuh if you're local). New England in general is a great library of wonky pronunciation.
Ogiwan 08-03-07, 02:04 PM	Oh how could I forget Wooster. On a similar vein, down in Philadelphia, it's not "Water", WAH-ter, it is Wooder, WOOD-er.
satyre 08-03-07, 02:23 PM	You're probably right about the lingering British pronounciation of Greenwich. As for why Connecticut is pronounced the way it is.....I blame the Indians. Or someone. I dunno. On a similar vein, I don't know what a denizen of CT is referred to as. It could be a Connecticutian (CONN-et-e-cut-ian), Connecticutite (CONN-et-e-cut-ite), or a Nutmegger. Also, in Pennsylvania, there's a town spelled, Passyunk, but it is pronounced "Paw-shunk" (i believe, according to the SEPTA sign mocking this.). I think it might just be indian names. Connecticons, more than meets the eye!
ArcTan 08-03-07, 04:18 PM	I understand that linguistically "Cy" is generally pronounced as a soft "S", but I think the hard "C" or "Kuh" just sounds better. That really depends on the language. In English we have come to pronounce the name "Cyril" with a soft C, but the Greek name on which that name is based -- for instance, the St. Cyril who gave his name to the Cyrillic alphabet -- would've actually been pronounced with a hard "C", since the C is representing the Greek letter chi. And the "Y" would be pronounced like "uh" instead of "eye", because it represents the Greek letter upsilon. The English word "cybernetics", for instance, comes from the Greek word "kubernites" (steersman), and to give you an idea of how wacky language evolution can be, that same word "kubernites" is also the origin of the Latin word "gubernator" and eventually our words "governor" and "government". The "guh" in "governor" is much closer to the original way the word sounded than the "sigh" in "cybernetic". So you can make an argument either way for what the most lingusitically "natural" way for an English speaker to read "Cyre" is. In fact, you can make an argument for both -- that, if we're supposed to take the written word "Cyre" as being similar to something written with a "cy" in real life, it might in fact be like ancient Greek words that would've been pronounced with a hard sound authentically that, thanks to the way transliteration works, ended up being pronounced with a soft sound by many modern "Common" speakers (say, in Breland). Pedantic Cyrans might correct them and keep telling people it's really called "Kuh-ray" and not "Sigh-er", but, really, who's going to listen, now that they're all dead?
AntiSean 08-03-07, 05:03 PM	You're probably right about the lingering British pronounciation of Greenwich. As for why Connecticut is pronounced the way it is.....I blame the Indians. Or someone. I dunno. On a similar vein, I don't know what a denizen of CT is referred to as. It could be a Connecticutian (CONN-et-e-cut-ian), Connecticutite (CONN-et-e-cut-ite), or a Nutmegger. Googling around, http://dictionary.reference.com/writing/styleguide/states.html states that 'Connecticuter' is the 'official' term. 'Connecticutian' seems to be in common usage (Wikipedia uses it, but that's by no means authoritative), and I vaguely remember being told that it was the correct term when I was a young lad growing up in the Constitution State. I've usually used 'Nutmegger', as it's somewhat less unwieldy, although possibly a bit obtuse. 'Connecticut' is allegedly derived from the Mohican quinnitukqut "at the long tidal river." Back on topic, I pronounce 'Cyre' just the way it's spelled. ;)
XRedJasonX 08-04-07, 02:33 AM	No, there is not a correct way. Keith's answer on the subject is a bit of a cop-out, actually. "There are many differant accents in Khovaire, and they all pronounce the names differantly." Aka, pronounce it however you want, and just claim thats the way its pronounced wherever you come from. For the record though, I pronounce Cyre as Sear, like what you do to a steak. Rhymes with Beer. "Sear". That's how I pronounce it.
ZappoHisbane 08-04-07, 04:31 PM	Put me squarely in the Sire camp here. Got there via the Cyran route as mentioned above. My favorite example of wacky placename pronounciations has to be the English town my grandparents lived in. Spelt Wymondham. Pronounced whin-dom. Don't ask me, I dont' get it either. :P
Koesherbacon 08-04-07, 09:04 PM	Well its like "Lester Square" which is spelled "Leicester Square"
TheRedRobedWizard 08-05-07, 09:30 PM	Country: Sigh-ree People from that country: Seer-an Things from that country: Sigh-rish No idea why I pronounce them like that, being Welsh, that should most likely be a hard C/K sound. *shrug* -TRRW
Itzchy 08-08-07, 12:27 PM	Sai-Ray for me.
InkBlot 08-10-07, 07:19 PM	Sire. I pronounce it exactly like the word sire. This isn't a problem for me, because I hardly ever use the word sire. I think I've used the word sire at least 5 times more in this post than I have all year.
TheKeyofE 08-10-07, 08:33 PM	Ooooo...I just had an evil thought. A "who's on first?" sketch, Eb style. "Constable?" "Sire!" "What was the name of that country that got destroyed?" "Cyre?" "Yes, what was the name of it?" "Cyre." "Are you gonna tell me or are you just gonna sit there saying 'sire?'" "I'm telling you, sire." "Well, what is it?" "Cyre."
bykov1 08-20-07, 08:58 AM	Googling around, http://dictionary.reference.com/writing/styleguide/states.html states that 'Connecticuter' is the 'official' term. 'Connecticutian' seems to be in common usage ... Isn't that what happens to an inmate after he is sent to the connectric chair? Bykov.
Garden_State_Gamer 08-22-07, 04:38 PM	Heh, nothing personal, but get out in the real world and look at how people pronounce placenames. The way the people living in them pronounce these city names is "Luh-FAY-et" and "WHUT-wul". Versailles and Athens -- If you are living in my old Kentucky home, you would pronounce them "Ver-SALES" and "EY-thuns" (like saying Hey without the H) And for what it's worth, I call it "Sigh-er" like Sire with more of a halt between the first and last part.