Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilClosetMonkey 03-18-07, 10:10 PM	I have a friend (actually 2) who is playing D&D for the 1st time (on pencil & paper). I have been dropped from the original campaign 'cause I have a problem with Eberron characters reaching 12lvl with no problems. This campaign( and those that follow) are like Forgotten Realms type crap. "I'm 20th lvl, no reprecussions for me being here, I can do what I wish, watch me be all powerful!!!" Bull-crappy!! In Eberron! Yes the DM and players may do what they wish, but c'mon! This is Eberron! Eberron was created to give those gamers who had style some fun. A place to play and be stylish, have some fun! By fun I mean not 20th lvl "I'm all powerful" fun. Anyone agree!?!? I like hard-style DM'ing. You don't just hand the rewards to the char, you make them actually work for it! Use their brains!! What'd'y'all say? I mean 1 char has been raisein' ppl at least 1/session. Often times more. AND she's Silver Flame! *Sigh* Done my rant.... this topic sucks frankly, sorry to burden you with this.... If interested, pls reply, would like to know if I'm alone. Concerned...
law 03-18-07, 10:16 PM	Hehe I know what can solve that. Have them fight againt something thats still way far out from what they can do. Whip out an epic character. Mess with them, make them under stand that you might have a total of 20 for level does not mean your all that. Plus making this happen in eberron could be some fun all right.
Lucas_Garczewski 03-18-07, 10:29 PM	I have a friend (actually 2) who is playing D&D for the 1st time (on pencil & paper). I have been dropped from the original campaign 'cause I have a problem with Eberron characters reaching 12lvl with no problems. This campaign( and those that follow) are like Forgotten Realms type crap. Actually, I'd call the type of campaign you described 'crap' in any setting, FR included. Read on. Eberron was created to give those gamers who had style some fun. A place to play and be stylish, have some fun! By fun I mean not 20th lvl "I'm all powerful" fun. Well... Being all powerful is fun. But only: a) for short periods of time (a session or two as epic characters can be refreshing, I suppose) OR b) if you've actually worked hard to get there (as you've noted yourself) If none of this conditions is met, then yes, there is a problem. But hey... You don't play that game anymore so it's not really your problem now, is it? :) What'd'y'all say? I mean 1 char has been raisein' ppl at least 1/session. Often times more. AND she's Silver Flame! Now *that* is not Eberron.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 03-18-07, 10:31 PM	Hitting 20 in ebberon should be only the start of your problems. those big untouchable evils like the Dragons, Dealkyr, the quori? they just started taking you seriously. Hope you can cope with that, and your frends loved ones ect too. And high level foes in Ebberon can be quite plasuable, it dosent take that many charicter levels spooned over a rakasha or the like to make something that will scare any player bright enough to know fear.
skyranger14 03-19-07, 12:28 AM	EvilClosetMonkey, Obviously that gaming group had a different style and vision than what you like. So, in having fun they "altered" the setting and made Eberron into a high power romp.....where's the harm in that? I also don't see the problem with constantly raising characters; not only does it cost alot of GP, until your cleric reaches higher levels it can also cost a substancial amount of XP. Too much like a video game? Maybe, but I'm willing to bet most people (me included) will choose to raise their characters (even with the XP and GP cost) rather than start a new one (unless the player wants to change PC's).
Swordsage_Master 03-19-07, 01:05 AM	I think I understand. I gamed and Dm'ed FR since it came out. I got really burned out on it in the years leading up to Eberron. Eberron was like a fresh drink of water. I found a spark again, and have all but put away my FR stuff. I may get it out again one day but I am hooked on Eberron right now. I think I enjoy my characters more at low and mid levels than any other level. I feel like 1st to 10th level is the shaping formative years of any character. When I played FR we got to the point where we were hurrying thru the mid levels and bypassing the low levels altogether sometimes. All this so our PC's could compete with the FR threats. With Eberron I was able to find the joy in a challenging campaign world where I could develope a PC without having to hurry them through to high levels. I think by doing what you describe, your fellow players and the DM are short changing themselves of an often times overlooked area of opportunity. The opportunity to really develop fleshed out characters with real story's behind them and frankly, just good old fashion fun.
goblin_pride 03-19-07, 01:28 AM	I personally always liked levels 4-6 and that's just about right for a powerful PC in Eberron. The characters are just starting to gain a bit of reknown, just beginning to reach the point where the locals are taking notice of them. Much past that and the common people start coming to them for every problem that comes along, but at 4-6 they're just beginning to see the PCs as heroes.
MetaEidolon 03-19-07, 02:15 AM	As both a DM and a Player in Eberron, I feel your pain. My gaming group has done a number of thing to make sure that this does not happen. 1) We don't use the standard XP system. This gives level escalation directly to the DM. If I feel it is time for a PC to gain a level, they do, and not until then. XP, as loosly as it is used, is based on roleplaying, world creation, and character development. Oftentimes, a small or intangible change to the character will fulfill the need for a new level; (eg, a personalized or very fitting magic item; a new spell-like ability offset by an ECL; a change in rank or status that gives power that can not be rated by the rules, but creates new story possibilities) 2) Eberron is more about the world than the PCs, and we encourage our players to help create the world. Each PC is required to have a "3x3x3" (3 friends, 3 allies/contacts, 3 enemies). These NPCs are very detailed. After almost 3 years of playing in Eberron, we have a vast library of NPC that show up on a regular basis. This leads to a sense of 'ownership' of the world that even a level 20 PC wouldn't have. 3) We switch DMs and Players every few months, so while we keep telling stories and building the world, PCs never get too powerful to handle. Good luck and happy gaming!
johnkretzer 03-19-07, 03:30 AM	1:The kind of campaign you described is poor in any world. 2: A cleric of the Silver Flame would bring back someone who isn't a worshipper of the Silver Flame. Atleast I can see reason why they would.
korcheck 03-20-07, 02:07 PM	I'm sorry but from my own personal experience only I have to disagree. I have only recently had a character reach a level above 7th (actually we just reached 10th) until this character every time we were close to 7th or 8th the dm's would switch in our group and we would never play those characters again. It was anoying to say the least this happened mainly because our group are like labrador retreivers we might be inteligent but have the attention spans of gnats, BALL, BONE, LASER ON THE WALL, HEY, I HAVE A GREAT IDEA FOR A NEW CAMPAIGN!!!! and it always required starting with new characters. I was able to get characters to 9th as a DM before switching campaigns but switched back to these characters so for me and my group it will be refreshing to see what a high level character is since until now the mysterious 10th lvl we were all convinced was a legend and a myth.
ArcTan 03-24-07, 07:45 PM	1:The kind of campaign you described is poor in any world. 2: A cleric of the Silver Flame would bring back someone who isn't a worshipper of the Silver Flame. Atleast I can see reason why they would. They would certainly make an effort to save your life. But raise dead is powerful magic and uses up precious resources. You can't assume they'd do it any more than you can assume that your local Catholic church will save up the money for your kidney transplant.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-24-07, 10:19 PM	When it comes to ones who're essentially working daily routines in the hierarchy, yes. However, adventuring clerics are an exception to many rules, and this is one of those cases. It's probably not unusual for an adventuring cleric to use Raise Dead to benefit other members of his adventuring party. It's just that there aren't many adventuring clerics who're capable of casting it.
johnkretzer 03-25-07, 07:30 PM	They would certainly make an effort to save your life. But raise dead is powerful magic and uses up precious resources. You can't assume they'd do it any more than you can assume that your local Catholic church will save up the money for your kidney transplant. Leaving aside real world religions for a sec. It could be important enough for a adventuring cleric of the silver Flame to do so simply because 1) a adventurer Cleric has much more resouces then a standard church. 2) Sure saving somebody life is important but saving a soul is so much more. Not saying it was likely but I could definitly see it. 3) Your local Catholic Church doesn't go out and fight monsters with you and such...things like that causes bonds to grow. Like I said before it is only possible not probable.
Kreistor2 03-26-07, 12:32 AM	Eberron was created to give those gamers who had style some fun. No. Eberron was created to give all gamers some fun.
Knightstar 03-26-07, 01:56 AM	I have a friend (actually 2) who is playing D&D for the 1st time (on pencil & paper). I have been dropped from the original campaign 'cause I have a problem with Eberron characters reaching 12lvl with no problems. This campaign( and those that follow) are like Forgotten Realms type crap. Out of curiosity what exactly do you mean by "no problems". seriously, did they start at 5th level and were literally handed a level a session or was it something else? or did they work themselves up from 1st and didnt really interact all that much with the world or what? because by the time you hit that 12th level mark, you get ready for a serious ramping up in what kind of threats the characts should be facing. (at least IMO) i mean personally, ive been running my Eberron campaign now for (egads! has it really been this long?) two years and the originals are now hitting 13th/14th level while some other latecomers are cresting 11th/12th level. while im planning on wrapping the game (at least temporarily) within the next few months, i would like to see what happens with high level characters running around. but thats me.
DarkangelUziel 03-26-07, 02:40 PM	Well, I haven't read all comments, but that seems like a problem I know. I've been playing D&D for about 15 years now and we're kinda the powerplay kinda of players. At least most of us are. I must admit ... I too am a power player although I leave that path from time to time. I'm gonna start an Eberron campaign in two hours and plan to make a great campaign out of it since I know Eberron can be a magnificent setting. One of the decisions I made wa sthat NPC's will keep growing in level as well. Not all of them, but the major characters in Ebberon will raise in levels along with the PC's, but at half pace. This way, the PC's won't be too powerfull when reaching 12th-15th level and they won't be all-powerfull when they are 20th level. It's a lot of work to keep NOC's updated, but it does the trick for me. In the end I think it's about what style of play you choose. If the entire group of players want a power-play campaign and they enjoy it, then it's no problem I think, although it's too bad that so much potential of the Eberron campaign is wasted.
DwarfPcfan 03-29-07, 01:23 PM	An encounter with a well played Daelkyr agent can be just the lesson those players need... Or the Lords of Dust... Or the dreaming dark... Or the undying court... Vol.... Etc, etc
JustX 03-29-07, 09:10 PM	I heard this saying once "If you're the only one that sees a problem, then maybe the only problem is you."
Archangel62 03-30-07, 01:53 AM	In Eberron characters can reach high levels, the reason is more than simple mechanics. The reason is that to me the purpose is that players are the ones who are set to shape and change the world of Eberron, they are supposed to be more the main focus of the campaign not the NPC.
BlackTiger 04-04-07, 02:37 AM	I am running concurrent, overlapping 7/8th and 12/13th games set in Eberron. The low level party is engaging the Dreaming Dark in Sharn, while the High level party is exploring The Khrall in hopes of finding an artifact to defeat a powerful living spell emerging from the Mournland. The high level party has already saved House Lyrandar and Queen Aurala from a half-dragons assassination plot, and the low level party just put down the ancient evil they almost woke up in Xen'Drik, hopefully for good... What does this show? Different strokes at different levels. And, even though minor plots could be solved by higher level PCs, they are busy with other things most of the time...
Logos7 04-04-07, 10:42 AM	Level 12 is out of leaque for eberron, thanks for letting the rest of us know, here we were letting the whole cs down . I've run past level 12 in eberron, no major consequences, the PC's enter a new level of special. I had them fighting a patch of bamboo that doubles in size every week, Half Fiendish Bamboo. They Found it in the Krall when they were fighting were tigers. They finished the campeign after leading a Rajah to a well of infinite wishes which he promptly drank dry, and they got the drops left over, In a floating forgotten GIant *** Elven City. Sounds like eberron to me, admittedly their's been a bit more politics and rp then in my brief discription. But all together it comes down to different strokes for different folks, who are you to tell people they playing wrong. As for your cleric, let her raise to her hearts content, the con loss is unhealable and will catch up with them soon than later in my expericance. Who knows maybe her cleric is just in it for the kewl powers and is currupt to the bone or just has a very interesting intrepetation of what it means to raise the dead. I thought the idea behind eberron was unpredictability, not a wanna be low magic campeign but unpredictable pulp But anyway thanks for letting me know i'm playing wrongn, I appreciate it Logos