Joining the Tyrants [Archive] - Wizards Community

Joining the Tyrants [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Need_A_Life
06-01-07, 07:01 PM How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)?

One can't very well go around asking for them and expect to be contacted, I assume? You'd be drawing too much attention to yourself and be unworthy of their time.

If you're good enough to join them, then they shouldn't be able to find you. A good disguise and/or bluff would make sure that they'd never point you out in a crowd (my current character has - at level 3 - +22 to disguise and +12 to bluff).

Generally, it seems they'd be impossible to locate.

So, I am stuck. I want to join them the next time our group is in Sharn, but I don't know how to get to speak with one of them.

Thank you in advance!
naturax
06-01-07, 11:18 PM Stories don't come from game mechanics. Game mechanics exist to make stories go. If it serves the plot for a member of the Tyrants to notice your character (because they know what to look for, not because they have +X spot modifier) then they notice your character and everyone can move on in the story.

Letting game mechanics hold you back from doing things you want your character to do is an easy trap to fall into, and it hurts me when I'm planning games sometimes, but there's this great quote from the writer of Babylon5 that I think of often. Some fan asked how fast the ships go and he replied "they travel at the speed of plot" - if they need to be 3 days away, they're 3 days away, and assigning a number to them is pointless.
Shady314
06-02-07, 01:26 AM How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)?

One can't very well go around asking for them and expect to be contacted, I assume? You'd be drawing too much attention to yourself and be unworthy of their time.

If you're good enough to join them, then they shouldn't be able to find you. A good disguise and/or bluff would make sure that they'd never point you out in a crowd (my current character has - at level 3 - +22 to disguise and +12 to bluff).

Generally, it seems they'd be impossible to locate.

So, I am stuck. I want to join them the next time our group is in Sharn, but I don't know how to get to speak with one of them.
Thank you in advance!

Why would one assume you can't be recruited by the tyrants and *trained?* Where's the idea come from you can't join an organization till you know absolutely everything that organization does already? Nope you can't join the army unless you bring your own weapon and already know how to fight? ;)

Why would having an amazing disguise or bluff stop you from getting a reputation? Even if it did who's to say the Tyrants with their resources couldn't still find out about you. Thank you divination magic!

Unless you're saying your changeling is incognito every second of his life? In which case yeah that could make it tricky for the tyrants to find you. So knock that off. :)

The tyrants aren't a super secret organization. That's the Cabinet of Faces. So it's not a difficult k. local check to figure out the Tyrants operate brothels in Firelight (assuming you're in Sharn). Go there and look to join. Yes they have standards but show them what you can do and I'm sure you'll get your foot in the door. They're just a criminal organization. They have to let capable people join from time to time or they won't exist for long.
Need_A_Life
06-02-07, 07:48 AM Stories don't come from game mechanics. Game mechanics exist to make stories go.
Having started out in Freeform Roleplaying (where mechanics are as close to non-existant as possible), I am well-aware that one should not let mechanics dictate the story.

If it serves the plot for a member of the Tyrants to notice your character (because they know what to look for, not because they have +X spot modifier) then they notice your character and everyone can move on in the story.
Thing is, it's not part of the overall plot, rather just something my character would like, if only because it'd allow him to ensure a better life for him and his sister.
Next session is Tuesday, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get back to Sharn during that session, I just want some input.

Letting game mechanics hold you back from doing things you want your character to do is an easy trap to fall into, and it hurts me when I'm planning games sometimes, but there's this great quote from the writer of Babylon5 that I think of often. Some fan asked how fast the ships go and he replied "they travel at the speed of plot" - if they need to be 3 days away, they're 3 days away, and assigning a number to them is pointless.
I like the point you're trying to make, but when I felt you building up to that quote I nearly gagged (honest!), it's been used so many times that I (who have no idea what Babylon 5 is, apart from it being a TV-show) know it and it's source.

Why would one assume you can't be recruited by the tyrants and *trained?* Where's the idea come from you can't join an organization till you know absolutely everything that organization does already? Nope you can't join the army unless you bring your own weapon and already know how to fight? Because the mafia won't let anyone join if they have openly expressed an interest in joining, likely tipping off the police, even if they are themselves not aware.

Why would having an amazing disguise or bluff stop you from getting a reputation? Even if it did who's to say the Tyrants with their resources couldn't still find out about you. Thank you divination magic! Good point.

Unless you're saying your changeling is incognito every second of his life? In which case yeah that could make it tricky for the tyrants to find you. So knock that off. I am merely being consistent in my cover stories (Used TWO disguises thus far, with the lowest disguise check being 36).

The tyrants aren't a super secret organization. That's the Cabinet of Faces. So it's not a difficult k. local check to figure out the Tyrants operate brothels in Firelight (assuming you're in Sharn). Go there and look to join. Yes they have standards but show them what you can do and I'm sure you'll get your foot in the door. They're just a criminal organization. They have to let capable people join from time to time or they won't exist for long.Huh, I thought they stayed low, so they wouldn't get noticed. Isn't that the whole point of hiding in plain sight? You know, hiding.
Shady314
06-04-07, 04:36 AM Because the mafia won't let anyone join if they have openly expressed an interest in joining, likely tipping off the police, even if they are themselves not aware.
What the? You ask for opinions then argue them? :) I kinda like you.
Anyways I've never heard this about the mafia. Of course I'm no mafia expert or anything. I'd have to question it's validity. For one thing how could any member of the mafia know you'd experessed an active interest? I'm not saying you should walk around Sharn yelling "I want to be a Tyrant! Any Tyrants 'round here?!" of course. The point was you have to approach a member in someway (and no I didn't mean walk up to one on the street. :))or get them to approach you.

I'm going to assume if you want to join the Tyrants then you're a criminal. Go do criminal things and don't get caught. Specifically do the things Tyrants do and when they come to you ****** off for stealing business say you'd much rather be working for them.

And the point stands on the training argument. What are they looking over your resume? or your character sheet? "I don't think you've got enough ranks in sleight of hand buddy. But we'll keep your resume for 6 months and see how things work out." Or maybe "Gee it looks here like you've never been a Tyrant before and we're really looking for someone that already knows the job." ;)
You don't have to be the best thing they have ever seen to get a job with them. But the fact is you probably are one of the best and that means it won't be hard.

I am merely being consistent in my cover stories (Used TWO disguises thus far, with the lowest disguise check being 36).
Ok so you're in disguise 24/7? It sounds like you aren't. If a Tyrant follows you or perhaps scrys you for a few days is he going to see you change shape at all? If the answer is yes then you need not worry about them not finding you.

If you are in disguise all the time then yeah it will be difficult for anyone to know you're not Joe Human or whatever. So when you're trying to join you should use your changeling abilities more. Or at least let it be known in the right circles you're a changeling.

Huh, I thought they stayed low, so they wouldn't get noticed. Isn't that the whole point of hiding in plain sight? You know, hiding.

Lay low? No they don't "lay low." They keep a low PROFILE. That's different. It means they aren't flashy criminals or involved in violent crimes. They run brothels and make forgeries etc. They're not thugs like other gangs in that respect.

They keep their heads down and don't make a ruckus that's very different from keeping their services an absolute secret.

They aren't hiding either. People have to come to them for services after all. Otherwise they can't make money. They're not a "secret" organization anymore than the Boromars or the real world mafia. In fact since you brought up the mafia that's a good way to think of it. Tyrants don't walk around saying yeah we're Tyrants we're badass anymore than mafiosos did or do. We're in sanitation you moron! But there will be people that at least suspect if not KNOW(in an I can prove it way) their true proffession.

Have you heard the term "open secret?" That's basically what the Tyrants are(with a few of their services being less widely known). A knowledge local check will turn you onto their brothels at least. I assume you would have some of that as a criminal. If not then a criminal contact perhaps?
okaynowa
06-04-07, 04:07 PM How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)?How the player joins:

Tell the DM, "I want my character to join the Tyrants."
When the DM asks why, say, "Because it's cool, it's a way to justify training for my character, and you can use them as a plot device later on."
Offer to complete a little (or big) side quest as an entry test.
Profit!

How the character joins:

Go to Sharn's "entertainment" district.
In the relative privacy of a known Tyrant establishment, "casually" demonstrate your shapechanging abilities with some clever impersonations of people in the room, local celebrities, famous officials, foreign personalities...
Retire to the bar and wait for a Tyrant talent scout to approach you. (Caution: you may be approached from behind with a dagger to test your reflexes. This is a professional consideration, and should not be taken personally.)
After passing (surviving) the initiation tests, swear to uphold the Tyrants' interests, pay your dues, vote the party line, etc.
The nice thing about the Tyrants is they have no obvious agenda, so a player's membership doesn't lock the DM into dealing with one particular story concept.
Need_A_Life
06-05-07, 10:04 AM What the? You ask for opinions then argue them? :) I kinda like you. Heh, sorry 'bout that. It's instinct.

Anyways I've never heard this about the mafia. Of course I'm no mafia expert or anything.Not an expert, but I know various people who've had (good or bad) experiences with the danish, the albanian and the russian mafia (not the same person, of course).

I'm not saying you should walk around Sharn yelling "I want to be a Tyrant! Any Tyrants 'round here?!" of course.Ah, okay. That was what surprised me in your earlier post.

I'm going to assume if you want to join the Tyrants then you're a criminal.Is carrying four different sets of identification papers suddenly a crime? How about the relocation of wealth? :D

Specifically do the things Tyrants do and when they come to you ****** off for stealing business say you'd much rather be working for them. Seems a decent idea, but I'm still at a loss of what is "Tyrant" enough to attract their attention.

And the point stands on the training argument. What are they looking over your resume? or your character sheet? "I don't think you've got enough ranks in sleight of hand buddy. But we'll keep your resume for 6 months and see how things work out."Heh, that gives me an idea. I have a contact in House Cannith; Elaydren Vown d'Cannith. In addition I am (legally) both a citizen of Breland and Karrnath, as Breland was never informed of my service at Fort Bones. :D

Ok so you're in disguise 24/7? It sounds like you aren't. If a Tyrant follows you or perhaps scrys you for a few days is he going to see you change shape at all? If the answer is yes then you need not worry about them not finding you.Well, that could've gone either way, actually. I guess I'll need to change shape more often until I get the job.

They aren't hiding either. People have to come to them for services after all. Otherwise they can't make money. They're not a "secret" organization anymore than the Boromars or the real world mafia. In fact since you brought up the mafia that's a good way to think of it. Tyrants don't walk around saying yeah we're Tyrants we're badass anymore than mafiosos did or do. We're in sanitation you moron! But there will be people that at least suspect if not KNOW(in an I can prove it way) their true proffession.Heh, true point.

How the player joins:
Tell the DM, "I want my character to join the Tyrants."
When the DM asks why, say, "Because it's cool, it's a way to justify training for my character, and you can use them as a plot device later on."
Offer to complete a little (or big) side quest as an entry test.
Profit!
How the character joins:
Go to Sharn's "entertainment" district.
In the relative privacy of a known Tyrant establishment, "casually" demonstrate your shapechanging abilities with some clever impersonations of people in the room, local celebrities, famous officials, foreign personalities...
Retire to the bar and wait for a Tyrant talent scout to approach you. (Caution: you may be approached from behind with a dagger to test your reflexes. This is a professional consideration, and should not be taken personally.)
After passing (surviving) the initiation tests, swear to uphold the Tyrants' interests, pay your dues, vote the party line, etc.
The nice thing about the Tyrants is they have no obvious agenda, so a player's membership doesn't lock the DM into dealing with one particular story concept.
If your location didn't say; "DC", I'd be tempted to say you're one of my friends from school. I asked him how he'd go about it (he's an Eberron fan too) and he came up with almost exactly the same plan.

Thanks everybody!
I'll post again how things go (I'm guessing we make it back to Sharn this session).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Need_A_Life 06-01-07, 07:01 PM	How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)? One can't very well go around asking for them and expect to be contacted, I assume? You'd be drawing too much attention to yourself and be unworthy of their time. If you're good enough to join them, then they shouldn't be able to find you. A good disguise and/or bluff would make sure that they'd never point you out in a crowd (my current character has - at level 3 - +22 to disguise and +12 to bluff). Generally, it seems they'd be impossible to locate. So, I am stuck. I want to join them the next time our group is in Sharn, but I don't know how to get to speak with one of them. Thank you in advance!
naturax 06-01-07, 11:18 PM	Stories don't come from game mechanics. Game mechanics exist to make stories go. If it serves the plot for a member of the Tyrants to notice your character (because they know what to look for, not because they have +X spot modifier) then they notice your character and everyone can move on in the story. Letting game mechanics hold you back from doing things you want your character to do is an easy trap to fall into, and it hurts me when I'm planning games sometimes, but there's this great quote from the writer of Babylon5 that I think of often. Some fan asked how fast the ships go and he replied "they travel at the speed of plot" - if they need to be 3 days away, they're 3 days away, and assigning a number to them is pointless.
Shady314 06-02-07, 01:26 AM	How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)? One can't very well go around asking for them and expect to be contacted, I assume? You'd be drawing too much attention to yourself and be unworthy of their time. If you're good enough to join them, then they shouldn't be able to find you. A good disguise and/or bluff would make sure that they'd never point you out in a crowd (my current character has - at level 3 - +22 to disguise and +12 to bluff). Generally, it seems they'd be impossible to locate. So, I am stuck. I want to join them the next time our group is in Sharn, but I don't know how to get to speak with one of them. Thank you in advance! Why would one assume you can't be recruited by the tyrants and trained? Where's the idea come from you can't join an organization till you know absolutely everything that organization does already? Nope you can't join the army unless you bring your own weapon and already know how to fight? ;) Why would having an amazing disguise or bluff stop you from getting a reputation? Even if it did who's to say the Tyrants with their resources couldn't still find out about you. Thank you divination magic! Unless you're saying your changeling is incognito every second of his life? In which case yeah that could make it tricky for the tyrants to find you. So knock that off. :) The tyrants aren't a super secret organization. That's the Cabinet of Faces. So it's not a difficult k. local check to figure out the Tyrants operate brothels in Firelight (assuming you're in Sharn). Go there and look to join. Yes they have standards but show them what you can do and I'm sure you'll get your foot in the door. They're just a criminal organization. They have to let capable people join from time to time or they won't exist for long.
Need_A_Life 06-02-07, 07:48 AM	Stories don't come from game mechanics. Game mechanics exist to make stories go. Having started out in Freeform Roleplaying (where mechanics are as close to non-existant as possible), I am well-aware that one should not let mechanics dictate the story. If it serves the plot for a member of the Tyrants to notice your character (because they know what to look for, not because they have +X spot modifier) then they notice your character and everyone can move on in the story. Thing is, it's not part of the overall plot, rather just something my character would like, if only because it'd allow him to ensure a better life for him and his sister. Next session is Tuesday, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get back to Sharn during that session, I just want some input. Letting game mechanics hold you back from doing things you want your character to do is an easy trap to fall into, and it hurts me when I'm planning games sometimes, but there's this great quote from the writer of Babylon5 that I think of often. Some fan asked how fast the ships go and he replied "they travel at the speed of plot" - if they need to be 3 days away, they're 3 days away, and assigning a number to them is pointless. I like the point you're trying to make, but when I felt you building up to that quote I nearly gagged (honest!), it's been used so many times that I (who have no idea what Babylon 5 is, apart from it being a TV-show) know it and it's source. Why would one assume you can't be recruited by the tyrants and trained? Where's the idea come from you can't join an organization till you know absolutely everything that organization does already? Nope you can't join the army unless you bring your own weapon and already know how to fight? Because the mafia won't let anyone join if they have openly expressed an interest in joining, likely tipping off the police, even if they are themselves not aware. Why would having an amazing disguise or bluff stop you from getting a reputation? Even if it did who's to say the Tyrants with their resources couldn't still find out about you. Thank you divination magic! Good point. Unless you're saying your changeling is incognito every second of his life? In which case yeah that could make it tricky for the tyrants to find you. So knock that off. I am merely being consistent in my cover stories (Used TWO disguises thus far, with the lowest disguise check being 36). The tyrants aren't a super secret organization. That's the Cabinet of Faces. So it's not a difficult k. local check to figure out the Tyrants operate brothels in Firelight (assuming you're in Sharn). Go there and look to join. Yes they have standards but show them what you can do and I'm sure you'll get your foot in the door. They're just a criminal organization. They have to let capable people join from time to time or they won't exist for long.Huh, I thought they stayed low, so they wouldn't get noticed. Isn't that the whole point of hiding in plain sight? You know, hiding.
Shady314 06-04-07, 04:36 AM	Because the mafia won't let anyone join if they have openly expressed an interest in joining, likely tipping off the police, even if they are themselves not aware. What the? You ask for opinions then argue them? :) I kinda like you. Anyways I've never heard this about the mafia. Of course I'm no mafia expert or anything. I'd have to question it's validity. For one thing how could any member of the mafia know you'd experessed an active interest? I'm not saying you should walk around Sharn yelling "I want to be a Tyrant! Any Tyrants 'round here?!" of course. The point was you have to approach a member in someway (and no I didn't mean walk up to one on the street. :))or get them to approach you. I'm going to assume if you want to join the Tyrants then you're a criminal. Go do criminal things and don't get caught. Specifically do the things Tyrants do and when they come to you ****** off for stealing business say you'd much rather be working for them. And the point stands on the training argument. What are they looking over your resume? or your character sheet? "I don't think you've got enough ranks in sleight of hand buddy. But we'll keep your resume for 6 months and see how things work out." Or maybe "Gee it looks here like you've never been a Tyrant before and we're really looking for someone that already knows the job." ;) You don't have to be the best thing they have ever seen to get a job with them. But the fact is you probably are one of the best and that means it won't be hard. I am merely being consistent in my cover stories (Used TWO disguises thus far, with the lowest disguise check being 36). Ok so you're in disguise 24/7? It sounds like you aren't. If a Tyrant follows you or perhaps scrys you for a few days is he going to see you change shape at all? If the answer is yes then you need not worry about them not finding you. If you are in disguise all the time then yeah it will be difficult for anyone to know you're not Joe Human or whatever. So when you're trying to join you should use your changeling abilities more. Or at least let it be known in the right circles you're a changeling. Huh, I thought they stayed low, so they wouldn't get noticed. Isn't that the whole point of hiding in plain sight? You know, hiding. Lay low? No they don't "lay low." They keep a low PROFILE. That's different. It means they aren't flashy criminals or involved in violent crimes. They run brothels and make forgeries etc. They're not thugs like other gangs in that respect. They keep their heads down and don't make a ruckus that's very different from keeping their services an absolute secret. They aren't hiding either. People have to come to them for services after all. Otherwise they can't make money. They're not a "secret" organization anymore than the Boromars or the real world mafia. In fact since you brought up the mafia that's a good way to think of it. Tyrants don't walk around saying yeah we're Tyrants we're badass anymore than mafiosos did or do. We're in sanitation you moron! But there will be people that at least suspect if not KNOW(in an I can prove it way) their true proffession. Have you heard the term "open secret?" That's basically what the Tyrants are(with a few of their services being less widely known). A knowledge local check will turn you onto their brothels at least. I assume you would have some of that as a criminal. If not then a criminal contact perhaps?
okaynowa 06-04-07, 04:07 PM	How would one go about joining the infamous Tyrants (Sharn: City of Towers)?How the player joins: Tell the DM, "I want my character to join the Tyrants." When the DM asks why, say, "Because it's cool, it's a way to justify training for my character, and you can use them as a plot device later on." Offer to complete a little (or big) side quest as an entry test. Profit! How the character joins: Go to Sharn's "entertainment" district. In the relative privacy of a known Tyrant establishment, "casually" demonstrate your shapechanging abilities with some clever impersonations of people in the room, local celebrities, famous officials, foreign personalities... Retire to the bar and wait for a Tyrant talent scout to approach you. (Caution: you may be approached from behind with a dagger to test your reflexes. This is a professional consideration, and should not be taken personally.) After passing (surviving) the initiation tests, swear to uphold the Tyrants' interests, pay your dues, vote the party line, etc. The nice thing about the Tyrants is they have no obvious agenda, so a player's membership doesn't lock the DM into dealing with one particular story concept.
Need_A_Life 06-05-07, 10:04 AM	What the? You ask for opinions then argue them? :) I kinda like you. Heh, sorry 'bout that. It's instinct. Anyways I've never heard this about the mafia. Of course I'm no mafia expert or anything.Not an expert, but I know various people who've had (good or bad) experiences with the danish, the albanian and the russian mafia (not the same person, of course). I'm not saying you should walk around Sharn yelling "I want to be a Tyrant! Any Tyrants 'round here?!" of course.Ah, okay. That was what surprised me in your earlier post. I'm going to assume if you want to join the Tyrants then you're a criminal.Is carrying four different sets of identification papers suddenly a crime? How about the relocation of wealth? :D Specifically do the things Tyrants do and when they come to you ****** off for stealing business say you'd much rather be working for them. Seems a decent idea, but I'm still at a loss of what is "Tyrant" enough to attract their attention. And the point stands on the training argument. What are they looking over your resume? or your character sheet? "I don't think you've got enough ranks in sleight of hand buddy. But we'll keep your resume for 6 months and see how things work out."Heh, that gives me an idea. I have a contact in House Cannith; Elaydren Vown d'Cannith. In addition I am (legally) both a citizen of Breland and Karrnath, as Breland was never informed of my service at Fort Bones. :D Ok so you're in disguise 24/7? It sounds like you aren't. If a Tyrant follows you or perhaps scrys you for a few days is he going to see you change shape at all? If the answer is yes then you need not worry about them not finding you.Well, that could've gone either way, actually. I guess I'll need to change shape more often until I get the job. They aren't hiding either. People have to come to them for services after all. Otherwise they can't make money. They're not a "secret" organization anymore than the Boromars or the real world mafia. In fact since you brought up the mafia that's a good way to think of it. Tyrants don't walk around saying yeah we're Tyrants we're badass anymore than mafiosos did or do. We're in sanitation you moron! But there will be people that at least suspect if not KNOW(in an I can prove it way) their true proffession.Heh, true point. How the player joins: Tell the DM, "I want my character to join the Tyrants." When the DM asks why, say, "Because it's cool, it's a way to justify training for my character, and you can use them as a plot device later on." Offer to complete a little (or big) side quest as an entry test. Profit! How the character joins: Go to Sharn's "entertainment" district. In the relative privacy of a known Tyrant establishment, "casually" demonstrate your shapechanging abilities with some clever impersonations of people in the room, local celebrities, famous officials, foreign personalities... Retire to the bar and wait for a Tyrant talent scout to approach you. (Caution: you may be approached from behind with a dagger to test your reflexes. This is a professional consideration, and should not be taken personally.) After passing (surviving) the initiation tests, swear to uphold the Tyrants' interests, pay your dues, vote the party line, etc. The nice thing about the Tyrants is they have no obvious agenda, so a player's membership doesn't lock the DM into dealing with one particular story concept. If your location didn't say; "DC", I'd be tempted to say you're one of my friends from school. I asked him how he'd go about it (he's an Eberron fan too) and he came up with almost exactly the same plan. Thanks everybody! I'll post again how things go (I'm guessing we make it back to Sharn this session).