Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mrlost 07-14-07, 03:50 PM	Okay, I'm approaching the end of my campaign. The PCs are the heads of a military division that is tasked with handling Planar threats to the Kingdom of Karrnath, especially those involving aberrations, cults, and outsiders. They are loosely modeled on the BPRD. Anyway, over the course of the game they've uncovered a plot by members of the nobility and military establishment to unseat the King, and replace him with a council of nobles led by Renn ir'Tanar, and key members of the Order of Rekkenmark. Also the rebels would like to eliminate Karrnath's war dead and necroarsenals which they feel constitute a direct threat to their power. The PCs confronted one of the ring leaders of the plot, the head of the Kings secret police, and were very nearly killed, but they were able to warn Kaius, and will now be rewarded (ugh vampire template). However, the conspirators have also been tipped off and the rebellion has begun as well. One of the many things I've been wondering is how the people of the Five nations would take the news that the King of Karrnath is a vampire? Would Order of the Silver Flame militant invade and try to slay him? How would the populance react? Obviously the seekers of the Blood wouldn't panic but what about the rest of the citizenry. Would I be right in suggesting that they would still be proud of a strong King but fearful of a vampire? The PCs (one whom, their fearless undead hating leader, has been made into a vampire spawn by the King) are being put in a position to root out traitors to the crown, and crush the rebellion. Also what are some good ways for the rebels to reveal to the common people that Kaius is a vampire.
Alex_ 07-14-07, 04:40 PM	One of the many things I've been wondering is how the people of the Five nations would take the news that the King of Karrnath is a vampire? I suppose it depends on who in particular found out and how. In general, I doubt anone would take it very well at all. My personal ideas of what responses would be are based entirely upon the idea that they know he's a vampire and nothing more. They don't know about Vol, they don't know about him being so old, and still believe him to be great grandson of the older King of Karrnath. Would Order of the Silver Flame militant invade and try to slay him? Assumming the Church leadership found out somehow, I don't think their immediate response would be to specifically slay him. The leadership of the church would most likely take actions to secure themselves, cutting off what limited trade and negotiations were going on with Karrnath, and probably abducting any Karrnathi officials/diplomats currently within their own borders. They wouldn't go directly to war, but they would sure as heck start searching for any reason to justify it. They certainly wouldn't listen to anything Karrnath has to say. If further investigations resulted in them stumbling upon the growing numbers of undead that Karrnath is building up, then war would likely be inevitable. Thrane has pretty much always hated Karrnath and has thought the King and current administration to be bad people. If anything, Kaius being a Vampire would explain a few things. It'd be more like further validation of and justification for what they already believed. Also, don't forget the other nations. King Boranel of Breland's children are living in Karrnath (married to Karrnathi royalty IRRC). King Boranel is really going to have his hands full trying to explain how he's been the most active pursuer of peace and alliance with a Vampire. Of course being a much more liberal and cosmopolitan society who tend to see more sides of an issue (and argue about it), Breland in general is likely to take the news a number of ways. There should be more people who will separate love or hatred of Kaius from their nation's politics with the rest of Karrnath. I would expect Breland's response to be much less absolute. I expect Aundair's response to be like Thrane's only a bit more restrained given the lesser influence of the Silver Flame there, and the fact that they would probably see Thrane as handling most of the military actions. The Mror Holds are allied with Karrnath, and would probably remain so, although they would probably show no greater affection for Kaius, and would prefer to see him replaced. Likewise for the Talenta Plains. Lathon Haplum might have some explaining to do and Holy Uldra could use it as evidence that the Halflings can't trust outsiders. How would the populance react? ...Would I be right in suggesting that they would still be proud of a strong King but fearful of a vampire? Unless it's made known to them by some kind of great announcement or reported o by a respectable source like the Korranberg Chronicle, I think they would be unlikely to know. If they did find out, amongst the people of Karrnath, this would probably be a great blemish on their national pride, and they probably wouldn't mind seeing someone else take charge. They tolerate some undead, but the King being a Vampire (very different from a Zombie or Skeleton)- and furthermore, hiding the fact from the nation for years- is just going too far. I doubt they would be afraid enough of a single Vampire to fall into panic or allow themselves to be continuously ruled by him. He's already being challenged by military leaders of Karrnath, who already hold just as much, if not a bit more respect from the people than the King. Obviously the seekers of the Blood wouldn't panic but what about the rest of the citizenry. They would certainly be very confused though. This is the one who renounced the Blood of Vol as the national faith, and has made efforts to reduce the use of Undead in the military (publically at least) while he himself is a Vampire. He'd be quickly branded a hypocrite. They wouldn't panic, but he'd get no sympathy or support from them. But wait, what if Kaius, with his cover blown, decides to take Vol down with him? He would probably have little left to lose, and at the very least, getting Vol's secret plot revealed might pull some of the heat off of himself and make his situation and actions more sympathetic. Of course merely bad mouthing her won't help. He'd need to actually get a hold of her or some of her more trusted allies to fully out her. This could have disastrous results for the Blood of Vol. Also what are some good ways for the rebels to reveal to the common people that Kaius is a vampire. Probably to reveal him at some kind of public or international meeting. While he's making a formal address, entertaining foriegn diplomats, or meeting with any group with whom he would have something to lose, launch some kind of attac or stage some occurance that causes his multiple layers of disguises to fail. This will require a serious effort with lots of planning and preferably betrayal by someone very close to him. They key is to make sure that as many people as possible see it, and the more important and unsympathetic they are to him, the better. Hope that helped some.
Furion Thamior 07-14-07, 08:10 PM	Even if it were revealed... would the population believe it? Personally, this is a truth that I think most people would find hard to believe. Especially if it were revealed by outward political enemies of the King. There aren't too many ways to prove he's a vampire without destroying him in the process.
Esgay 07-14-07, 08:24 PM	It would need some serious kind of proof, any kind of attempt to dispel his protections and wards could be turned around as illusions and enchantments to make him seem like a vampire. Also, there is no way of getting this information to the masses, It would spread by word of mouth at worst, (I doubt Kaius would let it leak to the presses) and even so, all he has to do is make a "public" appearance at midday to the masses and pretty much all those rumours will be quashed. as Furion Thanior stated, pretty much the only way to definitively prove he's a vampire is to destroy him. and there are very few NPCs capable of that.
Mathus 07-16-07, 03:41 PM	I was just reading the Five Nations and they talk about Kaius and the worry he has that if he tries harder at pushing the Blood of Vol out of Karrnath that not only does he risk revealing himself but that the ensuing chaos could throw Karrnath into a civil war. And I would say since that is his fear it is a most probable out come. In your scenario I see five factions. Nobles who support King Kaius (who cares if he is a vampire he is a good king.) Nobles who support replacing him (having a vampire as king means that your foreign relations are doomed. You must replace him for the good of the country.) Your rebel forces (These guys are fighting with both factions of nobles because they do not want things to return to the status they were before. They want a council not a new king.) Blood of Vol in support of Kaius (They feel if they are ever to champion their religion what better way then having a chosen one in charge. And how can he possibly deny the rightful religion of Vol now that he is revealed as an undead. In fact Vol herself would most likely join this faction just so she can try and tie those strings around Kaius again that he broke years ago.) Blood of Vol that now see an opportunity to retaliate at the king who has publicly denounced their religion. At last they can restore the glory of their church by removing the most powerful person speaking out against them. And finally the other countries would cut off all ties with Karnnath while secretly suppling supplies with one faction or the other. Some countries like Thrane and Aundair would probably support multiple factions to keep a civil war going as long a possible to destroy Karrnath from within. And how do you convince the public Kaius is a vampire? You don't, you convince the nobles. If the nobles know he is a vampire, the populousness will know as well. And finally for the population that is not Blood of Vol, or nobles, (like Host followers) they will most likely join with one of the Noble factions or join which ever faction is fighting against a disliked neighboring town and would be more concerned about their local (within 50 miles) politics then the huge politics fueling the war in the major cities. P.S. King Kaius would be to busy trying to stabilize his country to worry about attacking the Blood of Vol. In fact I see him possibly making that deal with the devil (Vol) again to restore order. Possibly like doing what he did the first time, faking his death and being reborn. Although this time I would say he would try and get into a situation where he works the power from behind the throne. Most likely by finding one of his living relatives and placing himself in to a "chamberlain" or trusted adviser position.
mrlost 07-17-07, 02:36 PM	Hey, I just wanted to say that the session ran without a hitch. It went great though the PCs had a tough time deciding who to support. Our Warforged wizard ended up throwing his bowler hat in with an entirely new faction, while his supposed commander supported the King and was made a vampire. I ended up having Regent Moranna slain by rebel forces quite publicly by morning sunlight, and this was reported to the PCs by the Sharn Inquistor's special report. The PCs broke the Siege of Rekkenmark, and are now figuring out what to do about Baron ir'Omik's Project Necrogenesis which they feel has gone too far. All in all a pretty intriguing session, and a far cry from the D&D of my youth. I even ran a taven scene where minor characters (played by the players) discussed the political situation before being swept up into the Civil War.
Sarlax 07-17-07, 04:29 PM	I believe there would rapidly be attempts to depose Kaius from both domestic and foreign groups. First, as indicated in Sharn, the Galifar Code of Justice does not proect undead. While individual nations can rule otherwise now, the principles of the Code likely still extend to behaviors in international relations. As a vampire, Kaius has had no legal rights since the moment he was turned. Presently, this would mean any wishing to destroy him would have no legal barrier to doing so. Likewise, his undead status calls into question the legality of his every action. There might be cause to overturn every decision he has made for a century. Public confidence would be eliminated, regardless of his efficacy as a ruler. Roosevelt took pains to conceal the fact that he couldn't walk so that he wouldn't seem weak and thereby lose the support of the public. Imagine if FDR was revealed to actually be Andrew Jackson, living for a century past his time by feeding on a harem of cultists, and that he'd been masquerading under different presidential identities for decades. Would you vote for him again? I don't see any other nations invading the country to depose Kaius. The domestic reaction to his true nature should be sufficient to make him flee. Karrnath will probably go into a civil war after Kaius is out of power. Other nations will only intervene to expand their territory as the land's numerous warlords starts reducing their own numbers. The Blood of Vol, potentially his greatest ally, has been alienated by him having removed its position as the state religion. If anyone in the country would have supported an undead king, it would have been the people of the Blood. Without the power they'd need to stand against the warlods, they'll probably condemn Kaius with the rest just so they don't get exterminated in the civil war. All that said, it would be very difficult to reveal that Kaius is a vampire. The key options would be to attack until he mists him, burn him with sunlight, or turn him. Any such action would need to be done in public. Collapsing him into mist means getting passed his many guards - and even if you pull it off, it can always be explained as a spell effect to cover his escape. If you turn him - well, he runs away. It's probably the easiest, since you just need to be a high-level cleric in his presence, and such a character can probably work her way into diplomatic functions. But if you manage to get him to flee, this can also be explained as a spell effect, like a potent Cause Fear. It would be embarrassing but not damning. Finally, I'm sure Kaius doesn't get much sun anyway. Whenever he's seen in public it's through magic or skilled changeling doubles. This is actually probably normal for statesmen. The threat of assassination would have every king and queen using doubles on a regular basis, particular when you can get doubles which are so effective. While these methods might reveal Kaius as a vampire to the other heads of states and their aides, communicating this to the public of Karrnath is nearly impossible. So what if the papers publish this story? It won't believed. Other nations might know the truth, but how do they act on it? No one will like that the neighbors have a vampire for a king, but the only nation that might bother to commit significant national resources to the issue is Thrane. For Breland, Aundair, etc., how does Kaius the Vampire differ? It doesn't change anything he has done. I'm sure he'll raise a lot of suspicion among advisors, but kings already treat each other with maximum suspicion.
Furion Thamior 07-18-07, 11:03 PM	First, as indicated in Sharn, the Galifar Code of Justice does not proect undead. This may be, but Karrnath doesn't follow the Code of Galifar. The law there is the Code of Kaius.
Sarlax 07-19-07, 01:28 AM	This may be, but Karrnath doesn't follow the Code of Galifar. The law there is the Code of Kaius. Context please: "First, as indicated in Sharn, the Galifar Code of Justice does not proect undead. While individual nations can rule otherwise now, the principles of the Code likely still extend to behaviors in international relations." When nations interact Kaius will have no credibility. Why would Aundair consider the actions of Kaius as legitimate when the laws in most of the Five Nations do not even permit him to exist? He is not a legal entity and this makes negotiating with him on the international scene next to impossible.
Charles Phipps 07-19-07, 01:32 AM	This may be, but Karrnath doesn't follow the Code of Galifar. The law there is the Code of Kaius. Which probably doesn't protect undead either. Ironically, the Code of Kaius is also invalidated because it was made by a vampire. That's all legalize though. What it boils down to is that even if it can be proven, it'll just be a pretext for people that want to conquer Karrnath.
Sarlax 07-19-07, 10:14 AM	Which probably doesn't protect undead either. Ironically, the Code of Kaius is also invalidated because it was made by a vampire. Yep. The actions of Kaius makes have little more legal weight than those of Bernie, whose weekend antics we love so much.
Furion Thamior 07-19-07, 05:33 PM	The Code of Kaius most definitely protects undead, it's the law in a nation that used undead to fight its wars. the King and his regent are vampires, and the Blood of Vol was openly the state religion for decades. At the very least it probably allows undead to be the "property" of the state, and likely gives intelligent undead some berth too - they are, after all, the martyrs and champions of the church.
Alex_ 07-19-07, 06:42 PM	The Blood of Vol is not the dominant religion in Karrnath. In the decades since Kaius came to rule, it has become a minority faith. Most people in Karrnath practice the faith of the Sovereign Host. The majority of people in Karrnath (the followers of the Host) do not necessarily like Undead. They respect the sacrifice made by Karrnathi soldiers to serve their nation even in death, but they have no particular love for Undead. A Vampire or Lich in a Karrnathi town is probably going to get the same general treatment as one in Breland. The Blood of Vol likes intelligent Undead sure, but remember, they are in the minority, not the majority, and they do not like Kaius.
Sarlax 07-20-07, 01:23 AM	The Code of Kaius most definitely protects undead, it's the law in a nation that used undead to fight its wars. the King and his regent are vampires, and the Blood of Vol was openly the state religion for decades. Well, as Charles Phipps noted, the Code of Kaius has no legal weight, as it was established by a vampire, who would have no right under the then extand legal system, the Code of Galifar. If Kaius is outed, everything he's done since changing can be overturned, including the CoK. Think of a modern president. If he was killed and replaced by a terrorist lookalike for 5 years, with the terrorist then exposed, would the actions of the impostor be considered legal?
Charles Phipps 07-20-07, 01:37 AM	Well, as Charles Phipps noted, the Code of Kaius has no legal weight, as it was established by a vampire, who would have no right under the then extand legal system, the Code of Galifar. If Kaius is outed, everything he's done since changing can be overturned, including the CoK. Think of a modern president. If he was killed and replaced by a terrorist lookalike for 5 years, with the terrorist then exposed, would the actions of the impostor be considered legal? Yes, there's also the fact that the Blood of Vol is persecuted in Karrnath. It's just a very popular religion and its ATTITUDES towards the undead influence the people even when it's no longer adopted (like Christianity in the Soviet Union). Basically, under the Code of Kaius, Undead are SLAVES. We've seen no vampires in positions of power that aren't hiding their natures. All the intelligent undead are treated as disposable cannon fodder for the living troopers to command. Like Clones in the Star Wars prequels.
Furion Thamior 07-20-07, 01:51 AM	Well, as Charles Phipps noted, the Code of Kaius has no legal weight, as it was established by a vampire, who would have no right under the then extand legal system, the Code of Galifar. If Kaius is outed, everything he's done since changing can be overturned, including the CoK. Think of a modern president. If he was killed and replaced by a terrorist lookalike for 5 years, with the terrorist then exposed, would the actions of the impostor be considered legal? However, we're not talking about an electoral government here, where the people get to vote. We are talking about a line of kings, who have rule of their nation, predominately through force of arms, who wield supreme executive power to change the law on their whims. Kaius I essential *took* control of Karrnath at the outset of the war, and the people followed him. The Kingdom of Galifar no longer exists, there is not an over-arching legal system that holds sway over the nations that were part of it (if there were, who would enforce it). Some nations still use the Code of Galifar as the basis for their legal system. Some have made changes. Not all have the same legal or government system - Droam is ruled by monsters! Breland has a parliament and prime minister! This concept of "legal weight" assumes that there is some sort of supreme legal code still in play, which there is clearly not. In Karrnath, the law is the Code of Kaius, and undead or not, Kaius III is king. The *real* problem is that Kaius III is not actually Kaius III . We do *not* know which Kaius established the Code, either, or when. The only way Kaius could be legally unseated would be if another nation were to force him to surrender, and impose their laws on Karrnath. Which probably wouldn't happen since Kaius would be likely destroyed (Or find a way out) before he surrendered like that. And no, the BoV is *not* a minority in Karrnath, the freaking high temple is openly in Atur, and it's led by a mummy!
Charles Phipps 07-20-07, 01:59 AM	And no, the BoV is *not* a minority in Karrnath, the freaking high temple is openly in Atur, and it's led by a mummy! The Five Nations established this. So it's canon unless you can provide a different source. Keith Baker said that doesn't really fit his idea of the country but it's the case now and he can't change it. As for King Kaius, the King is dead. It's like someone ressurecting Jarlot the First. He's not King and the people won't accept him because they honestly believe he's only a pale copy. Bluntly, The most legitimate reaction of everyone would be to want the REAL Kaius the third or next relative in line installed as King. Simple eh?
Furion Thamior 07-20-07, 02:17 AM	The Five Nations established this. So it's canon unless you can provide a different source. Keith Baker said that doesn't really fit his idea of the country but it's the case now and he can't change it. As for King Kaius, the King is dead. It's like someone ressurecting Jarlot the First. He's not King and the people won't accept him because they honestly believe he's only a pale copy. Bluntly, The most legitimate reaction of everyone would be to want the REAL Kaius the third or next relative in line installed as King. Simple eh? My bad on the BoV. Chalk that up to personal perception. I agree that Kaius is easily deposed, legally speaking, if he's proven to be an impostor. But actually getting rid of his influence might not be so simple.
Charles Phipps 07-20-07, 02:28 AM	My bad on the BoV. Chalk that up to personal perception. I agree that Kaius is easily deposed, legally speaking, if he's proven to be an impostor. But actually getting rid of his influence might not be so simple. Oddly, I think he's a bit like Saddam Hussein. Kaius has his personal self surrounded by a large number of loyalists who know his true nature. Plus, he potentially has control over the entire undead horde of Karrnath. So depending on whether the latter obey him above all others, deposing him may be a small or large matter.
Alex_ 07-20-07, 02:37 AM	The BoV is so easily attributed to Karrnath because of all the places in Khorvaire, Karrnath is where the largest population lives. But it's still a minority. Like how people think of gay liberal celebrities when they think of California, or of uneducated rednecks in trailer parks when they think of the south. Neither of those descriptions reflect the majority of people living in those places, and you can really find them anywhere.
Cifer 07-20-07, 02:22 PM	I'd say the reactions would depend on what the BoV is in your campaign. If they are a major religion in your Karrnath/5N, Kaius could try a complete turn-around, exposing Vol, explaining his prior treatment of the blood and supplanting her as the champion of the faith. He wouldn't have too many priests behind him, but the populace might choose him over being the puppets of a lich.
mrlost 07-20-07, 10:35 PM	My actual play thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=344811) over at RPG.net Sessions 3 (Secret of the Sunken Shrine) and Session 4 (First Watch vs. Project Necrogenesis) deal with the Karrnathi Civil War, if anyone cares to see how I handled it thanks to all your input.
Sarlax 07-21-07, 12:05 AM	Another approach would be for Kaius, if exposed, to submit himself to destruction and resurrection thereafter. If he finds he's in danger of being "outed," it may be the only way to hold onto power.
Sarlax 07-21-07, 12:17 AM	I'd say the reactions would depend on what the BoV is in your campaign. If they are a major religion in your Karrnath/5N, Kaius could try a complete turn-around, exposing Vol, explaining his prior treatment of the blood and supplanting her as the champion of the faith. He wouldn't have too many priests behind him, but the populace might choose him over being the puppets of a lich. I don't think this is too viable. What explanation can he use to justify his dismissal of the Blood as the state religion? At best, he might claim that he found the state branch had been tainted by spies. In an effort to purge them, he dismissed their secular authority. Now that the church is clean, however, he intends to restore the faith to its place as the state religion. He absolutely cannot denounce Vol. If he reveals her, he has to come down hard as a supporter, at least publically. The revelation of Vol's existence, the founder of the Khorvaire traditions of the Blood, would be amazing news for the Blood. They'd have evidence of the power of the faith in preserving one's identity for centuries beyond death. Kaius can't possibly maintain credibility with the religion while denouncing it's founder. What Kaius would need to do (if revealed as a vampire or in real danger of being revealed) is verify his true nature and restore the Blood as the state religion with greatly expanded powers. This might be enough to mobilize the Seekers in other countries to support him (secretly) from abroad, potentially endowing him with many zealous and energized followers. If Vol is revealed, Kaius must declare his support for her, else the Seekers will reject him. He can struggle with her in the background, but he can't hope to have the support of the Blood if he rejects her.
Alex_ 07-21-07, 12:31 AM	I don't think this is too viable. What explanation can he use to justify his dismissal of the Blood as the state religion? At best, he might claim that he found the state branch had been tainted by spies. In an effort to purge them, he dismissed their secular authority. Now that the church is clean, however, he intends to restore the faith to its place as the state religion. He absolutely cannot denounce Vol. If he reveals her, he has to come down hard as a supporter, at least publically. The revelation of Vol's existence, the founder of the Khorvaire traditions of the Blood, would be amazing news for the Blood. They'd have evidence of the power of the faith in preserving one's identity for centuries beyond death. Kaius can't possibly maintain credibility with the religion while denouncing it's founder. What Kaius would need to do (if revealed as a vampire or in real danger of being revealed) is verify his true nature and restore the Blood as the state religion with greatly expanded powers. This might be enough to mobilize the Seekers in other countries to support him (secretly) from abroad, potentially endowing him with many zealous and energized followers. If Vol is revealed, Kaius must declare his support for her, else the Seekers will reject him. He can struggle with her in the background, but he can't hope to have the support of the Blood if he rejects her. Most seers don't know about Vol the person. They see some Undead as martyr-like spiritual leaders, sort of like bodhisattvas, but if they learned that all of this was part of some big plot started by a Lich to enable her rise to power, and that the Emerald Claw (which is widely believed to be a terrorist group) is under her direct control, the number of those who would actually side with her would be relatively low. Vol's ambitions and the ideals of the faith have very little in common. Of course Kaius did turn on Vol and suggest she's been using everyone, he would have to provide persuasive evidence in support of his accusations. There are people who have devoted their entire life to this faith and many who honestly believe they will be able to attain immortality. Such beliefs are going to be relatively harder to simply cast aside in the light of proposed scandal.
Charles Phipps 07-21-07, 12:57 AM	Yeah, I explained it to my players like this. "The Blood of Vol is like Christianity. It's named after the family that founded it." "If someone found Jesus' great great great etc grand nephew. Would you worship him?"
Sarlax 07-21-07, 02:31 PM	Most seers don't know about Vol the person. They see some Undead as martyr-like spiritual leaders, sort of like bodhisattvas, but if they learned that all of this was part of some big plot started by a Lich to enable her rise to power, and that the Emerald Claw (which is widely believed to be a terrorist group) is under her direct control, the number of those who would actually side with her would be relatively low. Kaius can't control how this information will come out. He isn't hooked into the Blood across the continent, but Vol is. While the rank and file don't know about her, the more powerful or influential a particular priest, the more likely it is they do know of Vol. Vol has a much greater ability to shape the beliefs of the religion than does Kaius. Even if Kaius can somehow manage greater control of information within the Blood of Vol than Vol herself, he won't gain anything from discrediting her. Revelations about the founder of the religion having continually used it for evil purposes (but see below) since its inception, if believed, will simply discredit it and break the faith of the Seekers. Note that, however, Vol didn't create the religion to rise to power. She practiced an earlier version of it herself on Aerenal. Her greatest goal is to restore the Mark of Death, but we don't know if this is contrary to the goals of the religion. Since the Mark was used to make her into a lich (in some way), we can even believe that the mark would facilitate the ability of the Blood to preserve people beyond death.
Alex_ 07-21-07, 06:17 PM	Kaius can't control how this information will come out. He isn't hooked into the Blood across the continent, but Vol is. He can "control" it by having the word spread by those close to him, by anyone who would be interested in learning such a thing about the Blood of Vol. He may not have the highest level clergymen intentionally spreading information for him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have anyone. While the rank and file don't know about her, the more powerful or influential a particular priest, the more likely it is they do know of Vol. Vol has a much greater ability to shape the beliefs of the religion than does Kaius. But if the rank and file don't know about Vol, when the first thing they hear about her is that she's a manipulative Lich who tried to control Kaius as a Vampire and is trying to manipulate them all, they probably aren't going to follow her. I mean some hardcore fanatical people tend to remain faithful when its revealed their beliefs turn out to be part of the plan of a previously unknown (and still living) cult leader, but the majority of individuals don't. Revelations about the founder of the religion having continually used it for evil purposes (but see below) since its inception, if believed, will simply discredit it and break the faith of the Seekers. And that's what Kaius wants. He wants to see Vol removed from power. He doesn't like her. She tried to control him. The only reason he hasn't gone to greater lengths to challenger her is because he knows that if she's uncovered, she's also going to blow his cover about being a Vampire. But if Kaius is already busted for being a Vampire, Vol has no leverage over him anymore. Note that, however, Vol didn't create the religion to rise to power. She practiced an earlier version of it herself on Aerenal. Her greatest goal is to restore the Mark of Death, but we don't know if this is contrary to the goals of the religion. Since the Mark was used to make her into a lich (in some way), we can even believe that the mark would facilitate the ability of the Blood to preserve people beyond death. The Blood of Vol and Emerald Claw are her ways of getting information, resources, personnel, etc. Also, even if she does restore the Mark of Death, she's still going to need support. She also seeks revenge against the Elves of Aerenal and Dragons of Argonessen, something else that requires an organization for support. She doesn't really believe in saving all mortals. She herself isn't trying to find the divinity in blood. She's trying to get her Dragonmark back and get revenge. The Blood of Vol is a front, only the majority of people don't know that.
Need_A_Life 07-22-07, 06:57 AM	If the first thing they hear is that Vol's a manipulative b... I mean, lich, what would they say? "lay off the mead, pal" seriously, their king being a vampire is a stretch (especially considering that he's been observed in open sunlight for years), but that the BoV is in fact some big conspiracy out to get Kaius? Puuh-lease, that's ridiculous :P
Sarlax 07-22-07, 04:17 PM	Revelations about the founder of the religion having continually used it for evil purposes (but see below) since its inception, if believed, will simply discredit it and break the faith of the Seekers. And that's what Kaius wants. He wants to see Vol removed from power. He doesn't like her. She tried to control him. The only reason he hasn't gone to greater lengths to challenger her is because he knows that if she's uncovered, she's also going to blow his cover about being a Vampire. And good does this do for Kaius? The point is that the Blood of Vol is the only organization on Khorvaire which might continue to support him if his vampirism is revealed. If, however, he takes an antagonistic public position towards Vol and successfully discredits her, all he will does is dismantle the church, leaving himself entirely without allies.
Alex_ 07-22-07, 07:00 PM	And good does this do for Kaius? The point is that the Blood of Vol is the only organization on Khorvaire which might continue to support him if his vampirism is revealed. If, however, he takes an antagonistic public position towards Vol and successfully discredits her, all he will does is dismantle the church, leaving himself entirely without allies. It can help in that he hates Vol and doesn't want to see her to be succesful. That's why he denounces the Blood of Vol and vilifies the Emerald Claw. He has a personal vendetta against her. If he didn't think Vol would rat him out, he'd probably be even more aggressive in his attempts to take her out and would have made many attempts to expose her and her cult for the frauds they are. If he is discovered to be a Vampire, what reason does he has left to fear Vol? He is not going to win the support of the BoV, as they are (unknowingly) helping Vol, which is the opposite of what he's spent years trying to do. Even if he did appeal to them, they're in the minority and aren't going to be enough to save him. His only real options here are damage control or finding company for his misery. Painting Vol as the greater evil, "She made me a Vampire! Also, she's been plying us all for dupes!" is part of damage control, and telling the world that there's an Evil Lich up in the Lazhaar Principalities plotting against the Dragonmarked Houses, Arenal, Argonessen, and the people of Khorvaire is going to increase the chances of Vol going down with him, even if it comes later.
Need_A_Life 07-23-07, 03:35 PM	Korranberg Chronicle wouldn't touch his story... He'd end up in the Sharn Inquisitive for telling a story with that with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF. He's a vampire (without legal rights, just to repeat a point) who's trying to blame his invisible friend for his condition. I think the article would be right next to: The Mourning: Cannith Exposed! In short, no one would take it seriously, and since slander is NOT a crime under the code of galifar, it'd not even be a crime (not that it'd matter, because Kaius gonna be toast any way you look at it).
Alex_ 07-23-07, 04:55 PM	Korranberg Chronicle wouldn't touch his story... He'd end up in the Sharn Inquisitive for telling a story with that with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF. He's a vampire (without legal rights, just to repeat a point) who's trying to blame his invisible friend for his condition. I think the article would be right next to: The Mourning: Cannith Exposed! In short, no one would take it seriously, and since slander is NOT a crime under the code of galifar, it'd not even be a crime (not that it'd matter, because Kaius gonna be toast any way you look at it). Which is why I said he'd have to provide some darn good evidence. Unveiling Vol's secrets would be, in many (not all, but many) ways similar to exposing Kaius's. What I was originally going at was that this could be a campaign hook for PCs who are sympathetic to Kaius (in spite of his being a Vampire) and want to help him. Taking down and/or exposing Vol would probably be one of the best things they could do for him.
Need_A_Life 07-24-07, 10:48 AM	Let's see... In the Red Corner: Millenia old (?) epic (demi?)lich, focused on staying hidden while she uses a not insignificant part of the world as her puppets. Aaaand... In the Blue Corner: Some mortals, wanting to help their vampire buddy. --- Anyone up for taking bets?
Alex_ 07-24-07, 11:58 AM	Let's see... In the Red Corner: Millenia old (?) epic (demi?)lich, focused on staying hidden while she uses a not insignificant part of the world as her puppets. Aaaand... In the Blue Corner: Some mortals, wanting to help their vampire buddy. --- Anyone up for taking bets? Classic Eberron?