Mysterious Khyber... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mysterious Khyber... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Gimp
08-10-07, 05:54 PM I was wondering, if Khyber is the underdark of Eberron, then is it just under Khorvaire or are there a Khyber underdark for every continent and if so... Are they all connected or are they all separate from each other? Or is the underdark just as big as the world itself being spread under the continents and the oceans? Thanks guys, I happen to have very strange questions popping in my mind while I've got nothing to do at work.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-10-07, 06:37 PM Khyber isn't really the Underdark.

They are similar in the sense that they are both underground and filled with evil, but the differences are pretty big.

The underdark is a series of large caves, filled with drow, Ithilliad, and Beholders.

Kyber is the remains of one of the three progenitor Dragons, and is filled with Abberations like Ithilliads and Beholders, but also Daelkyr, Demons, Devils, and Fiends. Kyber is kind of like the abyss, but it's part of the material world.
The_Gimp
08-10-07, 07:27 PM Ah gotcha, I thought it was just an analogy (Syberis, Eberron, Khyber) that formed the world but that Khyber was in fact really like the Underdark, but I know it's different...But it's still "The underground" of Eberron, no?
TiwazTyrsfist
08-10-07, 07:41 PM Yeah.

Basicly, if you go down a ways, you end up in Khyber.

Some of the depths of Sharn are in the upper levels of Khyber.
Revvecor
08-10-07, 11:07 PM Although not cannon (i think). Several people on the boards believe that Khyber has extra dimensional spaces/pocket planes contained within it. Thus it could be larger then you would normally think.
The_Gimp
08-11-07, 09:52 AM Damn...If we make that kind of beliefs true, that makes Khyber a very complex and complicated place, but the idea is cool though, kinda makes it like "Hell" from Catholic beliefs hehe.
OctaviusIII
08-11-07, 02:45 PM Fun sidenote on the whole "hell is underground" thing:

Jewish belief around Roman times held that water was representative of chaos, and that the depths were representative of hell. There was a cave north of Galilee that had been turned into a shrine of Pan by the Greeks (or Romans, I forget) that went down to untold depths. Out of it ran a river, and this they called the Gates of Hell.

Now, although the Eberronian afterlife deals with either the Silver Flame or with Dolurrh, I think it would be fair to say that the heat of deep mines combined with legends of demons below and the creation myth, along with the Devourer being the god of storms and sea and also being evil, one could easily see folks declaring similar caves the Gates of Khyber with as much fear as that cave.

Just a little history :)
The_Gimp
08-11-07, 03:12 PM Well the Gates Of Khyber already exists and are in Sharn. Beneath the Cogs if I'm correct.
Revvecor
08-11-07, 03:18 PM There could be several Gates to Khyber. If you stay along the lines of Greek mythology there were dozens of entrances to the realm of Hades.
Dragonlord20000
08-11-07, 03:24 PM Explorer's Handbook talks about another gate to Khyber in Xen'drik. As the Demon Wastes has numerous Khyber connections including the lair of the keeper.

Also in the Explorer's Handbook description of the gate to Khyber in Xen'drik it alludes to the fact that Khyber connects many of the continents with its expanses. I think it talks about some Dolgaunts using it to travel back and forth from Khorvaire. However I could be wrong or misinterpreting, but this is how I would run it.
mhacdebhandia
08-11-07, 07:17 PM Although not cannon (i think). Several people on the boards believe that Khyber has extra dimensional spaces/pocket planes contained within it. Thus it could be larger then you would normally think.
I would call it "semi-canon" - the primary evidence for this comes from Keith Baker's conversion notes for Dungeon magazine's Savage Tide Adventure Path, where he recommends treating the Abyss and its various demon lords' realms as extradimensional spaces within Khyber, accessible only through plane shift and similar spells, or secret pathways between the worlds.

Since Dungeon is, by the terms of Paizo Publishing's license, 100% official Dungeons & Dragons content (subject to oversight by Wizards of the Coast, in fact), these conversion notes have some real weight as canon.

It has the side benefit of making Khyber way more awesome as a bizarre, multidimensional world-within-the-world than it ever could be as a simple subterranean Underdark equivalent.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Gimp 08-10-07, 05:54 PM	I was wondering, if Khyber is the underdark of Eberron, then is it just under Khorvaire or are there a Khyber underdark for every continent and if so... Are they all connected or are they all separate from each other? Or is the underdark just as big as the world itself being spread under the continents and the oceans? Thanks guys, I happen to have very strange questions popping in my mind while I've got nothing to do at work.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-10-07, 06:37 PM	Khyber isn't really the Underdark. They are similar in the sense that they are both underground and filled with evil, but the differences are pretty big. The underdark is a series of large caves, filled with drow, Ithilliad, and Beholders. Kyber is the remains of one of the three progenitor Dragons, and is filled with Abberations like Ithilliads and Beholders, but also Daelkyr, Demons, Devils, and Fiends. Kyber is kind of like the abyss, but it's part of the material world.
The_Gimp 08-10-07, 07:27 PM	Ah gotcha, I thought it was just an analogy (Syberis, Eberron, Khyber) that formed the world but that Khyber was in fact really like the Underdark, but I know it's different...But it's still "The underground" of Eberron, no?
TiwazTyrsfist 08-10-07, 07:41 PM	Yeah. Basicly, if you go down a ways, you end up in Khyber. Some of the depths of Sharn are in the upper levels of Khyber.
Revvecor 08-10-07, 11:07 PM	Although not cannon (i think). Several people on the boards believe that Khyber has extra dimensional spaces/pocket planes contained within it. Thus it could be larger then you would normally think.
The_Gimp 08-11-07, 09:52 AM	Damn...If we make that kind of beliefs true, that makes Khyber a very complex and complicated place, but the idea is cool though, kinda makes it like "Hell" from Catholic beliefs hehe.
OctaviusIII 08-11-07, 02:45 PM	Fun sidenote on the whole "hell is underground" thing: Jewish belief around Roman times held that water was representative of chaos, and that the depths were representative of hell. There was a cave north of Galilee that had been turned into a shrine of Pan by the Greeks (or Romans, I forget) that went down to untold depths. Out of it ran a river, and this they called the Gates of Hell. Now, although the Eberronian afterlife deals with either the Silver Flame or with Dolurrh, I think it would be fair to say that the heat of deep mines combined with legends of demons below and the creation myth, along with the Devourer being the god of storms and sea and also being evil, one could easily see folks declaring similar caves the Gates of Khyber with as much fear as that cave. Just a little history :)
The_Gimp 08-11-07, 03:12 PM	Well the Gates Of Khyber already exists and are in Sharn. Beneath the Cogs if I'm correct.
Revvecor 08-11-07, 03:18 PM	There could be several Gates to Khyber. If you stay along the lines of Greek mythology there were dozens of entrances to the realm of Hades.
Dragonlord20000 08-11-07, 03:24 PM	Explorer's Handbook talks about another gate to Khyber in Xen'drik. As the Demon Wastes has numerous Khyber connections including the lair of the keeper. Also in the Explorer's Handbook description of the gate to Khyber in Xen'drik it alludes to the fact that Khyber connects many of the continents with its expanses. I think it talks about some Dolgaunts using it to travel back and forth from Khorvaire. However I could be wrong or misinterpreting, but this is how I would run it.
mhacdebhandia 08-11-07, 07:17 PM	Although not cannon (i think). Several people on the boards believe that Khyber has extra dimensional spaces/pocket planes contained within it. Thus it could be larger then you would normally think. I would call it "semi-canon" - the primary evidence for this comes from Keith Baker's conversion notes for Dungeon magazine's Savage Tide Adventure Path, where he recommends treating the Abyss and its various demon lords' realms as extradimensional spaces within Khyber, accessible only through plane shift and similar spells, or secret pathways between the worlds. Since Dungeon is, by the terms of Paizo Publishing's license, 100% official Dungeons & Dragons content (subject to oversight by Wizards of the Coast, in fact), these conversion notes have some real weight as canon. It has the side benefit of making Khyber way more awesome as a bizarre, multidimensional world-within-the-world than it ever could be as a simple subterranean Underdark equivalent.