Post/Author/DateTime	Post
naturax 10-30-07, 12:34 PM	I'm running a game on Friday night for a bunch of players who are new to D&D and completely unfamiliar with Eberron. I'm a little panicked because I don't know exactly what to do. I want to focus on the dynamic between the Ashbound and House Vadalis in the Eldeen Reaches but I could use some ideas for what to do for the first adventure. They are starting at 3rd level and there will be six of them. I'd like the session to be fairly straightforward and actually end within a few hours. The idea I have thus far is that the Ashbound have been stepping up their attacks on House Vadalis and are starting to cause serious economic harm. I think the players should be part of a group of people House Vadalis has encouraged to move to Varna (from all over Khorvaire) in order to aid them bolster their defences and put a stop to the Ashbound. Since the sympathies of the players is going to be with the Ashbound anyways, I'm thinking it'd be neat if the characters were contacted on their journey by an agent of the Ashbound who wants the players to act as spies against Vadalis for the druids. This is a rather complicated setup for a game, which is why I want the task for the first adventure to be relatively straightforward. Something House Vadalis needs doing that will give the PCs plenty of information for their Ashbound contact later on. Any ideas?
korcheck 10-30-07, 12:54 PM	I'm running a game on Friday night for a bunch of players who are new to D&D and completely unfamiliar with Eberron. I'm a little panicked because I don't know exactly what to do. I want to focus on the dynamic between the Ashbound and House Vadalis in the Eldeen Reaches but I could use some ideas for what to do for the first adventure. They are starting at 3rd level and there will be six of them. I'd like the session to be fairly straightforward and actually end within a few hours. The idea I have thus far is that the Ashbound have been stepping up their attacks on House Vadalis and are starting to cause serious economic harm. I think the players should be part of a group of people House Vadalis has encouraged to move to Varna (from all over Khorvaire) in order to aid them bolster their defences and put a stop to the Ashbound. Since the sympathies of the players is going to be with the Ashbound anyways, I'm thinking it'd be neat if the characters were contacted on their journey by an agent of the Ashbound who wants the players to act as spies against Vadalis for the druids. This is a rather complicated setup for a game, which is why I want the task for the first adventure to be relatively straightforward. Something House Vadalis needs doing that will give the PCs plenty of information for their Ashbound contact later on. Any ideas? first if this is going to happen at all make sure none of the players can use arcane magic as the ashbound are adamantly against its use as I recall. As for the idea here's my suggestion off the top of my head: Not only is the house setting up for a population boost to bolster the families and people already there but they are looking to expand a bit to make room for said group in order to do this they will need lumber and other supplies indigenous to the region. This will mean leveling a portion of the forest closest to the town and would be something that not only the ashbound would be against but perhaps even some of the druids that the house employs. These druids may not like the idea but realize the necessity of this so go reluctantly along. Ok that is all I have for now, I hope it helps.
naturax 10-30-07, 03:44 PM	they are looking to expand a bit to make room for said group in order to do this they will need lumber and other supplies indigenous to the region. This will mean leveling a portion of the forest closest to the town and would be something that not only the ashbound would be against but perhaps even some of the druids that the house employs. These druids may not like the idea but realize the necessity of this so go reluctantly along. Ok that is all I have for now, I hope it helps. It makes good sense for Vadalis to want to expand and that would anger the druidic factions. So how can I get the players involved?
korcheck 10-30-07, 04:24 PM	I'll need a bit of help from you first to get the imagination flowing so i need to know a couple of things about the PCs what race/races are they what classes what level they will be starting out as etc. it would help if at least one is a shifter (the primary members of the ashbound iirc) my thought is that if you do have a shifter in the party this could work best but here goes the ashbound contact is a childhood friend or ex lover, the group is going there with no knowledge of the deforestation project. The shifter/whatever group up in the reaches during the war and left to ply his/her trade as a X in the last war so this is something of a home coming for him/her on her travels back with what is left of the squad she/he served with (the rest of the party) she is contacted by said shifter and asked to serve as a spy to find out what is going on (maybe a build up of mercenaries to protect the new homesteaders) they can do this by taking on as a merc group and hire out to the house. thats all i have for now.
naturax 10-31-07, 08:44 AM	Ok, new paln: PCs all receive word that House Vadalis is offering exceptional wages and benefits for any individuals willing to relocate to Varna, with the subtext making the message clear that they are looking for mercenaries to solve their Ashbound problem. At the same time, they'll each be contacted by a member of the Ashbound who wants them to accept the job and act as spies on House Vadalis, but maybe it'd be neat if they each made the decision about which side to be on privately so that there can be some conflict within the group. If anyone thinks that's a bad plan, speak up, and I'll just tell all the PCs that they agree to work for the Ashbound. First adventure will be around freeing/recapturing a selection of experiemental animals from one of Varna's research facilities. Either they're working for the Ashbound and have to orchestrate the animals being released into the wild without blowing their cover (with the understanding that druids will be waiting nearby to safely guide the animals to a sanctuary) and/or House Vadalis will get the new mercenaries to go into the woods and capture their valuable specimens before they get themselves killed. I can have a lot of fun with various types of animals, each with their own quirks, making the session a series of little encounters that each have their share of slow investigation and fast-paced action. And I can throw in different values for the animals so that the players have to pick and choose which ones to go for. I'd love any thoughts anyone has on, say, what kinds of animals to use and what the details of each encounter should be. Thanks!
ChaoticGood 11-02-07, 12:09 AM	If anyone thinks that's a bad plan, speak up, and I'll just tell all the PCs that they agree to work for the Ashbound. First of all, do NOT do this. This is called "railroading," and while DMing sometimes requires this in small amounts, blatantly taking away these players' first major in-character decision is not a good idea at all. In fact, I wouldn't make the assumption that they're going to work for the Ashbound at all. Instead try this: The PCs have signed on to go to a new Vadalis outpost and help defend it against "native unrest." On the way, throw them a "random" encounter with an owlbear. Be sure to play up what a terrible abomination of nature it is. Once the PCs get to Varna, they can meet a few prominent people in town (NPCs for later), learn about the town's plans for expansion, and rest up. The next day, they are asked to provide protection for some lumberjacks. The lumberjacks' efforts are harried by some trees that seem to fall in the most inconvenient ways due to sudden, unexpected gusts of wind. Investigation may reveal an Ashbound druid with the Natural Spell feat, wildshaped as a falcon or other bird of prey, casting gust of wind from a nearby treetop. If they don't capture the druid the first day, repeat the exercise the next day, with some variation. For example, they could be sent to help some workers burn off a field of brush, but the fires keep going out or being smothered by unnaturally thick plant growth (quench and control plants, respectively, both courtesy of a weasel-wildshaped druid in the underbrush). Repeat with variations as needed. Once captured alive (the druid will surrender if possible, knowing that escape is just a wildshape away if the PCs won't be reasonable), the druid will give them the Ashbound's side of the story, telling them that the settlement is encroaching on a sacred glade, and that the settlers must be driven off. This story may or may not be true. It could just be that the druid hopes that the settlers are more likely to sympathize with a "special circumstance" and hopes to lead them down the slippery path towards total opposition to civilization. Now here's the important part: let the players decide which side they want to fight for. If they side with the Ashbound, have some mission in mind that the druids' want accomplished. If they side with Vadalis, let the druid slip plans for an upcoming attack that they can defend against. I know this means more work for you, but it will let the players really feel like their decisions matter, and that is THE most important step towards gaining their trust as a DM.
naturax 11-02-07, 10:42 AM	The PCs have signed on to go to a new Vadalis outpost and help defend it against "native unrest." Thanks for this! I really appreciate you taking the time to write up something I can use. What I've come up with over the last couple of days is this: the PCs will each start off secretly working for the Ashbound while leading double lives as members of the community of Varna. I'm going to have them write this into their character histories and I've told them this is the concept for the game. Once we get started, if they decide to switch sides or play both sides against each other, that won't bother me in the slightest. And I came up with an idea for the adventure tonight that I'm really happy with: they need to "disable" the message station in Varna that House Vadalis uses to contact the other Vadalis communities in the Reaches via messenger birds. The only Sivis messaging station is in Varna, attached to the aviary from which they send birds, so taking out this one station will seriously slow down their communication network. Since this is timed to happen while other Ashbound agents are doing other things simultaneously, the PCs should feel like they had a hand in making something big and important happen in the region. Does that still seem like railroading? Every decision they make at this point will belong to them and I won't stop them from doing whatever they want. The character concepts that I have are two druids (so I had them be members of the Ashbound why not), a shifter barbarian whose player wants to be pro-Ashbound anyways, a Vadalis-marked artificer who wants to betray his house, and a martial monk who is pretty ambivalent about the situation. My plans for the future are to paint both the Ashbound and Vadalis in shades of grey: making certain actions on both sides seem reasonable/extreme and putting the players in a situation where their loyalties might change. Do you still think that this is the kind of situation in which my players will not trust me as a DM?
korcheck 11-02-07, 06:55 PM	The character concepts that I have are two druids (so I had them be members of the Ashbound why not), a shifter barbarian whose player wants to be pro-Ashbound anyways, a Vadalis-marked artificer who wants to betray his house, and a martial monk who is pretty ambivalent about the situation. Ok I'm wondering something here. Are you making the characters for them? If that is the case then I guess that the players will do what they do just how you want them to. I'm all for railroading the player in some instances such as when I have made a story and had most of my ideas planned out and then the players intentionally go another direction. (This has happened once in which the whole group was absolutely convinced that all the clues in the game were just a clever trick on the part of the bad guy which they weren't so instead of following the clues they left. it took me an entire day real life to get them back on track without slapping one of them in the head lol.) I also think that at the very beginning of a campaign in which there are one or more players new to a setting that gentle nudges are in order. As a DM you have to learn the difference and the subtle art of this to do it without ticking off the group or letting them catch on. As the previous person said if you make them choose a side then yes it is railroading. If they have read the info from the book and made the choise on their own then it isn't. You have stated they chose this themselves, sort of, but at the same time your wording has lead us to believe it may be otherwise that is all that is going on here I think. Perhaps a bit of explanation is in order that might clarify this. The story that you are developing seem pretty good and can be used from both sides so if you are forcing the issue than perhaps by giving each of them a choise privately you will see some really interesting game play. If your not then the story is still looking like it will shape nicely into the whole eberron theme.
naturax 11-05-07, 09:46 AM	Ok I'm wondering something here. Are you making the characters for them? If that is the case then I guess that the players will do what they do just how you want them to. Yup. I've asked them for race & class and then built their sheets and worked with them to come up with how to get their players into Varna and secretly working for the Ashbound. I tried building character sheets with new players and it took like 2-3 hours and it was so painful, so very painful, that I decided never to do that again. From now on I'm just handing new players pre-built sheets and they can modify them, or rewrite them entirely, between sessions with my blessings. I'm not running D&D, I'm running Eberron, and if there was any other mechanic I could use to make Eberron go that requires as much or less work than using D&D then I'd love to see it. I'm all for railroading the player in some instances such as when I have made a story and had most of my ideas planned out and then the players intentionally go another direction. (This has happened once in which the whole group was absolutely convinced that all the clues in the game were just a clever trick on the part of the bad guy which they weren't so instead of following the clues they left. it took me an entire day real life to get them back on track without slapping one of them in the head lol.) I also think that at the very beginning of a campaign in which there are one or more players new to a setting that gentle nudges are in order. As a DM you have to learn the difference and the subtle art of this to do it without ticking off the group or letting them catch on. I think I take the opposite approach to you. If I had planned something and the players just didn't want to do it, then I wouldn't force them to do my plot and instead focus on what they want to accomplish. As players who are completely new to the setting (as in they saw the books for the first time when they showed up on Friday) I was comfortable saying "here's how we're going to start, you can change your minds later" otherwise I might have had two problems: 1) players are uncomfortable being made to make such an important decision right off the bat about which faction to belong to because they don't know all the details and how it fits into the rest of the setting and 2) have players pick opposite sides and murder the others. I mean, if you were loyal to Vadalis and you know about an Ashbound sympathiser, you'd have them taken away and never seen again. I didn't want a level of distrust among the players (although that would be suitable for experienced players, I agree with you completely) to start, in fact I want to give them missions that help them build trust with each other so that things get more exciting later on. As the previous person said if you make them choose a side then yes it is railroading. If they have read the info from the book and made the choise on their own then it isn't. You have stated they chose this themselves, sort of, but at the same time your wording has lead us to believe it may be otherwise that is all that is going on here I think. Perhaps a bit of explanation is in order that might clarify this. I hope the above clarifying things sufficiently. It looks like I am guilty of railroading to get the first game started, but I have to admit our game went really well and I don't regret it. The story that you are developing seem pretty good and can be used from both sides so if you are forcing the issue than perhaps by giving each of them a choise privately you will see some really interesting game play. If your not then the story is still looking like it will shape nicely into the whole eberron theme. I was really pleased with my idea and it worked perfectly. The game ended at dawn after they had freed all the birds and stolen the messaging stone AND kidnapped the only Sivis-marked gnome in Varna. Overnight a bunch of fires were started and animals were freed but I didn't give them a lot of details. My job now is to come up with what the Ashbound were actually doing so that the players can experience the consequences of their actions, and the ensuing clean-up/investigation from Vadalis will hopefully spark a whole string of adventures. If anyone has any ideas at all for something Vadalis could be up to that would motivate the Ashbound to make such a large-scale attack on Varna itself (and what the response from Vadalis would be) I'd love to hear 'em. All the players know right now is that Dalin's brother (the one who married Queen of Aundair) was visiting the Vadalis estate that night and that there was a Professor from Morgrave in town (she's a plant for an adventure when she tries to steal a Planar Seal later on). Thanks!
korcheck 11-06-07, 10:38 AM	I fully understand the purpose of directing new players in the way you did. My theory on railroading that may not have been explained is that I have a base story and the players know this. If they don't wish to participate in that story they don't have to and I'll make one they want to play in, it's that simple. So if they go off track I bring them back so as not to be railroaded myself. As far as your story goes let me think on it and I'll get back to you.
naturax 11-06-07, 11:06 AM	As far as your story goes let me think on it and I'll get back to you. That'd be awesome! The best I've come up with so far is Vadalis stealing Ashbound shifters in order to experiment on them and produce magebred shifters... but I think I can do better. Obviously I'm using modern themes about megacorporate agriculture and factory farming so maybe there's a real-world technique or process that I can transport into Eberron? I want to stress that this can't get too gross for me... I think I'd have trouble running a game in which the players rescue, say, magebred cows because the idea of describing a Vadalis milking facility nauseates me... I guess that puts me in a difficult position, but I appreciate any input nonetheless.
naturax 11-06-07, 12:15 PM	I've started a new thread to focus on this particular issue: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=949052
ChaoticGood 11-12-07, 07:49 PM	Sorry for being absent from the discussion since my initial post. With your explanation that the characters have already chosen to play Ashbound or Ashbound sympathizers, I would like to retract my suggestion that you were railroading. Since this was the direction that your players were leaning anyway, it was definitely a good move on your part to play to what they wanted. I'm glad to hear the session went well, and if I think of anything else to add, I'll comment in your new thread. :D