Some thoughts on undoing the Day of Mourning. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Some thoughts on undoing the Day of Mourning. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
robertliguori
11-18-07, 09:14 AM So, say you've got a party of high-level Cyrian nationalists that want to really prove the maxim that "Impossible is a word for things we haven't tried yet." Let's say that these intrepid explorers want to reverse the Day of Mourning.

Now, remaking Cyre whole and unbroken all in one go is flatly impossible. Although a singular event did unmake it, it is always easier to destroy it than to create. So, if we can't simply undo it all at once, let's work it piece by piece. How might we repair a part of the Mournlands?

First, we need to handle the whole "Cannot support life." thing. Surprisingly, this is a fairly straightforward problem to handle. In order to counteract the effects of an area that retards and prohibits natural processes, we need to add in effects that accelerate them. Joyously, we even have an effect that does so; the coterminous period of Irian with Eberron. If we can get a cleric to cast Intensify Manifest Zone on Irian during the Spring Equinox, we should get a positive force strong enough to balance out the negation of healing provided by the Mournlands.

In addition, we need a way to get sunlight down to our designated zone. A spell of Control Winds, if of high enough level and precisely aimed, might work; Control Weather certainly will.

To stave off the general corruptive effects of the Mournlands, adding a Hallow spell would not go unwarranted.

So, we have spent a 7th-level cleric spell, a 5th-level cleric spell, 500 xp, 1000 gp, and the favor of a Greater Dragonmarked member of House Lyrander, to carve out an 80-foot diameter circle in the Mournlands. This does not appear to be sustainable. However, consider the following things:

One: We only have to do this a little to carve out our first livable area. From here, we can set up a forward base, and begin raids on nearby facilities. Having a permanent base means that these raids can be large, well-planned, and well-prepared, and that we can pull out Cyrian artifacts faster than ever before.

Two: There will be a political presence in the Mournlands beyond that of the Lord of Blades. Anyone not a Blade will be in favor of this at least in general terms; with luck, we can parley the use of Cyre's first forward bases as staging areas for a Thranish crusade against the Lord, in return for the clerical support we so desperately need.

Three: There is a very large number of Cyrian refugees with class levels. Giving them the opportunity to fight for their homeland (and be the ones defending the fortifications rather than raiding the dungeon) will attract a lot of them.

So, if the initial attempt to push back the Mournlands works, you can parley every resource you have acquired in your raids and expeditions into more clerical magic to repeat the process in three years time. You may never reclaim every inch of Cyrian soil, but you could well turn Cyre into a functioning nation again, albeit a hostile and dangerous one.

So, thoughts on the preceding plan?
Yakman
11-18-07, 02:14 PM First, we need to handle the whole "Cannot support life." thing. Surprisingly, this is a fairly straightforward problem to handle. In order to counteract the effects of an area that retards and prohibits natural processes, we need to add in effects that accelerate them. Joyously, we even have an effect that does so; the coterminous period of Irian with Eberron. If we can get a cleric to cast Intensify Manifest Zone on Irian during the Spring Equinox, we should get a positive force strong enough to balance out the negation of healing provided by the Mournlands.
But how to make it permanent? After all, it has to negate the most epic of epic level effects--the Mourning itself. Just casting the spell alone is unlikely to have the desired impact.
In addition, we need a way to get sunlight down to our designated zone. A spell of Control Winds, if of high enough level and precisely aimed, might work; Control Weather certainly will.
Will it? Or perhaps it will simply spawn malign air/fog/poison gas elementals from a living spell effect. Remember, the mourning is VERY powerful magic. Magic of the kind not seen in thousands of years. Just casting a spell is unlikely to do anything constructive.
So, we have spent a 7th-level cleric spell, a 5th-level cleric spell, 500 xp, 1000 gp, and the favor of a Greater Dragonmarked member of House Lyrander, to carve out an 80-foot diameter circle in the Mournlands. This does not appear to be sustainable. However, consider the following things:

One: We only have to do this a little to carve out our first livable area. From here, we can set up a forward base, and begin raids on nearby facilities. Having a permanent base means that these raids can be large, well-planned, and well-prepared, and that we can pull out Cyrian artifacts faster than ever before.
How much of a liveable area would this create? Even if it should work, would not the mists quickly move back in? Would this small spark of life not attract things better left undisturbed?
Two: There will be a political presence in the Mournlands beyond that of the Lord of Blades. Anyone not a Blade will be in favor of this at least in general terms; with luck, we can parley the use of Cyre's first forward bases as staging areas for a Thranish crusade against the Lord, in return for the clerical support we so desperately need.
Not neccessarily. Rousing the ire of the LoBster is something that surrounding states would not be interested in--nor would they neccessarily see a return of Cyran power as a benefit to them.
Three: There is a very large number of Cyrian refugees with class levels. Giving them the opportunity to fight for their homeland (and be the ones defending the fortifications rather than raiding the dungeon) will attract a lot of them.
They are also poor and scattered, interested in rebuilding their lives and maybe not so keen on throwing their lives away on a fool's dream.
So, if the initial attempt to push back the Mournlands works, you can parley every resource you have acquired in your raids and expeditions into more clerical magic to repeat the process in three years time. You may never reclaim every inch of Cyrian soil, but you could well turn Cyre into a functioning nation again, albeit a hostile and dangerous one.

So, thoughts on the preceding plan?
Just to play a devil's advocate, but it seems overly optimistic, and not exceptionally challenging--something that a mid- to high-level party could get started on. The Mourning is most likely a post-Epic level effect, which would require the most powerful magic in the world to even begin to reverse. Dealing with the LoBster might prove to be the least of the PCs worries--the Living Spells and other nasties might far outweigh his small (but growing) power. Moreover, a campaign of this sort must answer the question: what the heck happened in the first place?

Many here believe that it was the result of the Cyran military trying to create a defensive barrier around the realm which resulted in Dolurrh going permanently co-terminous with the country. My personal take is that the Aurum did it by awakening a Rajah.

If it was the awakening of a Rajah, then the PCs are going to have to deal with the biggest of the biggest bads out there. If it was Dolurrh, good luck, because it's going to be long years in a library of old spells trying to figure out what to do about it.

Whatever caused it, those same forces may still be present, and will work their darndest to keep Mournland the way it is.
robertliguori
11-18-07, 03:45 PM But how to make it permanent? After all, it has to negate the most epic of epic level effects--the Mourning itself. Just casting the spell alone is unlikely to have the desired impact.

With respect, why not? I mean, as far as I can tell, the 'cannot support life' thing is simply a combination of a completely devastated ecosystem, combined with a specific magical effect that prevents natural healing (and presumably also interferes with conception and germination, though I must say that if you're having unprotected sex in the Mournlands, you deserve the set of half-farspawn fiendish scion triplets that will ensue.) Irian is the single greatest force of life, vitality, renewal, and growth that exists in the Eberron cosmology. It may not make the Mournland a happy garden of flowers and puppies, but I see no reason to assume that the no-healing effect of the Mournland is stronger than a manifest zone. Different? Yes. Working according to unknown principles? Certainly. But the problem with something being chaotic and unknowable is that if enough attempts at overcoming it are made, one will work according to sheer luck. Why not this one?

Will it? Or perhaps it will simply spawn malign air/fog/poison gas elementals from a living spell effect. Remember, the mourning is VERY powerful magic. Magic of the kind not seen in thousands of years. Just casting a spell is unlikely to do anything constructive.

Then you kill the elemental, pull out your back-up scroll set or dragonmark rod, and try again. Worst-case scenario, you simply fly above the Mournland and burrow down. The Mournlands are powerful, yes, but they are limited. Certain spell effects work differently sometimes, but that just means that they work properly most of the time.

How much of a liveable area would this create? Even if it should work, would not the mists quickly move back in? Would this small spark of life not attract things better left undisturbed?

As to the first? There is no reason to assume it should. Everything that is known about the Mournlands suggest that it came and went with the Day of Mourning. This may not be the case; there may well be an as-of-yet-undetected sentience that is directing every single strange magical effect and that will bend reality itself to extinguish this pinprick of light in the darkness.

This hypothetical sentience, and the perfectly expected flood of monsters attacking the point of light under expected circumstances, are both adventurer problems; they can be solved by the sufficient application of hit point damage. If there is a mind directing the flow of the Mournlands, that mind can be found, and the face in front of that mind can be stabbed repeatedly. Likewise, if you can muster the power and influence to cast a series of seventh-level-and-up spells repeatedly and on schedule, you can muster the military might to deal with an entire ravening horde of Mournlands monstrosities.

Not neccessarily. Rousing the ire of the LoBster is something that surrounding states would not be interested in--nor would they neccessarily see a return of Cyran power as a benefit to them.

Thrane already has the LoB's ire, as he does theirs. Besides, remember that the nation of Thrane is lead to a greater or lesser degree by the Silver Flame, and that the Silver Flame itself wants to purify corruption and destroy evil. The same force that inspires paladins in the Demon Wastes should be pushing hard for the renewal of Cyre, regardless of what its clerics thing is politically expedient.

They are also poor and scattered, interested in rebuilding their lives and maybe not so keen on throwing their lives away on a fool's dream.

It depends on your group and view of the universe, of course; for my players, ex-Cyrean adventurer is the new CG drow seeking to throw off the shackles of his people.

Just to play a devil's advocate, but it seems overly optimistic, and not exceptionally challenging--something that a mid- to high-level party could get started on. The Mourning is most likely a post-Epic level effect, which would require the most powerful magic in the world to even begin to reverse. Dealing with the LoBster might prove to be the least of the PCs worries--the Living Spells and other nasties might far outweigh his small (but growing) power.

Well, yes; the way the world of Eberron is structured, 15 is the new epic. Wizard17s are capable of producing plot-device effects for the low price of 5,000 xp a pop. The strength of Eberron is that there is very little gameplay and story segregation; the world itself is built out of the same effects and on the same rules as the adventurers. By the time you are capable of repeatedly casting Intensify Manifest Zone on schedule, you can functionally recreate the Mournlands elsewhere; I see no reason to assume why you can't also unmake them.

Moreover, a campaign of this sort must answer the question: what the heck happened in the first place?

Many here believe that it was the result of the Cyran military trying to create a defensive barrier around the realm which resulted in Dolurrh going permanently co-terminous with the country. My personal take is that the Aurum did it by awakening a Rajah.

If it was the awakening of a Rajah, then the PCs are going to have to deal with the biggest of the biggest bads out there. If it was Dolurrh, good luck, because it's going to be long years in a library of old spells trying to figure out what to do about it.

Whatever caused it, those same forces may still be present, and will work their darndest to keep Mournland the way it is.

Well, that depends. Whatever else we know about the Mournlands, we know that they are not inimical to civilization in general. If the Mournlands (or the entity controlling them) has true and passionate hate for the survival of any group of sentients trying to exist there in the long-term, both the Lord of Blades and the Godforged should be a distant memory. Heck, there are even bands of humanoids who live there semi-permanently. Now, none of these groups are particularly nice. One could make the argument that a concerted effort to undo the damage of the Day of Mourning would attract the attention of a putative Mournmaster much faster than warforged playing with toys or the occasional raid into a ruin. I cheerfully agree that there could be a Rajah or similarly nasty entity playing games with the Mournlands.

But there is (to my knowledge) no in-setting reason to assume so. If this were the case, one would expect a flight of coutals to notice, to comment to each other "Hey, look, it's just like what happened the last time a bunch of mortals almost released a rajah. Huh. ....Oh ****.", deliver a message to Thrane, and watch as the Church of the Silver Flame sets off on their next inquisition. A rajah is certainly powerful enough and subtle enough to hide their influence from the world, if they so choose. But there's nothing subtle about the Mournlands.

As for the planar effect; planar geography and astrology are well-known quantities. Aside from simply looking at the planes, it should be trivially possible to test whether or not the Mournlands are a planar confluence. (If they are, dropping a few of the less-critical Dimensional Seals should do the trick.)

We are in agreement that it should take extremely powerful magic to even make a dent in the Mournlands. However, I think that 7th-level spells, used at a specific, most favorable hour of planar conjunction, are sufficient to do so, and that 10th-level spells (or even Wishes) aren't strictly necessary. The point of Eberron is that magic can change the world, if applied in the right way. What, aside from the fact that no one's tried anything like this in canon, is stopping this application of magic from changing the world?

(Note: I assume that there are no or very few attempts to repair the damage to Cyre based on not knowing of any. I thereby deduce that rather than being flatly impossible, it's simply something no one has thought to try.)
The Ubbergeek
11-19-07, 07:03 PM I'd avise looking at Dark Sun stuff and the way druids and the healer-mages work on reviving and regaining the wasted, spent lands... that could be usefull for ideas and cocnepts.
Rekko
11-29-07, 08:43 AM Add a permanency spell to make it permanent ;)

I suggest you also add a wish and an eldritch machine, maybe a ritual and a sacrifice.

All in all, this idea is interesting, but the way you described it make it seem non-Epic while it should be high to epic level gaming, in my opinion. Moreover, I don't think that scattered Cyrans have any knowledge on how to undo the Mourning after only 4 years.

Rekko
Belkar
11-29-07, 09:32 AM One word. Truenaming.

Edymnion posted on a thread a while back his take on the mourning, and that is was actually caused by Truename magic - where the dragons "un-named" Cyre. Which is why the mist pretty much stops at Cyres current policital boundaries at the time.

Anyway... whether you buy that or not... it got me to thinking.

The Truespeak sections of ToM detail several high-level magical spells and Truename research techniques that could be used to reverse this process - no matter how it was caused. You would have to re-name Cyre. Change it's position and name in the universe - make it into something else completely...

Powerful Truename magic - to be true... probably something only a dedicated and intrepid band of adventurers could discover after years of research and toil... maybe in the ruins of a powerful giant-kin Truenamer in Xen'Drik - or on the continent of Argonessen... ;)

Meh. It's a thought. Depending on your campaign... Truespeak could be a "strange, unknown" force that no-one (maybe not even your players) has heard of. That'd be pretty cool. And it provides the mechanics (high-level, though they are) to change the face of landscape on such a scale.
Edymnion
12-06-07, 12:48 PM One word. Truenaming.

Edymnion posted on a thread a while back his take on the mourning, and that is was actually caused by Truename magic - where the dragons "un-named" Cyre. Which is why the mist pretty much stops at Cyres current policital boundaries at the time.I actually considered that as something I would have to make possible with a suitably high level version of that Truenamer/Bard PrC I want to make (ooh, I should name it the Truesinger. There, got that much of it done!). Since I make it where it was the combination of word and melody that sang the worlds into existance, they could sing Cyre back just the way it was, and everyone that died with it.

That would be some majorly epic level stuff though, considering that by the time someone could pull that off, they would effectively have the power to remake the world as they saw fit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
robertliguori 11-18-07, 09:14 AM	So, say you've got a party of high-level Cyrian nationalists that want to really prove the maxim that "Impossible is a word for things we haven't tried yet." Let's say that these intrepid explorers want to reverse the Day of Mourning. Now, remaking Cyre whole and unbroken all in one go is flatly impossible. Although a singular event did unmake it, it is always easier to destroy it than to create. So, if we can't simply undo it all at once, let's work it piece by piece. How might we repair a part of the Mournlands? First, we need to handle the whole "Cannot support life." thing. Surprisingly, this is a fairly straightforward problem to handle. In order to counteract the effects of an area that retards and prohibits natural processes, we need to add in effects that accelerate them. Joyously, we even have an effect that does so; the coterminous period of Irian with Eberron. If we can get a cleric to cast Intensify Manifest Zone on Irian during the Spring Equinox, we should get a positive force strong enough to balance out the negation of healing provided by the Mournlands. In addition, we need a way to get sunlight down to our designated zone. A spell of Control Winds, if of high enough level and precisely aimed, might work; Control Weather certainly will. To stave off the general corruptive effects of the Mournlands, adding a Hallow spell would not go unwarranted. So, we have spent a 7th-level cleric spell, a 5th-level cleric spell, 500 xp, 1000 gp, and the favor of a Greater Dragonmarked member of House Lyrander, to carve out an 80-foot diameter circle in the Mournlands. This does not appear to be sustainable. However, consider the following things: One: We only have to do this a little to carve out our first livable area. From here, we can set up a forward base, and begin raids on nearby facilities. Having a permanent base means that these raids can be large, well-planned, and well-prepared, and that we can pull out Cyrian artifacts faster than ever before. Two: There will be a political presence in the Mournlands beyond that of the Lord of Blades. Anyone not a Blade will be in favor of this at least in general terms; with luck, we can parley the use of Cyre's first forward bases as staging areas for a Thranish crusade against the Lord, in return for the clerical support we so desperately need. Three: There is a very large number of Cyrian refugees with class levels. Giving them the opportunity to fight for their homeland (and be the ones defending the fortifications rather than raiding the dungeon) will attract a lot of them. So, if the initial attempt to push back the Mournlands works, you can parley every resource you have acquired in your raids and expeditions into more clerical magic to repeat the process in three years time. You may never reclaim every inch of Cyrian soil, but you could well turn Cyre into a functioning nation again, albeit a hostile and dangerous one. So, thoughts on the preceding plan?
Yakman 11-18-07, 02:14 PM	First, we need to handle the whole "Cannot support life." thing. Surprisingly, this is a fairly straightforward problem to handle. In order to counteract the effects of an area that retards and prohibits natural processes, we need to add in effects that accelerate them. Joyously, we even have an effect that does so; the coterminous period of Irian with Eberron. If we can get a cleric to cast Intensify Manifest Zone on Irian during the Spring Equinox, we should get a positive force strong enough to balance out the negation of healing provided by the Mournlands. But how to make it permanent? After all, it has to negate the most epic of epic level effects--the Mourning itself. Just casting the spell alone is unlikely to have the desired impact. In addition, we need a way to get sunlight down to our designated zone. A spell of Control Winds, if of high enough level and precisely aimed, might work; Control Weather certainly will. Will it? Or perhaps it will simply spawn malign air/fog/poison gas elementals from a living spell effect. Remember, the mourning is VERY powerful magic. Magic of the kind not seen in thousands of years. Just casting a spell is unlikely to do anything constructive. So, we have spent a 7th-level cleric spell, a 5th-level cleric spell, 500 xp, 1000 gp, and the favor of a Greater Dragonmarked member of House Lyrander, to carve out an 80-foot diameter circle in the Mournlands. This does not appear to be sustainable. However, consider the following things: One: We only have to do this a little to carve out our first livable area. From here, we can set up a forward base, and begin raids on nearby facilities. Having a permanent base means that these raids can be large, well-planned, and well-prepared, and that we can pull out Cyrian artifacts faster than ever before. How much of a liveable area would this create? Even if it should work, would not the mists quickly move back in? Would this small spark of life not attract things better left undisturbed? Two: There will be a political presence in the Mournlands beyond that of the Lord of Blades. Anyone not a Blade will be in favor of this at least in general terms; with luck, we can parley the use of Cyre's first forward bases as staging areas for a Thranish crusade against the Lord, in return for the clerical support we so desperately need. Not neccessarily. Rousing the ire of the LoBster is something that surrounding states would not be interested in--nor would they neccessarily see a return of Cyran power as a benefit to them. Three: There is a very large number of Cyrian refugees with class levels. Giving them the opportunity to fight for their homeland (and be the ones defending the fortifications rather than raiding the dungeon) will attract a lot of them. They are also poor and scattered, interested in rebuilding their lives and maybe not so keen on throwing their lives away on a fool's dream. So, if the initial attempt to push back the Mournlands works, you can parley every resource you have acquired in your raids and expeditions into more clerical magic to repeat the process in three years time. You may never reclaim every inch of Cyrian soil, but you could well turn Cyre into a functioning nation again, albeit a hostile and dangerous one. So, thoughts on the preceding plan? Just to play a devil's advocate, but it seems overly optimistic, and not exceptionally challenging--something that a mid- to high-level party could get started on. The Mourning is most likely a post-Epic level effect, which would require the most powerful magic in the world to even begin to reverse. Dealing with the LoBster might prove to be the least of the PCs worries--the Living Spells and other nasties might far outweigh his small (but growing) power. Moreover, a campaign of this sort must answer the question: what the heck happened in the first place? Many here believe that it was the result of the Cyran military trying to create a defensive barrier around the realm which resulted in Dolurrh going permanently co-terminous with the country. My personal take is that the Aurum did it by awakening a Rajah. If it was the awakening of a Rajah, then the PCs are going to have to deal with the biggest of the biggest bads out there. If it was Dolurrh, good luck, because it's going to be long years in a library of old spells trying to figure out what to do about it. Whatever caused it, those same forces may still be present, and will work their darndest to keep Mournland the way it is.
robertliguori 11-18-07, 03:45 PM	But how to make it permanent? After all, it has to negate the most epic of epic level effects--the Mourning itself. Just casting the spell alone is unlikely to have the desired impact. With respect, why not? I mean, as far as I can tell, the 'cannot support life' thing is simply a combination of a completely devastated ecosystem, combined with a specific magical effect that prevents natural healing (and presumably also interferes with conception and germination, though I must say that if you're having unprotected sex in the Mournlands, you deserve the set of half-farspawn fiendish scion triplets that will ensue.) Irian is the single greatest force of life, vitality, renewal, and growth that exists in the Eberron cosmology. It may not make the Mournland a happy garden of flowers and puppies, but I see no reason to assume that the no-healing effect of the Mournland is stronger than a manifest zone. Different? Yes. Working according to unknown principles? Certainly. But the problem with something being chaotic and unknowable is that if enough attempts at overcoming it are made, one will work according to sheer luck. Why not this one? Will it? Or perhaps it will simply spawn malign air/fog/poison gas elementals from a living spell effect. Remember, the mourning is VERY powerful magic. Magic of the kind not seen in thousands of years. Just casting a spell is unlikely to do anything constructive. Then you kill the elemental, pull out your back-up scroll set or dragonmark rod, and try again. Worst-case scenario, you simply fly above the Mournland and burrow down. The Mournlands are powerful, yes, but they are limited. Certain spell effects work differently sometimes, but that just means that they work properly most of the time. How much of a liveable area would this create? Even if it should work, would not the mists quickly move back in? Would this small spark of life not attract things better left undisturbed? As to the first? There is no reason to assume it should. Everything that is known about the Mournlands suggest that it came and went with the Day of Mourning. This may not be the case; there may well be an as-of-yet-undetected sentience that is directing every single strange magical effect and that will bend reality itself to extinguish this pinprick of light in the darkness. This hypothetical sentience, and the perfectly expected flood of monsters attacking the point of light under expected circumstances, are both adventurer problems; they can be solved by the sufficient application of hit point damage. If there is a mind directing the flow of the Mournlands, that mind can be found, and the face in front of that mind can be stabbed repeatedly. Likewise, if you can muster the power and influence to cast a series of seventh-level-and-up spells repeatedly and on schedule, you can muster the military might to deal with an entire ravening horde of Mournlands monstrosities. Not neccessarily. Rousing the ire of the LoBster is something that surrounding states would not be interested in--nor would they neccessarily see a return of Cyran power as a benefit to them. Thrane already has the LoB's ire, as he does theirs. Besides, remember that the nation of Thrane is lead to a greater or lesser degree by the Silver Flame, and that the Silver Flame itself wants to purify corruption and destroy evil. The same force that inspires paladins in the Demon Wastes should be pushing hard for the renewal of Cyre, regardless of what its clerics thing is politically expedient. They are also poor and scattered, interested in rebuilding their lives and maybe not so keen on throwing their lives away on a fool's dream. It depends on your group and view of the universe, of course; for my players, ex-Cyrean adventurer is the new CG drow seeking to throw off the shackles of his people. Just to play a devil's advocate, but it seems overly optimistic, and not exceptionally challenging--something that a mid- to high-level party could get started on. The Mourning is most likely a post-Epic level effect, which would require the most powerful magic in the world to even begin to reverse. Dealing with the LoBster might prove to be the least of the PCs worries--the Living Spells and other nasties might far outweigh his small (but growing) power. Well, yes; the way the world of Eberron is structured, 15 is the new epic. Wizard17s are capable of producing plot-device effects for the low price of 5,000 xp a pop. The strength of Eberron is that there is very little gameplay and story segregation; the world itself is built out of the same effects and on the same rules as the adventurers. By the time you are capable of repeatedly casting Intensify Manifest Zone on schedule, you can functionally recreate the Mournlands elsewhere; I see no reason to assume why you can't also unmake them. Moreover, a campaign of this sort must answer the question: what the heck happened in the first place? Many here believe that it was the result of the Cyran military trying to create a defensive barrier around the realm which resulted in Dolurrh going permanently co-terminous with the country. My personal take is that the Aurum did it by awakening a Rajah. If it was the awakening of a Rajah, then the PCs are going to have to deal with the biggest of the biggest bads out there. If it was Dolurrh, good luck, because it's going to be long years in a library of old spells trying to figure out what to do about it. Whatever caused it, those same forces may still be present, and will work their darndest to keep Mournland the way it is. Well, that depends. Whatever else we know about the Mournlands, we know that they are not inimical to civilization in general. If the Mournlands (or the entity controlling them) has true and passionate hate for the survival of any group of sentients trying to exist there in the long-term, both the Lord of Blades and the Godforged should be a distant memory. Heck, there are even bands of humanoids who live there semi-permanently. Now, none of these groups are particularly nice. One could make the argument that a concerted effort to undo the damage of the Day of Mourning would attract the attention of a putative Mournmaster much faster than warforged playing with toys or the occasional raid into a ruin. I cheerfully agree that there could be a Rajah or similarly nasty entity playing games with the Mournlands. But there is (to my knowledge) no in-setting reason to assume so. If this were the case, one would expect a flight of coutals to notice, to comment to each other "Hey, look, it's just like what happened the last time a bunch of mortals almost released a rajah. Huh. ....Oh ****.", deliver a message to Thrane, and watch as the Church of the Silver Flame sets off on their next inquisition. A rajah is certainly powerful enough and subtle enough to hide their influence from the world, if they so choose. But there's nothing subtle about the Mournlands. As for the planar effect; planar geography and astrology are well-known quantities. Aside from simply looking at the planes, it should be trivially possible to test whether or not the Mournlands are a planar confluence. (If they are, dropping a few of the less-critical Dimensional Seals should do the trick.) We are in agreement that it should take extremely powerful magic to even make a dent in the Mournlands. However, I think that 7th-level spells, used at a specific, most favorable hour of planar conjunction, are sufficient to do so, and that 10th-level spells (or even Wishes) aren't strictly necessary. The point of Eberron is that magic can change the world, if applied in the right way. What, aside from the fact that no one's tried anything like this in canon, is stopping this application of magic from changing the world? (Note: I assume that there are no or very few attempts to repair the damage to Cyre based on not knowing of any. I thereby deduce that rather than being flatly impossible, it's simply something no one has thought to try.)
The Ubbergeek 11-19-07, 07:03 PM	I'd avise looking at Dark Sun stuff and the way druids and the healer-mages work on reviving and regaining the wasted, spent lands... that could be usefull for ideas and cocnepts.
Rekko 11-29-07, 08:43 AM	Add a permanency spell to make it permanent ;) I suggest you also add a wish and an eldritch machine, maybe a ritual and a sacrifice. All in all, this idea is interesting, but the way you described it make it seem non-Epic while it should be high to epic level gaming, in my opinion. Moreover, I don't think that scattered Cyrans have any knowledge on how to undo the Mourning after only 4 years. Rekko
Belkar 11-29-07, 09:32 AM	One word. Truenaming. Edymnion posted on a thread a while back his take on the mourning, and that is was actually caused by Truename magic - where the dragons "un-named" Cyre. Which is why the mist pretty much stops at Cyres current policital boundaries at the time. Anyway... whether you buy that or not... it got me to thinking. The Truespeak sections of ToM detail several high-level magical spells and Truename research techniques that could be used to reverse this process - no matter how it was caused. You would have to re-name Cyre. Change it's position and name in the universe - make it into something else completely... Powerful Truename magic - to be true... probably something only a dedicated and intrepid band of adventurers could discover after years of research and toil... maybe in the ruins of a powerful giant-kin Truenamer in Xen'Drik - or on the continent of Argonessen... ;) Meh. It's a thought. Depending on your campaign... Truespeak could be a "strange, unknown" force that no-one (maybe not even your players) has heard of. That'd be pretty cool. And it provides the mechanics (high-level, though they are) to change the face of landscape on such a scale.
Edymnion 12-06-07, 12:48 PM	One word. Truenaming. Edymnion posted on a thread a while back his take on the mourning, and that is was actually caused by Truename magic - where the dragons "un-named" Cyre. Which is why the mist pretty much stops at Cyres current policital boundaries at the time.I actually considered that as something I would have to make possible with a suitably high level version of that Truenamer/Bard PrC I want to make (ooh, I should name it the Truesinger. There, got that much of it done!). Since I make it where it was the combination of word and melody that sang the worlds into existance, they could sing Cyre back just the way it was, and everyone that died with it. That would be some majorly epic level stuff though, considering that by the time someone could pull that off, they would effectively have the power to remake the world as they saw fit.