Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Navvik 06-10-07, 05:49 PM	According to all of the souce material i've read, the average war veteran is about level two, however in all of the Eberron books i've read, the Lord of blades, while CR12; it says nothing aside from the fact that he surrounds himself with lower level minions. From your interpretation would that mean that the average minion of the LoB is lvl2? or... would "lower" in the context of the passage on the mournland indicate that by lower they in fact mean lower in level when compared to the LoB. As far as additional info is required, i'm statting out a 1000 warforged battle against a lvl 20 druid, and i wanted to know what you all thought about that thing i said earlier.
OctaviusIII 06-11-07, 03:09 AM	Go with the ratio of followers from the Followers feat. He's probably got a couple of highish level lieutenants, some less high level subcommanders, and so on down the line, with the vast majority being level 1 or 2.
Altyrium 06-11-07, 03:20 AM	that sounds like a sweet game to be in dude.
naturax 06-11-07, 04:26 AM	I want that druid to have a cool feat that lets all of his summoned animals benefit from the "rusting grasp" spell.
Need_A_Life 06-11-07, 04:39 AM	According to all of the souce material i've read, the average war veteran is about level two, however in all of the Eberron books i've read, the Lord of blades, while CR12; it says nothing aside from the fact that he surrounds himself with lower level minions. From your interpretation would that mean that the average minion of the LoB is lvl2? or... would "lower" in the context of the passage on the mournland indicate that by lower they in fact mean lower in level when compared to the LoB. As far as additional info is required, i'm statting out a 1000 warforged battle against a lvl 20 druid, and i wanted to know what you all thought about that thing i said earlier. Use the Mob template (DMGII) and add 5-6 of them, with the Lord of Blades being protected by them. Give them Higher Ground and adamantine body and you've got a pretty decent army (for Eberron). Also, bump him up a few levels... if your players are pushing Epic (as a druid, no less) you can afford to make him level 16-18 (In keeping with Jaela Daran).
garner_adam 06-11-07, 09:14 AM	I certainly hope you don't plan on rolling out this battle. But I'll give some mechanics insight. A 20th level Druid could WIld Shape in to a Huge Earth Elemntal. Using the Earth Glide Ability he could come in and out of the conflict as he desires. If the Druid is on the defense. (As in for whatever reason can not escape or use harassing tactics) I'd say that the mere terraforming powers of a druid make the fight even more hopeless. The 20th level druid commands the weather and create 100ft walls in an instance. He can summon to his aid a multitude of massive creatures. Using Repel Metal or Stone he can by time even in the most dire circumstances. And as a reminder this is only if the druid feels he can't abandon his position. Ultimately all forms of defense will likely lead up to a barrage of catastrophic spells most notably four round Storms of Vengeance. The odds for an army ill prepared for this battle are slim. If the warforged are willing to retreat and recoup they increase thier odds siginificantly. This is because time works against spell casters on the defense. Even still with a constant harrasment lasting over a period of about two days it would ultimately lead up to a very exhausted Druid and his Animal Companion tearing through the ranks with their high attack bonus. Then the warforged might win a battle.
Cifer 06-11-07, 05:25 PM	@Navvik Most warforged start their military career as fighter2 (not warrior). That's their little advantage above the fleshies which made them valuable enough to buy. In general, though, the druid would win as long as he is a little bit creative.
korcheck 06-11-07, 06:24 PM	I really wish there were a better system for mass battles then what the came up with for the system. Their way takes a very long time unless some one out there has a better way then the book (which basically sets it up like little adventures).
Navvik 06-12-07, 11:58 AM	that sounds like a sweet game to be in dude. well basically what it was, was that warforged slowly trickled into Green heart.... and layed it to waste. In the story the great pine lvl20 druid survived, because he pretended to be a tree. one of my players didnt think it was possible so i agreed to stat it out with him. as far as that goes, this is how its going to happen. on a sneak attack, they will move in waves, first the warriors with spiked chains ( can you say aid another grapple checks?) followed by the low level casters and psionic warforged, followed by burlier fighters to re-do the grappling ( cause seriously, the warriors are gonne die with all the druid spells) then we move on to the ranged warforged with alchemist arrows to set the ground aflame and hopefully burn the tree to death( wont work, but worth a shot) then we move in with the Juggernauts who charge. If they survive, they move to grapple a 3rd time, and hold the tree in place ( about this time the tree should be running low on spells) for the warforged titan, a single titan. Then if all else fails, the LoB will either retreat, or close the distance with his personal guard and us his artificer goodness to wreak havoc on whatever's left. personally i think they could do it, but the person i'm fighting ( playing the role of the tree) is going to metagame it by giving him a spell outfit aimed at directly taking down warfogred, when in fact the tree had no idea warforged were coming. he'll also argue that they should be lower level despite not knowing much about warforged and deeming them as "broken" due to the fact that they can march much further than a fleshie in a single day and only take a few points of nonleathal which will heal naturall, and they dont need to rest and such. in my campaign they are the ultimate soldier.
Navvik 06-12-07, 12:10 PM	i did my own take of the last war adventures, and just had the LoB in the mournlands crank out all manner of twisted warforged, like a warforged that's basically an arrow demon because of its 4 arms and huge bows it uses. or the ragewalker warforged, which is basically trhe ragewalker from mm3, but in warforged style.or a battalion of intelligent warforged titans. i broke a lot of rules :embarrass but then again i like throwing crazy stuff at my players.
Cifer 06-12-07, 01:21 PM	well basically what it was, was that warforged slowly trickled into Green heart.... and layed it to waste. In the story the great pine lvl20 druid survived, because he pretended to be a tree. one of my players didnt think it was possible so i agreed to stat it out with him. as far as that goes, this is how its going to happen. on a sneak attack, they will move in waves And this is precisely where the problem is - if twentieth level druids get surpriesed, something has gone horribly wrong (i.e. the wards of a 20th level caster have been disabled by level 10- guys without him noticing). This means he will be prepared. Further, I don't even think the LoBster has a greater numerical advantage. Can you say Horrid and Dire Animals? Guess who created them.
Navvik 06-12-07, 01:56 PM	And this is precisely where the problem is - if twentieth level druids get surpriesed, something has gone horribly wrong (i.e. the wards of a 20th level caster have been disabled by level 10- guys without him noticing). This means he will be prepared. Further, I don't even think the LoBster has a greater numerical advantage. Can you say Horrid and Dire Animals? Guess who created them. in reply to that, can you say creatures of the mournlands? guess who handled those. AND all horrid animals impose negatives to handle animal, they were bred by the Gatekeeps, who do not follow typical druidic tradition and took their teachings from a dragon, not the 20th lvl druid in question. and as such all but the gatekeepers take negatives to handle animal with all types of horrid animal. ECS also states that Horrid animals are generally found in : the Shadow Marches, Q'barra, the Demon Wastes, and Droamm with the smallest percentage being in the eldeen reaches. but aside from that the whole thing was this, a few warforged show up months in advance and ask for training in the druidic or ranger arts. blend in with the townspeople, then when the LoB attacks, they join in after a few rounds. Think.... sleeper cell who get their orders from a final messenger type dealie. besides, in the term of surprise, the druid has to be awakened in order to fight back/cast spells, which takes a while.
Cifer 06-13-07, 09:17 AM	in reply to that, can you say creatures of the mournlands? guess who handled those. I can say it, but to my knowledge, there's no mentioning of the LoBster using anything but constructs in any of the sourcebooks. Further, I'd deem the population density of the Mournland as rather low compared to the Reaches, with most of the monsters probably incapable of leaving them or much too psychotic to be trained by constructs who usually can't even show empathy to humans. AND all horrid animals impose negatives to handle animal, they were bred by the Gatekeeps, who do not follow typical druidic tradition and took their teachings from a dragon, not the 20th lvl druid in question. Wait... the gatekeepers are the original druids. Vvaraak was the one who brought druidic tradition to the lesser races a full 10000 years before Oalian is awakened. Further, at twentieth level negatives to handle animal stop mattering. Oh, and you've also got a small gatekeeper population in the Reaches, with the keepers and the wardens being pretty much the only two sects who like each other. And warforged asking for training in the druidic arts in higher numbers? Someone will try some mindreading on one of them which would give away the whole plot instantly. On the other hand side, if it's only a few of them, I can't see how they're going to matter in the battle since you've still got the main force which has to traverse the whole forest and will be noticed when doing so. The point of sleepers is that they're inconspicious, which is precisely what a bulk of warforged trying to lie low in a druidic forest aren't. besides, in the term of surprise, the druid has to be awakened in order to fight back/cast spells, which takes a while. Where does it say that?
OctaviusIII 06-13-07, 08:31 PM	Well, preparing spells takes some time. Also, the player playing Oalian is going to be metagaming some spells beforehand - this I think evens the score and adds some realism. Personally, I think this is going to be a fun fight.
Oorlof 06-14-07, 03:08 AM	So...Oalian managed to not get any intel on the invasion, via commune with nature/suspicious border guards/reading in the news that 1000 warforged were waltzing through Aundair with the LoB? I guess they forged will all be in melee range at the start of combat too? And all the other druids in the Reaches have been ninja-killed so noone got the word out? Sounds very realistic. Do let us know how it pans out. My two cents for the Oalian-player: run, hide, go guerilla. Invite some Ashbound or any other druid-circle in the region (well...except maybe the Children of Winter). Even alone, he should stand a very good chance; he's got mobility on his side (via Earth Elemental/tree stride). Simply go where there are going to be no warforged for a day, recuperate, head back, camouflage, waste some forged, rinse, repeat.
Navvik 06-14-07, 09:37 AM	So...Oalian managed to not get any intel on the invasion, via commune with nature/suspicious border guards/reading in the news that 1000 warforged were waltzing through Aundair with the LoB? I guess they forged will all be in melee range at the start of combat too? And all the other druids in the Reaches have been ninja-killed so noone got the word out? Sounds very realistic. Do let us know how it pans out. My two cents for the Oalian-player: run, hide, go guerilla. Invite some Ashbound or any other druid-circle in the region (well...except maybe the Children of Winter). Even alone, he should stand a very good chance; he's got mobility on his side (via Earth Elemental/tree stride). Simply go where there are going to be no warforged for a day, recuperate, head back, camouflage, waste some forged, rinse, repeat. actually what happened was expendable forces showed up beforehand, wanting to be druids, then went apesh*t lets say goblins, if it goes wrong they think goblins did it, then we send in the real soldiers. send in the higher level soldiers first, they fight till they hit about half health, then drop inert, effectively playing dead. it was house ruled they could do that ebcause they dont need ot breathe move or otherwise indidcate that they are living if in fact they are. the town thinks its over, send in the rest of the force, the inert warforged come back and resume fighting with much more support. its not entiraly feasible based on source, though in game-time it could have happened. the eventual arc is that the party contacts the gatekeepers and various other druid sects, and they go guerilla on the forged, pushing them back to the mournlands, then at the last battle so to speak they venture into the mournlands and slaughter all the forged, end of adventure, then things happen, like a flaming chicken god or soemthign that leads to a new set of adventures
Cifer 06-14-07, 11:14 AM	they fight till they hit about half health, then drop inert, effectively playing dead. it was house ruled they could do that ebcause they dont need ot breathe move or otherwise indidcate that they are living if in fact they are. If there's any amount of time between battles, I'd assume people would hack them to pieces (coup de grace, possibly several times) - it's wellknown that warforged don't bleed to death and are only one mass repair light damage away from wreaking havoc again.