Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mfloyd3 07-24-07, 09:11 PM	The thread about fingerprints in Eberron got me thinking about forensic science more generally. Here are some things that could come up in an Inquisitive-oriented campaign: Every piece of wood (presumably including livewood) has a unique grain; this can be used to match separate pieces of wood from the same block in modern forensics. If an inquisitive finds a piece of livewood from a Warforged that had, say, been chipped off in a fight, he can now positively ID the Warforged in question. This is true even if the Warforged has carved around the chip so the piece no longer fits (or if the wood has grown back, which was always my ruling to explain why Warforged don't completely disintegrate after multiple battle/repair sessions). If you take the view that Changelings do not have fingerprints in their native form, creating convincing-looking fingerprints of any kind on shapechanging becomes a challenge. Assuming the Changeling bothers to try, I would rule that an Inquisitive could make a contested roll (Search vs. Disguise?) to look at a set of prints and determine they came from a Changeling. Humans from different ethnic groups have hair that can be distinguished under a microscope (e.g. it is possible to tell if a given hair came from a Caucasian or an East Asian in most cases). A trained inquisitive might be able to do the same thing between races. Fibers or other residue recovered from a crime scene can be used to ID criminals. Eberron offers a new feature: Does Detect Magic indicate the fiber was once part of a magical object (e.g. a Cloak of Protection)? Such a "magic residue" may fade over time, but could be useful in an investigation. If you burn a document sealed with an Arcane Mark, does the ash possess such a magic residue? Prestidigitation offers all sorts of complications. Does using it to clean up a crime scene also wipe fingerprints? Conversely, can an Inquisitive use Prestidigitation to dust for prints, since this is a pretty minor transformation (along the lines of changing the color temporarily)? And an experienced Inquisitive probably knows what to expect in the way of dust, etc., so, he might be able to tell if a scene had been wiped with Prestidigitation. Or might recent use of Prestidigitation leave a magic residue? Magic weapons work better than normal ones, and some are apt to cut a body in ways a normal weapon could not. Can forensic examination of a body tell if the weapon that made it had any special properties? (Vorpal leaps to mind...) When dealing with forensic evidence, remember spell components. Those grains of sand on the clean marble floor might be left over from a sleep spell. Handwriting analysis is a classic. Can you use it on a spell that's been inscribed in a spellshard? Does the arcane mark you need to inscribe the spell also give away the author? And what about scrolls -- Can you do handwriting analysis on magical writing? How about on a Glyph of Warding? (Or Explosive Runes? :-) On something of a tangent, I would consider allowing a skilled alchemist to make "white ink" that is only visible to those with Darkvision, and only when the paper is examined in the absence of any light. ___ Any comments on the above, or any other off the wall inquisitive stunts?
Rechan 07-24-07, 10:17 PM	Fibers or other residue recovered from a crime scene can be used to ID criminals. Eberron offers a new feature: Does Detect Magic indicate the fiber was once part of a magical object (e.g. a Cloak of Protection)? Such a "magic residue" may fade over time, but could be useful in an investigation. Let's assume this possible. If it is, the residue is going to be very minute. To the extent that, while you could determine it being from a magical item, and what kind (this magical cloak was made of Darkweave), you should not be able to discern the type of enchantment on the fiber. For instance, a fiber from a cloak of charisma should not differ from a cloak of resistance. In fact I would expect that any trace of magical fiber would be so faint that you could not tell the School of magic that a magical item was enchanted with (like one can by using Detect Magic for several rounds). Just wanted to put that out there. :) I also think that we should not limit ourselves to mundane forensics - magical forensics is also possible. For instance, someone on the boards here suggested this little gem: A magron root (standard piece of a healer's kit useful for its blood coagulation) can be burned in the ribcage of a skeleton. If the flame burns blue, it is the body of a male, and if it burns orange, it is the body of a female. The intensity and size of the flame should designate how long the corpse has been there. I think a spell or alchemical device that designates 1) if X blood belongs to Y individual, and 2) function as a paternity test (using the latent magic of bloodlines to designate parentage). Any spell that could verify that said bastard child belongs to said noble (ESPECIALLY in a world with Dragonmarks) would be a highly important tool. The problem being you need a large sample (a vial's worth) to compare.
yrogerg 07-24-07, 10:30 PM	Magic weapons work better than normal ones, and some are apt to cut a body in ways a normal weapon could not. Can forensic examination of a body tell if the weapon that made it had any special properties? (Vorpal leaps to mind...) http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0347.html
TiwazTyrsfist 07-25-07, 12:37 AM	I think a spell or alchemical device that designates 1) if X blood belongs to Y individual, and 2) function as a paternity test (using the latent magic of bloodlines to designate parentage). Any spell that could verify that said bastard child belongs to said noble (ESPECIALLY in a world with Dragonmarks) would be a highly important tool. The problem being you need a large sample (a vial's worth) to compare. I like this idea! So, I got one of those one use blood type testers from ThinkGeek. Card has four dots on it, you put a drop of water on each, and a drip of blood, mix them up, wait about 40 seconds, and it tells you your blood type and RH+/-. I'd think, therefore, that it should be fairly simple for an alchemist to whip up some reagents to type blood. I'd also assume that it would be equally possible to type for race. So, you should be able to check blood to see if it's human, elven, orcish, etc. I'd go so far as to say that you could make specific reagents, using a combination of alchemy and brew potion, that test for odder things. One for testing for dragonmark magic. One to test for Arcane magic, another for divine magic. A blood swab that tests for Lycanthropy. (If you fail the craft DC by less than 5 it still works, but shows a false positive on shifter blood)
Shady314 07-25-07, 04:14 AM	I don't think magic leaves "residue." I've never seen a spell or any mention of anyway to tell that magic had recently been used on something or within an area and especially not to date it. And it creates problems. What leaves residue? Anything magical? If so Sharn has magical residue all over the place. Just spells? Prestidigitation sees a lot of use. Any gnome could and does cast it. How long does a residue last? If you want to assume this you're going to have to create a whole system of what leaves residue, on what, for how long, etc. Does a Nystul's Magical Aura leave residue? Or a Dispel Magic? ;) Hope not! Also I don't think magical items like a cloak of resistance should leave fibers behind. I imagine magic items with the way they last permanently forever means they don't fray. This is why a blade stays sharp forever if it's magical. I think a magical item would have to be sundered for you to find any pieces of it. And if you did find fibers from a magical cloak what would it prove? That the victim had contact with someone or thing or maybe JUST a magical cloak at SOME time? If you can't analyze the residue to tell you more than "It was magic" it's a waste of time.
yrogerg 07-25-07, 07:33 AM	I don't think magic leaves "residue." I've never seen a spell or any mention of anyway to tell that magic had recently been used on something or within an area and especially not to date it. Sure they do: Lingering Aura A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power Granted, most of the further elaboration is just that: an expansion on this minor rule. However, it's not entirely inappropriate.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-25-07, 01:44 PM	I'd say that, in a non-magical area, spell casting would leave a lingering aura. Inside a manifester zone, especially in Sharn, the background magic level would over power it. Also, I'd say that in an area like Sharn, Dispelling magic would actually leave a noticable trace to detect magic. In the sense that it would leave a temporary void in the background magic. So, if someone finger of deathed someone, the magic wouldn't show afterwards. However, if you find a body that fell a goodly distance, and your cursory Detect Magic shows an abnormally low magic aura, you would probably realize that someone deliberately dispelled his featherfall charm. Also, yeah, Magic items aren't going to leave behind trace evidence unless they are specifically damaged.
Shady314 07-25-07, 04:27 PM	Sure they do: Granted, most of the further elaboration is just that: an expansion on this minor rule. However, it's not entirely inappropriate. Good point. But Tiwaz actually brought up the point I was trying to make. How do you detect this dim aura in a place with so many wondrous locations like Sharn? In Zilargo with a whole race walking around using prestidigitation? I never imagined a dim aura lasting very long outside of special circumstances. Like the destruction of an artifact or 7-9th level spell being cast. And as even detect magic says dim is even less obvious than faint. I just always imagined that aura would last minutes at most. But I was remembering it the way I always thought of it not the way it's actually written. Very Bad. You're absolutely right, the wording is vague enough that the aura could stick around for a long time. I still don't see any way you could date it though and if you can't tell what was cast OR when it was cast then all you know is magic was cast. Tiwaz came up with a very good example of how that COULD be useful. But a lot of times it won't mean anything. It also means a lot of killers will dispel magic to cover their tracks. Use as little magic as possible. Throw around a lot of prestidigitation to muddle investigators or even use magic cleverly to make investigators follow red herrings. If they're professional criminals that understand the tricks law enforcement will use. Could be good to catch ones that commit crimes of passion though. The idea a manifest zone or similar would overpower this residue is exactly what I was trying to get at. The idea a spellcaster might be able to figure out someone specifically dispelled a featherfall charm is a good one though! Of course what if the killer is halfway competent and follows up their dispel with a prestidigitation? Now there's magical residue again yes?
Kinger 07-25-07, 07:31 PM	Good point. But Tiwaz actually brought up the point I was trying to make. How do you detect this dim aura in a place with so many wondrous locations like Sharn? In Zilargo with a whole race walking around using prestidigitation? I never imagined a dim aura lasting very long outside of special circumstances. Like the destruction of an artifact or 7-9th level spell being cast. And as even detect magic says dim is even less obvious than faint. I just always imagined that aura would last minutes at most. But I was remembering it the way I always thought of it not the way it's actually written. Very Bad. You're absolutely right, the wording is vague enough that the aura could stick around for a long time. I still don't see any way you could date it though and if you can't tell what was cast OR when it was cast then all you know is magic was cast. Tiwaz came up with a very good example of how that COULD be useful. But a lot of times it won't mean anything. It also means a lot of killers will dispel magic to cover their tracks. Use as little magic as possible. Throw around a lot of prestidigitation to muddle investigators or even use magic cleverly to make investigators follow red herrings. If they're professional criminals that understand the tricks law enforcement will use. Could be good to catch ones that commit crimes of passion though. The idea a manifest zone or similar would overpower this residue is exactly what I was trying to get at. The idea a spellcaster might be able to figure out someone specifically dispelled a featherfall charm is a good one though! Of course what if the killer is halfway competent and follows up their dispel with a prestidigitation? Now there's magical residue again yes? Hey, nobody said this forensics thing was easy. :) Keep in mind, also, the ultimate in magical forensic tools: Speak With Dead Inquisitive: "So, Corpsey, who killed you?" Corpse: "Big Franky, my sister's ex." Big Franky: "I'll kill you, you damn snitching corpse!" Inquisitive: "Book 'im, Danno."
Rechan 07-25-07, 07:44 PM	Keep in mind, also, the ultimate in magical forensic tools: Speak With Dead Inquisitive: "So, Corpsey, who killed you?" Corpse: "Big Franky, my sister's ex." Big Franky: "I'll kill you, you damn snitching corpse!" Inquisitive: "Book 'im, Danno." Keep mind the limitations of Speak with Dead: The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any). Answers are usually brief, cryptic, or repetitive. If the creature’s alignment was different from yours, the corpse gets a Will save to resist the spell as if it were alive. A damaged corpse may be able to give partial answers or partially correct answers, but it must at least have a mouth in order to speak at all. I'm sure criminals are aware of this. Removing the head, breaking the jaw, hacking the corpse (to create partial answers), or just plain stabbing him in the back before the victim sees your face are all ways to trump Speak with Dead. Or if you're really cruel, use a potion of Disguise Self and look like someone else. ;) SwD, like any bit of evidence, is nothing more than a clue, and one that has a level of error involved.
Kinger 07-25-07, 07:46 PM	Keep mind the limitations of Speak with Dead: I'm sure criminals are aware of this. Removing the head, breaking the jaw, hacking the corpse (to create partial answers), or just plain stabbing him in the back before the victim sees your face are all ways to trump Speak with Dead. Or if you're really cruel, use a potion of Disguise Self and look like someone else. ;) SwD, like any bit of evidence, is nothing more than a clue, and one that has a level of error involved. Well of course. As I said, nobody said this forensics thing is easy. :)
Need_A_Life 07-26-07, 07:49 AM	SwD are most easily foiled by Warforged ("a warforged, with one of them whatchamacallit on his forehead") and Changelings ("It was my sisters ex!"). Also, for reference, detect magic states the amount of time an aura lingers: Level 0-3: 1d6 rounds. Level 4-6: 1d6 minutes. Level 7-9: 1d6*10 minutes. Level 10+: 1d6 days. How many crimes serious enough to warrant the use of level 7-9 spells are discovered less than an hour after they're committed? The victim of a disintegrate spell will likely not be found within 6 minutes, much less one minute. How many of them has an inquisitive casting Detect magic within 36 seconds of the criminal using prestidigation to wipe the scene clean? --- Any time an inquisitive could use this, there'd be no need for an investigation because the murderer would be the readily visible.
Shady314 07-26-07, 09:15 AM	Also, for reference, detect magic states the amount of time an aura lingers: Level 0-3: 1d6 rounds. Level 4-6: 1d6 minutes. w00t! I knew there was a reason I thought it was only minutes. I even said outside of artifacts and 7-9th level spells. And now I realize I am incredibly lazy for not checking the SRD. Oh well. Also "Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras." Looks like they thought of everything.
OctaviusIII 07-26-07, 10:29 AM	Yeah, but although the magical aura is gone, there are probably physical signs that hint at what sort of spell it was (especially something like disintegrate.)
Lanodantheon 07-31-07, 09:45 PM	I like the idea of Forensics playing a larger part in the world of Eberron. I have always seen Wizards as Arcane Scientists and I like to think that wizards have books and books of stuff on everything. I like to think that Wizards catalog everything in order to better cast spells. The one thing about Forensics is that in Eberron it is still relatively new. When I think about Inquisitives I imagine poor Constable Ichabod Crane from Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow standing before the judge. The only difference between Inquisitives and Ichabod is that Inquistives have magic and the Dragonmarked Houses behind them. I imagine that forensics are seenas weird among the uneducated in Eberron. Kind of an ironic thought, really. "I believe in dragons the size of castles, but I cannot belive in little tiny ridges on my fingers. Ridiculous!" MY other concern about fingerprints in Eberron is the one tool missing from every description I've seen: The Microscope. I have yet to find a description of anything resembling a microscope in any part of any Eberron materials. Without one, fingerprints are worth less than the powders you dust for them with. Every piece of wood (presumably including livewood) has a unique grain; this can be used to match separate pieces of wood from the same block in modern forensics. If an inquisitive finds a piece of livewood from a Warforged that had, say, been chipped off in a fight, he can now positively ID the Warforged in question. This is true even if the Warforged has carved around the chip so the piece no longer fits (or if the wood has grown back, which was always my ruling to explain why Warforged don't completely disintegrate after multiple battle/repair sessions). Problem: Hellcow himself describes Warforged materials in one of his Dragonshards. They are crafted using modified Fabricate Spells, so anything that comes off of a Warforged disappears in an instant. That's why you can't make Warforged Hide armors and meld their Adamantine Bodies down for Cheap Swords. Nice idea, but the Hellcow's head you off at the pass and he hates that cliche. Presigidigtation to me is the ultimate crime scene cleanup tool. I love the idea of reisidual magical auras. But I think you'd need a more potent spell than detect magic to see them. My vote is for Arcane Sight. The cleanup would leave an aura behind and it would cover up what was there before. On magic Weapons: I personally think that Magic weapons are like Weapon models in 3D Animation programs. That is, Magic weapons are stronger, tougher and sharper than normally weapons. The wounds they leave would be too straight, too perfect to be real. I think any inquisitive worth his salt would be able to pick a magic sword wound from a mile away. On the subject of White ink for Darkvision: I could see other inks, florescent inks that can only be read by those with lowlight vision like say the elves with their history of subterfuge.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-31-07, 11:33 PM	Simple answer one: At the time that the Sherlock Holmes stories take place, they are just discovering fingerprinting. Since the magic 'technology' level of Eberron is equal to or greater than the technology level of Victorian England, it is safe to assume that anything they had, is duplicated (probably magically) in Eberron. Maginifying lenses are listed in an equipment section somewhere, so they have them. Surely the zilargo gnomes or students at morgrave have come up with a system of multiple lenses to get a microscope effect. Second Easy Answer: Trueseeing. Trueseeing should allow you too look at two fingerprints, and instantly tell if they are the same.
Shady314 08-01-07, 04:15 AM	Simple answer one: At the time that the Sherlock Holmes stories take place, they are just discovering fingerprinting. Since the magic 'technology' level of Eberron is equal to or greater than the technology level of Victorian England, :confused: it is safe to assume that anything they had, is duplicated (probably magically) in Eberron. Maginifying lenses are listed in an equipment section somewhere, so they have them. Surely the zilargo gnomes or students at morgrave have come up with a system of multiple lenses to get a microscope effect. It's not safe to assume that. Just because you have one thing doesn;t automatically mean someone somewhere has put together the next step. We had spyglasses for a long time before we got telescopes and then finally microscopes. China had gunpowder for centuries. Why didn't they develop rifles first? Second Easy Answer: Trueseeing. Trueseeing should allow you too look at two fingerprints, and instantly tell if they are the same. There's nothing about Trueseeing that let's you do that. And there's nothing "EASY" about a 6th level spell mostly available through Greater Marked Medani. PS. There's nothing hard to believe about fingerprints themselves. You can see the ridges on your finger. If you ever got your hand dirty and touched anything you see it then too. The breakthroughs were discovering how to lift the fingerprints left by just the oil on your hand, realizing they were unique enough to tell people apart, and figuring out how to compare them to tell them apart.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-01-07, 10:59 AM	PS. There's nothing hard to believe about fingerprints themselves. You can see the ridges on your finger. If you ever got your hand dirty and touched anything you see it then too. The breakthroughs were discovering how to lift the fingerprints left by just the oil on your hand, realizing they were unique enough to tell people apart, and figuring out how to compare them to tell them apart. The point I was trying to make was that Victorian/Edwardian era police in the real world had figured out that peoples fingerprints were different, and how to compare them to determine if a print found on an object was the same as a reference sample. Lets compare Victorian Technology to Eberron Magic Steam Engine -- Lightning Rail Steam Ships -- Elemental Galleons Telegraph -- Speaking Stones Gas Lamps -- Everbright Lanterns And that's just off the top of my head. The point is, Everything we could do with technology at that point, Eberron setting can do with magic. They had microscopes at that point. Logical assumption, someone in Eberron (probably several someones) has figured out how to either make a basic multi-lense microscope, or duplicate the effect with a spell. If you can cast spells that let you see in zero light environments, let you see through magic illusions, it shouldn't be too hard to devise a spell that lets you see tiny detail at a 100x 1000x or even 10,000x normal detail size. I was however, probably off on the trueseeing thing. Since trueseeing allows you to see the true nature of things, seeing through all forms of disguise, magic, etc., I was thinking that by looking at two fingerprints you could see whether their true nature was the same, I.E. they were the same print.
OctaviusIII 08-01-07, 03:42 PM	You're not looking at a finger, though, you're looking at deposited oils and dirt. With trueseeing, you could make sure that those are, indeed, deposited oils and dirt.
Ogiwan 08-03-07, 02:14 PM	What leaves residue? Anything magical? If so Sharn has magical residue all over the place. Actual game expierence: Warlock: "I cast Detect Magic!" Me: "You're in Sharn." Warlock: "Right."
Rechan 08-03-07, 02:23 PM	Actual game expierence: Warlock: "I cast Detect Magic!" Me: "You're in Sharn." Warlock: "Right." For the ease of convenience I handwave that. Though I will make a note to toy with my party's warlock in that fashion.
Shady314 08-03-07, 09:42 PM	Actual game expierence: Warlock: "I cast Detect Magic!" Me: "You're in Sharn." Warlock: "Right." :rofl: And I'm not just saying that. I got a very good laugh out of that. Thanks. Still that would make detect magic rather limited if it couldn't be used at all in the city. I think you should be able to distinguish between an aura of a spell and the aura of the city if you're there fast enough after it's casting. At least inside. Also it should obviously work fine on magical items even in Sharn.
Rechan 08-03-07, 10:02 PM	A thought occurred to me. The argument against Detect Magic in Sharn is that Sharn is infused with Syrania's power to keep afloat. But why would that plane be any more magical, fundamentally, than the Material plane? What I'm saying is, if you went to Syrania and cast "Detect Magic", you would see about as much latent magic as you would if you cast it in the countryside in Eberron. Because the energy that composes those planes would be similar, at least at its core. The magic that makes things fly in Syrania is probably the same power that makes things made of Fire in Fernia, and in the blades of grass in Eberron. Who's to say that a cubic foot of Syranian air has any more latent magic in it than a cubic foot of Eberronian dirt? Magic can be intrinsic to the nature of both; it may be the magic of Eberron that makes plants grow, for all one wants to hypothesize. So, why would a manifest zone to Syrania be any heavier, magically speaking? If anything, the towers are held up in Sharn because the plane messes with Eberron's default setting. To put it another way, Sharn uses Syrania's laws of Physics, not Eberron's. I wouldn't say it's an excess of MAGIC, just planar influence. And the buildings are engineered to operate under this notion. Perhaps at the bases of towers, there's some sort of "Levitation Stone", but I wouldn't say that the very air is teaming with any more magic than one would find in Eberron. Now, perhaps the concentration of Everbright lanterns and skycoaches and other dinky magical effects might have built up a general atmosphere of magic richness. But this is just a rambly thought and I don't want to derail the thread with this. I just was amused by the notion that Sharn would be so saturated by Detect Magic that it would be useless there.
Shady314 08-04-07, 12:00 AM	The manifest zone doesn't support Sharn. It just extends all the levitation magic going on there in such a way to make it permanent. So it's all the magic going on in Sharn that makes it hard. The permanent featherfall effects on some bridges, the platforms of Tenser's floating disk, airships, Skybridge and all the other airborne areas, skycoaches, speaking stones, gnomes casting prestidigitation etc. Anyways even detect magic itself says "magical locations" and if a manifest zone isn't a magical location what is? A manifest zone is an area of the world has been infused with the nature of another plane and exhibits properties out of sync with the Prime Material Plane. Sounds magical. Certainly it at least seems "eldritch" if not arcane magic per se.
Rechan 08-04-07, 01:40 AM	The manifest zone doesn't support Sharn. It just extends all the levitation magic going on there in such a way to make it permanent. So it's all the magic going on in Sharn that makes it hard. The permanent featherfall effects on some bridges, the platforms of Tenser's floating disk, airships, Skybridge and all the other airborne areas, skycoaches, speaking stones, gnomes casting prestidigitation etc. Even so, that shouldn't be too much of a problem if you're in doors, in an alley, or along a bridge. Really, what you described is just zones of magic. IF magic were light, you'd be standing in NYC, trying to find someone waving a pen light at night. It can be done, you just can't do it if they're standing under a street light or in Times Square, whathaveyou. Anyways even detect magic itself says "magical locations" and if a manifest zone isn't a magical location what is? A manifest zone is an area of the world has been infused with the nature of another plane and exhibits properties out of sync with the Prime Material Plane. Sounds magical. Certainly it at least seems "eldritch" if not arcane magic per se. And I'm saying that such a site could be no less magical than the other, theoretically. The biggest problem would be, IMHO, that limited duration of auras. Like it was pointed out above, an Inquisitive isn't going to be on site in a couple of rounds. It's more than likely going to be hours.
yrogerg 08-04-07, 09:43 AM	The biggest problem would be, IMHO, that limited duration of auras. Like it was pointed out above, an Inquisitive isn't going to be on site in a couple of rounds. It's more than likely going to be hours. Well, what about a specialized spell/magic item specifically for reading aura strength over a longer span of time? Basically, an Arcane version of Object Reading?
Rechan 08-04-07, 10:18 AM	Well, what about a specialized spell/magic item specifically for reading aura strength over a longer span of time? Basically, an Arcane version of Object Reading? Well if we're going to make specialty items, many effects are possible. :) Sure. I would actually handle it like a Knowledge Arcana (or possibly Spellcraft) check, with the DC modified by how many hours have passed. The interesting thing here is that the higher the spell level, the lower the DC, because the stronger the spell is the more significant the aura is going to be. Though I would expect that such a spell or item would also require you to feng shui or ground out the area's ambient magic so that it doesn't interfere with the remnants of the spell. But such would be necessary only in areas of high magic carry-over. Just placing some proper glyphs to re-direct the latent energies around the area you want could give you a reduced area of magical spill over, letting you look. This wouldn't be a spell so much as someone with Spellcraft training could do.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-04-07, 04:40 PM	A thought occurred to me. The argument against Detect Magic in Sharn is that Sharn is infused with Syrania's power to keep afloat. But why would that plane be any more magical, fundamentally, than the Material plane? What I'm saying is, if you went to Syrania and cast "Detect Magic", you would see about as much latent magic as you would if you cast it in the countryside in Eberron. Because the energy that composes those planes would be similar, at least at its core. The magic that makes things fly in Syrania is probably the same power that makes things made of Fire in Fernia, and in the blades of grass in Eberron. Who's to say that a cubic foot of Syranian air has any more latent magic in it than a cubic foot of Eberronian dirt? Magic can be intrinsic to the nature of both; it may be the magic of Eberron that makes plants grow, for all one wants to hypothesize. So, why would a manifest zone to Syrania be any heavier, magically speaking? If anything, the towers are held up in Sharn because the plane messes with Eberron's default setting. To put it another way, Sharn uses Syrania's laws of Physics, not Eberron's. I wouldn't say it's an excess of MAGIC, just planar influence. And the buildings are engineered to operate under this notion. Perhaps at the bases of towers, there's some sort of "Levitation Stone", but I wouldn't say that the very air is teaming with any more magic than one would find in Eberron. Now, perhaps the concentration of Everbright lanterns and skycoaches and other dinky magical effects might have built up a general atmosphere of magic richness. But this is just a rambly thought and I don't want to derail the thread with this. I just was amused by the notion that Sharn would be so saturated by Detect Magic that it would be useless there. From my oint of view, it wasn't so much the manifest zone that was the problem with using Detect Magic in Sharn. It's that EVERYTHING is steeped in magic. At both ends of the street there's a permanent Tensor's Floating Disc that functions as an elevator. All along the street, there are everbright lanterns. And most importantly, Every tower is ringed by a couple dozen flying buttresses per floor. We're talking, 24 level 12 continual magic effects, at least, per floor of each tower around you. Detect magic in Sharn is a bit like turning on a gieger-counter in the reactor core of a nuclear power plant.
ZappoHisbane 08-04-07, 04:44 PM	Though I would expect that such a spell or item would also require you to feng shui or ground out the area's ambient magic so that it doesn't interfere with the remnants of the spell. But such would be necessary only in areas of high magic carry-over. Just placing some proper glyphs to re-direct the latent energies around the area you want could give you a reduced area of magical spill over, letting you look. This wouldn't be a spell so much as someone with Spellcraft training could do. The glyphs have to be in black, inscribed repeatedly on a long yellow ribbon that is placed around the scene in question. :D