Survival in the Mournland [Archive] - Wizards Community

Survival in the Mournland [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Subtle Knife
02-16-07, 10:20 AM I have a specific question regarding survival in the Mournland - do Psionic methods of healing operate normally, or are they subject to the same inhibitions as Conjuration (healing) spells? The reason I ask is that I'm contemplating a Riedran invasion of Khorvaire, and was thinking that they might try and establish an initial foothold in the Mournland, given it's natural defensive merits, if their natural inclination towards psionics provide them with a natural advantage.

SK
snakebliskan
02-16-07, 01:20 PM now that depends i would think on weather or not magic can effect psionics or the other way around...now in my world magic and psionics do effect each other... ie a dispell magic will work on psionic abilities.... so i also ruled that in the mornland psionics are effected the same.
tallric_kruush
02-16-07, 01:42 PM ...And of course there is the other side of the "Magic/Psionics Transparency" issue. Some rule that magic=psionics as to mechanics, as Snakebliskin does.

Others rule that the two are completely independent, in which case Psionics would/could function in the Mournland.

A third way of doing it is "half and half". For instance, Power Resistance 10 would grant Spell Resistance 5, and vice-versa. In that case, you start running into a bit of a sticky wicket when it comes to the Mournland.

I'd recommend going with either a full transparency where magic=psionics, or total independence where the two are of completely different natures. If you have the XPH, I believe there's a lengthy section discussing this very issue.
Yakman
02-16-07, 02:34 PM I have a specific question regarding survival in the Mournland - do Psionic methods of healing operate normally, or are they subject to the same inhibitions as Conjuration (healing) spells? The reason I ask is that I'm contemplating a Riedran invasion of Khorvaire, and was thinking that they might try and establish an initial foothold in the Mournland, given it's natural defensive merits, if their natural inclination towards psionics provide them with a natural advantage.

SK
Now that would be interesting...

I'd like to see the Quori get taken to whoop school by the Lord of Blades.
Assariel
02-16-07, 03:26 PM The expanded psionics handbook says that both are treated equally, but it gives also variant rules, which should help to differentiate them. But I think it might be quite hard to balance it (which is also mentioned in this section).

So, regarding the standard rules (as mentioned by snakebliskan) dispel magic works on psionics, therefore they should suffer the same inhibitions.
If you like to work with the variant rule, you could give the psionics the, in my opinion, huge advantage in the mournland.
Melvin the Mediocre
02-16-07, 03:31 PM I have never delved to deeply into the mournland or psionics, so I could be completely wrong here. However I reacall that healing limitations only apply to natural healing and conjuration spells. Psionics are not considered conjuration so they should work just fine.
Dalesman
02-16-07, 04:28 PM That could also explain why the first psiforged reportedly came from inside the Mournland - it makes that little bit of information seem less 'random'.
UnderworldLord
02-16-07, 07:42 PM Now that someone's mentioned all the connecting pieces... what if the LoB is working for the Quori? We know they don't need healing, esp juggies, and we know that psionics may work in the mournland. And its been conisdered that the wf were originally invented by the giants or the Quori. So even if they don't dream directly, psiforged, or perhaps special docents like the one in DD were made by modern quori. Also, consider the warforged artificer and his juggernaught buddies in the Tales of the Last War story. Conspiratorical connection anyone?
DyloniusFunk
02-16-07, 09:19 PM According to the Cyre/Mournland chapter of Five Nations, psionic healing operates normally within the Mournland. I don't have my books handy so i can't quote it but i was just reading through that section the other day and remember that part sticking out. I don't recall if the ECS says anything contradictory but i would go with the 5N if it dosen't
Subtle Knife
02-16-07, 09:37 PM My thoughts regarding the Quori - Warforged connection - the Quori in the previous incarnation of Dal Quor created the Warforged as potential immortal hosts on the Material Plane, which was to be accomplished using Docents; similar to the Inspired, the Warforged were meant to be inhabited by a Quori spirit that was instilled into the Docent. The initial attempts during the war with the Giants failed, producing Docents with weakened spirits unable to occupy the Warforged, rather creating an odd passive symbiosis as seen with most Docents discovered.

Todays' darker Quori incarnations have had millenia to examine this problem, and have created a method of instilling a more powerful spirit into a Docent, which is capable of forcibly possessing the Warforged into which it is installed. The Riedrans are more capable of surviving the harsh environment of the Mournland due to the large number of psionic individuals capable of providing healing, transportation, etc. In an attempt to gain a strong foothold in Khorvaire, the Inspired send operatives covertly into the Mournland in order to establish a base of operations, to establish an active psionic teleportation circle for mobilizing their forces to this base of operations, and to establish diplomatic negotiations with the Lord of Blades and his followers, using large numbers of Docents as incentive. Not realizing the nature of these, the Lord of Blades and followers are rapidly coopted into "service" by the Riedrans, providing a rapid swell in troops also readily capable of Mournland survival.

Riedra now has a well-fortified base of operations and large numbers of fanatically loyal and naturally fortified forces within the heart of Khorvaire, from which they can strike into almost any country and then fade into the Mists.

Unless the characters can put a halt on these plans....

SK
snakebliskan
02-19-07, 08:16 PM According to the Cyre/Mournland chapter of Five Nations, psionic healing operates normally within the Mournland. I don't have my books handy so i can't quote it but i was just reading through that section the other day and remember that part sticking out. I don't recall if the ECS says anything contradictory but i would go with the 5N if it dosen't

im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment!
Cifer
02-19-07, 09:32 PM I'd like to see the Quori get taken to whoop school by the Lord of Blades.
Funnily, the LoBster might be the best one for it - just about everyone of its vassals above a certain levels will be immune to mind-influencing abilities...
It would still have the problem of being massively out-leveled and outnumbered, though.

RAW, I'd go with Melvin: Psionics has no conjuration school and thus is not effected by effects that target precisely this school. While the psychometabolism is a relatively close fit, it also is so weak with regards to healing (*) that it doesn't stand out from the other possibilities one has got for healing in the Mournland.

(*) The two important powers would be Body adjustment and Empathic transfer. The first one takes 5 power points for Psions for 1D12 hp, +2 for every further D12 and heals yourself only. Empathic transfer heals allies, but transfers half their damage to you - 3 power points for 2D10, +1 for every further 2D10.
Yakman
02-20-07, 01:15 PM Funnily, the LoBster might be the best one for it - just about everyone of its vassals above a certain levels will be immune to mind-influencing abilities...
It would still have the problem of being massively out-leveled and outnumbered, though.
it's not like all of Riedra is going to be landing in the Mournland. Moreover, it's a VERY different environment--mists, nightmares, living spells, monsters, etc.. The Riedrans are going to be panicky and unsure of themselves. The Lord of Blades and his people on the other hand, are in their natural environment, are veteran fighters, and are utterly without mercy. they could tear a higher level Riedran force apart--unless the Riedrans had some really big guns along.
Cifer
02-20-07, 01:38 PM it's not like all of Riedra is going to be landing in the Mournland. Moreover, it's a VERY different environment--mists, nightmares, living spells, monsters, etc..
Better rethink at least those two. Further, it has always been canon that the main limiting factor of the LoBster is that he only has comparably few followers, most definitely not on par with an army of one of the five nations and much less on par with the Riedrans.

are in their natural environment,
No check for Riedra
are veteran fighters
Check for Riedra, if they want to bring some more seasoned troops in.
, and are utterly without mercy.
Most definitely check for Riedra.

they could tear a higher level Riedran force apart--unless the Riedrans had some really big guns along.
The difference is that the Riedrans have big guns. However, the whole thing seems to devolve into a Superman vs. Spiderman, so I'm unsure whether continuing with it helps anyone.
Yakman
02-20-07, 01:40 PM Party pooper.

I'm just thinking it would be an interesting place to set an adventure in. The Riedrans have landed, the PCs have to go into the Riedran camp for (insert reason here), and the Lord of Blades has decided to show them how things are done in the New World. Crazed monstrosities running amok, Riedrans fighting back to back against aberrations, warforged fighters appearing out of the mist and then fading away, escaping through enemy lines, the screams from the burning camp (and more dramatically, burning ships) echoing into the night...

Certainly quite a backdrop for a quest.

And also the beginning of the rise of the Lord of Blades... his power has been demonstrated against mighty Riedra...
Renus
03-10-07, 07:56 AM Originally Posted By snakebliskan
im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment!

Page 82, first paragraph, last sentence:

Psionic powers also work within the mists, as do spells and effects that grant temporary hit points, such as aid and heroes’ feast.

Just thought I'd toss this out there. It answers the original question fairly well, I think. Hope this helps.
DyloniusFunk
03-11-07, 12:45 PM im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment!

Since I now have my 5N book handy....

Psionic powers also work within the mists, as do spells and effects that grant temporary hit points, such as aid and hero's feast.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Subtle Knife 02-16-07, 10:20 AM	I have a specific question regarding survival in the Mournland - do Psionic methods of healing operate normally, or are they subject to the same inhibitions as Conjuration (healing) spells? The reason I ask is that I'm contemplating a Riedran invasion of Khorvaire, and was thinking that they might try and establish an initial foothold in the Mournland, given it's natural defensive merits, if their natural inclination towards psionics provide them with a natural advantage. SK
snakebliskan 02-16-07, 01:20 PM	now that depends i would think on weather or not magic can effect psionics or the other way around...now in my world magic and psionics do effect each other... ie a dispell magic will work on psionic abilities.... so i also ruled that in the mornland psionics are effected the same.
tallric_kruush 02-16-07, 01:42 PM	...And of course there is the other side of the "Magic/Psionics Transparency" issue. Some rule that magic=psionics as to mechanics, as Snakebliskin does. Others rule that the two are completely independent, in which case Psionics would/could function in the Mournland. A third way of doing it is "half and half". For instance, Power Resistance 10 would grant Spell Resistance 5, and vice-versa. In that case, you start running into a bit of a sticky wicket when it comes to the Mournland. I'd recommend going with either a full transparency where magic=psionics, or total independence where the two are of completely different natures. If you have the XPH, I believe there's a lengthy section discussing this very issue.
Yakman 02-16-07, 02:34 PM	I have a specific question regarding survival in the Mournland - do Psionic methods of healing operate normally, or are they subject to the same inhibitions as Conjuration (healing) spells? The reason I ask is that I'm contemplating a Riedran invasion of Khorvaire, and was thinking that they might try and establish an initial foothold in the Mournland, given it's natural defensive merits, if their natural inclination towards psionics provide them with a natural advantage. SK Now that would be interesting... I'd like to see the Quori get taken to whoop school by the Lord of Blades.
Assariel 02-16-07, 03:26 PM	The expanded psionics handbook says that both are treated equally, but it gives also variant rules, which should help to differentiate them. But I think it might be quite hard to balance it (which is also mentioned in this section). So, regarding the standard rules (as mentioned by snakebliskan) dispel magic works on psionics, therefore they should suffer the same inhibitions. If you like to work with the variant rule, you could give the psionics the, in my opinion, huge advantage in the mournland.
Melvin the Mediocre 02-16-07, 03:31 PM	I have never delved to deeply into the mournland or psionics, so I could be completely wrong here. However I reacall that healing limitations only apply to natural healing and conjuration spells. Psionics are not considered conjuration so they should work just fine.
Dalesman 02-16-07, 04:28 PM	That could also explain why the first psiforged reportedly came from inside the Mournland - it makes that little bit of information seem less 'random'.
UnderworldLord 02-16-07, 07:42 PM	Now that someone's mentioned all the connecting pieces... what if the LoB is working for the Quori? We know they don't need healing, esp juggies, and we know that psionics may work in the mournland. And its been conisdered that the wf were originally invented by the giants or the Quori. So even if they don't dream directly, psiforged, or perhaps special docents like the one in DD were made by modern quori. Also, consider the warforged artificer and his juggernaught buddies in the Tales of the Last War story. Conspiratorical connection anyone?
DyloniusFunk 02-16-07, 09:19 PM	According to the Cyre/Mournland chapter of Five Nations, psionic healing operates normally within the Mournland. I don't have my books handy so i can't quote it but i was just reading through that section the other day and remember that part sticking out. I don't recall if the ECS says anything contradictory but i would go with the 5N if it dosen't
Subtle Knife 02-16-07, 09:37 PM	My thoughts regarding the Quori - Warforged connection - the Quori in the previous incarnation of Dal Quor created the Warforged as potential immortal hosts on the Material Plane, which was to be accomplished using Docents; similar to the Inspired, the Warforged were meant to be inhabited by a Quori spirit that was instilled into the Docent. The initial attempts during the war with the Giants failed, producing Docents with weakened spirits unable to occupy the Warforged, rather creating an odd passive symbiosis as seen with most Docents discovered. Todays' darker Quori incarnations have had millenia to examine this problem, and have created a method of instilling a more powerful spirit into a Docent, which is capable of forcibly possessing the Warforged into which it is installed. The Riedrans are more capable of surviving the harsh environment of the Mournland due to the large number of psionic individuals capable of providing healing, transportation, etc. In an attempt to gain a strong foothold in Khorvaire, the Inspired send operatives covertly into the Mournland in order to establish a base of operations, to establish an active psionic teleportation circle for mobilizing their forces to this base of operations, and to establish diplomatic negotiations with the Lord of Blades and his followers, using large numbers of Docents as incentive. Not realizing the nature of these, the Lord of Blades and followers are rapidly coopted into "service" by the Riedrans, providing a rapid swell in troops also readily capable of Mournland survival. Riedra now has a well-fortified base of operations and large numbers of fanatically loyal and naturally fortified forces within the heart of Khorvaire, from which they can strike into almost any country and then fade into the Mists. Unless the characters can put a halt on these plans.... SK
snakebliskan 02-19-07, 08:16 PM	According to the Cyre/Mournland chapter of Five Nations, psionic healing operates normally within the Mournland. I don't have my books handy so i can't quote it but i was just reading through that section the other day and remember that part sticking out. I don't recall if the ECS says anything contradictory but i would go with the 5N if it dosen't im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment!
Cifer 02-19-07, 09:32 PM	I'd like to see the Quori get taken to whoop school by the Lord of Blades. Funnily, the LoBster might be the best one for it - just about everyone of its vassals above a certain levels will be immune to mind-influencing abilities... It would still have the problem of being massively out-leveled and outnumbered, though. RAW, I'd go with Melvin: Psionics has no conjuration school and thus is not effected by effects that target precisely this school. While the psychometabolism is a relatively close fit, it also is so weak with regards to healing () that it doesn't stand out from the other possibilities one has got for healing in the Mournland. () The two important powers would be Body adjustment and Empathic transfer. The first one takes 5 power points for Psions for 1D12 hp, +2 for every further D12 and heals yourself only. Empathic transfer heals allies, but transfers half their damage to you - 3 power points for 2D10, +1 for every further 2D10.
Yakman 02-20-07, 01:15 PM	Funnily, the LoBster might be the best one for it - just about everyone of its vassals above a certain levels will be immune to mind-influencing abilities... It would still have the problem of being massively out-leveled and outnumbered, though. it's not like all of Riedra is going to be landing in the Mournland. Moreover, it's a VERY different environment--mists, nightmares, living spells, monsters, etc.. The Riedrans are going to be panicky and unsure of themselves. The Lord of Blades and his people on the other hand, are in their natural environment, are veteran fighters, and are utterly without mercy. they could tear a higher level Riedran force apart--unless the Riedrans had some really big guns along.
Cifer 02-20-07, 01:38 PM	it's not like all of Riedra is going to be landing in the Mournland. Moreover, it's a VERY different environment--mists, nightmares, living spells, monsters, etc.. Better rethink at least those two. Further, it has always been canon that the main limiting factor of the LoBster is that he only has comparably few followers, most definitely not on par with an army of one of the five nations and much less on par with the Riedrans. are in their natural environment, No check for Riedra are veteran fighters Check for Riedra, if they want to bring some more seasoned troops in. , and are utterly without mercy. Most definitely check for Riedra. they could tear a higher level Riedran force apart--unless the Riedrans had some really big guns along. The difference is that the Riedrans have big guns. However, the whole thing seems to devolve into a Superman vs. Spiderman, so I'm unsure whether continuing with it helps anyone.
Yakman 02-20-07, 01:40 PM	Party pooper. I'm just thinking it would be an interesting place to set an adventure in. The Riedrans have landed, the PCs have to go into the Riedran camp for (insert reason here), and the Lord of Blades has decided to show them how things are done in the New World. Crazed monstrosities running amok, Riedrans fighting back to back against aberrations, warforged fighters appearing out of the mist and then fading away, escaping through enemy lines, the screams from the burning camp (and more dramatically, burning ships) echoing into the night... Certainly quite a backdrop for a quest. And also the beginning of the rise of the Lord of Blades... his power has been demonstrated against mighty Riedra...
Renus 03-10-07, 07:56 AM	Originally Posted By snakebliskan im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment! Page 82, first paragraph, last sentence: Psionic powers also work within the mists, as do spells and effects that grant temporary hit points, such as aid and heroes’ feast. Just thought I'd toss this out there. It answers the original question fairly well, I think. Hope this helps.
DyloniusFunk 03-11-07, 12:45 PM	im looking at the 5 nations book now and so far I have found no reference to psionics anywhere. so unfortunutly i would keep to my first statment! Since I now have my 5N book handy.... Psionic powers also work within the mists, as do spells and effects that grant temporary hit points, such as aid and hero's feast.