Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rolzup 02-13-07, 04:10 PM	This is what I'm thinking: There's a peninsula of Cyre that juts out into Kraken Bay. And on the map that I have in front of me, the borders of the Mournland actually end a few miles away from the tip of that peninsula. Obviously a mistake, a slip of the digital "pen", but still and all, I don’t mind violating Canon. So I'm putting a city there. Not a big one. It started life as a coastal fortress, became a naval yard during the War, and is now a fortified city of respectable size. And, for whatever reason, it's the last living Cyran city. The mists just...stopped, a few miles from the city gates. No one knows why, but one man was smart enough, quick enough, and convincing enough to claim responsibility...and to use the chaos and fear caused by the Day of Mourning to get himself declared the Emperor of Cyre. No one outside the city accepts his authority, and even within the city there's as many people who refer to him only as "The Pretender" as there are who call him "Emperor." But he's thrown the city gates open to the refugees of Cyre, and more than a few have accepted his offer of sanctuary. Far more, in fact, than the city can possibly handle. The streets are overcrowded, crime is rampant, and there's a shantytown rapidly growing outside the city walls. It's not a pleasant place to live, but for the ambitious it's a place of great opportunity. The "Free Companies", licensed by the Emperor, have been launching expeditions into the Mournlands to recover the "heritage of lost Cyre". Grave robbing, in other words. But very lucrative grave robbing, at least for those who survive. I need to name this place, but that can wait until I come up with something good. Renaming it to New Metrol seems like the sort of thing that the Pretender would do, but it lacks a certain...something. But anyway, I'm seeing this place as just the sort of wretched hive of scum and villany that PCs would thrive in. Lots of oppotunities, and if the PCs all have a tie to Cyre, I've got a good reason for them to start out there. But I wanted to get some input on how the various nations and organizations would react to this city. Prince Oargev, naturally, would be furious with the situation, and would want the Pretender very, very dead. And I can't imagine that any of the various governments would be willing to recognize this single city as being Cyre in any meaningful way. Diplomatic ties, therefore, would likely be non-existant. Would there be anyone willing to regnize the Pretender's authority, though? Who, and why? Any thoughts?
goblin_pride 02-13-07, 04:37 PM	I need to name this place, but that can wait until I come up with something good. Renaming it to New Metrol seems like the sort of thing that the Pretender would do, but it lacks a certain...something. But anyway, I'm seeing this place as just the sort of wretched hive of scum and villany that PCs would thrive in. Lots of oppotunities, and if the PCs all have a tie to Cyre, I've got a good reason for them to start out there. Call it Port Royal, Crownport or Kingsport, that way it has that feeling like it was once a proud city, home to the bulk of the king of Cyre's navy. Give it a name that evokes images of the dignity of the royal navy while it lives from graverobbing and I would suspect a sizable amount of piracy.
goblin_pride 02-13-07, 04:56 PM	The mists just...stopped, a few miles from the city gates. That's going to cause problems. If it's a city of any size, you're going to see alot of starving people living in the city. Sure they can fish, but people can't live off of just fish. So you're going to have to establish trade routes with other ports nearby or face widespread famine in the city. The reason I say trade routes is because the city's two closest neighbors are Darguun and Valenar. If you think either neighbor would tolerate any sort of regular pillaging of their coastal farms, you've lost your mind. The city would literally have to plunder the Mournlands and raid shipping in the open seas to steal enough to afford the prices they would have to pay in foreign ports to buy the food they need to support themselves in the city.The city's defenses would be amazing, the sea on three sides and the dead-gray mists on the other, but laying siege would simply mean cutting off the tradeships that keep them fed. What you end up with is a port that accepts merchants flying any flag as long as they have goods to trade. Food, goods that can't be made in the city and information would be traded for material pillaged in the mournlands, treasure captured in piracy, prisoners and services (Interpret that as you will).
Ellorin 02-14-07, 11:06 AM	The reason I say trade routes is because the city's two closest neighbors are Darguun and Valenar. If you think either neighbor would tolerate any sort of regular pillaging of their coastal farms, you've lost your mind. I shall play the devil's advocate here and question Darguun's ability to counterattack. At the moment at least. With bands such as the Kraal lords acting more or less freely in the nearby area it seems that the goblinoid nation lacks the required naval power,stability and, possibly, the numbers in the concerning area to assault the pirates' base. Of course, that might change in a few years...but these Cyrans might b too desperate to consider that. Otherwise, all were very good ideas.
UnderworldLord 02-14-07, 11:29 AM	Lets not forget something else: Steel Krakens. Cyre made them during the war, so its not completely unfeasible that at least one of them could be controlled by them, not to mention the 'now wild' ones out in open water. Five Nations I believe had them.
goblin_pride 02-14-07, 06:51 PM	I shall play the devil's advocate here and question Darguun's ability to counterattack. At the moment at least. With bands such as the Kraal lords acting more or less freely in the nearby area it seems that the goblinoid nation lacks the required naval power,stability and, possibly, the numbers in the concerning area to assault the pirates' base. Of course, that might change in a few years...but these Cyrans might b too desperate to consider that. Otherwise, all were very good ideas. The Kraal lords were the ones I figured they would have to deal with in Darguun. Without an actual navy, Darguun itself wouldn't be a problem. I've noticed from the various books that the farther you get from Rhukaan Draal the less influence Haruuc has, so the Kraal lords are the defacto Darguun government in that territory. Considering the Mourning was two years ago, I would imagine food raids from the last Cyran city would've already taken place.
UnderworldLord 02-14-07, 07:08 PM	Marked for death, they find food on the table, and Cytan wine. Its all still good. Nothing ages or decays, but I believe it was stated that removing it would very rapidly age it.
goblin_pride 02-14-07, 08:23 PM	Marked for death, they find food on the table, and Cytan wine. Its all still good. Nothing ages or decays, but I believe it was stated that removing it would very rapidly age it. Again, the OP said it escaped the Mourning so it's outside the mist and it's a major city. Even eating the food left on the tables inside the mists, you're talking about enough to survive maybe a couple months past when the city's food reserves run out.
UnderworldLord 02-14-07, 10:40 PM	I was talking about the food that the stuff they scavenged. I should have been more clear.
Devlonir 02-15-07, 08:48 AM	To get away from the discussion about how they survive (although i think giving a safe port for Lhazaar pirates of the southern seas to harbor for a good price would also we a nice way to get money to trade) I want to suggest a name for the place: True Cyre Seeing how this Emperor claimed himself the true leader of Cyre and probably knowing about New Cyre in Breland, he would call his city True Cyre. It is on Cyran soil, still has much of their old culture and architecture intact and has an independent place in the world (although not many people would acknowledge it) Also, if Cyran survivors hear about both New Cyre and True Cyre for the first time, which do you think they would choose to go back to...? Exactly, the one that seems feels more like their old home and less like a Brelish refugee camp.
UnderworldLord 02-15-07, 10:37 AM	Okay, so they harbor pirates, are a singly fortress-city, and are on the edge of the Mournland. Assuming they have at least a bit of land for agriculture, I'd say this False Emporer might actually relish in the slave trade, since he could get rid of people this way, and keep the Hobgoblins happy. So they have population, food, money, and a way to keep from getting attacked, and plenty of defenses. We have a way for them to reduce population, even though its probably still overcrowded. Crime is rampant... but what would the D'marked houses [namely the ones that had stakes in Cyre] say? Surely Cannith, who has such interest in the Mournland, wouldn't want to see someone else going in... though it might offer them a nice base of operations to launch crews into the Mournland. This is granted I haven't got Dragonmarked the book, and am still treating House cannith as a singular entity, rather than a divided house.
Macrovore 02-15-07, 10:47 AM	Call it Port Royal, Crownport or Kingsport, that way it has that feeling like it was once a proud city, home to the bulk of the king of Cyre's navy. PLEASE don't call it port royal. then everybody will want to be a pirate.:D
UnderworldLord 02-15-07, 10:49 AM	Well it did say to take references from movies like Pirates of the Carribean.
goblin_pride 02-15-07, 11:52 AM	Well it did say to take references from movies like Pirates of the Carribean. Dude, crack the cover of a history book.
UnderworldLord 02-15-07, 07:32 PM	Bah, I haven't checked a history book in almost a year. I intend to continue this trend as long as possible.
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 08:31 AM	Bah, I haven't checked a history book in almost a year. I intend to continue this trend as long as possible. Those history books that you're planning to avoid are the absolute best source for inspiration. The last city of Cyre could easily mirror cities of the real world history with just a bit of tweaking.
UnderworldLord 02-16-07, 11:56 AM	I suppose so. But I've just got so many criminology books to play with! But just out of curiosity, what cities did you have in mind?
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 12:57 PM	Venice was founded by Italians fleeing the Huns. Port Royal, Tortuga and Kingston were pirate havens. Hong Kong and Macao were European trading ports in China. Nagasaki was a European trading port in Japan. Accra in the middle east was pretty much a European port for most of the 11th to 14th century. Bokhara was heavily influenced by mongol invaders after the great horde reached there. Taking a bit from each wouldn't be terribly difficult. It won't be easy, but if you want to make the last Cyran city a vibrant living part of the campaign, you have to think of it as another character. The city itself needs to have a history that leads directly to where it is now. It needs to have a personality, not only for itself but one that lends itself to the people that call it home. When the name of the city is all that it takes to evoke an image, then you've got a city that works as a perfect backdrop for the campaign. Look at Los Angeles, Timbuktu or Rome for really good examples of this. Everyone knows the names and those names evoke an image.
snakebliskan 02-16-07, 01:17 PM	Goblin pride has a very good point. Now as to how the city sits in the world i would have to say that this person that is the leader isnt going to want the prince to hear about a city of cyre still surviving. i would use something like a cloaking device from whitehearth being used here and maybe this is the origin of the steel krakens... can they still produce them ... who knows maybe thats how they survive the krakens plunder the seas and return with the spoils of those trips.... or that they built an underground city or maybe just below the water is a huge underwater city? solves the over population problem... make the leader a canith renegade master who only rules to keep his experiments out of the worlds( and canniths eyes!) hmm i think i might try this in my world if you dont mind....
The Fireballed Mage 02-16-07, 01:34 PM	Along with having a small strip of land serving as a food supplier for the colony, I'd have an island just off the coast serving as the city's primary food source. The island has a small manifest zone to Lamannia (the Twilight Forest) that increases plant growth and provides abundant crops. One of the "Emperor's" biggest sticks over the population is that he controls the food fleet: it being a royal crime to set foot on the island without permission from the "emperor." He uses slave labour (always lots to pick up in an over-crowded city) to work the island, and conditions on the state farms are appauling. If the people start to riot or get uppity, he cuts off food shipments for a few weeks and cows everyone back into submission. Also kills off some of the old and weak, thus "aleviating" some of the over-crowding. Diplomatic ties (by the way) are recognized on a pragmatic basis. If there's nothing this city can offer the rest of Khorvaire, then they won't get diplomatic recognition. If they have something others want or fear... then recognition follows. If it's merely a hive of scum and villany, then the Dragonmark Houses won't really have too much of a presence. They're business people, and business requires laws and structure to function. (Yes, you can make money in war, but usually if the chaos of war is not happening all around you.) Of course the Houses will keep spies and an influence in the city, but probably not a real enclave. More likely, "I know a guy who knows someone in House Pharlian."
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 01:44 PM	Along with having a small strip of land serving as a food supplier for the colony, I'd have an island just off the coast serving as the city's primary food source. I wouldn't. I'd make all of the local nobility and/or rulers have ties to one pirate crew or more and all food coming in be looted, traded or outright stolen from somewhere else. This would give it more of a free-wheeling "pirate capital" feel. When the ruler wants the people submissive, he simply instructs the merchant-rogues of the city to stop selling. Are you going to cross the governor that can just as easily starve you out by cutting you off from your supplier? Or even worse, if the Gov, says stop selling and you don't, you have to worry about him sending his goons over to have a "talk". It gives the place a bit more of the "wretched hive of scum and villainy" feel, in my opinion. Man, I'm beginning to think I'm gonna start using the place myself. I like the idea of a freebooter's capital. It's just a wonderful setting for a very dark campaign.
The Fireballed Mage 02-16-07, 04:28 PM	I wouldn't. I'd make all of the local nobility and/or rulers have ties to one pirate crew or more and all food coming in be looted, traded or outright stolen from somewhere else. The problem with that set up is that it is very difficult to supply a city on nothing but imported foodstuffs. Especially when there's no easy way for the food to arrive: ie, being surrounded by Darguun, Valenar, and the Mourland means food shipments will require significant time to arrive. Also, importing food is expensive. Where is the "emperor" getting the funds to support his population? From taxes sure, but how much of a tax base does the city have, trapped up against the Mourland as it is? Rome did it with the grain fleets from Egypt, but they had an empire at their beck and call. This city has nothing. Besides, an island 'farm' is a good way for the "emperor" to deal with political prisoners or undesirables. Rather than just killing 'em, they get sentenced to "public service," of hard labour on the state run farms that are crucial to the surivial of the city. The managers of the island farm appointed by the "emperor" are corrupt and greedy, leading to numerous adventure hooks: The contact you're looking for has been sent to the farm. No one is allowed to see the workers without permission from the overseer, and he's not in the mood. A rebellion is occuring on the island farm. The "emperor" offers you great treasures to put down the "insurrection against the lawful authority." The manager of the island is planning a coup against the "emperor." Which side do you support? Pirates are blockading the island farm. Without food the city will starve. A fleet from Darguun arrives off the shore of the island. They lay claim to it as a holy site of the once proud Dhakanni empire. If they claim it the city will starve. Will you defend the island? Thus, all the fun of a pirate haven, with some other home grown adventures waiting to happen.
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 05:19 PM	Besides, an island 'farm' is a good way for the "emperor" to deal with political prisoners or undesirables. Rather than just killing 'em, they get sentenced to "public service," of hard labour on the state run farms that are crucial to the surivial of the city. The managers of the island farm appointed by the "emperor" are corrupt and greedy Nah, sell 'em to the Darguuni, no prisoners, no undesirables and no power sharing (see also: Undesirables). Most of the food will be fished in the waters around the city with grains and such being traded for in slaves, plundered loot and Cyran artifacts. The city's lifeline will be the pirate fleets that use the existance of a safe haven beyond the laws of the countries they're avoiding. Sure you could get hard currency from pirates for a berth on the docks, but this city will take grain and foodstuffs for that same berth which means you don't have to worry about finding a buyer if you hit a merchantman hauling grain. The city will literally take anything you have and if they can't eat it, it'll find it's way into the holds of an outbound fat trader to be turned into coin somewhere else. It creates a bit of a twisted reality where pirates and merchant princes both profit from each other. One literally steals what the other sells to someone else, who then stands a good chance of getting hit by another pirate to begin the cycle all over again. It's a city where gold flows like wine and the bread you eat is worth it's weight in platinum. The price of a meal here could break a Kundarak, but if you were smart, you hauled in a king's ransom in grain anyway. What you'll be making off the goods you bought during your stay will make you a very popular person when you get back to the real world, mate, just be sure you're flying the right colors 'til you get there or you'll find yourself robbed on the high seas and crossing the blocks in the Darguuni market.......
Romulus LoneWolf 02-21-07, 07:14 PM	I see True Cyre being a lot like Hong Kong after a fashion.. An Economy mostly focused on Trade. It would make a perfect stop-point for sailors going around Darguun.. The "Last Civilized Port", if you will..
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 02-23-07, 03:31 PM	Betitifull idea, concider it added to my list of intended ebberon campeghns. One thing that strikes me about it is for those who for what ever reason place themseves outside common society, Renegade master makers, bearers of aberant marks posibly even half dragons, the city would be a haven. So long as you can make your own way in such a place no one cares what you are, at least no one you cant kill, strip the corpse of, and leave everything that wont sell in the gutter.
The Fireballed Mage 02-23-07, 03:51 PM	One thing that strikes me about it is for those who for what ever reason place themseves outside common society, Renegade master makers, bearers of aberant marks posibly even half dragons, the city would be a haven. So long as you can make your own way in such a place no one cares what you are, at least no one you cant kill, strip the corpse of, and leave everything that wont sell in the gutter. Makes it a good place for Scuttlecove, a city that is described as quote: "To say the small city of Scuttlecove is a ruptured boil on an otyugh's ass would be insulting otyughts everywhere. On its best days, a commoner wandering the streets of Scuttlecove would be lucky to make it an hour with being assualted. Now... things aren't quite that serene." Dungeon 95.
Yakman 02-23-07, 05:19 PM	I see True Cyre being a lot like Hong Kong after a fashion.. An Economy mostly focused on Trade. It would make a perfect stop-point for sailors going around Darguun.. The "Last Civilized Port", if you will.. Not Hong Kong--the Brits are too civilized. It's Macao or Singapore (pre-Raffles)--pirates, bucaneers, half-breeds, prostitutes, gamblers, drunks, and people too poor/stupid to go anywhere else.
goblin_pride 02-23-07, 06:40 PM	--pirates, bucaneers, half-breeds, prostitutes, gamblers, drunks, and people too poor/stupid to go anywhere else. Sounds like my kinda town.....
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 07:10 PM	This is what I'm thinking: There's a peninsula of Cyre that juts out into Kraken Bay. And on the map that I have in front of me, the borders of the Mournland actually end a few miles away from the tip of that peninsula. Obviously a mistake, a slip of the digital "pen", but still and all, I don’t mind violating Canon. OOOOOOOHHHHHHH! I'm stealing this. :schemes: I see exactly where you are refering too. It's on page 189 of the ECS. There is about ten to 12 miles of land not covered by the Dead, Grey Mist. Not much protection against a Super Tsunami, but it's there nonetheless. Enough to put a hill and a natural cove there. Awesome. Since this is the Last City of Cyre, it should have something of that glory.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 02-23-07, 07:25 PM	Just a thought but for those who have Dragon 352 Bas-Lag, on a river, technomagical, corupt with a mercenary and self serving government in charge could easaly do for the city. Ok Kepri and Cactar may be a bit of a strech, the Vodanoi become a local race of mer creatures and the rest fits very nicely with some tweaks.
Swordsage_Master 02-24-07, 01:12 AM	I love the idea and I'm going to have to use this too but...I don't know if its been mentioned or not but how would the Cannith house react to a city of last refuge in Cyre? I mean the home base for House Cannith was Cyre and the house power is split three ways in the references. Are there any claims of house power there and if so who and how much power do they have? Would there be any creation forges there? I mean it is on a costal port where shipments of Warforged could be quickly loaded and shipped to nations quickly and quietly? Just some thoughts, ideas and wonderings.
goblin_pride 02-24-07, 11:53 AM	I love the idea and I'm going to have to use this too but...I don't know if its been mentioned or not but how would the Cannith house react to a city of last refuge in Cyre? I mean the home base for House Cannith was Cyre and the house power is split three ways in the references. Are there any claims of house power there and if so who and how much power do they have? Would there be any creation forges there? I mean it is on a costal port where shipments of Warforged could be quickly loaded and shipped to nations quickly and quietly? If Cannith wants to lay claim to the stuff they left in Cyre, they had better have slightly more than proof of ownership prior to the mourning. Something along the lines of an army or they'll pay for the relics just like anyone else that wants them.
Yakman 02-26-07, 11:38 AM	If Cannith wants to lay claim to the stuff they left in Cyre, they had better have slightly more than proof of ownership prior to the mourning. Something along the lines of an army or they'll pay for the relics just like anyone else that wants them. And I think Mssr. Blades might just claim squatter's rights....
UnderworldLord 02-26-07, 11:54 AM	Which brings up the following idea: would the city possibly have any relations with the LoBster? A campaign where you want to do a battle might involve the PCs going there to stop him from trying his first actual attempt to take control of land outside the Mournland. Just think of all the cool fun of fighting an all warforged army, including scouts, chargers, titans, the Lord of Blades himself, those neat little traps from that one article... possibly Cadaver Collectors he might now be in control of. Any number of fun things.
goblin_pride 02-26-07, 12:59 PM	And I think Mssr. Blades might just claim squatter's rights.... I think a city just beyond the mists might serve the Lord of Blades' purposes. If you think about it, the mournlands have quite a bit of resources, but that last Cyran city just beyond the grey makes a good place to trade with the outside world for things that you can't scavenge and an excellent place for your agents to disembark for ports of call all over Khorvaire. I realize that means he has to accept a nest of the meatbags right on the border of his kingdom, but I'm certain he could cow them into being friendly if he needed to.
Yakman 02-26-07, 03:00 PM	I think a city just beyond the mists might serve the Lord of Blades' purposes. If you think about it, the mournlands have quite a bit of resources, but that last Cyran city just beyond the grey makes a good place to trade with the outside world for things that you can't scavenge and an excellent place for your agents to disembark for ports of call all over Khorvaire. I realize that means he has to accept a nest of the meatbags right on the border of his kingdom, but I'm certain he could cow them into being friendly if he needed to. I think he'd probably be a big fan of it, personally. I don't see Mssr. Blades as killing every fleshling that comes along--if you mess with him, you die, of course, but I can see his group having working relationships with some of the bands of scavengers that wander the Mournland, and certainly with such a city as the thread discusses. After all, he has to trade for items, needs news from outside, etc.. I wouldn't go traipsing into his camp, but I don't see him killing on sight either.
goblin_pride 02-26-07, 03:54 PM	I think he'd probably be a big fan of it, personally. I don't see Mssr. Blades as killing every fleshling that comes along--if you mess with him, you die, of course, but I can see his group having working relationships with some of the bands of scavengers that wander the Mournland, and certainly with such a city as the thread discusses. After all, he has to trade for items, needs news from outside, etc.. The last city gives you an excuse to put a warforged village just inside the mists. A small encampment where the Lord of Blades' scavengers can take the things they don't need from the ruins of old Cyre. The merchants from the Last City of Cyre travel into the mists for about a day's march and trade for the goods the warforged are gathering to sell for things they can't get*. *including perhaps the coins to pay off the warforged of Karrnath and Thrane from their indentured servitude.
Yakman 02-28-07, 12:26 PM	The last city gives you an excuse to put a warforged village just inside the mists. A small encampment where the Lord of Blades' scavengers can take the things they don't need from the ruins of old Cyre. The merchants from the Last City of Cyre travel into the mists for about a day's march and trade for the goods the warforged are gathering to sell for things they can't get*. *including perhaps the coins to pay off the warforged of Karrnath and Thrane from their indentured servitude. Now there's an interesting thought...
UnderworldLord 03-01-07, 08:32 PM	This town is now officially in my game thanks to goblin_pride. My players will hate you.
goblin_pride 03-02-07, 12:42 AM	This town is now officially in my game thanks to goblin_pride. My players will hate you. What the heck, mine already do. Who knew a party that could chew up a druid 5 couldn't handle a CR 2 crocodile?
Romulus LoneWolf 03-02-07, 03:52 PM	I think a city just beyond the mists might serve the Lord of Blades' purposes. If you think about it, the mournlands have quite a bit of resources, but that last Cyran city just beyond the grey makes a good place to trade with the outside world for things that you can't scavenge and an excellent place for your agents to disembark for ports of call all over Khorvaire. I realize that means he has to accept a nest of the meatbags right on the border of his kingdom, but I'm certain he could cow them into being friendly if he needed to. That, or secretly replace the city's leaders with Effigies... *Evil Grin*
Hideous Phidias 03-03-07, 01:43 PM	I have not taken the time to read all the post for this thread but had a few ideas for you. One I would use Saltmarsh out of DM2, you would have to change a few things like the lizardfolk to goblins. I once ran a game like what you were tlaking about but on the border of valanar. Two as for feeding the poor cyrans that now over croud the town the cyran navy live throught the day of mourning I think, at least some of them would have. I would think they would have sailed along the coast looking for people or a harbor of their old homeland.
Rekko 03-06-07, 10:14 PM	The Last city of Cyre. Here's how I imagine it. The Emperor/Pretender had a dream of discovering the horrors behind the tragic day. He also wanted to save as many artifacts (art, architecture, clothing, tools, even bodies for funerals, etc) so his nation wouldn't die. Unfortunatly, the city got quickly into starvation and many inhabitants fled the city and eventually got to New Cyre. For a time, the last city of Cyre would become a ghost city. Only the few who believed in the Emperor's idea of restoring Cyre's artifacts to Cyrans stayed there. They called for help so the glorious project would not die. Unfortunatly, no one was interested but crime lords and pirate princes. They killed the idealists and started to pillage the city and to enter the Mournland. Now, the last city of Cyre is nothing more than a pirate paradise, a giant casino-bar with all the fluf that goes with it. It is also a great starting point for many criminal expeditions and all the ressources it needs (like healing). Of course, the Lord of Blades has knowledge of this pillage business in the south. This is why warforged emcampments have been built in the past year. They intend to control the circulation of people and goods that comes in and out of the upcoming warforged nation. The emcampment serve also to another end. While pirates want to acquire the riches of Cyre, the warforged want to grow in numbers. So, you see me coming, there is a developping trade, or traffic, of warforged and warforged parts for Cyran artifacts. Cannith into all this? Cannith have great interest in the lost artifacts of their house and their home nation. They call for expeditions starting from all around the Mournland. But when it comes to the last city of Cyre, Cannith hires people who then hire other people who hires pirates or adventurers to recover lost cyran artifact that should eventually end up in their hands. New Cyre into this? As it is a shame for Cyrans to see their last city corrupted by crime lords, it is also outrageous to see all these artifacts being traded to pirates. Prince Orgrev is also into a race with Cannith and the pirates to retrieve cyran artifacts. Also, he is planning a way to put an end to this traffic. Maybe the solution hides into laying siege to the city and destroying it.
goblin_pride 03-06-07, 10:24 PM	Maybe the solution hides into laying siege to the city and destroying it. There's always the risks of the coppers coming and knockin' in the door and buggering up a perfectly good operation, ennit? We gots it comfy-cozy here and the royals what toasted our homes got a mind to shut us down for stealing back the bits we can from the mists? It's a damned fool's mission I should think, tryin' to punish us for stealing back what's ours by rights anyway.....
Rekko 03-07-07, 08:55 AM	It's a damned fool's mission I should think, tryin' to punish us for stealing back what's ours by rights anyway..... I agree if the residents of "True Cyre" were Cyrans, but in my vision of the last city it's filled by crime lords and pirate princes who may not be from Old mighty Cyre or even New Cyre. However, being artifacts from Cyre, I can perfectly see Cyrans being a good number in the ranks of the criminals and pirates. I have less difficulties to imagine the last city survive with non-permanent residents (pirates and criminals) who are always on the move (rest in the city, go into the mist, rest in the city, go elsewhere to sell artifacts, steal warforged and recruit new troops, come back to the last city and repeat the scenario all over again) In this way, food no longer a matter for the city but a matter for the members of each ship's crew. Sure there might be a few individuals that will choose to stay and live in the last city and establish some sort of commerce (repair forge, healing treatment, survival equipment, etc) and trade food and wealth for their products. Rekko
Zombomaniac 03-07-07, 02:30 PM	Two traits that you all seem to pushing away is the over population and the fact that there are people (not just pirates) that want to be there. Many people of Cyre would want to live on Cyre Land even if the city isn't as safe as most. All that means is that those who are happy with where they are likely wont go to "True Cyre" and last I checked a lot of Cyre people aren't happy with where they are.
Rekko 03-07-07, 02:55 PM	I agree that poeple would want to live there. However, they are going to realize somehow that it's nonesense to stay there and it is better off to move before getting into trouble with the high criminality. On an other point of vu, what prevents criminals from just killing the honest people in their way? Rekko
UnderworldLord 03-07-07, 03:30 PM	There is a theory in Criminal Justice about how people move into crime-ridden neighborhoods, and move out in concentric circles as they gain money. While they move out, someone has to move in, ie new poor. So yea, to an extent, its foreseeable that such a place can exist. Look at places in, say Chicago, Houston, or Washington DC. You just have to contemplate what effects a magical society would be like.
Zombomaniac 03-07-07, 03:43 PM	Another thing to remember is can they leave? They dont have much money thus they can't hire protection through the monster infested lands around them. Plus what if the Pretender has a deal with the LoBster to stop anyone trying to leave the city or something? The Pretender wants people in the city so he wont make it easy to leave. Plus he will take control of information leaving the city as best he can. Paying those who he allows to leave to spread word about how "great" "True Cyre" is.
Yakman 03-07-07, 03:50 PM	Another thing to remember is can they leave? They dont have much money thus they can't hire protection through the monster infested lands around them. Plus what if the Pretender has a deal with the LoBster to stop anyone trying to leave the city or something? The Pretender wants people in the city so he wont make it easy to leave. Plus he will take control of information leaving the city as best he can. Paying those who he allows to leave to spread word about how "great" "True Cyre" is. Why leave though? people don't have anywhere to go--their families are mostly dead, and those that remain are in the city already. people don't like emigrating to other countries without networks of support, and impoverished cyran refugees in q'barra and sharn aren't really great advertisements for leaving. plus, there's jobs aplenty working the smuggling routes, the trade in illicit goods, and producing cyran-crafted magic items (which the cyrans did best anyways). LCoC isn't a great place--it's rowdy, anarchic, and hanging on by a thread--but if you are quick on your feet and keep your wits about you, you can make a fortune, and plenty of people are doing just that.
UnderworldLord 03-07-07, 03:53 PM	Overall, I like it, and will probably drop that hook into my campaign... eventually.
goblin_pride 03-07-07, 08:34 PM	LCoC isn't a great place--it's rowdy, anarchic, and hanging on by a thread--but if you are quick on your feet and keep your wits about you, you can make a fortune, and plenty of people are doing just that. The Last City was never meant to be a friendly place or a shining example of Cyre's greatness. The OP wanted a "wretched hive of scum and villainy", and I think we've pretty much figured out how to make that work. Sure, if you want to make it a pleasant, gleaming city that shows that people are trying to rebuild Cyre, that's all yours. I prefer the pirate's haven, the smugglers port, the criminal's playground, the city that caters to people of ill repute, a beacon in the dark for the merchant prince that considers nothing more important than increasing his account with Kundarak. It's not so bad here if you've got the stones for it. The captains of the street gangs keep the peace pretty good and you can do whatever suits your fancy, as long as you clear it with one of them. Even if they don't like what you're doing, if you're quick with a knife, you can take his place and do it anyway. Heck, you might even pick up a spot of coin that way, when his guttersnipes become your guttersnipes. Hopefully you don't get all squeemish when there's blood on the coins you pick up, though....
Rekko 03-08-07, 09:44 AM	What trades, other than Cyran artifacts, the LCoC could invest in? Slavery with Darguun? Warforged individuals and parts with the LoB? Brewing ale and wine? Healing centers? Other?
goblin_pride 03-08-07, 09:51 AM	You forgot piracy, gambling and "hospitality". Although that ain't the kind of "hospitality" you'll find at a Ghalladra resort, I can tell you. And for a nice, discreet place to meet with other than reputable businessmen, there's no place better under the sun. With an "anything goes" policy towards trade, the Last City would be a hotbed for all manner of illegal goods headed for other parts of the world. If you don't mind a bit of blood on the artifact you've come to buy, that can be arranged at a slight discount by any number of other agents as well.
Rekko 03-08-07, 10:17 AM	Add up a few hidden chroniclers that couldn't get a better story elsewhere. Why not a hand full of scholars who studies living spells, abberations, or some other effects of the Mournland. The Dark Six and the Cults of the Dragon Below could be the religions of influence. Would the Dreaming Dark and/or the Inspired be interested in such a place, and why? The Lords of Dust? Other?
UnderworldLord 03-08-07, 10:26 AM	The DD prolly wouldn't want any part of that rabble. But I'd say, as far as economy, you'dhave REAL Cyrans producing REAL Cyran wines/foods/etc, something not all that common. Throw in some plants/animals that only existed in Cyre and you'd have a huge export industry with people wanting to get their hands on it... not to mention illegal exports, on what are, there, considered pretty well legal objects. Look at the S:CoTs book and you'll find a number of drugs: what stops these people from being manufacturers? I mean, for all intents and purposes, this place could be like the Eberronian Amsterdam or something.
Yakman 03-08-07, 04:04 PM	The Last City was never meant to be a friendly place or a shining example of Cyre's greatness. The OP wanted a "wretched hive of scum and villainy", and I think we've pretty much figured out how to make that work. Sure, if you want to make it a pleasant, gleaming city that shows that people are trying to rebuild Cyre, that's all yours. I prefer the pirate's haven, the smugglers port, the criminal's playground, the city that caters to people of ill repute, a beacon in the dark for the merchant prince that considers nothing more important than increasing his account with Kundarak. It's not so bad here if you've got the stones for it. The captains of the street gangs keep the peace pretty good and you can do whatever suits your fancy, as long as you clear it with one of them. Even if they don't like what you're doing, if you're quick with a knife, you can take his place and do it anyway. Heck, you might even pick up a spot of coin that way, when his guttersnipes become your guttersnipes. Hopefully you don't get all squeemish when there's blood on the coins you pick up, though.... No, I definitely see it the way you see it. I was just explaining why people who aren't overtly criminals or pirates or thugs or harlots would remain in the city--if you play it right, you can make a pretty penny. The place is not only for pirates, but also for skilled artisans making things you can't get anywhere else--including some really nasty things.
UnderworldLord 03-08-07, 04:16 PM	Why does you're last line lead me to think of that device that extracts liquid pain?
Yakman 03-08-07, 04:50 PM	Why does you're last line lead me to think of that device that extracts liquid pain? Anything, really. I mean, you have all these skilled guys without any possesions, and all these nasty guys with swords, and you are going to get some nasty guys with poison swords that shoot spiders and stuff...
The_Last_Rogue 03-08-07, 05:19 PM	Just popping in . . .to mention something just a tad off topic (sorry) Doesn't 5 Nations hint at a city just like this, to a degree, anyway. I do not have the text in front of me, but isn't there a city called Seaside or some such moniker -- I believe the flavor text mentions a group of people huddling out on the sea or docks and boats and watching the mist stop just yards from them . . . Eventually a few brave (see also:foolish) people enter the mist and die . . .but the second group of poor souls who do so live. The flavor ends there, but that is a interesting little peice of info. Then again I am doing this from memory so I could be wrong.
Zombomaniac 03-08-07, 10:45 PM	Just popping in . . .to mention something just a tad off topic (sorry) Doesn't 5 Nations hint at a city just like this, to a degree, anyway. I do not have the text in front of me, but isn't there a city called Seaside or some such moniker -- I believe the flavor text mentions a group of people huddling out on the sea or docks and boats and watching the mist stop just yards from them . . . Eventually a few brave (see also:foolish) people enter the mist and die . . .but the second group of poor souls who do so live. The flavor ends there, but that is a interesting little peice of info. Then again I am doing this from memory so I could be wrong. Even if your right (and you could easily be) Seaside sounds like it is in the mists which would scare away a ot of people.
goblin_pride 03-09-07, 06:55 PM	Seaside is in the mists, I reread the bit on it last night. I think the last city should be just outside the mists, a sprawling tenement of canals, docks and warehouses clinging to a narrow spit of land. Venice would be the best example of what I was thinking, a city built out onto the sea because land is such a rare commodity. As the population grows, the city just grows farther out onto the water. The people that actually do the building in the last city are the very best of engineers, building a teeming metropolis right out into the harbor, raising four and five story buildings where there was nothing but open water last year. On a side note, the number of canals would serve a purpose for a campaign set in the last city as a dumping ground for all manner of refuse. Anything could be found floating in the canals, including the PCs if they're not careful.
UnderworldLord 03-09-07, 07:19 PM	So its a pirate version of Venice now? I was thinking of it as more of a single fortress, with walls, grounds, and a few yards of irrigated farmland just outside. The docking facilities for boats/airships would be a ways away from the main fortress, outside the walls, but this is another way to think of it. Somewhat reminiscent to the City on Stilts in a way, but that was over a marshland, and this is open sea. Which gives rise to another good hook if you think of it like that: perhaps they are (unknowingly) encroaching on some underwater race or another's territory, and there is about to be a rebellion.
goblin_pride 03-10-07, 12:08 AM	Sorry, I had an image of Venice in mind the whole time, a city that's as much in the sea as along it. But then again, I also pictured a city, not just a single fortress nestled between the sea and the mists.
Yakman 03-12-07, 12:30 PM	Sorry, I had an image of Venice in mind the whole time, a city that's as much in the sea as along it. But then again, I also pictured a city, not just a single fortress nestled between the sea and the mists. Venice was originally built on an island--the original settlers were fleeing Huns or some such. It grew onto the mainland, not the other way around. But it's also only been 4 years since the Mourning. People wouldn't have time to build canals and stuff--it's all shacks on mudflats, with an ever more precarious system of wooden docks reaching out to the sea.
Romulus LoneWolf 03-12-07, 03:35 PM	Hong Kong also comes to mind in terms of people trying to make the most of what little land is available for both building and agriculture. I imagine True Cyre would be in a constant state of flux, with old, unused building being quickly destroyed, only for new building projects replacing them the next day...
Rekko 03-12-07, 03:40 PM	Would a manifest zone of a plane help in the fast construction of floating buildings?
goblin_pride 03-12-07, 04:15 PM	Venice was originally built on an island--the original settlers were fleeing Huns or some such. It grew onto the mainland, not the other way around. No island, just sandbars and mudflats. But you're right, I hadn't thought about the time factor. Probably alot of the city would be built of wood, almost like a city built directly onto the docks. With interconnected walkways linking portions of the city together above open stretches of water for small boats to move in and out of the heart of the city.
Yakman 03-12-07, 04:50 PM	Would a manifest zone of a plane help in the fast construction of floating buildings? I dont' really see how... and it kind of defeats the purpose. You want it to be ramshackle, built fast and not well, houses and docks collapsing in the water, raw sewage floating around, small boats darting in and out, fish mongers rubbing up with pirate captains, the look of a tent city/refugee camp/pirate den building out into the shallow water off the coast.
mfaulkner 03-12-07, 06:08 PM	Very interesting thread. A few ideas that may/may not be useful. 1) Even a hive of scum and villainy has to have some kind of working authority. Total chaos and anarchy doesn't lead to anyone obtaining wealth, establishing trade, or building a base of power. Think of some of the worst places in the world's history (Port Royal and the Barbary Coast comes to mind). although anything could be bought/sold at these places, there was a central authority that kept the place from exploding. It would be true to say that the central authority could have been some of the worst at causing problems, but it still stands that there was never total anarchy or chaos. In the times that there was...(lets just say those places didn't last long or that a new power soon took over). 2) House Cannith is divided into three factions. Why can't House Cannith publicly denounce the ruler of said True Cyre while secretly having each faction of House Cannith having an undeclared war in the place. This could add a large degree of hooks and uncertainty in the area. Other houses could also have known and unknown agents working in the area. Maybe for or against Cannith. Again just some thoughts that I may expand upon later.
Romulus LoneWolf 03-12-07, 07:24 PM	Interesting idea. I'm thinking the ruler of True Cyre must be a very cunning manipulator, working different factions against each other to make sure none gets a real advantage over the others..
goblin_pride 03-12-07, 08:18 PM	Interesting idea. I'm thinking the ruler of True Cyre must be a very cunning manipulator, working different factions against each other to make sure none gets a real advantage over the others.. I was thinking about modelling the governor of the Last City in my campaign on one of the Borgias of Venice. Someone like Pope Leo would be perfect, a scheming merchant-prince that uses the trappings of civilized society while double-dealing and playing dirty in all his dealings. Add his daughter, her long list of dead lovers and husbands, his son's perverted moral compass and a city watch made up of delightfully corrupt officials and then you have a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
mfaulkner 03-12-07, 09:01 PM	I was thinking about modelling the governor of the Last City in my campaign on one of the Borgias of Venice. Someone like Pope Leo would be perfect, a scheming merchant-prince that uses the trappings of civilized society while double-dealing and playing dirty in all his dealings. Add his daughter, her long list of dead lovers and husbands, his son's perverted moral compass and a city watch made up of delightfully corrupt officials and then you have a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And you still have a central authority that can (well, if not keep the peace...) keep a lid on things.
UnderworldLord 03-12-07, 09:42 PM	I've been thinking on it, and I think they were originally built on the edge of the peninsula, and have expanded into a giant rickety system of Docks, houseboats, etc. While the main city tends to have a few beautiful structures, most of the populate that isn't a corrupt official live out their. I'm thinking that if a manifest zone was added, Kythri would be best for the theme. However, there is another way to look at things: Daanvi is the realm of perfect order. Perhaps its the only way the city even holds itself together. That part is a bit further out, but its the best I can think of.
goblin_pride 03-13-07, 03:21 AM	I'm thinking that if a manifest zone was added, Kythri would be best for the theme. The dead-grey mist is so close, I wouldn't want to add something else to the city like a manifest zone. I take the similarities between the Mournlands and the descriptions of Dolurrh as a little too similar to be coincidence, even if it isn't a manifest zone of Dolurrh. I would, however, make the city out to be a sort of "city built just outside the gates of hell". With the people living so close to a place that looks like the Eberron version of the afterlife, the level of hedonism should be absolutely through the roof. You call me a glutton? You call me a hedonist? You look down on me for living my life to the fullest? I challenge you to walk half a day past the northern edge of the city and tell me that I am wrong to live my life as I choose. That mist is the sign I needed to see that life is meant to be lived. No pleasure is too outlandish, no sensation too extreme. I have wealth aplenty and the desire to spend some of it, it does no harm to you. This place, this city was built on the edge of Dolurrh on Eberron and you tell me that I shouldn't do as I wish? What fate could befall me beyond my death that I haven't endured already?
Zombomaniac 03-13-07, 11:41 AM	This was mentioned earlier. Just a thought but for those who have Dragon 352 Bas-Lag, on a river, technomagical, corupt with a mercenary and self serving government in charge could easaly do for the city. Ok Kepri and Cactar may be a bit of a strech, the Vodanoi become a local race of mer creatures and the rest fits very nicely with some tweaks. I have #352 and the Vodanoi would fit in real nice. Just shortly after the Day of Mourning they started coming into True Cyre and after some initial confusion they have intergrated into the populace and with their Watercraeft ability they could move the water away from certian areas to make construction in the water much easier. Aswell the Pretender could hire many of them to patrol the waters around the city. Very likly the Water Authority of True Cyre and since the Vodanoi are new to the city (and likly as poor as everyone else) they would take the jobs and pay happily. I don't think the Kepri could really fit into this at all, but the Cactar could fit into Drooam (sp) real easy.
UnderworldLord 03-13-07, 12:30 PM	I agree with you point, Goblin_Pride, but I'm saying that one might be the best fit if you really did want one.
Yakman 03-13-07, 02:15 PM	I have #352 and the Vodanoi would fit in real nice. Just shortly after the Day of Mourning they started coming into True Cyre and after some initial confusion they have intergrated into the populace and with their Watercraeft ability they could move the water away from certian areas to make construction in the water much easier. Aswell the Pretender could hire many of them to patrol the waters around the city. Very likly the Water Authority of True Cyre and since the Vodanoi are new to the city (and likly as poor as everyone else) they would take the jobs and pay happily. They don't have to have shown up after the Mourning. The could have been there the entire time.
Zombomaniac 03-13-07, 03:48 PM	They don't have to have shown up after the Mourning. The could have been there the entire time. True, but they never showed up. i was thinking something like they lived under water for ever, but then the mass energy of the mourning drew them to the surface or something. It need not be anything to complicated.
Owl_diDeneith 03-22-07, 02:40 PM	I love this idea, and of course like many am thinking heavily of borrowing it. I also would point out to you kind gentlebeings that Gibralter is very much also a possible scenario to borrow from. A city/state built on the very last bit of the *****ula hanging off spain. Not Spain, not England. Originally Arabic, taken over by the Austrians, Dutch, Spanish, English etc. Surviving of course on the little rainfall that hits the mountain (the Gibra -al Tariq), and terraced farming. A quick trip via wikipedia should stimulate ideas galore... Consider also the possiblilty of trade/piracy with Q'barra, Aerenal, fleets coming to and from Xendrik.
ryanroyce 03-23-07, 01:00 AM	The dead-grey mist is so close, I wouldn't want to add something else to the city like a manifest zone. I take the similarities between the Mournlands and the descriptions of Dolurrh as a little too similar to be coincidence, even if it isn't a manifest zone of Dolurrh. I would, however, make the city out to be a sort of "city built just outside the gates of hell". With the people living so close to a place that looks like the Eberron version of the afterlife, the level of hedonism should be absolutely through the roof. You call me a glutton? You call me a hedonist? You look down on me for living my life to the fullest? I challenge you to walk half a day past the northern edge of the city and tell me that I am wrong to live my life as I choose. That mist is the sign I needed to see that life is meant to be lived. No pleasure is too outlandish, no sensation too extreme. I have wealth aplenty and the desire to spend some of it, it does no harm to you. This place, this city was built on the edge of Dolurrh on Eberron and you tell me that I shouldn't do as I wish? What fate could befall me beyond my death that I haven't endured already? Unless, of course, it was the very presence of a manifest zone that prevented the Mists from covering that peninsula in the first place. Make it a MZ of Lamannia with the effect of making plants and animals especially... fertile. Plants grow more fruit, animals have larger litters, and even the humans are more prone to having twins or triplets (it's only been four years, though, so this isn't a big deal... yet). This would also justify the presence of several rare and unique species, including plants of a particular... pharmaceutical persuasion. ;) I recognize that this deflates the idea of the population being fed almost entirely by piracy, but that idea might not appeal to everyone anyway. Which brings me to my next point: The Last City of Cyre gives Eberron something that it has been lacking in comparison to Forgotten Realms, IMO, and that is a "Border Kingdoms" type of area. A place where powerful PCs can establish their own semi-autonomous city-state and develop beyond being "mere adventurers". :king: After deposing The Pretender and his despotic rule, the PCs (assuming that at least one of them is Cyran) would be in an ideal position to assume partial or total control of the "nation" and restore a semblance of order. :emp: The site would be replete with adventure hooks, including Darguun slavers &, Valenar raiders (yes, they're YOUR problem now!), rogue kraken, the LoBster, Lhazaarite pirate princes, Pretender-loyalist insurgents, Cannith/New Cyre political intrigue and being parked right outside the largest dungeon in the history of ever. The adventures practically write themselves. :plotting:
Knightstar 03-26-07, 02:09 AM	to the OP: Frak you...ive been thinking about a "last city of cyre" to drop into my campaign for a few months now, making it something of a higher level city... and dagnabbit, you gone and done it better than i could have. well.. well... consider your idea gakked for my game! so there, and nice job. (*grumbles as he starts to write up notes on "True Cyre"*)
Sir Elton 04-02-07, 11:57 PM	ahhhh . . . . too bad.
goblin_pride 04-03-07, 02:56 AM	and dagnabbit, you gone and done it better than i could have. Game material that is free, generated by others that love the setting and that doesn't cost you anything. I don't see the point of the complaint, really.