Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yrogerg 07-07-07, 08:21 PM	So, this is inspired by a few things; other than the main inspiration (cookies to the person who can spot it!), I came up with this idea in response to a few threads on this board: one which discussed the possibility of Psionic classes drawing power from the Couatl of the Flame, and another several threads about the culpability of Thrane for excesses that occurred during the Purge. So, this is what I came up with: While today, there is little left of the Scourers but a handful of rag-tag peasant militiamen, they started at the beginning as... a handful of rag-tag peasant militiamen. Their history begins at the height of the Lycanthropy epidemic in Aundair. Stoven ir'Tass, community leader in the countryside, grew incensed with the Thranish Templars' slow, seemingly half-hearted response to the epidemic, even as it claimed more lives and villages throughout Aundair. At some point in his career, he travelled to Flamekeep to demand more drastic steps in support of Aundair's people. The specifics of what happened to him there are a closely guarded secret of the Scourers, but what is known is that by the time he had returned to Auindair, he had discovered a means by which to channel the power of the Couatl within the Flame into an argent jet of energy in the form of a longbow. Upon his return, he left the public life, looking for way to use this newfound knowledge and power in defense of the people of Auidair. In time, he found a handful of talented individuals and trained them in this newfound form of combat. Thus were the first Scourers born. The Scourers continued to be deeply scornful of the Templar's efforts during the purge. They viewed them as weak, sympathetic, and far too unwilling to go to the necessary lengths to stop the lycanthropic menace. When rumors started surfacing that some of the Templars were even taking lengths to protect the lycanthropes, smuggling them out of Aundiar to other lands, the Scourers were outraged. For their part, the Scourers, who like many of Aundiar, came to the Flame from nothing so much as fear, cared little for the possiblity of redemption, caring only to destroy the monsters that terrorized their people. As a result, they tended to be quite thorough in their actions during the purge. While it is true that some Templars were guilty of excesses during the purge, many of the most notorious atrocities were committed not by the Templars, but by the Scourers. As an organization, the Scourers thought little of slaying Shifter and Lycanthrope alike, and frequently went so far as to put entire villages to the flame, if they were suspected of harboring the dreaded beasts. While these atrocities did not elicit condemnation from the Keeper of the time, later Keepers refused to sanction the legitimacy of the group. Nevertheless, the Scourers were largely seen as national heroes, doing what the Thranes would not or could not do as completely as needed. Thus, not unlike the Order of the Emerald Claw around the same time, the Scourers came to be as a fraternal order, an elite militia that still remained separate from Aundair's military proper. [Note: I don't have Forge of War, and am somewhat leery about its sections on The Flame, given comments on the boards anyway. This section is all written in complete ignorance of whatever it is that FoW says] During the Last War, the Scourers commonly fought side-by-side with Aundair's regulars. Separate from Aundair's command structure, they typically went where the need was greatest, often coordinating their efforts with friendly commanders. Thus did they serve the cause of their nation through the war, up until the battle for Thaolist. As Thaolist came under attack, the Scourers rallied to its defense, swearing on their honor as Scourers to defend the people of Aundiar. The battle was brutal. It was here that the festering enmity between the Scourers and the "Traitorous Thranes," as they called them (and ever do to this day), truly came to a head. The Scourers were so effective at holding off even the elite Thranish longbowmen that Flamekeep was forced to field Templars in the battle. The Scourers, true to their word, fought nearly to the last man, and the defeat of Aundair at Thaolist was a truly devastating blow not only to the nation of Aundair, but to the Scourers on a personal level. What few Scourers remain, passing down their craft to rare disciples, now do so largely in secret. Among the new generation of Scourers, time has failed to mollify the sense of hatred and betrayal felt over the events of the past; rather, it seems to have been intensified among these newest warriors. Mechanics are my weak spot, but I'll give this a try: Affiliation: Scourers Symbol: The Scourers typically carry the stylized image of a nocked bow as charms and blazoned on clothing. On occasion, these images are further stylized and given additional prongs, representing the spiritual energy drawn from the Couatl. Type: Military company Scale: 9(Regional) Despite their decline since the battle of Thaolist, many in Aundair remember the Scourers as national heroes, and there are still a few people of influence in Aundair who know a Scourer or former Scourer personally. Affiliation Score Criteria: All initiates must be a potential "talent": they must have the Manifest Mind Blade class ability. While this Affiliation is geared towards Soulbows, some exceptional members choose instead to focus on fighting other supernatural threats, often taking the Illumine Soul prestige class instead, or in combination with Soulbow. Affiliation Score Criteria Affiliation Score Modifier Character Level +1/2 PC's level Is Human +1 5 or more ranks of Knowledge (Religion) Knowledge (Psionics), or Psicraft +1 per skill Has BAB +5 +1 Member of Soulbow Prestige Class +2 Recieves training under a current Elder +2 Per successful mission +1 Saves the life of a current Flamebound or Greater +3 Worshipper of the Silver Flame +1/2 Defeats a lycanthrope, rakshasa or intellegent undead in combat +1/4 CR Humiliates the Thranish Church of the Silver Flame or Thranish Government +2 Region of Origin: Aundair +1 Fought for Aundair during the Last War +2 Region of Origin: Thrane -2 Fought for Thrane during the Last War -4 Travels or Associates with a Shifter or member of Monstrous race -2 Has been afflicted with Lycanthropy -20 and cannot improve score until cured Has been known to aid and protect Lycanthropes -5 Benefits: Ranks: 3 or lower No affiliation 4-10 Journeyman: +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against a rakshasa, shifter, or lycanthrope. 13-19 Flametouched +1 to attack and damage against the above creatures, +4 to Diplomacy and Bluff checks to influence Aundair natives. Use Psionic Device is considered a class skill. 20-25 Flamebound All attacks are considered Silver and Good aligned for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction, in addition to any other benefits from weapon or class abilities; may gain an audience with a moderatley influential political figure within Aundair once every 3 months 26-29 Elder May purchase items from the Scourers stores at 75% of base price; Gains Nemesis (BoED p.44) against either Lycanthropes, Shifters, and similar creatures, or Undead, as a Bonus Feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites. This feat is not subject to the standard restrictions of Exhalted Feats (BoED p. 39) 30+ Master I need to add something here Duties: 3 or lower No affiliation 4-10 Journeyman: Your contempt for the Thranish theocracy, and they for you, becomes impossible to disguise. You suffer a -10 penalty to all diplomacy checks against Templars of the Silver Flame 13-19 Flametouched Must destroy at least 5 intellegent undead, lycanthropes, or evil outsiders in one month or reduce affiliation score by 1 20-25 Flamebound I need to add something here 26-29 Elder I need to add something here
Syltorian 07-08-07, 07:03 AM	Those sound very interesting, yrogerg! I'd definitely consider using them in my game. I've begun thinking about using a group of Puritans who believe that even in those cured of Lycanthropy, and in their descendants, traces of the Taint linger... so that they see it as their duty to kill these unfortunates anyway. Though that'd probably have to be a smaller group than your Scourers (who were big before Thaliost, after all). Some criticisms/proposals: 1. Giving a +1 in the affiliation per level in the Soulbow PrC sounds a bit much. I'd make it a +2 for being a Soulbow. Otherwise, people rise through the ranks too easily. 2. Adding to Elder benefits: Gain benefits of the Nemesis (BoED) feat against Lycanthropes? 3. Adding to Master benefits: Perhaps they could gain a cohort, or allow them to turn and destroy lycanthropes, and turn (but not destroy, because of their limited were-creature blood) shifters? 4. Flamebound Duties: Once a year, you must expose or otherwise cause the downfall of at least one member of the Templars, or a Thrane-loyal Minister or Friar. Alternatively, you must recruit at least one new member into the organisation a year. 5. Elder Duties: Thrane considers you a criminal, and has standing arrest warrants against you. If you are recognised, you will be apprehended and risk the death penalty, usually with a fairly summary trial as you may have been tried in absentia already. 6. Maybe they could also have links with the Silver Torch (Five Nations). They're Thranes, but represent many of the ideals of Puritans, and, it seems of the Scourers. Tough the Silver Torch could as easily see them as traitors, of course.
gensuke626 07-08-07, 04:48 PM	I'm going out on a limb to try to get a cookie, but these guys sound like the Quincy from Bleach. Not that that's a bad thing, I mean, I've considered buying Complete Psionics JUST for the Soulbow PRC, but anyhow...
yrogerg 07-08-07, 05:14 PM	1. Giving a +1 in the affiliation per level in the Soulbow PrC sounds a bit much. I'd make it a +2 for being a Soulbow. Otherwise, people rise through the ranks too easily. Agreed. I'll tone it down. 2. Adding to Elder benefits: Gain benefits of the Nemesis (BoED) feat against Lycanthropes? 3. Adding to Master benefits: Perhaps they could gain a cohort, or allow them to turn and destroy lycanthropes, and turn (but not destroy, because of their limited were-creature blood) shifters? Not bad ideas; given the inspiration, I'm also thinking of making UPD a class skill for Scourers of a certain level: would Flametouched be appropriate for this? [edit]Actually, after having read the Nemesis feat, it would be pretty much perfect. Would it be B0rken to allow it to apply to all creatures with the (shapeshifter) subtype? 4. Flamebound Duties: Once a year, you must expose or otherwise cause the downfall of at least one member of the Templars, or a Thrane-loyal Minister or Friar. Alternatively, you must recruit at least one new member into the organisation a year. 5. Elder Duties: Thrane considers you a criminal, and has standing arrest warrants against you. If you are recognised, you will be apprehended and risk the death penalty, usually with a fairly summary trial as you may have been tried in absentia already. I'm not entirely sure about these two: I largely see the bitterness and hatred being somewhat one-sided at this point: to most Templars, the Scourers would be pretty much off the map, after their defeat at Thaolist. At the same time, most of the atrocities that the Scourers were a party to were committed 100-200 years ago; by now, a couple of generations have passed between the Purge and the current campaign date. While distrusted and marginalized, I'm not all that sure that they'd be seen as criminals or traitors. Most of that vitriol is likely to be coming from the Scourers' side, and in particular, the newer generation of Scourers. 6. Maybe they could also have links with the Silver Torch (Five Nations). They're Thranes, but represent many of the ideals of Puritans, and, it seems of the Scourers. Tough the Silver Torch could as easily see them as traitors, of course. By all means, they could. Personally, I actually *want* to keep open the possibility of a Scourer forming a reluctant alliance with a Thrane of the Flame (perhaps even with a Templar) to fight a greater evil. That's part of why I didn't include "associating with members of the Thranish CotSF" among the Score Modifiers. In such a situation, I'd imagine the hostility to turn into a fierce competitivism: the Scourer would go to great lengths to "one-up" their ally, and prove that they're more capable, more powerful, and overall, better than the Thranes.
yrogerg 07-08-07, 05:17 PM	I'm going out on a limb to try to get a cookie, but these guys sound like the Quincy from Bleach. Not that that's a bad thing, I mean, I've considered buying Complete Psionics JUST for the Soulbow PRC, but anyhow... Dingdingding! :cookie: Honestly, the Soulbow is pretty much the only thing I *really* liked in CP, between the nerfing of useful powers, feats that reference non-existant psi-like abilities, or everything about Flayerspawn Psychic. The Ebon Saint and Illumine Soul aren't terrible classes, either, though.
gensuke626 07-08-07, 06:05 PM	I'll have to take a better peek into it then. The flayerspawn psychic seems like a good idea on paper, but I didn't really read it. I glanced at the advancement table and thought "Hmm...doesn't seem like you get much..." still, Huzzah for the Scourers! I think I may steal this idea for my games. (And credit you of course, yrogerg)
Syltorian 07-08-07, 06:13 PM	Not bad ideas; given the inspiration, I'm also thinking of making UPD a class skill for Scourers of a certain level: would Flametouched be appropriate for this? I personally never agreed with the entire class-skills business so it's something that I generally disregard in my campaigns. As a result, if I had to keep this distinction, my tendency would be to make it available at fairly low levels, Flametouched or even Journeyman . Regarding the flavour, is this mostly so they can use dorjes and others stuff produced by their group even if they haven't got manifester levels? Otherwise, I don't see them using psionic items created by various other groups. They won't like the Inspired (if they know about them), and are probably even regarding the Kalashtar as demon-possessed... [edit]Actually, after having read the Nemesis feat, it would be pretty much perfect. Would it be B0rken to allow it to apply to all creatures with the (shapeshifter) subtype? I believe that would be fairly powerful. You'd not only get the bonuses against lycanthropes and shifters, but also changelings, doppelgangers, and a good deal of other creatures which they are not focusing on. I would make it 'lycanthrope blooded', or 'moontouched', or something... specifying that this includes shifters and lycanthropes. I'm not entirely sure about these two: I largely see the bitterness and hatred being somewhat one-sided at this point: to most Templars, the Scourers would be pretty much off the map, after their defeat at Thaolist. Thaliost is still a trouble spot, though. I believe the final conquest is about 50 years past, but Thrane is still trying to keep the city under control. It is the most likely place for the war to flare up again. Scourers, despite their small size, are dangerous for the peace process, and as such a danger not to be underestimated, especially with someone as paranoid as High Cardinal Krozen around. Especially since that man is going to distrust the weird abilities of the Scourers. Thrane will most likely prefer to over-react rather than ignore a group that could cause trouble in this city. As moderate as my Thrane is in general, Thaliost, and everything connected to it, is where you get the persecutions, martial law and despair. Mostly, the government is simply panicking whenever that city is mentioned. I'm getting your point about it not being worth a 'duty' though, and not a major enough point of their background. But I'd still think that Thrane will have files on some of those people, and arrest them as soon as they catch them. Probably the Sentinel Marshals too, for being a potential danger to the Peace (and Aundair might even be "obliged" to collaborate by the Thronehold Accords to deliver wartime criminals, although they wouldn't put much effort into that, obviously).
yrogerg 07-08-07, 06:38 PM	I personally never agreed with the entire class-skills business so it's something that I generally disregard in my campaigns. As a result, if I had to keep this distinction, my tendency would be to make it available at fairly low levels, Flametouched or even Journeyman . Regarding the flavour, is this mostly so they can use dorjes and others stuff produced by their group even if they haven't got manifester levels? Otherwise, I don't see them using psionic items created by various other groups. They won't like the Inspired (if they know about them), and are probably even regarding the Kalashtar as demon-possessed... Exactly. It would be mainly so that they could use self-produced Psionic Items despite their lack of Manifester Levels (we're going to hand-wave the issue of exactly how they made them, of course). I believe that would be fairly powerful. You'd not only get the bonuses against lycanthropes and shifters, but also changelings, doppelgangers, and a good deal of other creatures which they are not focusing on. I would make it 'lycanthrope blooded', or 'moontouched', or something... specifying that this includes shifters and lycanthropes. True. The big problem is that it includes an entire valid target in Humanoid (shapeshifter), even if Monstrous Humanoid (shapeshifter) is itself only part of a favored enemy. Thaliost is still a trouble spot, though. I believe the final conquest is about 50 years past, but Thrane is still trying to keep the city under control. It is the most likely place for the war to flare up again. Scourers, despite their small size, are dangerous for the peace process, and as such a danger not to be underestimated, especially with someone as paranoid as High Cardinal Krozen around. Especially since that man is going to distrust the weird abilities of the Scourers. Thrane will most likely prefer to over-react rather than ignore a group that could cause trouble in this city. As moderate as my Thrane is in general, Thaliost, and everything connected to it, is where you get the persecutions, martial law and despair. Mostly, the government is simply panicking whenever that city is mentioned. I'm getting your point about it not being worth a 'duty' though, and not a major enough point of their background. But I'd still think that Thrane will have files on some of those people, and arrest them as soon as they catch them. Probably the Sentinel Marshals too, for being a potential danger to the Peace (and Aundair might even be "obliged" to collaborate by the Thronehold Accords to deliver wartime criminals, although they wouldn't put much effort into that, obviously). Sure. I'd probably include this all in that -10 to diplomacy, but maybe scale up the penalty as a secondary Duty. It's tough, because I don't want to make Thrane wholly off-limits to them, but I do agree that making things signifincantly more difficult wouldn't be a bad idea.
yrogerg 07-08-07, 07:01 PM	I'll have to take a better peek into it then. The flayerspawn psychic seems like a good idea on paper, but I didn't really read it. I glanced at the advancement table and thought "Hmm...doesn't seem like you get much..." still, Huzzah for the Scourers! I think I may steal this idea for my games. (And credit you of course, yrogerg) The Flayerspawn Psychic seems like an okay idea,* until you realize that the Illithid Blast feat/class feature says that you can "channel power points into a mind blast". The class feature even says that you do so in the manner of the feat, but the feat fails to tell you how many power points you channel, or what the effect of channeling power points actually is. Given the fact that they're building a PrC around it, they should have probably finished writing the feat. *though I have a personal gripe about Illithid Heritage, given every bit of previous flavor about Illithid life cycles
Syltorian 07-09-07, 02:55 AM	True. The big problem is that it includes an entire valid target in Humanoid (shapeshifter), even if Monstrous Humanoid (shapeshifter) is itself only part of a favored enemy. I'm not quite sure I am following this. Do you mean that Favoured Enemy (Humanoid: shapeshifter) has to be chosen since the rules don't allow Humanoid without a subgroup as FE, while Favoured Enemy (Monstrous Humanoid) includes everything, shapeshifter or not? If so, I still believe that making Nemesis apply to Shapeshifter in general is not appropriate, for balance reasons as well as for flavour ones. The SRD alone has the following shapechangers in addition to the various Lycanthropes: Aranea, Barghest, Doppelganger, Mimic and Phasm. Flavour-wise, I don't see them being naturally good at identifying what chest is a Mimic, or hitting a Phasm. They aren't trained against aberrations; they focus mostly on Lycanthropes and perhaps fiends. Araneas are probably mostly unknown, and Barghests, while fiends, are not native to Eberron and thus too rare to matter much: they are Mabran. Changelings too have suffered some social outcasting, but no crusade yet. They are not against shapechangers in general, after all: they are were-hunters, with some side-business in demons. Balance-wise, I don't like it that one ability makes them effective against two of the races. Shifters, okay, that's their point, and part of that race's history as well. But changelings? It's going to be much more damaging to the changeling, too. Shifters are shapechangers, but they can be recognised anyway. Make it impossible for a changeling to disguise himself (and Nemesis has no counter, as far as I know), and you strip him of everything that makes his him what he is, and most of what would make a player want to play one. Sure. I'd probably include this all in that -10 to diplomacy, but maybe scale up the penalty as a secondary Duty. It's tough, because I don't want to make Thrane wholly off-limits to them, but I do agree that making things signifincantly more difficult wouldn't be a bad idea. True, it would be easy to include it in the -10 to diplomacy. Good thinking. But it could be restated later on: it is likely that Thrane hasn't got files on lower-ranking members, so these won't be arrested on sight and identification. Many of the leaders however will be known, however, and would have to take greater care. I don't think Thrane should be off-limits: they just need to be more careful, disguise themselves better, or use underground networks, safe-houses, and the like. If you are going with Keith Baker's idea that the creation of the Church-State caused an influx of fanatics from other nations, these would be able and ready to help the Scourers in Thrane.