Warforged crafting 24 hours [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged crafting 24 hours [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edark
03-15-07, 08:36 AM I suppose a day of work for most races crafting mundane items carries 8 hours per day.
But since warforged dont need to sleep or eat, can they be working all 24 hours of a day? if this is like this, can be the crafting time for items be reduced? For example, making a sword in one week instead of three.

If this is true, can this method be used also crafting magic items or arcane works in a different way?

thanks!
goblin_pride
03-15-07, 08:52 AM If this is true, can this method be used also crafting magic items or arcane works in a different way?

Assuming you don't run out of the needed infusions for the entire project it would be possible. But I would be tempted to point out that some of the tools used in crafting magic items like forges tend to break down when kept superheated for extremely prolonged periods.

I never did like the use of days as a measure of the time used to make magic items, it should've been broken down by the number of hours instead. It would've simplified the crafting of magic items and allowed for a PC to devote an hour here and there to crafting magic items, with completeion taking longer if you don't devote the time in large chunks.
Bluebrush
03-15-07, 09:13 AM It's been suggested that warforged may need to rest in some fashion which prevents them from crafting magical items all day. (Perhaps mental/magical stress?)

The way I'd probably handle it (It's never come up for me) is that WF can make craft checks all day just fine (For three lots of self repairs for instance) but pretty much anyone will feel the strain after spending 8 hours a day bending magic to physical form when making magic items.

(Otherwise, why wouldn't human mages just put in a few extra hours of work every day? It's not as if 10 hour days are completely alien to us.)
Edymnion
03-15-07, 12:38 PM The official rules on the matter is that a WF can still only work for 8 hours a day per mundane object. The WF is free to work on three differant things back to back, as in a sword for 8 hours, a mace for 8 hours, and some armor for 8 hours, but they cannot work on just the sword for 24 hours.

And of course, the limit to only making one magical item at a time still stands.
wolffman007
03-15-07, 04:17 PM myself i would allow them to work 16 hours on a mundane item (cutting the time in half), but the rest would apply per normal, especially magic item creation
Edymnion
03-15-07, 04:57 PM Well, the reasoning behind the ruling is mental fatigue. Just because a WF doesn't get physically tired doesn't mean it doesn't get mentally tired.

Remember, a human could also work on 2 items a day (8 hours each, sleep for 8 hours, wake up and go immediantly back to work), but they can't go for 16 hour stretches either.

If you've ever worked on something that would qualify as crafting, and done so for long periods of time, you know that after so long you just get this mental "I am so sick of doing this" block that just messes everything up, and you have to go do something else for a while to clear your head.
Edark
03-15-07, 07:36 PM Let me make another question:
a character can craft only one magic item at same time, so if I got two magic items wich cost 1000 gp each, can my character make them in just one day? (considering 1 day of work (8 hours) per 1000 gp)
RogueElement
03-15-07, 07:58 PM The official rules on the matter is that a WF can still only work for 8 hours a day per mundane object. The WF is free to work on three differant things back to back, as in a sword for 8 hours, a mace for 8 hours, and some armor for 8 hours, but they cannot work on just the sword for 24 hours.

LOL. WotC has really raised the bar on stupid rules.
Edymnion
03-15-07, 09:16 PM Let me make another question:
a character can craft only one magic item at same time, so if I got two magic items wich cost 1000 gp each, can my character make them in just one day? (considering 1 day of work (8 hours) per 1000 gp)Thats going to depend on how your DM rules "Minimum: 1 Day", if he wants to make that mean 1 day of crafting = 8 hours, or if its a literal 24 hour day.
spell_weaver
03-17-07, 10:57 AM LOL. WotC has really raised the bar on stupid rules.

No, not really.

Warforged arent robots, theyre individuals with minds and weaknesses(just less of them). Warforged would get to bored doing something for more than 8 hours and risk screwing it up. WOTC also needs a way to somewhat balance out 'Forged against the other player races and this doubly difficult because 'Forged are so unlike other races.

Keep in mind that all of the Warforged strengths(ie: slam attack, plating, immunities, fortification) all stem from theyre physiology. They are LIVING constructs, inanimate matter imbued with life, that in my opinon probably stemmed from actual souls.

However ultimatley, its your campaign, its your house rules. So, by all means knock yourself out, but when your 'Forged players start crafting 3 times as many items in the same time, dont say i didnt warn you.
Kreistor2
03-17-07, 03:05 PM If you allow crafting 24/7, then you have a real problem. It's a character balance issue.

In my campaign, there are long stretches between activities. During this time, players can easily craft if they put skill into it.

A good human crafter can make 40+GP/week. If you allow a warforged to work 24/7, then he'll be making 3x the amount of other players at the table. 40GP/week doesn't sound great, but 120GP/week looks a whole lot larger.

I do not allow a Warforged to maintian a greater than 8 hour/day workload of any one type of work. I justify that with several reasons.

The first is the Fatigue rules. If a Warforged walks hard for 9 hours, he takes 1D6 nonlethal damage, but is immune to the fatigue state that is the result of taking that damage. (It's not the other way around... fatigue doesn't cause the damage, the damage causes the fatigue.) I don't view working hard any different from walking hard. Standing at the smith for 9 hours causes the fatigue check.

The second is boredom. Warforged are not described as automatons, and shouldn't be thought of as robots. They get bored. To maintain interest in your work, which is needed for crafting but not as much for something liek standing and watching a machine like in the industrial revolution), you need to not get bored. So, you don't get more than 8 hours at any one task.

The third reason is "social interaction". If you allow a character to work 24/7, then that character has no time to interact with anyone. present the players with a mystery to solve. When the warforged asks, "I want to go down and see the guy at the pub that is involved with the black market." Your answer is, "You don't know anyone. You sit in a forge all day and never interact with society. You're lost on this one." Sequestering the character should have negative repercussions. Play those up. If you want to know people, you need to spend time getting to know people.

And the last reason comes from society's inability to cope with people that are too different. Warforged already face prejudice because of their capacity during the Last War. A 24/7 Warforged smith is taking the jobs of three men -- those are men with families to feed. The Warforged has no needs to fill with this job. For taking those jobs without a need, the Warforged should be targetted by the unemployed. A Warforged like this can become a rallying cry for the prejudice that is already directed against them.
RogueElement
03-17-07, 04:53 PM The second is boredom. Warforged are not described as automatons, and shouldn't be thought of as robots. They get bored. To maintain interest in your work, which is needed for crafting but not as much for something liek standing and watching a machine like in the industrial revolution), you need to not get bored. So, you don't get more than 8 hours at any one task.
If you weren't Canadian, I'd accuse you of being a lazy Frenchman. Read some articles about the wonderful life of sweat-shop labor around the world. Humans can easily work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for years on end. Up until a hundred years ago, everyone but the aristocracy worked that much. Once the gas lamp was invented, people worked even longer hours.

EDIT: now that I think about it, your idea of using the forced march rules for heavy labor would explain this. Working more than 8 hours on physical labor is certainly painful, so it would make sense that you need some downtime per day to regenerate the non-lethal damage acquired during the extended work hours. I would rather see your forced labor non-lethal damage house rule than the RAW that warforged have to work on 3 different objects if they want to work 24 hours a day.

And the last reason comes from society's inability to cope with people that are too different. Warforged already face prejudice because of their capacity during the Last War. A 24/7 Warforged smith is taking the jobs of three men -- those are men with families to feed. The Warforged has no needs to fill with this job. For taking those jobs without a need, the Warforged should be targetted by the unemployed. A Warforged like this can become a rallying cry for the prejudice that is already directed against them.
They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith.
RogueElement
03-17-07, 05:24 PM No, not really.

Warforged arent robots, theyre individuals with minds and weaknesses(just less of them). Warforged would get to bored doing something for more than 8 hours and risk screwing it up. WOTC also needs a way to somewhat balance out 'Forged against the other player races and this doubly difficult because 'Forged are so unlike other races.

Keep in mind that all of the Warforged strengths(ie: slam attack, plating, immunities, fortification) all stem from theyre physiology. They are LIVING constructs, inanimate matter imbued with life, that in my opinon probably stemmed from actual souls.

However ultimatley, its your campaign, its your house rules. So, by all means knock yourself out, but when your 'Forged players start crafting 3 times as many items in the same time, dont say i didnt warn you.
I was talking about the rule that warforged can't work on the same object for 24 hours but that they can work on 3 different objects over 24 hours. It's completely insane to say you can work 8 hours on a sword, then 8 hours on a shield, then 8 hours on a suit of armor, but you can't work on just the sword for 24 hours.
Beleriphon
03-17-07, 06:27 PM They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith.

Not really, because House Cannith is the one that employs a good number of tradesmen. The thing you have to keep in mind is that Warforged already are generally disliked. Add in something else to make people dislike them and it only gets worse.

In many ways its similar to using illegal immigrant labour. Why should I hire one legal worker when three illegals will work for the same cost twice as hard? From an employer stand point there isn't one, except for the illegal bit, but the potential legal worker gets angry about the illegals because he doesn't have a job he otherwise would have had.
RogueElement
03-17-07, 07:08 PM Not really, because House Cannith is the one that employs a good number of tradesmen. The thing you have to keep in mind is that Warforged already are generally disliked. Add in something else to make people dislike them and it only gets worse.

In many ways its similar to using illegal immigrant labour. Why should I hire one legal worker when three illegals will work for the same cost twice as hard? From an employer stand point there isn't one, except for the illegal bit, but the potential legal worker gets angry about the illegals because he doesn't have a job he otherwise would have had.

"Dey took my jaawwb!"

You make a good point about the warforged already being disliked. Furthermore, House Cannith has the monopoly on manufacturing and repair, so people are going to go after the easier targets: the warforged. Occationally I meet people like that in the IT industry: rather than upgrading their skills or boycotting companies that outsource, they just decide to hate Indians and Russians.

But my point was that that's no reason to create a rule that warforged can't craft for 24 hours a day.
Dragom
03-17-07, 09:03 PM If you weren't Canadian, I'd accuse you of being a lazy Frenchman. Read some articles about the wonderful life of sweat-shop labor around the world. Humans can easily work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for years on end. Up until a hundred years ago, everyone but the aristocracy worked that much. Once the gas lamp was invented, people worked even longer hours.

Remeber also that we didn't used to get people living so long. I'm pretty sure a normal life expectantsy for a 12/6 worker would cap around 40 even with decent medical care.

And the idea of taking Saturday off is older then gunpowder.
Nived
03-18-07, 01:16 AM Having just worked a 10 hour overtime shift (Yeah on a Saturday) doing purely mental work... yeah the quality of the work goes down after a certain point just from mental fatigue.

According to the 'rules' this is true for all sentient beings, this includes Warforged. Even though they wont physically get tired, they get dang bored, and you just can't focus anymore and you end up staring at your work for awhile without even realizing you stopped and you just want the shift to end so you can do anything else....

er...

yeah...

Warforged can only craft for 8 hours by the rules.
Kreistor2
03-18-07, 12:08 PM They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith.

Anyone can, at least theoretically, learn to be a Wizard, Sorcerer, Aertificer, or Cleric. But you're right. They could.

Historically, they have. How easy it was for the French King to decide that the Knights Templar needed to be wiped out. He just wanted their money (the Knights Templar were the first true bank), but he was able to manipulate public thought to turn them into witches and demon worshippers.

So, yes, if you want to extend those ideas to a class or a type of person, go ahead. Prejudice is an equal opportunity destroyer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edark 03-15-07, 08:36 AM	I suppose a day of work for most races crafting mundane items carries 8 hours per day. But since warforged dont need to sleep or eat, can they be working all 24 hours of a day? if this is like this, can be the crafting time for items be reduced? For example, making a sword in one week instead of three. If this is true, can this method be used also crafting magic items or arcane works in a different way? thanks!
goblin_pride 03-15-07, 08:52 AM	If this is true, can this method be used also crafting magic items or arcane works in a different way? Assuming you don't run out of the needed infusions for the entire project it would be possible. But I would be tempted to point out that some of the tools used in crafting magic items like forges tend to break down when kept superheated for extremely prolonged periods. I never did like the use of days as a measure of the time used to make magic items, it should've been broken down by the number of hours instead. It would've simplified the crafting of magic items and allowed for a PC to devote an hour here and there to crafting magic items, with completeion taking longer if you don't devote the time in large chunks.
Bluebrush 03-15-07, 09:13 AM	It's been suggested that warforged may need to rest in some fashion which prevents them from crafting magical items all day. (Perhaps mental/magical stress?) The way I'd probably handle it (It's never come up for me) is that WF can make craft checks all day just fine (For three lots of self repairs for instance) but pretty much anyone will feel the strain after spending 8 hours a day bending magic to physical form when making magic items. (Otherwise, why wouldn't human mages just put in a few extra hours of work every day? It's not as if 10 hour days are completely alien to us.)
Edymnion 03-15-07, 12:38 PM	The official rules on the matter is that a WF can still only work for 8 hours a day per mundane object. The WF is free to work on three differant things back to back, as in a sword for 8 hours, a mace for 8 hours, and some armor for 8 hours, but they cannot work on just the sword for 24 hours. And of course, the limit to only making one magical item at a time still stands.
wolffman007 03-15-07, 04:17 PM	myself i would allow them to work 16 hours on a mundane item (cutting the time in half), but the rest would apply per normal, especially magic item creation
Edymnion 03-15-07, 04:57 PM	Well, the reasoning behind the ruling is mental fatigue. Just because a WF doesn't get physically tired doesn't mean it doesn't get mentally tired. Remember, a human could also work on 2 items a day (8 hours each, sleep for 8 hours, wake up and go immediantly back to work), but they can't go for 16 hour stretches either. If you've ever worked on something that would qualify as crafting, and done so for long periods of time, you know that after so long you just get this mental "I am so sick of doing this" block that just messes everything up, and you have to go do something else for a while to clear your head.
Edark 03-15-07, 07:36 PM	Let me make another question: a character can craft only one magic item at same time, so if I got two magic items wich cost 1000 gp each, can my character make them in just one day? (considering 1 day of work (8 hours) per 1000 gp)
RogueElement 03-15-07, 07:58 PM	The official rules on the matter is that a WF can still only work for 8 hours a day per mundane object. The WF is free to work on three differant things back to back, as in a sword for 8 hours, a mace for 8 hours, and some armor for 8 hours, but they cannot work on just the sword for 24 hours. LOL. WotC has really raised the bar on stupid rules.
Edymnion 03-15-07, 09:16 PM	Let me make another question: a character can craft only one magic item at same time, so if I got two magic items wich cost 1000 gp each, can my character make them in just one day? (considering 1 day of work (8 hours) per 1000 gp)Thats going to depend on how your DM rules "Minimum: 1 Day", if he wants to make that mean 1 day of crafting = 8 hours, or if its a literal 24 hour day.
spell_weaver 03-17-07, 10:57 AM	LOL. WotC has really raised the bar on stupid rules. No, not really. Warforged arent robots, theyre individuals with minds and weaknesses(just less of them). Warforged would get to bored doing something for more than 8 hours and risk screwing it up. WOTC also needs a way to somewhat balance out 'Forged against the other player races and this doubly difficult because 'Forged are so unlike other races. Keep in mind that all of the Warforged strengths(ie: slam attack, plating, immunities, fortification) all stem from theyre physiology. They are LIVING constructs, inanimate matter imbued with life, that in my opinon probably stemmed from actual souls. However ultimatley, its your campaign, its your house rules. So, by all means knock yourself out, but when your 'Forged players start crafting 3 times as many items in the same time, dont say i didnt warn you.
Kreistor2 03-17-07, 03:05 PM	If you allow crafting 24/7, then you have a real problem. It's a character balance issue. In my campaign, there are long stretches between activities. During this time, players can easily craft if they put skill into it. A good human crafter can make 40+GP/week. If you allow a warforged to work 24/7, then he'll be making 3x the amount of other players at the table. 40GP/week doesn't sound great, but 120GP/week looks a whole lot larger. I do not allow a Warforged to maintian a greater than 8 hour/day workload of any one type of work. I justify that with several reasons. The first is the Fatigue rules. If a Warforged walks hard for 9 hours, he takes 1D6 nonlethal damage, but is immune to the fatigue state that is the result of taking that damage. (It's not the other way around... fatigue doesn't cause the damage, the damage causes the fatigue.) I don't view working hard any different from walking hard. Standing at the smith for 9 hours causes the fatigue check. The second is boredom. Warforged are not described as automatons, and shouldn't be thought of as robots. They get bored. To maintain interest in your work, which is needed for crafting but not as much for something liek standing and watching a machine like in the industrial revolution), you need to not get bored. So, you don't get more than 8 hours at any one task. The third reason is "social interaction". If you allow a character to work 24/7, then that character has no time to interact with anyone. present the players with a mystery to solve. When the warforged asks, "I want to go down and see the guy at the pub that is involved with the black market." Your answer is, "You don't know anyone. You sit in a forge all day and never interact with society. You're lost on this one." Sequestering the character should have negative repercussions. Play those up. If you want to know people, you need to spend time getting to know people. And the last reason comes from society's inability to cope with people that are too different. Warforged already face prejudice because of their capacity during the Last War. A 24/7 Warforged smith is taking the jobs of three men -- those are men with families to feed. The Warforged has no needs to fill with this job. For taking those jobs without a need, the Warforged should be targetted by the unemployed. A Warforged like this can become a rallying cry for the prejudice that is already directed against them.
RogueElement 03-17-07, 04:53 PM	The second is boredom. Warforged are not described as automatons, and shouldn't be thought of as robots. They get bored. To maintain interest in your work, which is needed for crafting but not as much for something liek standing and watching a machine like in the industrial revolution), you need to not get bored. So, you don't get more than 8 hours at any one task. If you weren't Canadian, I'd accuse you of being a lazy Frenchman. Read some articles about the wonderful life of sweat-shop labor around the world. Humans can easily work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for years on end. Up until a hundred years ago, everyone but the aristocracy worked that much. Once the gas lamp was invented, people worked even longer hours. EDIT: now that I think about it, your idea of using the forced march rules for heavy labor would explain this. Working more than 8 hours on physical labor is certainly painful, so it would make sense that you need some downtime per day to regenerate the non-lethal damage acquired during the extended work hours. I would rather see your forced labor non-lethal damage house rule than the RAW that warforged have to work on 3 different objects if they want to work 24 hours a day. And the last reason comes from society's inability to cope with people that are too different. Warforged already face prejudice because of their capacity during the Last War. A 24/7 Warforged smith is taking the jobs of three men -- those are men with families to feed. The Warforged has no needs to fill with this job. For taking those jobs without a need, the Warforged should be targetted by the unemployed. A Warforged like this can become a rallying cry for the prejudice that is already directed against them. They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith.
RogueElement 03-17-07, 05:24 PM	No, not really. Warforged arent robots, theyre individuals with minds and weaknesses(just less of them). Warforged would get to bored doing something for more than 8 hours and risk screwing it up. WOTC also needs a way to somewhat balance out 'Forged against the other player races and this doubly difficult because 'Forged are so unlike other races. Keep in mind that all of the Warforged strengths(ie: slam attack, plating, immunities, fortification) all stem from theyre physiology. They are LIVING constructs, inanimate matter imbued with life, that in my opinon probably stemmed from actual souls. However ultimatley, its your campaign, its your house rules. So, by all means knock yourself out, but when your 'Forged players start crafting 3 times as many items in the same time, dont say i didnt warn you. I was talking about the rule that warforged can't work on the same object for 24 hours but that they can work on 3 different objects over 24 hours. It's completely insane to say you can work 8 hours on a sword, then 8 hours on a shield, then 8 hours on a suit of armor, but you can't work on just the sword for 24 hours.
Beleriphon 03-17-07, 06:27 PM	They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith. Not really, because House Cannith is the one that employs a good number of tradesmen. The thing you have to keep in mind is that Warforged already are generally disliked. Add in something else to make people dislike them and it only gets worse. In many ways its similar to using illegal immigrant labour. Why should I hire one legal worker when three illegals will work for the same cost twice as hard? From an employer stand point there isn't one, except for the illegal bit, but the potential legal worker gets angry about the illegals because he doesn't have a job he otherwise would have had.
RogueElement 03-17-07, 07:08 PM	Not really, because House Cannith is the one that employs a good number of tradesmen. The thing you have to keep in mind is that Warforged already are generally disliked. Add in something else to make people dislike them and it only gets worse. In many ways its similar to using illegal immigrant labour. Why should I hire one legal worker when three illegals will work for the same cost twice as hard? From an employer stand point there isn't one, except for the illegal bit, but the potential legal worker gets angry about the illegals because he doesn't have a job he otherwise would have had. "Dey took my jaawwb!" You make a good point about the warforged already being disliked. Furthermore, House Cannith has the monopoly on manufacturing and repair, so people are going to go after the easier targets: the warforged. Occationally I meet people like that in the IT industry: rather than upgrading their skills or boycotting companies that outsource, they just decide to hate Indians and Russians. But my point was that that's no reason to create a rule that warforged can't craft for 24 hours a day.
Dragom 03-17-07, 09:03 PM	If you weren't Canadian, I'd accuse you of being a lazy Frenchman. Read some articles about the wonderful life of sweat-shop labor around the world. Humans can easily work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for years on end. Up until a hundred years ago, everyone but the aristocracy worked that much. Once the gas lamp was invented, people worked even longer hours. Remeber also that we didn't used to get people living so long. I'm pretty sure a normal life expectantsy for a 12/6 worker would cap around 40 even with decent medical care. And the idea of taking Saturday off is older then gunpowder.
Nived 03-18-07, 01:16 AM	Having just worked a 10 hour overtime shift (Yeah on a Saturday) doing purely mental work... yeah the quality of the work goes down after a certain point just from mental fatigue. According to the 'rules' this is true for all sentient beings, this includes Warforged. Even though they wont physically get tired, they get dang bored, and you just can't focus anymore and you end up staring at your work for awhile without even realizing you stopped and you just want the shift to end so you can do anything else.... er... yeah... Warforged can only craft for 8 hours by the rules.
Kreistor2 03-18-07, 12:08 PM	They would also hate Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics, and all of House Cannith. Anyone can, at least theoretically, learn to be a Wizard, Sorcerer, Aertificer, or Cleric. But you're right. They could. Historically, they have. How easy it was for the French King to decide that the Knights Templar needed to be wiped out. He just wanted their money (the Knights Templar were the first true bank), but he was able to manipulate public thought to turn them into witches and demon worshippers. So, yes, if you want to extend those ideas to a class or a type of person, go ahead. Prejudice is an equal opportunity destroyer.