Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashism 11-25-07, 06:44 PM	so as the title says, I have a character whose background involves her being a noble of house ir'Maeglin ( a made up house) anyway long story short she escapes an arranged marriage and flees to become a mercenary prince(ess) like her father before her. She joins up with House Deneith, severing all ties to her old noble house....so here's the question. What would her surname be at this point? She can still "call" herself ir'Maeglin if she wanted to, but by what name would she be known as a part of Deneith? Shes not dragonmarked and has no blood relation to the house (although I suppose I could add in some distant one in the past). Thanks a ton for the help! I'm new to the Eberron world and so far I love it but don't actually have many of the books yet. Thanks again.
Tiarn 11-26-07, 01:08 AM	If you actually belong to one of the houses you put a "d" and an apostrophe so it would be d'Deneith, which is really weird to pronounce but basically means "of House Deneith". That said, it isn't difficult to be affiliated with House Deneith but actually joining and getting the title requires either marriage into the house or many years of trusted service. So it likely won't happen anytime soon. I'd say your character would still go with her normal surname or make up a new one. (Unless, of course, you did add a blood relative, then she'd automatically be d'Deneith)
Alaya_of_Stormhome 11-26-07, 03:04 PM	She can use the name Deneith, but she cannot use the d' prefix unless she actually has the mark. The d' prefix is saved for marked heirs of the house, or members in very high favor. So you'll find people who are affiliated with or who have joined the house without being related by blood using the surname Deneith to show their affliation with the house. For instance, my 'marked character is an heir of House Lyrandar, so she is known as Alaya d'Lyrandar. An unmarked porter who simply works for the house and is not marked uses the surname Lyrandar instead. I hope that helps- it gets a little tricky when trying to navigate the social status of Eberron. Also, if your noble ever marries into the house, she gives up all claim she would have had on her titles, lands, etc. or her spouse gives up all titles and claims to power in House Deneith. A balance of power to keep the D'marked houses in line, I guess.
Ashlock 11-26-07, 04:29 PM	She can use the name Deneith, but she cannot use the d' prefix unless she actually has the mark. The d' prefix is saved for marked heirs of the house, or members in very high favor. More the latter than the former. You can be unmarked and still have the d' prefix. But you've got to be a true member of the house, and have blood ties, I think.
Shady314 11-26-07, 04:54 PM	She joins up with House Deneith, severing all ties to her old noble house....so here's the question. What would her surname be at this point? She can still "call" herself ir'Maeglin It seems you do not understand what "sever all ties" means...
Ashism 11-27-07, 12:33 AM	thanks for the replies everyone, it does indeed get tricky navigating the various social circles of Eberron. I guess she'd gonna call herself a Deneith but otherwise go by just her first name and perhaps some descriptive epitaph It seems you do not understand what "sever all ties" means... actually I do...it doesn't mean she can't use her noble name...her house might not like it but she as a person can do what she wants, if that brings with it reprecussions from either her original house or her adopted house, then all the better. More roleplaying oppurtunities and hooks for my DM ftw!
Shady314 11-27-07, 04:40 AM	actually I do...it doesn't mean she can't use her noble name... That's exactly what it means. Using their name is a tie. She's no longer an ir'Maeglin she's given up the right to that and all the rights that come with it. (Her nobility and all that may entail most notably land) Severing ties means they must give up everything that makes them a part of that. I suppose she could get by with Maeglin. But definitely not ir. her house might not like it but she as a person can do what she wants, ?? What ?? :confused: Now that's just confusing. I thought you asked what she was supposed to call herself. Obviously it would be highly improper of her to use her old name. But obviosuly there's no magical compulsion stopping her. She COULD do whatever she wants. if that brings with it reprecussions from either her original house or her adopted house, then all the better. More roleplaying oppurtunities and hooks for my DM ftw! Now here you admit it would get her in trouble and provide roleplaying hooks. Which was my entire point. She CAN'T call herself ir'Maeglin without causing trouble.... So we agree. :rolleyes:
Hellcow 11-28-07, 12:42 AM	Speaking purely legally: The only way for an outsider to join a house in such a way that he or she is allowed to use the house name would be by marriage or because he's a foundling (an outsider who develops the dragonmark outside the house) adopted back into the house. A mercenary with no blood tie to Deneith may hold rank in the Blademark or Defender's Guild, but that doesn't give her the right to the Deneith name or require her to rescind her old name; she is a mercenary serving the guild of mercenaries, not a member of the family that forms the heart of that guild. Now, if she does join the family - whether by adoption or marriage - the Korth Edicts come into effect: The edicts further specified that no member of the aristocracy could be bound to a member of a dragonmarked house in marriage without on of the two giving up all heritage and rights. While this only specifies "marriage", it also applies to adoption of foundlings. Under the Korth Edicts, you can't hold a noble title in the Five Nations and count yourself an heir of a dragonmarked house. So as noted, she can call herself whatever she wants if she's not concerned about the consequences. But LEGALLY, she can't use both the Deneith name and her noble name; if she is going to actually legally join House Deneith (again, a completely different thing than simply working FOR the house), she must renounce her old name.
Edymnion 12-06-07, 12:54 PM	Also, just to throw a bit more into the mix, the House name does not replace the family name, it is in addition. When referring to themselves to someone outside of their house, a marked scion would refer to themselves as John d'Whatever. Within the house itself though, there are still distinct family lines, where he would identify himself as John Doe. I suppose the closest modern equivolant would be a woman getting married, and changing her middle name to her maiden name. Jane Doe marries Bob Smith, she would become Jane Doe Smith, but would normally identify herself as Jane Smith. At a family reunion though, she would likely point out that she is originally a Doe.