Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KShaver 01-29-07, 09:23 AM	If I had to beleive what the character tracking is saying, then the blackwheel company seems to have the stingiest payroll officers ever. After completing several missions (BW 1 and 3)my Blackwheel character has advanced in level, but has received a pitiful amount of cash, even the faction bonus doesn't put the character even close to what other characters have earned, its well below what any of the other faction 2 or 3 mods alone have been giving. Is this a problem in general, or is my group the only one that seems to be suffering from being underfunded? Sure the level kick will temporarily boost the character the the minimum available at that point, but if the character continues to be underfunded for all their hard work they might just have to leave and join one of the other factions, I hear the CoL is in need of some decent rogues. :P
Woodstock 01-29-07, 11:55 AM	The character tracker shows only what you have earned during the adventures. To calculate the EV you still have to count, besides the value in the character tracker, the starting money, the BWC bonus (50gp x level) and even some story objects. Perhaps this way your rogue gets a better pay. At least my rogue is still interested in working with the BWC!
KShaver 01-29-07, 12:19 PM	The character tracker shows only what you have earned during the adventures. To calculate the EV you still have to count, besides the value in the character tracker, the starting money, the BWC bonus (50gp x level) and even some story objects. Perhaps this way your rogue gets a better pay. At least my rogue is still interested in working with the BWC! Yup, still doesn't add up. My CoS character has after just CoS 2 earned 950g (and is still 1st level), while my Blackwheel character after faction mods 1 and 3 has just 680 earned, add in 2nd level x50gp, no certs modifying cash, and it only comes up to 780 which is still a significantly lower number. It just doesn't make sense, we've completed the missions, even Blackwheel 3 which was very hard for 1st level characters (the module did not scale appropriately for 1st level chars). A blackwheel character should not have to depend on certs and their faction bonus as part of thier EV, those are a bonus for the faction and for perfoming certain activities, which are on top of your EV. They should gain roughly the same EV from completing mods as other factions.
Woodstock 01-29-07, 12:35 PM	It's not problem with the faccion. Perhaps you didn't found everything you should have found, as loot, and your DM reported this. The money earned for each adventure is not the same. I believe the DM can report if you found more or less money than the amount published in the Campaign Settings. As an example, my BWC character, after factions 1 and 2, and Dm's Mark1, had more than 1000 gps in the character tracker.
kiddoc 01-29-07, 10:59 PM	Every faction adventure receives the same amount of gold and XP to award. I can promise you, having written them all--it's all in there. Now, I will give you two hints and a big premise about the Company: Premise: We have high expectations for our recruits. You EXCEED all expectations, or you'll be peeling firefruit. You earn your pay in the BWC--we do this for a living, and we have a reputation to uphold, we're not a bunch of skulking evildoers, snub-nosed bookworms, or goodie-two-shoes religious zealots. We're a company... The Company. :D Hint 1) Very much mucho mas many (get the hint) of BWC awards (meaning XP, gold, story objects, ranks, etc) are tied to the choices you make and the mission parameters you accomplish (and exceed), rather than just the things you kill, or escape from alive. Roleplaying and making well-informed decisions have huge rewards. Hint 2) Don't overlook the power of the "soft" skills. Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Search (or Investigate) can be HUGE. If you aren't making use of those multiple times per session as a party, you're missing something. Good luck!
kiddoc 01-29-07, 11:04 PM	even Blackwheel 3 which was very hard for 1st level characters (the module did not scale appropriately for 1st level chars). Just a side note: BWC was not designed to scale for 1st level characters. In fact, unless some absolutely critical plot mission failures have taken place during EVERY adventure up to that point (BWC 1, BWC 2, DM's Mark 1, and Well of Woe 1, 2, and 3), it's almost 100% impossible to reach that module as a level 1. That's why we stuck: "A 3rd level adventure (scaled for 2nd through 5th level characters)" on the cover. :D That one would be hell for first level characters. Nevertheless after doing: BWC 1 BWC 2 DM's Mark 1 Well of Woe 1 Well of Woe 2 Well of Woe 3 DM's Mark 2 and BWC 3 I have seen some BWC characters absolutely kicking the snot out of the level-bump EV, particularly with the BWC gold bonuses. Many thousands of gold to be earned for the adept soldier. ;) Your case sounds so strange though, I might check to make sure the DM was filling out the forms right.
Woodstock 01-30-07, 12:37 AM	Hint 1) Very much mucho mas many (get the hint) of BWC awards (meaning XP, gold, story objects, ranks, etc) are tied to the choices you make and the mission parameters you accomplish (and exceed), rather than just the things you kill, or escape from alive. Roleplaying and making well-informed decisions have huge rewards. Perfect!!! This is the best way to roleplay!!! I just miss some crime scenes to use my investigate feat! On the other side, diplomacy and bluff are my favorites skills!!!
Herrbard 01-30-07, 09:12 PM	Just a side note: BWC was not designed to scale for 1st level characters. In fact, unless some absolutely critical plot mission failures have taken place during EVERY adventure up to that point (BWC 1, BWC 2, DM's Mark 1, and Well of Woe 1, 2, and 3), it's almost 100% impossible to reach that module as a level 1. That's why we stuck: "A 3rd level adventure (scaled for 2nd through 5th level characters)" on the cover. :D That one would be hell for first level characters. Well, having run it for a table of all first level characters, yes, it was hell! It was great fun, though. I scaled some of the things back to make them level appropriate (and they burned a lot of Second Wind cards!). Why were they first level, you ask? (Come on, you know you asked. ;) ) They were all brand new characters. They had never played any Blackwheel before, and this was the only faction mod left between December 31 and January 17. That's not a complaint, just a point of information. (Sgt. Tragar would have my head if I complained. One aim, united! Yes mamm. Right away mamm. I'll get back to prepping mods now, I promise!) :bow:
pedr 01-30-07, 09:45 PM	It's worth noting that in MoH one of the problems was that there weren't always modules available which were scaled to the campaign level. I think the first modules I played were EMH-5 and EMH-6, which our DM had to scale back drastically without any guidance in the mods as they were written for 3rd/4th level characters and the campaign level was 1st. I hope that XE will be structured in such a way that either every module has a tier for brand new characters, or that modules don't retire and only leave higher-level ones available.
kiddoc 01-30-07, 10:20 PM	Drat. Now I was lead to believe that at least one DM's mark was available in that timeframe--which would have been sufficient to advance any character beyond level one. Or at least that was my understanding. If I was mislead there, I might have to bring down the Wrath of Tragar on someone's head. :headexplo
Marcia_S 01-30-07, 11:49 PM	We played BwC 3 with mostly 2nd and 3rd level characters (1 or 2 first timers) and it was an over-the-top death trap. The GM used the lowest level encounters in the mod, but it was still way too much for a group that wasn't all 3rd with some 4th level characters. I'm sure that one of the reasons that we got so much less gold was that, even making the "right" choices, we couldn't succeed at the combat encounters and had to run from some of them (leaving loot behind, undoubtedly).
Randall Montgomery 01-31-07, 11:26 AM	My group of 2-3 level characters barely managed to survive BW3, thanks to a cleric with extra turning and an unbelievably hot d20 which rolled about 6 18+ rolls for turning checks. However, due to some issues which I've already spoken to Kiddoc about (thanks for the quick and considerate reply, btw), we ended up only getting about half XP/GP despite essentially completing the mod successfully. Despite this drawback, it was still one of my favorite Xendrik mods so far, and I'm really enjoying being part of the company. Now that Alexia will be hitting 4th level, she'll be looking forward to the perks of being a Dragonmarked Heir in the Company. :cool: I'm still waiting for BW3 to be reported, so I'm not sure what my overall XP/GP is compared to the other factions, but as of the end of December, Alexia was only slightly ahead of my other characters, thanks to playing through Well of Woe. She should have been farther ahead, but we didn't get max in Well, and BW2 was plagued by some of the worst dice rolling our group has seen in nearly 3 years of play (I can only imagine it would've been a TPK if we had actually decided to help the Codex guys, given how things had gone prior to that). Still, I'm sure the future will be very bright indeed! Joe Stalsberg AKA Dragoon Alexia d'Tharashk, Blackwheel Company
Rewth 01-31-07, 01:01 PM	the only issue we had with BW3 is that if you go down one path, you come to the end of the module which triggers events that prevent you from be able to go elsewhere. and unfortunately the description at that point leads you very well in that direction as well. we ended up missing half the mod and a large chunk of the gold/xp because of it. course we also only barely managed to escape alive. had we pursued other routes i have no doubt it would have ended with a character death somewhere. in the end, after playing BW 1 and 3 our characters had a whopping 530 EV.
KShaver 01-31-07, 01:06 PM	Just a side note: BWC was not designed to scale for 1st level characters. In fact, unless some absolutely critical plot mission failures have taken place during EVERY adventure up to that point (BWC 1, BWC 2, DM's Mark 1, and Well of Woe 1, 2, and 3), it's almost 100% impossible to reach that module as a level 1. That's why we stuck: "A 3rd level adventure (scaled for 2nd through 5th level characters)" on the cover. :D That one would be hell for first level characters. Nevertheless after doing: BWC 1 BWC 2 DM's Mark 1 Well of Woe 1 Well of Woe 2 Well of Woe 3 DM's Mark 2 and BWC 3 We completed BWC 1 before BWC 3. A lot of our XE games were crammed into early January, making BWC 2 not available. Everyone was busy with the holidays or other at the end of the year and we did not get a chance to play all the mods and all the DMs marks. I ran Well of Woe for our group the week after we played BWC 3, a couple of the players did use their BWC characters, but even if it was played beforehand it would have only been a couple of characters at 2 or above. The mods seem to be written assuming the players have been in all the previous faction mods, all the DMs marks, as well as the the multi-faction adventures. In reality it is impossible for a group of people running several factions to have every character playing in every mod (Just by the limitation on the multi-faction mods). Then, if those players also are playing several other games at the same time such as LGCS and a couple of home games, then they just aren't going to have time to play in every available mod. Our groups actual play looked something like this: CoS 1 CoS DMs Mark 1 CoL 1 CC 1 BWC 1 CoS 2 CoL 2 CC 2 CoL 3 CC 3(? Can't remember if this was ran) BWC 3 WoW 1/3 WoW 2/3 WoW 3/3 In reality the games should be written with a scaling for the minimum level equal to the current level bump, as people are going to be joining the campaign at all sorts of odd times and aren't necessarily going to have the chance to play in every available mod up to that point. While others like ourselves simply don't have time to invest in every mod, yet we play what we can be cause we like the playstyle of the campaign.
KShaver 01-31-07, 01:14 PM	the only issue we had with BW3 is that if you go down one path, you come to the end of the module which triggers events that prevent you from be able to go elsewhere. and unfortunately the description at that point leads you very well in that direction as well.... We did similar, but did some sidework first, then after comparing our limited time (we rested when we had to) to our meager supply of consumables (all being 1st of course) we had to hurry up and go for the finish...which still took one brief retreat, all our remaining consumables, and some sneaking/charging back in. in the end, after playing BW 1 and 3 our characters had a whopping 530 EV. Yikes, thats even worse that what we got from the two.
Randall Montgomery 01-31-07, 01:17 PM	the only issue we had with BW3 is that if you go down one path, you come to the end of the module which triggers events that prevent you from be able to go elsewhere. and unfortunately the description at that point leads you very well in that direction as well. we ended up missing half the mod and a large chunk of the gold/xp because of it. course we also only barely managed to escape alive. had we pursued other routes i have no doubt it would have ended with a character death somewhere. This was exactly what happened with our group, and I felt it was enough of a problem that I PMed Kiddoc about it. The idea was that you were supposed to find d'Tharashk earlier in the dungeon, through flavor text that would lead you in the right direction. He was 6th level, and would help you in the final battle (assuming you didn't kill him, as he'd been turned into a ghoul). I'm confident that Kiddoc understood my concerns, and while we may have similar non-linear modules with end encounters that preclude going back, there should be some stronger indicators to help us hit things in more-or-less the right order. On a more positive note, I absolutely loved the HALO jump at the beginning of the mod. I was really excited about the story object as well, both because Alexia is all about rank and commendations, and because it sounds like we'll be seeing more jumps in the future! P.S. The last of my modules have now been entered, and with Alexia playing all available mods except DMs Mark 3 and Mere of Shattered Souls, she ended up at 3rd level with 4150 GP. Could've been better, but still not too bad.
kiddoc 01-31-07, 02:06 PM	This was exactly what happened with our group, and I felt it was enough of a problem that I PMed Kiddoc about it. The idea was that you were supposed to find d'Tharashk earlier in the dungeon, through flavor text that would lead you in the right direction. He was 6th level, and would help you in the final battle (assuming you didn't kill him, as he'd been turned into a ghoul). I'm confident that Kiddoc understood my concerns, and while we may have similar non-linear modules with end encounters that preclude going back, there should be some stronger indicators to help us hit things in more-or-less the right order. On a more positive note, I absolutely loved the HALO jump at the beginning of the mod. I was really excited about the story object as well, both because Alexia is all about rank and commendations, and because it sounds like we'll be seeing more jumps in the future! P.S. The last of my modules have now been entered, and with Alexia playing all available mods except DMs Mark 3 and Mere of Shattered Souls, she ended up at 3rd level with 4150 GP. Could've been better, but still not too bad. I agree with that concern, and share it as well. Believe me, when you pour your lifeblood into writing a mod, you want it to be run as intended. Obviously I had taken some things for granted as a DM running games continuously. This will be more clear in the future, that I promise. :D As for the scheduling, not to punt here, but that's an RPGA HQ thing. I'm writing my modules as one continuous storyline. The idea is that you won't need the earlier mods to play, but if you have them, things will be much more interesting (and perhaps easier). I wish RPGA HQ would have corrected the schedule issues earlier, particularly after we got dumped on timewise with our Content Manager (in charge of XE) quitting one month into the campaign's launch. You can be sure that the factionmasters WANT their adventures played by as many people as possible, and we sure as hell want you to understand the story that we're all weaving together. We are lobbying HQ as hard as possible to make some positive changes in the way the windows work, but we're also going to stick to our promise to deliver the best story and experience we can to you. We'll try our best to balance both, but the story and our own craftsmanship obligations to those players at the table comes first. Again, we're doing as much as we can, but some things are legitimately out of our hands.
Butterface 01-31-07, 02:47 PM	I run BWC for my home group, and I took an artistic liberty with Mod 3. I put an illusory wall in the entrance to the end chambers, pretty much blocking the party from going to the end of the mod until they met with Velrith. Then, they would have him use his dragonmark to track the shard, or if he was embracing his ghoul side, he would've mindlessly plunged through the illusionary wall he could not see (leading the party to the end encounters), or if the party had killed him, the wall's duration would've expired. The idea being that the end boss was attempting to block entry until he could complete his preparations. My group found Velrith, convinced him to embrace his faltering humanity, and proceeded forward to victory. My group had little problems completing this mod successfully (although I came close to killing two PCs, one with a trap, the other by strength damage). The final encounter, the party cleric turned THE ENTIRE room of undead, even factoring the +4 turn resistance. As an official RPGA GM, I'm probably not supposed to tinker with mods like that, but I had a good feeling that my group was going to completely bypass some very well-written content, and I wasn't about to let that happen. IMO the Roleplaying encounter with the House Tharashk former golden-boy was the high point of the mod (although damn, the MAAD was awesome too!).
Cromag 02-05-07, 12:59 AM	I'm going to put in another vote for scaling adventures to the lowest level that can join. which as I understand is level 4 after the new level bump. You never know when you're going to have mostly new players and want to get them in on the action, as far as I understand that's the whole point of a level bump; The faction masters can put in cool new challenges that anyone can play with. As I side note, I also did BWC 3 with every player level 1 (and you're right Kiddoc it was a death trap). I am not saying you are to blame as the same thing was done in CoL 3 which I ran and almost obliterated the (mostly) level 1 party even after scaling down below what was listed for EL2. This needs to be done for all of the adventures. As one last note the cash available in the BWC faction seems exceptionally low, I have played or run all of the factions as it seems to end with the party getting ~1/2 the EV the other factions after a succesful completion. All of the groups I have seen have made extensive use of the soft skills -search/diplomacy/bluff etc so that does not appear to be the case. I am not being specific as I do not know if you still consider further info on retired mods spoilers.
Madfox11 02-08-07, 11:35 AM	Nevertheless after doing: BWC 1 BWC 2 DM's Mark 1 Well of Woe 1 Well of Woe 2 Well of Woe 3 DM's Mark 2 and BWC 3 I wouldn't count on people playing the Expeditions with a particular faction PC. I also wouldn't count on everybody playing the DM's Marks. I am having difficulties enough finding players and DMs for the regular adventures, let alone finding one with the time to write an adventure of their own.
kiddoc 02-08-07, 12:02 PM	I wouldn't count on people playing the Expeditions with a particular faction PC. I also wouldn't count on everybody playing the DM's Marks. I am having difficulties enough finding players and DMs for the regular adventures, let alone finding one with the time to write an adventure of their own. Understandable, I was just pointing out the possibilities that each faction (including the BWC) had for earning money and XP. I certainly don't count on players playing in them (that's why we have a level bump after all), but for anyone that wants to be ahead of the curve, there are a LOT of potential options. :D If you're having trouble finding games, I know a number of folks that frequent these boards that play online. That may help you to fill in the DM's Marks at least.
Madfox11 02-09-07, 04:45 AM	Perhaps, but to be honest, I have a strong dislike for on-line games and not only because of some bad experiences with DMs and players. The medium is simply too slow and chaotic, and there is something missing that makes table-top games so fun ;) My remark btw was not as much aimed at that you expacted that each player would play all adventures, but that you assumed a specific level in an adventure and seemed to say in a round-about way that a player should not complain about it because it would have not been problematic if he had played all. Personally I am looking forward at playing a couple of Xen'drik adventures at DDXP and giving some of my character ideas some play-time ;)