Gnolls, LA and racial HD [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gnolls, LA and racial HD [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ispq
09-29-06, 08:29 PM Do Gnolls begin play with 2 racial HD? Nothing in the campaign standards document seems to prohibit this. It does however, strike me as overpowered compared with everyone else. If they do not begin play with their two racial HD, is there a link to this variant gnoll write up with no racial HD?
Kelvane
09-29-06, 08:34 PM They do not.They gain +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Chr. They do nt get the racial HD,feats or skill points.
ispq
09-29-06, 08:37 PM Okay, which document states that?
Kelvane
09-29-06, 08:56 PM I forgot the +1 nat armor bonus and the darkvision 60 ft. It is not in a document but will be in the new C.S.. It was answered in these forums by a Factionmaster.There was a thread at one time on how Gnolls worked, I don't know what happened to it. I'm sure a factionmaster will post shortly, they have been very good about reading and answering posts on these boards.
kiddoc
09-30-06, 02:08 AM I forgot the +1 nat armor bonus and the darkvision 60 ft. It is not in a document but will be in the new C.S.. It was answered in these forums by a Factionmaster.There was a thread at one time on how Gnolls worked, I don't know what happened to it. I'm sure a factionmaster will post shortly, they have been very good about reading and answering posts on these boards.

This is correct. The current Campaign Standard states that Gnolls are a "Level 1 character" at the start of the campaign. That IS going to be clarified to include "Level 1 in EACH and EVERY way" except experience. It's more of a template than it is a level adjustment. No racial HD, no skill points, no extra expansion slots, no extra feats.

Also, all gnolls in the BWC will be required to speak common. You must be able to to both give and receive orders.
ispq
09-30-06, 08:18 AM So no racial HD for gnolls, but currently no campaign document clarifies this.

I think they should create a custom player character race gnoll entry in the campaign standards document laid out like a player's handbook race showing no racial hit dice. Otherwise you cannot tell from reading the documents that in this case gnolls have no racial hit dice. I wasn't able to find any reference in the printed D&D and Eberron material about 1 HD gnolls that replace their racial hit die with a character class.

The ruling of gnolls as LA +1 with an ECL of 2 as first level characters makes them game balanced and fair as a player character race. However, since no where in the official campaign document does it state this, and every other reference to gnolls elsewhere in D&D includes their 2 racial hit dice, Xen'drik Expeditions makes it sound like you can play a gnoll and get the 2 racial hit dice without incurring an ECL penalty for them. I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice.
Herrbard
09-30-06, 10:03 AM I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice.
And as GM it will be your job to inform them of their mistake. :D

I did this repeatedly at GenCon (10 tables worth) and for a couple local games. As our erstwhile factionmaster (kiddoc, although for some reason he did not identify himself as such with his previous post :P ) noted, this issue has been clarified for a while, now. The new Campaign Standards should be out shortly, and everything will be clear. Just let everyone know that all LA +1 races work this way. (Aasimar, teifling, gnoll, drow, etc.)
kiddoc
09-30-06, 11:49 AM So no racial HD for gnolls, but currently no campaign document clarifies this.

I think they should create a custom player character race gnoll entry in the campaign standards document laid out like a player's handbook race showing no racial hit dice. Otherwise you cannot tell from reading the documents that in this case gnolls have no racial hit dice. I wasn't able to find any reference in the printed D&D and Eberron material about 1 HD gnolls that replace their racial hit die with a character class.

The ruling of gnolls as LA +1 with an ECL of 2 as first level characters makes them game balanced and fair as a player character race. However, since no where in the official campaign document does it state this, and every other reference to gnolls elsewhere in D&D includes their 2 racial hit dice, Xen'drik Expeditions makes it sound like you can play a gnoll and get the 2 racial hit dice without incurring an ECL penalty for them. I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice.

I absolutely, 100% assure you that the new campaign standards, sitting in my hands, make this crystal clear. Hopefully we'll be able to release these for public review within a week or so. Still a couple of sections that need additional content. More soon!
Gurrangatch
10-01-06, 01:44 AM Are gnolls in the campaign setting going to lose their racial hit dice as well? If gnolls are encountered in adventures will they be the standard variety or the PC variety?
ispq
10-01-06, 07:48 AM I would imagine that any Gnolls encountered as a course of any Xen'drik Expeditions will be modeled after a normal Monster Manual Gnoll. Double standards are a standard in D&D, which is why a 2 HD Gnoll is CR 1 and a 2 HD Gnome Fighter is CR 2.
Errean
10-04-06, 12:26 AM I am far more afraid of the gnome. +4 size bonus to hide, only PHB race with spell-like abilitys, their beady little eyes... and don't forget the forest variety; another +4 racial bonus to hide that goes up to a +8 in forest, with no level adjustment. That means that you're looking at a 2nd level gnome rogue with a +21 to hide in forested areas, assuming an 18 Dex and no armor check penalty.

God, I hate gnomes.
The_Newborn
10-10-06, 02:06 AM I don't see why they wouldn't use the gnoll class progression from races of the wild like LG did with centaur in the Bright Sands series.
Butterface
10-10-06, 09:34 AM I absolutely, 100% assure you that the new campaign standards, sitting in my hands, make this crystal clear. Hopefully we'll be able to release these for public review within a week or so. Still a couple of sections that need additional content. More soon!

Gimme that CS!
Marcus Majarra
10-13-06, 12:44 AM I don't see why they wouldn't use the gnoll class progression from races of the wild like LG did with centaur in the Bright Sands series.
For one, because this would make them unplayable. Gnolls are poor in concept for PCs, according to the Monster Manual stats, if only because they start off with one extra hit die. The 2HD and 1LA penalty really downgrades gnolls a lot, whereas the current ruling brings the gnolls on par with the other LA+1 races that can be played in XenEx: Aasimars, Tieflings, Catfolk.
Lightblade
10-13-06, 09:39 AM whereas the current ruling brings the gnolls on par with the other LA+1 races that can be played in XenEx: Aasimars, Tieflings, Catfolk.

Don't forget the Drow. They're only LA+1 in Xen'drik.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ispq 09-29-06, 08:29 PM	Do Gnolls begin play with 2 racial HD? Nothing in the campaign standards document seems to prohibit this. It does however, strike me as overpowered compared with everyone else. If they do not begin play with their two racial HD, is there a link to this variant gnoll write up with no racial HD?
Kelvane 09-29-06, 08:34 PM	They do not.They gain +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Chr. They do nt get the racial HD,feats or skill points.
ispq 09-29-06, 08:37 PM	Okay, which document states that?
Kelvane 09-29-06, 08:56 PM	I forgot the +1 nat armor bonus and the darkvision 60 ft. It is not in a document but will be in the new C.S.. It was answered in these forums by a Factionmaster.There was a thread at one time on how Gnolls worked, I don't know what happened to it. I'm sure a factionmaster will post shortly, they have been very good about reading and answering posts on these boards.
kiddoc 09-30-06, 02:08 AM	I forgot the +1 nat armor bonus and the darkvision 60 ft. It is not in a document but will be in the new C.S.. It was answered in these forums by a Factionmaster.There was a thread at one time on how Gnolls worked, I don't know what happened to it. I'm sure a factionmaster will post shortly, they have been very good about reading and answering posts on these boards. This is correct. The current Campaign Standard states that Gnolls are a "Level 1 character" at the start of the campaign. That IS going to be clarified to include "Level 1 in EACH and EVERY way" except experience. It's more of a template than it is a level adjustment. No racial HD, no skill points, no extra expansion slots, no extra feats. Also, all gnolls in the BWC will be required to speak common. You must be able to to both give and receive orders.
ispq 09-30-06, 08:18 AM	So no racial HD for gnolls, but currently no campaign document clarifies this. I think they should create a custom player character race gnoll entry in the campaign standards document laid out like a player's handbook race showing no racial hit dice. Otherwise you cannot tell from reading the documents that in this case gnolls have no racial hit dice. I wasn't able to find any reference in the printed D&D and Eberron material about 1 HD gnolls that replace their racial hit die with a character class. The ruling of gnolls as LA +1 with an ECL of 2 as first level characters makes them game balanced and fair as a player character race. However, since no where in the official campaign document does it state this, and every other reference to gnolls elsewhere in D&D includes their 2 racial hit dice, Xen'drik Expeditions makes it sound like you can play a gnoll and get the 2 racial hit dice without incurring an ECL penalty for them. I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice.
Herrbard 09-30-06, 10:03 AM	I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice. And as GM it will be your job to inform them of their mistake. :D I did this repeatedly at GenCon (10 tables worth) and for a couple local games. As our erstwhile factionmaster (kiddoc, although for some reason he did not identify himself as such with his previous post :P ) noted, this issue has been clarified for a while, now. The new Campaign Standards should be out shortly, and everything will be clear. Just let everyone know that all LA +1 races work this way. (Aasimar, teifling, gnoll, drow, etc.)
kiddoc 09-30-06, 11:49 AM	So no racial HD for gnolls, but currently no campaign document clarifies this. I think they should create a custom player character race gnoll entry in the campaign standards document laid out like a player's handbook race showing no racial hit dice. Otherwise you cannot tell from reading the documents that in this case gnolls have no racial hit dice. I wasn't able to find any reference in the printed D&D and Eberron material about 1 HD gnolls that replace their racial hit die with a character class. The ruling of gnolls as LA +1 with an ECL of 2 as first level characters makes them game balanced and fair as a player character race. However, since no where in the official campaign document does it state this, and every other reference to gnolls elsewhere in D&D includes their 2 racial hit dice, Xen'drik Expeditions makes it sound like you can play a gnoll and get the 2 racial hit dice without incurring an ECL penalty for them. I'm going to be judging the Xen'drik Expeditions at my local game store starting next month, and as soon as the local players read the campaign standards they began creating gnoll characters with 2 racial hit dice. I absolutely, 100% assure you that the new campaign standards, sitting in my hands, make this crystal clear. Hopefully we'll be able to release these for public review within a week or so. Still a couple of sections that need additional content. More soon!
Gurrangatch 10-01-06, 01:44 AM	Are gnolls in the campaign setting going to lose their racial hit dice as well? If gnolls are encountered in adventures will they be the standard variety or the PC variety?
ispq 10-01-06, 07:48 AM	I would imagine that any Gnolls encountered as a course of any Xen'drik Expeditions will be modeled after a normal Monster Manual Gnoll. Double standards are a standard in D&D, which is why a 2 HD Gnoll is CR 1 and a 2 HD Gnome Fighter is CR 2.
Errean 10-04-06, 12:26 AM	I am far more afraid of the gnome. +4 size bonus to hide, only PHB race with spell-like abilitys, their beady little eyes... and don't forget the forest variety; another +4 racial bonus to hide that goes up to a +8 in forest, with no level adjustment. That means that you're looking at a 2nd level gnome rogue with a +21 to hide in forested areas, assuming an 18 Dex and no armor check penalty. God, I hate gnomes.
The_Newborn 10-10-06, 02:06 AM	I don't see why they wouldn't use the gnoll class progression from races of the wild like LG did with centaur in the Bright Sands series.
Butterface 10-10-06, 09:34 AM	I absolutely, 100% assure you that the new campaign standards, sitting in my hands, make this crystal clear. Hopefully we'll be able to release these for public review within a week or so. Still a couple of sections that need additional content. More soon! Gimme that CS!
Marcus Majarra 10-13-06, 12:44 AM	I don't see why they wouldn't use the gnoll class progression from races of the wild like LG did with centaur in the Bright Sands series. For one, because this would make them unplayable. Gnolls are poor in concept for PCs, according to the Monster Manual stats, if only because they start off with one extra hit die. The 2HD and 1LA penalty really downgrades gnolls a lot, whereas the current ruling brings the gnolls on par with the other LA+1 races that can be played in XenEx: Aasimars, Tieflings, Catfolk.
Lightblade 10-13-06, 09:39 AM	whereas the current ruling brings the gnolls on par with the other LA+1 races that can be played in XenEx: Aasimars, Tieflings, Catfolk. Don't forget the Drow. They're only LA+1 in Xen'drik.