Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Benimoto 06-24-06, 07:43 PM	The Campaign Standards says they have a +1 level adjustment. Is that on top of their 2 racial HD, or do is that included? If you make a gnoll at level 1, does he have 3 HD? Two from being a gnoll, and one from his class?
kiddoc 06-24-06, 07:50 PM	The Campaign Standards says they have a +1 level adjustment. Is that on top of their 2 racial HD, or do is that included? If you make a gnoll at level 1, does he have 3 HD? Two from being a gnoll, and one from his class? I'm pretty positive that in this case it's minus the levels of humanoid. I'll double check for ya, but for now, plan on a Gnoll coming in as a level 2 character. Traditionally that's how these things have worked. I'll let you know if anything changes.
PatEllis15 06-24-06, 08:35 PM	Okay, I'm an Eberron newb... Were Gnolls employed by the dragonmarked houses during the war? Why are they allowed in this particular faction?! Are other funky Humanoid races (Hobgoblins I'd assume...) allowed in the other factions? Pat E
PatEllis15 06-24-06, 08:58 PM	I read this in the draft campaign documents: * Gnolls have a +1 level adjustment and are considered 2nd-level character at the campaign start. At first level, choose a class normally. A gnoll character can't take second class level until reaching 3rd level, and the race always take up a level when the character progresses. Unlike the normal rules for level adjustment, gnolls characters gets the standard starting gold for its class I'm still a bit confused of course. So, I assume that this means that if you choose barbarian as your class, you can't take an actual level of barbarian until after 3rd level. And that the race level must always be the same or one level higher than your class level!? Sound right? Pat E
kiddoc 06-25-06, 12:11 AM	I read this in the draft campaign documents: I'm still a bit confused of course. So, I assume that this means that if you choose barbarian as your class, you can't take an actual level of barbarian until after 3rd level. And that the race level must always be the same or one level higher than your class level!? Sound right? Pat E First--To answer your question about Gnolls: I'm working on the BlackWheel Company FAQ, that will answer a LOT of questions. Let me just say that monstrous humanoids, like goblins, minotaurs, orcs, and gnolls are more common in the BlackWheel Company than in many other organizations. Without giving away the entire philosophy and backstory before we're ready, I can say this: The BWC believes that the Caldyn Fragments, a newly discovered and critically important part of the Draconic Prophecy, should be in the hands of a multi-national, panethnic, secular, and apolitical entity. That said, the BWC is not interested in race, religion, nation of origin, or past history. In fact, many BWC recruits come specifically to have their pasts wiped out. As such, we're much more likely to be the home to those seeking honor, glory, adventure, and the occasional bit of gold--no matter what race you are. We don't care who you WERE or what you look like--all that matters is that you get the job done. We're Heroes Inc. baby, cowards need not apply. But anyone else--regardless of your past, may. The first missions will separate out the wheat from the chaff. Now for the 2nd part: Gnoll As I understand it: It works this way. LA +1 Gnoll Level 1: Gnoll Level 2: Class So at the start of the campaign you begin as a level 2 character. That includes what-so-ever you choose as your first class level. So at the start of the campaign a Gnoll Fighter would be: Gnoll: 1 Fighter: 1 Overall Level: 2 But you'd need the XP to reach level 3 in order to take your 2nd class level. :D
boolean 06-26-06, 05:22 AM	So a Gnoll PC doesn't have the 2 humanoid hit dice that a standard MM Gnoll have? With 2 humanoid HD and a +1 LA, a Gnoll shouldn't get any class levels until 4th level. The campaign has already changed one race to make them more playable (Drow being only LA +1 for example).
kiddoc 06-26-06, 06:38 AM	So a Gnoll PC doesn't have the 2 humanoid hit dice that a standard MM Gnoll have? With 2 humanoid HD and a +1 LA, a Gnoll shouldn't get any class levels until 4th level. The campaign has already changed one race to make them more playable (Drow being only LA +1 for example). As of right now it reads exactly as Pat Ellis quoted in the campaign standards and as I explained above. Unless the revised campaign standards change something, that's what I'd plan for. Hopefully it won't change--I'm looking forward to having some very playable gnolls. :D
Greyson 06-26-06, 01:20 PM	I am guessing a gnoll shall get full hit points for its character class at 1st-level. But, just to be sure I thought I'd bring it up. It could be that a 1st-level Xen'drik Expeditions gnoll gets 16 hit points (2d8) plus Constitution bonus. You never know. On a side note, my BWC character shall probably be a single-class warforged fighter. Nice and easy.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 06-26-06, 02:14 PM	Okay, in XenEx Gnolls don't, I repeat, don't get the racial hit dice or the racial skill points or the feat. When you create a Gnoll you'll choose a class just like everyone else then use the following as your racial stats: Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits. Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2. Size Medium. A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. +1 natural armor bonus. Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. Favored Class: Ranger. Level adjustment +1. If you pick Fighter you'll have 10 + Con modifier hit points. Then, at third level, you may advance to 2nd level Fighter or choose another class. Hope this clears things up.
hwkies 06-27-06, 11:29 PM	My wife is putting together her gnoll barbie for origins, she is having lots of fun with this. Thanks for the Clarifications...I wasn't quite sure, cause the standards said "from MM1". Mark kelly - hwkies
kiddoc 06-28-06, 12:17 AM	My wife is putting together her gnoll barbie for origins, she is having lots of fun with this. Thanks for the Clarifications...I wasn't quite sure, cause the standards said "from MM1". Mark kelly - hwkies Indeed. I was *VERY* excited when I learned how gnolls would work in the campaign--moreso that I got them in my faction. I think the tweak makes them infinitely more playable. I'm looking forward to seeing some really dynamic gnoll characters. I think a gnoll marshal would be incredible. In fact, there are some gnoll characters in leadership positions within the BWC--you'll be introduced to one immediately in Prinicipal of the Matter. :D
Lightblade 06-28-06, 04:45 PM	Don't forget that Gnolls don't get Common as a free language; they need to take it as a bonus language (and with the -2 racial Int, that's difficult) or purchase a rank in Speak Language (which will most likely be cross-class). Or, you could decide to not speak common. Might make things interesting...
TheOtherChris 06-28-06, 05:14 PM	Don't forget that Gnolls don't get Common as a free language; they need to take it as a bonus language (and with the -2 racial Int, that's difficult) or purchase a rank in Speak Language (which will most likely be cross-class). Or, you could decide to not speak common. Might make things interesting... Sweet. Even more reason to get to hit your own friendlies. "He move. Me hit" "Ugh ugh" Like a super stupid half-orc barbarian. WOOHOOO hehe Gnoll's do seem really cool, (and useful) assuming they can either speak common, or you have party members that can speak gnollish? gnollese? If neither of those, then I have a feeling it could lead to a nice fight. Oops. :D Or just get your mage to cast mind control type things on the gnoll, and problem is solved. hehe
MrFilthyIke 06-28-06, 11:37 PM	Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits. Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2. Size Medium. A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. +1 natural armor bonus. Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. Favored Class: Ranger. Level adjustment +1. Two words...FECK YEAH!! :D
Undying_Councillor 06-29-06, 07:20 AM	What you need to do is use the Eldeen Plant Binder card for you character - that would make you a grassy gnoll. Having the Ranger shoot arrows from behind you makes a bad pun even worse.
Marcus Majarra 06-29-06, 11:14 AM	Two words...FECK YEAH!! :D IMHO, it's relatively unimpressive. There are plenty of LA+1 races that are far more playable than gnolls (like half-giants, goliaths, draconic creatures, etc.)
kiddoc 06-29-06, 11:23 AM	IMHO, it's relatively unimpressive. There are plenty of LA+1 races that are far more playable than gnolls (like half-giants, goliaths, draconic creatures, etc.) True, there are a lot better min/max races out there. I like the inclusion of gnolls for three reasons: 1. They have a nice niche in Eberron that I'm intentionally using the campaign to exploit/develop (we'll help better define their place in the world/society together). 2. They have a great "feel" and "flavor" as a race. 3. They're "free" to unlock. This means that as part of the BWC, you don't need a campaign card or any special unlock to snag them. I'll be making a gnoll pre-gen/fast-play character too, in order to plug the race to those folks who might be trying out the campaign for the first time. I'm looking forward to seeing some really great gnoll characters in the BWC.
Docrailgun 06-29-06, 11:32 AM	Sure, if one is only playing characters for their mechanical usefulness. If that were the only reason for making a character choice, the only characters that would be played would be goliath, human, or dwarven Wizard/Bard/Ur-Priest/Sublime Chords or Frenzied Berzerkers... possibly some Pun-Puns thrown in. Nevertheless, people still play half-orc bards, elven wizards without dipping into prestige classes, and halfling monks. I like the promise of this campaign, because it seems to offer some real roleplaying opportunities. I don't feel that MoH or LotGR provided much of that. IMHO, it's relatively unimpressive. There are plenty of LA+1 races that are far more playable than gnolls (like half-giants, goliaths, draconic creatures, etc.)
Beowulfe 07-04-06, 04:58 AM	We definitely need some clarification about gnolls. All I see in the campaign setting says they are the +1 level adjustment. It does not say they don't get their two levels of humanoid, skills or hit dice. I would think that is part of the level adjustment since it is all under the part about playing a gnoll as a PC. Can we get some official word and also have that added into the campaign setting.
kiddoc 07-04-06, 10:49 AM	We definitely need some clarification about gnolls. All I see in the campaign setting says they are the +1 level adjustment. It does not say they don't get their two levels of humanoid, skills or hit dice. I would think that is part of the level adjustment since it is all under the part about playing a gnoll as a PC. Can we get some official word and also have that added into the campaign setting. The paragraph on page 4 of the Campaign Standards could use a little clarification. I'll make sure that it gets conveyed clearly in the 1.0 version of the standards. As it stands, stick by the rule that it's one level of humanoid, one class level: Gnoll start as level 2 characters.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 07-04-06, 11:03 AM	The paragraph on page 4 of the Campaign Standards could use a little clarification. I'll make sure that it gets conveyed clearly in the 1.0 version of the standards. As it stands, stick by the rule that it's one level of humanoid, one class level: Gnoll start as level 2 characters. One level of Humanoid? I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Gnolls already are above the power curve when it comes to comparing them to the standard races due to their ability modifiers and such. This level is only represented there and not by a level in monsterous humanoid. A Gnoll with 1 level in monsterous humanoid and a level in let's say fighter would be the equal to a 3rd level PC of a standard race. Here is a link to the SRD section on Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#levelAdjustmentandEf fectiveCharacterLevel) if you'd like to check it out.
Docrailgun 07-04-06, 03:48 PM	Frobi-Wan, I agree with you that the campaign standards' "one level of Gnoll and one class level" is not being handled as per the usual monsterous humanoid rules (which is LA + the creature's standard HD). As I said below, the "level of gnoll" is more like a "gnoll template" than a level of humanoid. Kiddoc, "One level of humanoid" isn't very accurate, as the gnoll character isn't getting anything for their level of gnoll... no skill points, no hit points, no BAB, nothing. The rule section in the standards' document says: "At first level, choose a class normally. A gnoll character can't take a second class level until reaching 3rd level and the race always takes up a level when the character progresses." So, to me, this is saying that the "level" of gnoll is a virtual one. It just takes up a spot on the sheet but provides no advantage other than the gnoll's special abilities. The character has 1st level gold, 1st level hit points, 1stlevel skill points, and so on. It's even debatable if the character will be getting a feat at character level 3 (via level kick or by scenario play) but I would say so. I'm aware the rules also say "are considered 2nd-level characters", but I think that was just an unfortunate choice of words. A Blackwheel Company gnoll has one character level and a pseudo-level that provides a few bonuses... more like a template with a LA than an actual racial or class level. One level of Humanoid? I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Here is a link to the SRD section on Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#levelAdjustmentandEf fectiveCharacterLevel) if you'd like to check it out.
kiddoc 07-04-06, 03:56 PM	Kiddoc, "One level of humanoid" isn't very accurate, as the gnoll character isn't getting anything for their level of gnoll... no skill points, no hit points, no BAB, nothing. The rule section in the standards' document says: Right, good point. It is more of a psuedo-level, which is what makes the current wording confusing. We'll get that cleared up, rest assured.
sentinelmarshal 07-04-06, 04:01 PM	I agree as well - any 1st-level gnoll character would be the XP equivalent of a 4th-level PC: (2 HD Monstrous Humanoid) + (+1 LA) + (1 class level) So, for the prupose of XE, are we just supposed to ignore the racial HD? With all these questions, maybe the RPGA will decide against letting us play gnolls in a D&D Campaign... :P
smerwin29 07-04-06, 05:06 PM	I agree as well - any 1st-level gnoll character would be the XP equivalent of a 4th-level PC: (2 HD Monstrous Humanoid) + (+1 LA) + (1 class level) So, for the prupose of XE, are we just supposed to ignore the racial HD? Just to be perfectly clear, a gnoll fighter one would have all the stats of a normal 1st level fighter: ignore the racial hit dice. So that would be two feats, 10 + Constitution bonus hit points, (2 + Intelligence modifier) x 4 skill points, etc. That character, with 0 experience points, is considered a level 2 character for figuring out the average party level. When that character reaches 1000 experience points, it is still a second-level character and gains no level. It is still a second level character. When that character reaches 3000 experience points, it can take another class level, so it could be a gnoll fighter 2, but it is considered a third-level character. We will try to ensure that HQ includes this to be clear in Version 1 of the Campaign Standards. Thanks, Shawn Crimson Codex Guy
Tonus 08-25-06, 09:32 PM	What you need to do is use the Eldeen Plant Binder card for you character - that would make you a grassy gnoll. Having the Ranger shoot arrows from behind you makes a bad pun even worse. And if you are a mercenary for a gnoll warren you could say that you have a warren commission. And don't forget to file your monthly Warren Report!
DBlizzard 08-27-06, 01:51 PM	Don't forget that Gnolls don't get Common as a free language; they need to take it as a bonus language (and with the -2 racial Int, that's difficult) or purchase a rank in Speak Language (which will most likely be cross-class). Or, you could decide to not speak common. Might make things interesting... The gnoll in this weekend's game chose not to learn common (perhaps not intentionally). Fortunately, I decided to take gnoll as my language. My Deneith warmage took gnoll as one of his languages and was the only PC who could easily communicate with the gnoll. This sort of made me the default party leader (also being one of the few PCs with a positive Cha bonus).
GaiasDream 08-28-06, 12:03 PM	As I understand it: It works this way. LA +1 Gnoll Level 1: Gnoll Level 2: Class So at the start of the campaign you begin as a level 2 character. That includes what-so-ever you choose as your first class level. So at the start of the campaign a Gnoll Fighter would be: Gnoll: 1 Fighter: 1 Overall Level: 2 But you'd need the XP to reach level 3 in order to take your 2nd class level. :D Hi Kiddoc, I understand the necessity of not granting gnoll PCs two HD of humanoid at 1st level as well as an extra feat and skill points. That would be extremely broken. Your solution as interpreted above seems to make sense except for one thing. If we are given and ECL +1 for the Gnoll "template" but only get the racial ability adjustments, darkvision and +1 Natural Armor bonus, isn't it true that gnolls will forever be 1HD behind the HP curve after 1st level? In other words, if gnoll PCs gain literally nothing for advancing to 2nd level (we need 3k instead of 1k to take our 2nd level in a PC class), we will always have one less die worth of HP than an non-gnoll. Thus: 1st level gnoll fighter: 1D10, 0 exp 2nd level gnoll fighter: 1D10, (no levelup due to +1 ECL), 1000 exp 3rd level gnoll fighter: 2D10, 3000 exp compared to a human fighter, for example: 1st level human fighter: 1D10, 0 exp 2nd level human fighter: 2D10, 1000 exp 3rd level human fighter: 3D10, 3000 exp So are we trading a loss of a permanent HD for racial ability adjustments, darkvision and +1 Nat. Armor Bonus? If this is the case, I would have reconsidered my choice of gnoll as my Blackwheel PC. A happy medium solution might be to give the gnolls 8HP +CON bonus at 1st level in addition to the PC level HD (rather than 2d8+CON according to MM3.5) to avoid gnoll PCs being permanently behind by 1HD as compared to non-gnolls. Alternately, perhaps there has been an official ruling which interprets the racial adjustments for gnolls, half-daelkyr, half-giants, drow, etc. (essentially, all the +1 ECL races) to be worth the permanent sacrifice of a single HD as compared to the standard races. Can you advise on this? Thanks, Nick Mancuso Silver Spring, MD Klawgrinn Yakl, Gnoll Druid, Dragoon of the Blackwheel Company: United Aim! PS. Your DM-fu running the Xen'drik delve was mighty fine - thanks for a couple of challenging and fun delve sessions at GenCon.
Skerrit 08-28-06, 02:18 PM	You do indeed lose the HD for the +1 ECL; but don't forget in addition to the +1 natural armor, etc... you also get the unbalanced stats. That's how it works for gnolls, drow, half-giants, etc...
kiddoc 08-28-06, 05:04 PM	You do indeed lose the HD for the +1 ECL; but don't forget in addition to the +1 natural armor, etc... you also get the unbalanced stats. That's how it works for gnolls, drow, half-giants, etc... Greg, is correct, of course. Don't think of LA+1 as a bonus. Think of it as a penalty. You want to do something cool, unusual, or challenging in a unique way (for, perhaps, both DM and player)--and there is a cost associated with that. The stat, natural armor, darkvision, and other associated benefits of being a Gnoll incur a cost. That cost is always needing a bit more additional experience to level. I don't necessarily view it as being "a level behind." That statement has a lot of additional implications (particularly in a level bump campaign, which can quickly annihilate any XP penalties). Rather I try to think of it as needing more experience to advance to your next class level.
GaiasDream 08-28-06, 05:33 PM	Greg, is correct, of course. Don't think of LA+1 as a bonus. Think of it as a penalty. You want to do something cool, unusual, or challenging in a unique way (for, perhaps, both DM and player)--and there is a cost associated with that. The stat, natural armor, darkvision, and other associated benefits of being a Gnoll incur a cost. That cost is always needing a bit more additional experience to level. I don't necessarily view it as being "a level behind." That statement has a lot of additional implications (particularly in a level bump campaign, which can quickly annihilate any XP penalties). Rather I try to think of it as needing more experience to advance to your next class level. Okay, this makes good sense to me as a DM and player, and I thank you both for the explanation. This should clear up the confusion surrounding the ECL adjustments for all the unique races in Xen'drik Expeditions. For the Blackwheel Company! Best, Nick