Level 4 gnolls & LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level 4 gnolls & LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WolfStar76
03-03-07, 11:49 AM Running a BWC session later this afternoon, and one of my players has inquired what exactly a Level 4 gnoll is like stat-wise.

Let's assume we've got a gnoll fighter. At level 4 is this gnoll a level 4 gnoll fighter with the full 4 levels of fighter HD and a +4 BAB? Or does the +1LA hold him to 3 levels of fighter, with level 3 saves, +3BAB, etc etc etc?

I'm sure its in the CS, but I'm stuck at work until I have to leave to run the game session and unfortunately don't have the time to research it properly myself.

Therefore, I'm relying on my fellow hires to have already done the legwork and share their findings with me and my troops.

Thanks in advance.
Peter_Seckler
03-03-07, 12:54 PM The gnolls (and tieflings) I saw at DDXP were limited to 3 class levels and the +1 LA to be 4th level characters.
WolfStar76
03-03-07, 01:12 PM So, in the case of a gnoll fighter, they'd have 4HD, but all other stats would be the same as a 3rd level fighter?
Skerrit
03-03-07, 01:23 PM No, they are 3 HD (3 levels of fighter). Effectively they are a level behind in all their stats or class abilities or features.
MysticRhythms
03-05-07, 07:42 PM This needs to be made fairly clear as I saw at least two players at DDXP that had the full compliment of feats, BaB and hit points for a 4th level Gnoll character.
Hellcast
03-06-07, 03:10 PM I think it's clear enough, i've seen this question answered here more than a few times and they still keep comming :P all PCs with level ajustment +1 are 1 level behind others in all aspects, except to determine XP to advance a level.

All gnolls(in this example) are 3rd level characters(with no racial HD(only class HD),racial skills, etc, just ability adjustments and ex. abilities(darkvision, etc)) but you count as if you were a 4th level trying to get to 5th.

Is it clear?:)

it's even easier now that we start at 4th level, no 1st level that were 2nd level.
delveg
03-06-07, 05:07 PM This is how I say it in my Xen'drik Assistant (http://scottrpg.pbwiki.com/XendrikGames):The current minimum level is 4th. So if you're looking to create a new character for any reason, you'll create the character at a 4th level. (Well, 4th level total. If you take an +1 LA race, your character's class levels total 3.)

Does that read clearly to you?
Hellcast
03-06-07, 07:04 PM Your version is clear, but incomplete.I think the version in the CS is also clear.

As I said there still are people who use the racial HD and skill mods, just the plain Gnoll from the MM.

And there could be players leveling to 4th level at 6000xp, when it should be 10000xp if they don't check the RPGA records to see they're still at 4th level and later get a surprise.
MysticRhythms
03-06-07, 07:50 PM Is it clear?:)

To me? Absolutely.

To the judge at my Blackwheel Table at DDXP and the player of the gnoll at the same table? It wasn't. I didn't want to start an argument.

I had fun and that is what really matters but the only thing that gave my argument a leg to stand on was the gnoll Fastplay character.

That shouldn't be the reference for this rule.
Diablo05
03-07-07, 11:41 AM the +1 LA simply adjusts ***** the xp table up one level. So, instead of the usual xp progression of 1000, 3000, 6000 for 2nd, 3rd and 4th lvl, it becomes 3000, 6000, 10000.

So, if the lvl bump brings a normal character up to lvl 4, that equates to 6000xp. A Gnoll with 6000xp would only be lvl 3.

The +1 LA in no way effects HD, class abilities, BaB, Saves, or anything else. It only changes how much xp you need to lvl up
pedr
03-07-07, 12:19 PM I'm not sure that's helpful in XE where we don't know our XP totals.

I think I understand what you're saying and I think I agree, but the easiest way of saying it is this:

Subtract 1 from the 'character level' reported by the character tracker for all purposes if you are playing a race with a +1 LA. Then use that level to create/advance/equip your character.

Now in terms of policy, as I've said before, I think that GP limit ought to be an exception to this (it being a campaign model issue not really connected with HD) but I don't think the campaign administration agrees with me!
Wrathamon
03-08-07, 10:22 PM This needs to be made fairly clear as I saw at least two players at DDXP that had the full compliment of feats, BaB and hit points for a 4th level Gnoll character.

so you are saying they were playing 5th level characters?
Skerrit
03-10-07, 11:45 AM No, you are a 3rd level PC. Level bump PCs always subtract their LA from the current level displayed in the database. A gnoll right after the bump is 3rd level.
Hsien
03-15-07, 01:23 PM No, you are a 3rd level PC. Level bump PCs always subtract their LA from the current level displayed in the database. A gnoll right after the bump is 3rd level.

Absolutely correct. If you still have doubts check out the Fast play characters; the Gnoll fighter is 3rd level.

~ Howler of the Blackwheel Co. ( ok so I translated for Howler )
Hellcast
03-18-07, 11:11 PM I've read the +1 lvl adjustment part again and it says action points,expantion slots adn other campaign features are based on class level. My question is that, does this extend to gp cap for limiteds items?they still get the EV from the bump also right?
Skerrit
03-19-07, 12:05 PM I've read the +1 lvl adjustment part again and it says action points,expantion slots adn other campaign features are based on class level. My question is that, does this extend to gp cap for limiteds items?they still get the EV from the bump also right?

Gnolls do get the normal gp from the 4th level bump, but they are limited to the gold cap of a 4th-level PC. (Note the fastplay gnoll violates this, and so gets a little extra perk).
pedr
03-19-07, 12:22 PM Do you mean "gold cap of a 3rd-level PC"?

I won't reiterate my reasoning about why I think that this is a disproportionately harsh restriction because it seems the FMs are clear that that's how it works.

Something that I wish you'd reconsider, though!
Skerrit
03-19-07, 12:54 PM Yes, you have the item gp limit of a 3rd-level PC. This isn't much of a big deal once you get past this level bump, as that disparity quickly gets hidden as the numbers rise.
Hellcast
03-19-07, 02:44 PM just so I could know before I played the PC. This means I can't enchant my armor by some lousy 200gp :Plol

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WolfStar76 03-03-07, 11:49 AM	Running a BWC session later this afternoon, and one of my players has inquired what exactly a Level 4 gnoll is like stat-wise. Let's assume we've got a gnoll fighter. At level 4 is this gnoll a level 4 gnoll fighter with the full 4 levels of fighter HD and a +4 BAB? Or does the +1LA hold him to 3 levels of fighter, with level 3 saves, +3BAB, etc etc etc? I'm sure its in the CS, but I'm stuck at work until I have to leave to run the game session and unfortunately don't have the time to research it properly myself. Therefore, I'm relying on my fellow hires to have already done the legwork and share their findings with me and my troops. Thanks in advance.
Peter_Seckler 03-03-07, 12:54 PM	The gnolls (and tieflings) I saw at DDXP were limited to 3 class levels and the +1 LA to be 4th level characters.
WolfStar76 03-03-07, 01:12 PM	So, in the case of a gnoll fighter, they'd have 4HD, but all other stats would be the same as a 3rd level fighter?
Skerrit 03-03-07, 01:23 PM	No, they are 3 HD (3 levels of fighter). Effectively they are a level behind in all their stats or class abilities or features.
MysticRhythms 03-05-07, 07:42 PM	This needs to be made fairly clear as I saw at least two players at DDXP that had the full compliment of feats, BaB and hit points for a 4th level Gnoll character.
Hellcast 03-06-07, 03:10 PM	I think it's clear enough, i've seen this question answered here more than a few times and they still keep comming :P all PCs with level ajustment +1 are 1 level behind others in all aspects, except to determine XP to advance a level. All gnolls(in this example) are 3rd level characters(with no racial HD(only class HD),racial skills, etc, just ability adjustments and ex. abilities(darkvision, etc)) but you count as if you were a 4th level trying to get to 5th. Is it clear?:) it's even easier now that we start at 4th level, no 1st level that were 2nd level.
delveg 03-06-07, 05:07 PM	This is how I say it in my Xen'drik Assistant (http://scottrpg.pbwiki.com/XendrikGames):The current minimum level is 4th. So if you're looking to create a new character for any reason, you'll create the character at a 4th level. (Well, 4th level total. If you take an +1 LA race, your character's class levels total 3.) Does that read clearly to you?
Hellcast 03-06-07, 07:04 PM	Your version is clear, but incomplete.I think the version in the CS is also clear. As I said there still are people who use the racial HD and skill mods, just the plain Gnoll from the MM. And there could be players leveling to 4th level at 6000xp, when it should be 10000xp if they don't check the RPGA records to see they're still at 4th level and later get a surprise.
MysticRhythms 03-06-07, 07:50 PM	Is it clear?:) To me? Absolutely. To the judge at my Blackwheel Table at DDXP and the player of the gnoll at the same table? It wasn't. I didn't want to start an argument. I had fun and that is what really matters but the only thing that gave my argument a leg to stand on was the gnoll Fastplay character. That shouldn't be the reference for this rule.
Diablo05 03-07-07, 11:41 AM	the +1 LA simply adjusts ***** the xp table up one level. So, instead of the usual xp progression of 1000, 3000, 6000 for 2nd, 3rd and 4th lvl, it becomes 3000, 6000, 10000. So, if the lvl bump brings a normal character up to lvl 4, that equates to 6000xp. A Gnoll with 6000xp would only be lvl 3. The +1 LA in no way effects HD, class abilities, BaB, Saves, or anything else. It only changes how much xp you need to lvl up
pedr 03-07-07, 12:19 PM	I'm not sure that's helpful in XE where we don't know our XP totals. I think I understand what you're saying and I think I agree, but the easiest way of saying it is this: Subtract 1 from the 'character level' reported by the character tracker for all purposes if you are playing a race with a +1 LA. Then use that level to create/advance/equip your character. Now in terms of policy, as I've said before, I think that GP limit ought to be an exception to this (it being a campaign model issue not really connected with HD) but I don't think the campaign administration agrees with me!
Wrathamon 03-08-07, 10:22 PM	This needs to be made fairly clear as I saw at least two players at DDXP that had the full compliment of feats, BaB and hit points for a 4th level Gnoll character. so you are saying they were playing 5th level characters?
Skerrit 03-10-07, 11:45 AM	No, you are a 3rd level PC. Level bump PCs always subtract their LA from the current level displayed in the database. A gnoll right after the bump is 3rd level.
Hsien 03-15-07, 01:23 PM	No, you are a 3rd level PC. Level bump PCs always subtract their LA from the current level displayed in the database. A gnoll right after the bump is 3rd level. Absolutely correct. If you still have doubts check out the Fast play characters; the Gnoll fighter is 3rd level. ~ Howler of the Blackwheel Co. ( ok so I translated for Howler )
Hellcast 03-18-07, 11:11 PM	I've read the +1 lvl adjustment part again and it says action points,expantion slots adn other campaign features are based on class level. My question is that, does this extend to gp cap for limiteds items?they still get the EV from the bump also right?
Skerrit 03-19-07, 12:05 PM	I've read the +1 lvl adjustment part again and it says action points,expantion slots adn other campaign features are based on class level. My question is that, does this extend to gp cap for limiteds items?they still get the EV from the bump also right? Gnolls do get the normal gp from the 4th level bump, but they are limited to the gold cap of a 4th-level PC. (Note the fastplay gnoll violates this, and so gets a little extra perk).
pedr 03-19-07, 12:22 PM	Do you mean "gold cap of a 3rd-level PC"? I won't reiterate my reasoning about why I think that this is a disproportionately harsh restriction because it seems the FMs are clear that that's how it works. Something that I wish you'd reconsider, though!
Skerrit 03-19-07, 12:54 PM	Yes, you have the item gp limit of a 3rd-level PC. This isn't much of a big deal once you get past this level bump, as that disparity quickly gets hidden as the numbers rise.
Hellcast 03-19-07, 02:44 PM	just so I could know before I played the PC. This means I can't enchant my armor by some lousy 200gp :Plol