Calling upon the Shadow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Calling upon the Shadow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lordtiberiusfoxx
07-21-06, 07:19 PM By the way that I am reading it, it would seem that only a non-evil character can call upon shadow. Please tell me that I'm mis-interpreting this or that the "call upon shadow" ability is just badly worded. I'm finding this to be very self-righteous on the part of the shadow.

Tiberius Foxx

Have you accepted the Fury as your personal condemner?
Herrbard
07-21-06, 07:43 PM By the way that I am reading it, it would seem that only a non-evil character can call upon shadow. Please tell me that I'm mis-interpreting this or that the "call upon shadow" ability is just badly worded. I'm finding this to be very self-righteous on the part of the shadow.
No, everyone gets it. The words "are still blessed" means that they are also included in this ability, just like the evil guys.
Harliquinn
07-21-06, 11:24 PM I read it completely differently. The 'bonus' for evil characters is that you can be evil and all the goodies are unlocked for your expansion slots. My interpretation was that for those who are 'good' you still get a special ability and that's Calling on the Shadows.
Munchausen
07-22-06, 12:46 AM The way i read it.. they are kinda making fun at those who want to play a 'Good' alignment. The sentence is kinda wacked, but I am sure that everyone gets the call of shadow. So with that and the darkness that Tieflings do.. heh very very nice ;)

Be very afraid of the dark..
Skerrit
07-22-06, 12:10 PM So not an official ruling because all of those must come from HQ via Tim, but the way I read it is if you are evil, you unlock everything that requires you to be evil as a requirement. Well, that means you would get no benefit if you aren't evil, so if you are non-evil, you instead get the call on shadow ability.
Herrbard
07-22-06, 02:40 PM Obviously Greg is the Word until something official is handed down from HQ. I'm just trying to make my opinion clear by quoting the campaign standards here:

Members of the Cabal can be evil characters, and as so any evil actions they commit do not generate alignment shift Story Objects. Also, unlike other characters in the campaign, Cabal of Shadows characters can worship evil deities and pantheons. The following prestige classes are unlocked for Cabal of Shadows characters: assassin and blackguard (DMG). Also, any restricted prestige class or feat with a requirement of evil alignment can be placed on a Cabal of Shadows expansion list as if it were a limited rather than a restricted item.

Cabal of Shadows members who aren’t evil are still blessed (some would say cursed) by Shadow. Once a day, by spending an action point, you can call on shadow to aid you. Calling on shadows is a spell-like ability with the effects of a Veil of shadows (SC 228 or sidebar) and a darkvision spell (PH 216) cast on you. The call on shadows lasts for as many minutes as you have character levels plus your Charisma modifier (minimum 1 minute).
As I said before, it is that "are still blessed by Shadow" line that makes me think that all members of the Cabal get this blessing. However, I will uphold Greg's ruling at my tables until official word comes down.
Harliquinn
07-23-06, 12:43 AM I took the 'are still blessed' to mean that Good characters can still benefit from the Cabal of Shadows (differently from Evil characters) with the Veil of Shadows ability. Evil characters benefit by meeting all 'evil' prerequisites.
Sianger
08-03-06, 08:56 PM Well the 1.0 Campaign Standards make it quite clear - if you're an evil CoS character, you get evil access benefits; if you're a non-evil CoS member, you get the Call on Shadows ability.
Herrbard
08-03-06, 09:38 PM Yep, I admit I was wrong. Still seems strange to me, though.

"Hey, you're not evil. Here, have this cool benifit that we evil guys don't get, so you at least LOOK evil!" I'll laugh about this for days....

(OK, I have no life). ;)
Harliquinn
08-03-06, 09:39 PM The evil guys get the cool factor of unlocking all 'evil' prequisites and even some special prestige classes. That's pretty huge as it is.

Crimsen Codex has something similar in that you either get some knowledge skills as class skills or you get the glyphbook if you already have knowledge skills as class skills. You don't get both.
Sianger
08-04-06, 03:37 AM So, just what does being allowed to be evil unlock?

There's a decently comprehensive list of "evil" PrCs in another post on this board by delroland, which I've reproduced here; but what other evil classes are there? What about feats? Maybe we could compile a little list of what, on our character sheets at least, make us CoS members "special"... ;)

One of the perks of being in the Cabal is that, not only do we get access to the assassin and blackguard PrC's, but that we may also unlock any restricted PrC that has an evil alignment requirement. I have found a nearly complete list of such PrC's.

This first group of PrC's are those that are explicitly covered by the above perk:

Ghost Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer)
Ravager (Complete Warrior)
Talon of Tiamat (Draconomicon)
Ur-Priest (Complete Divine)

All you need to do is spend one of your expansion item slots on any of the above PrC's (following the restrictions of adding PrC's to your expansion list), and your character can be one.

Now, the next group of PrC's are those that don't exactly require an evil alignment as a prerequisite. Some require a non-good or non-lawful alignment, others allow one or two non-evil alignments, and one requires the worship of an evil deity without having an actual alignment requirement. They are:

Acolyte of the Skin (Complete Arcane)
Alienist (Complete Arcane)
Black Flame Zealot (Complete Divine)
Blighter (Complete Divine)
Blood Magus (Complete Arcane)
Death's Chosen (Libris Mortis)
Dirgesinger (Libris Mortis)
Entropomancer (Complete Divine)
Eye of Gruumsh (Complete Warrior)
Fleshwarper (Lords of Madness)
Master of Shrouds (Libris Mortis)
Menacing Brute (Races of Destiny)
Mindbender (Complete Arcane)
Pale Master (Libris Mortis)
Scar Enforcer (Races of Destiny)
Stormlord (Complete Divine)
True Necromancer (Libris Mortis)
Walker in the Waste (Sandstorm)

This list includes all of the XE books except Five Nations, Magic of Eberron, Player's Guide to Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, Dungeon Master's Guide II, Spell Compendium, Complete Psionic, Frostburn, Magic of Incarnum, and Stormwrack.

The problem with the second list is two-fold; one: we don't know which are restricted, and two: we don't know which classes are covered under the unlocking of evil PrC's rule.

If we could get a ruling on what will be made available, I believe it would be well appreciated. I would also like to add that some of these classes may seem "inappropriate" for Eberron, as those classes are flavored towards a specific campaign, but all of them can easily be adapted so that they are Eberron appropriate. A good example would be the Stormlord from Complete Divine, which requires the worship of Talos, a FR god. By changing this to the Devourer, it easily becomes appropriate to the campaign. You can do the same with the Eye of Gruumsh, instead dedicating the class to the Mockery or the Dragon Below.

If anyone finds another class that belongs on these lists, feel free to post them here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lordtiberiusfoxx 07-21-06, 07:19 PM	By the way that I am reading it, it would seem that only a non-evil character can call upon shadow. Please tell me that I'm mis-interpreting this or that the "call upon shadow" ability is just badly worded. I'm finding this to be very self-righteous on the part of the shadow. Tiberius Foxx Have you accepted the Fury as your personal condemner?
Herrbard 07-21-06, 07:43 PM	By the way that I am reading it, it would seem that only a non-evil character can call upon shadow. Please tell me that I'm mis-interpreting this or that the "call upon shadow" ability is just badly worded. I'm finding this to be very self-righteous on the part of the shadow. No, everyone gets it. The words "are still blessed" means that they are also included in this ability, just like the evil guys.
Harliquinn 07-21-06, 11:24 PM	I read it completely differently. The 'bonus' for evil characters is that you can be evil and all the goodies are unlocked for your expansion slots. My interpretation was that for those who are 'good' you still get a special ability and that's Calling on the Shadows.
Munchausen 07-22-06, 12:46 AM	The way i read it.. they are kinda making fun at those who want to play a 'Good' alignment. The sentence is kinda wacked, but I am sure that everyone gets the call of shadow. So with that and the darkness that Tieflings do.. heh very very nice ;) Be very afraid of the dark..
Skerrit 07-22-06, 12:10 PM	So not an official ruling because all of those must come from HQ via Tim, but the way I read it is if you are evil, you unlock everything that requires you to be evil as a requirement. Well, that means you would get no benefit if you aren't evil, so if you are non-evil, you instead get the call on shadow ability.
Herrbard 07-22-06, 02:40 PM	Obviously Greg is the Word until something official is handed down from HQ. I'm just trying to make my opinion clear by quoting the campaign standards here: Members of the Cabal can be evil characters, and as so any evil actions they commit do not generate alignment shift Story Objects. Also, unlike other characters in the campaign, Cabal of Shadows characters can worship evil deities and pantheons. The following prestige classes are unlocked for Cabal of Shadows characters: assassin and blackguard (DMG). Also, any restricted prestige class or feat with a requirement of evil alignment can be placed on a Cabal of Shadows expansion list as if it were a limited rather than a restricted item. Cabal of Shadows members who aren’t evil are still blessed (some would say cursed) by Shadow. Once a day, by spending an action point, you can call on shadow to aid you. Calling on shadows is a spell-like ability with the effects of a Veil of shadows (SC 228 or sidebar) and a darkvision spell (PH 216) cast on you. The call on shadows lasts for as many minutes as you have character levels plus your Charisma modifier (minimum 1 minute). As I said before, it is that "are still blessed by Shadow" line that makes me think that all members of the Cabal get this blessing. However, I will uphold Greg's ruling at my tables until official word comes down.
Harliquinn 07-23-06, 12:43 AM	I took the 'are still blessed' to mean that Good characters can still benefit from the Cabal of Shadows (differently from Evil characters) with the Veil of Shadows ability. Evil characters benefit by meeting all 'evil' prerequisites.
Sianger 08-03-06, 08:56 PM	Well the 1.0 Campaign Standards make it quite clear - if you're an evil CoS character, you get evil access benefits; if you're a non-evil CoS member, you get the Call on Shadows ability.
Herrbard 08-03-06, 09:38 PM	Yep, I admit I was wrong. Still seems strange to me, though. "Hey, you're not evil. Here, have this cool benifit that we evil guys don't get, so you at least LOOK evil!" I'll laugh about this for days.... (OK, I have no life). ;)
Harliquinn 08-03-06, 09:39 PM	The evil guys get the cool factor of unlocking all 'evil' prequisites and even some special prestige classes. That's pretty huge as it is. Crimsen Codex has something similar in that you either get some knowledge skills as class skills or you get the glyphbook if you already have knowledge skills as class skills. You don't get both.
Sianger 08-04-06, 03:37 AM	So, just what does being allowed to be evil unlock? There's a decently comprehensive list of "evil" PrCs in another post on this board by delroland, which I've reproduced here; but what other evil classes are there? What about feats? Maybe we could compile a little list of what, on our character sheets at least, make us CoS members "special"... ;) One of the perks of being in the Cabal is that, not only do we get access to the assassin and blackguard PrC's, but that we may also unlock any restricted PrC that has an evil alignment requirement. I have found a nearly complete list of such PrC's. This first group of PrC's are those that are explicitly covered by the above perk: Ghost Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer) Ravager (Complete Warrior) Talon of Tiamat (Draconomicon) Ur-Priest (Complete Divine) All you need to do is spend one of your expansion item slots on any of the above PrC's (following the restrictions of adding PrC's to your expansion list), and your character can be one. Now, the next group of PrC's are those that don't exactly require an evil alignment as a prerequisite. Some require a non-good or non-lawful alignment, others allow one or two non-evil alignments, and one requires the worship of an evil deity without having an actual alignment requirement. They are: Acolyte of the Skin (Complete Arcane) Alienist (Complete Arcane) Black Flame Zealot (Complete Divine) Blighter (Complete Divine) Blood Magus (Complete Arcane) Death's Chosen (Libris Mortis) Dirgesinger (Libris Mortis) Entropomancer (Complete Divine) Eye of Gruumsh (Complete Warrior) Fleshwarper (Lords of Madness) Master of Shrouds (Libris Mortis) Menacing Brute (Races of Destiny) Mindbender (Complete Arcane) Pale Master (Libris Mortis) Scar Enforcer (Races of Destiny) Stormlord (Complete Divine) True Necromancer (Libris Mortis) Walker in the Waste (Sandstorm) This list includes all of the XE books except Five Nations, Magic of Eberron, Player's Guide to Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, Dungeon Master's Guide II, Spell Compendium, Complete Psionic, Frostburn, Magic of Incarnum, and Stormwrack. The problem with the second list is two-fold; one: we don't know which are restricted, and two: we don't know which classes are covered under the unlocking of evil PrC's rule. If we could get a ruling on what will be made available, I believe it would be well appreciated. I would also like to add that some of these classes may seem "inappropriate" for Eberron, as those classes are flavored towards a specific campaign, but all of them can easily be adapted so that they are Eberron appropriate. A good example would be the Stormlord from Complete Divine, which requires the worship of Talos, a FR god. By changing this to the Devourer, it easily becomes appropriate to the campaign. You can do the same with the Eye of Gruumsh, instead dedicating the class to the Mockery or the Dragon Below. If anyone finds another class that belongs on these lists, feel free to post them here.