Need some help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need some help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
D1Tremere
03-13-07, 12:51 PM I'm trying to drum up interist in the new Cabal of Shadows Module in the group I run, I'd like to download the first modules for the Cabal and run them to get people excited before running them in the new one but I can't find any where to get them. Does anyone know where I can find them?
Skerrit
03-14-07, 10:33 AM They are retired.
D1Tremere
03-14-07, 10:38 AM So once an adventure is retired there is no way to get it, even for non official games to catch people up on what there missing?
If so that's very lame.
Skerrit
03-16-07, 10:38 AM The only way to catch up is to read the summaries of the adventures posted on the XE website after each level bump.
Marcus Majarra
03-16-07, 08:16 PM There's always the possibility of finding someone who has downloaded the adventures and have that person send you the files. However, you will be unable to play these adventures officially, so characters will receive no rewards from participating in these adventures.

You could run them as home games, or even as DM's Marks (finding appropriate ways to gain access to the story items of the DM's mark you'll be running).
pedr
03-17-07, 08:15 AM And be aware that doing that infringes the copyright of the authors and WotC and breaks RPGA rules.

Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen, or that you'll not find such people willing to pass them around, but it's not something which is officially sanctioned, and not something which these boards can condone.
D1Tremere
03-17-07, 10:03 AM Wow, games meet government style red tape.
Now I know why no one I know is all that interisted in the RPGA, I think instead of me convencing them Ill just stand convenced myself to give up.
smerwin29
03-17-07, 10:30 AM Yep. Its one of the things you have to deal with in the RPGA. When an adventure is retired, it is unavailable. As with everything, you have to weigh the benefits versus the hassles. The RPGA is not for everyone.
Xandore
04-09-07, 01:35 PM And be aware that doing that infringes the copyright of the authors and WotC and breaks RPGA rules.

Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen, or that you'll not find such people willing to pass them around, but it's not something which is officially sanctioned, and not something which these boards can condone.

The amount that is typically awarded for copyright infringement tends to be based on loss of sales. Since the the adventures are not sold and are free the amount awarded would typically be $0.00. Going after this type of violation would tend to be consider vindictive and the courts tends not to look kindly upon vindictive lawsuits. Still you could be sued so you have to ask yourself is it worth it? Is it?!?
pedr
04-09-07, 02:07 PM Alternative remedies are available for IP infringements in most jurisdictions, I believe, including requiring the destruction of the infringing copies.

Pursuing legal action to vindicate copyright is not vindictive, and suggesting it could be is irresponsible. No-one should encourage the unlawful copying of RPGA adventures, even if we acknowledge that it does take place and that it would be considerably more convenient if the modules didn't retire in the same way.

It's also worth noting that it constitutes 'fraud' under the RPGA rules, which can leave you banned from RPGA and DCI events.
Xandore
04-09-07, 07:04 PM Pursuing legal action to vindicate copyright is not vindictive, and suggesting it could be is irresponsible.

I stated that doing so when loss is zero is vindictive. I was basically repeating something I read.

"Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive." - 10 Big Myths about copyright explained

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
pedr
04-09-07, 08:19 PM Yes, but that's a selective reading of that section of the web-article you're basing your argument on. The whole section reads:

While copyright law makes it technically illegal to reproduce almost any new creative work (other than under fair use) without permission, if the work is unregistered and has no real commercial value, it gets very little protection. The author in this case can sue for an injunction against the publication, actual damages from a violation, and possibly court costs. Actual damages means actual money potentially lost by the author due to publication, plus any money gained by the defendant. But if a work has no commercial value, such as a typical E-mail message or conversational USENET posting, the actual damages will be zero. Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive.

The author's right to control what is done with a work, however, has some validity, even if it has no commercial value. If you feel you need to violate a copyright "because you can get away with it because the work has no value" you should ask yourself why you're doing it. In general, respecting the rights of creators to control their creations is a principle many advocate adhering to. I've bolded significant statements which suggest that WotC seeking to protect their IP rights wouldn't be considered vindictive.

RPGA modules arguably do have commercial value. They certainly use IP which has significant commercial value - and just because this particular use of that IP is distributed to members without charge doesn't mean that the IP as a whole is valueless.

Of course the chances of Wizards (or the module authors) pursuing people who distribute modules is slim to none. But - particularly as we're on Wizards' very own forums - suggesting that it is in any way legitimate is simply false.
Skerrit
04-12-07, 09:24 AM I will also point out that the XE mods also get republished in the store retail kits. So one could argue that they are a product that money is made off of.
Shadowed Intent
04-14-07, 12:10 AM I will also point out that the XE mods also get republished in the store retail kits. So one could argue that they are a product that money is made off of.

Occassionally, these printed modules can be found for sale on ebay.

Also, if you know of a store that gets these monthly retail kits, perhaps you could ask if they have any of these old modules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
D1Tremere 03-13-07, 12:51 PM	I'm trying to drum up interist in the new Cabal of Shadows Module in the group I run, I'd like to download the first modules for the Cabal and run them to get people excited before running them in the new one but I can't find any where to get them. Does anyone know where I can find them?
Skerrit 03-14-07, 10:33 AM	They are retired.
D1Tremere 03-14-07, 10:38 AM	So once an adventure is retired there is no way to get it, even for non official games to catch people up on what there missing? If so that's very lame.
Skerrit 03-16-07, 10:38 AM	The only way to catch up is to read the summaries of the adventures posted on the XE website after each level bump.
Marcus Majarra 03-16-07, 08:16 PM	There's always the possibility of finding someone who has downloaded the adventures and have that person send you the files. However, you will be unable to play these adventures officially, so characters will receive no rewards from participating in these adventures. You could run them as home games, or even as DM's Marks (finding appropriate ways to gain access to the story items of the DM's mark you'll be running).
pedr 03-17-07, 08:15 AM	And be aware that doing that infringes the copyright of the authors and WotC and breaks RPGA rules. Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen, or that you'll not find such people willing to pass them around, but it's not something which is officially sanctioned, and not something which these boards can condone.
D1Tremere 03-17-07, 10:03 AM	Wow, games meet government style red tape. Now I know why no one I know is all that interisted in the RPGA, I think instead of me convencing them Ill just stand convenced myself to give up.
smerwin29 03-17-07, 10:30 AM	Yep. Its one of the things you have to deal with in the RPGA. When an adventure is retired, it is unavailable. As with everything, you have to weigh the benefits versus the hassles. The RPGA is not for everyone.
Xandore 04-09-07, 01:35 PM	And be aware that doing that infringes the copyright of the authors and WotC and breaks RPGA rules. Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen, or that you'll not find such people willing to pass them around, but it's not something which is officially sanctioned, and not something which these boards can condone. The amount that is typically awarded for copyright infringement tends to be based on loss of sales. Since the the adventures are not sold and are free the amount awarded would typically be $0.00. Going after this type of violation would tend to be consider vindictive and the courts tends not to look kindly upon vindictive lawsuits. Still you could be sued so you have to ask yourself is it worth it? Is it?!?
pedr 04-09-07, 02:07 PM	Alternative remedies are available for IP infringements in most jurisdictions, I believe, including requiring the destruction of the infringing copies. Pursuing legal action to vindicate copyright is not vindictive, and suggesting it could be is irresponsible. No-one should encourage the unlawful copying of RPGA adventures, even if we acknowledge that it does take place and that it would be considerably more convenient if the modules didn't retire in the same way. It's also worth noting that it constitutes 'fraud' under the RPGA rules, which can leave you banned from RPGA and DCI events.
Xandore 04-09-07, 07:04 PM	Pursuing legal action to vindicate copyright is not vindictive, and suggesting it could be is irresponsible. I stated that doing so when loss is zero is vindictive. I was basically repeating something I read. "Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive." - 10 Big Myths about copyright explained http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
pedr 04-09-07, 08:19 PM	Yes, but that's a selective reading of that section of the web-article you're basing your argument on. The whole section reads: While copyright law makes it technically illegal to reproduce almost any new creative work (other than under fair use) without permission, if the work is unregistered and has no real commercial value, it gets very little protection. The author in this case can sue for an injunction against the publication, actual damages from a violation, and possibly court costs. Actual damages means actual money potentially lost by the author due to publication, plus any money gained by the defendant. But if a work has no commercial value, such as a typical E-mail message or conversational USENET posting, the actual damages will be zero. Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive. The author's right to control what is done with a work, however, has some validity, even if it has no commercial value. If you feel you need to violate a copyright "because you can get away with it because the work has no value" you should ask yourself why you're doing it. In general, respecting the rights of creators to control their creations is a principle many advocate adhering to. I've bolded significant statements which suggest that WotC seeking to protect their IP rights wouldn't be considered vindictive. RPGA modules arguably do have commercial value. They certainly use IP which has significant commercial value - and just because this particular use of that IP is distributed to members without charge doesn't mean that the IP as a whole is valueless. Of course the chances of Wizards (or the module authors) pursuing people who distribute modules is slim to none. But - particularly as we're on Wizards' very own forums - suggesting that it is in any way legitimate is simply false.
Skerrit 04-12-07, 09:24 AM	I will also point out that the XE mods also get republished in the store retail kits. So one could argue that they are a product that money is made off of.
Shadowed Intent 04-14-07, 12:10 AM	I will also point out that the XE mods also get republished in the store retail kits. So one could argue that they are a product that money is made off of. Occassionally, these printed modules can be found for sale on ebay. Also, if you know of a store that gets these monthly retail kits, perhaps you could ask if they have any of these old modules.