This is gonna be great. [Archive] - Wizards Community

This is gonna be great. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
komsan
11-05-06, 02:12 PM Just for kicks... I'm making a human paladin of the silver flame for this campaign. It's gonna be GREAT! For my obscura, it seems like Mouners of Yore are my best choice. But I have a question...

How do I go about being lawful in most likely a group of ruffians? I know that paladins aren't all that great as a class (someone please prove me wrong), but it will be fun Rp'ing this for a while.

...at least until I can get blackguard.

"Damn the silver flame! You know what!? I'm tired of being the wet blanket!"
*Proceed to kill some random commoner*

What do you think? Would you kill me?
NobleKobold
11-05-06, 08:24 PM Oooo! I like the ex-paladin idea!
The difficulty really depends on the actions/attitudes of the rest of your party. If you're with a group that is mostly the Mourners of Yore, you'd fit in fairly easily. The Children of Xoviet on the other hand is trickier... Since they are usually chaotic evil psychopaths.
Here's the main problem:
Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.'
If ANY of the other party members are evil and fail to hide it from you, you must either leave the party (and thus the game), kill the offending PC (not advisable) or continue adventuring and immediately become an ex-paladin.

As for the party will react to you, I can think of ways around it. Maybe the Cabal has sensed (or divined) that you are destined to fall from grace, and have secretly informed your other party members of this fact beforehand. Thus the rest of the party will accept you and slowly lead you away from the paladin ideals.
That's the best way I can think around the problem.
The_Newborn
11-05-06, 10:50 PM Yes this is a fantastic idea, however as it has been pointed out, a bit tough to play. When I read the whole "Evil PC's" thing I had to supress the image of the kind of players that are 100% likely to jump at the oppertunity.

Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.'
If ANY of the other party members are evil and fail to hide it from you, you must either leave the party (and thus the game), kill the offending PC (not advisable) or continue adventuring and immediately become an ex-paladin.

The only way I can see around this is to have zero ranks in sense motive and refuse to use detect evil on those that are not suspected of any crime.

As for the party will react to you, I can think of ways around it. Maybe the Cabal has sensed (or divined) that you are destined to fall from grace, and have secretly informed your other party members of this fact beforehand. Thus the rest of the party will accept you and slowly lead you away from the paladin ideals.

On a more bastardly loophole approach to this problem you can always turn to the rules of the RPGA. Any player that reveals the evil alignment of one of the characters in your party is guilty of a Major Disruption [Unsporting Conduct] as per the penalty guide lines. Also, it is a general rule that harmful actions against PCs (by another PC) are forbidden in RPGA campaigns. The loose of class abilities as a result of another characters actions would qualify as such an infraction. The chance to play an Evil character is not an invitation to PvP conflict. Harming your allies may be an evil act but it is the only one prohibited by the RPGA.

Good luck with your character.
ispq
11-06-06, 02:51 AM Just for kicks... I'm making a human paladin of the silver flame for this campaign. It's gonna be GREAT! For my obscura, it seems like Mouners of Yore are my best choice. But I have a question...

Ulavek thanks you for telling him your Obscura. Perhaps you should have done better at Game Day at Hank's table. Vort says hi too.

p.s. We're behind you right now.
KShaver
11-06-06, 10:04 AM Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.'

Yeah, this part makes it extremely tough for more than a level or two, fortunately the first couple levels of paladin benefit blackguard the most, even if not as much as say just fighter levels would.

I've been playing LG in the Cabal, just not a paladin. Have to kinda ignore or twist the orders you're given around a bit, like pretend the orders to kill are really the orders to apologize profusely, knock them out, tie them up, possibly leave a note apologizing, and hope to complete the rest of the mission before they are found and can give away your plans.
komsan
11-07-06, 01:22 AM Ulavek thanks you for telling him your Obscura. Perhaps you should have done better at Game Day at Hank's table. Vort says hi too.

p.s. We're behind you right now.

Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol
ispq
11-07-06, 07:24 AM Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol

We always know what you are doing Komsan. We'll see you this Friday.
Errean
11-07-06, 09:57 AM Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol

I was under your bed last night. I'm always under your bed.
komsan
11-07-06, 08:45 PM ....I'm so scared....
Errean
11-08-06, 04:42 AM You should be... sleep well. I'll be over soon.
ispq
11-08-06, 04:50 AM I want to make sure I can play this Friday and not DM. Hopefully Errean and Komsan you'll both be able to play in it as well. This means we need to be nice and polite to Garrangatch, and let him know that we'd appreciate him running the mod, and that we know where he lives. I'm sure he'll make the correct choice.
Gurrangatch
11-08-06, 10:45 AM I want to make sure I can play this Friday and not DM. Hopefully Errean and Komsan you'll both be able to play in it as well. This means we need to be nice and polite to Garrangatch, and let him know that we'd appreciate him running the mod, and that we know where he lives. I'm sure he'll make the correct choice.

Hmmm, and I know all your obscura.

Well, now I can add Komsan's obscura choice to the list...the super secret list. Watch out, I write each character's obscura on the inside of a separate envelope and then fire trap each one, so it really will remain a super secret list.
komsan
11-08-06, 04:42 PM Hmmm, and I know all your obscura.

Well, now I can add Komsan's obscura choice to the list...the super secret list. Watch out, I write each character's obscura on the inside of a separate envelope and then fire trap each one, so it really will remain a super secret list.

Is this kind of like the super secret box? With the super secret string that opens the super duper secret compartment!?!!?! ZOMGWTFBBQPWNED!
Granite
11-08-06, 08:25 PM ....I'm so scared....

Your room sure does have a lot of space in it...........................especially the closet......muhahaha.......
The_Newborn
11-12-06, 10:27 PM Haha! All your Obscura are belong to us!
thearcept
11-13-06, 10:35 AM I have thought long and hard about the explination of a lawful good player in the cabal of shadows. The only thing i can think of is : Lead by example. You know your hanging out with scum, dont fret when they do scumy things. Preach!!! Dont stop them, talk to them. Dont be disruptive to their activities as that will set you agenst the group and you wouldnt be able to preach to them. Lead by example, preach, and above all try to find non lawbreaking ways to solve the problems they want to solve the easy way. In return, your party understands that you will be there for them... that you may not kill the guy when its time, but you will heal them when they get done... its handy to have a chump to take the fall... i mean a paladin around sometimes.

still up to the dm to allow it or not since you are associating with evils... mayby if they lie to you and say they are not.

"excuse me, what is this place?" - Paladin

"the cabal of shadows." - Cabal minion

"oh, that sounds evil... are you evil?" - Paladin

"no, we um are good guys disguised so we throw evil off its tracks." - Cabal minion

"oh can i help!" - Paladin

"sure sign here, no no, in blood." - Cabal minion

"oh, out of ink... we will have to acquire some for you." - Paladin

"your first assignment is to go kill this family of demons that are disguised as children in the temple just west of here. your friends from the cabal will assist you and do all the work, we need you to......"

get the drift.... lies can make him think hes doing good. just dont ever put points in sense motive.

-dave
NobleKobold
11-14-06, 07:33 AM The whole idea involves a lot of deception on the part of the other PC's and the DM (I assume several NPC's will be involved in the scam.)

The rest of the party will have to legitimise their adventuring in order for the Paladin to contribute. Be prepared for the DM to be constantly saying 'Make another Sense Motive check,' (although you could argue the -5 penalty on the check as stated in the PHB since you 'want' to believe your allies) :)

Essentially, it's a nifty character idea. Having a character turn from righteousness to corruption makes for an interesting story. But make sure everyone else knows what's expected from them before the game starts, else you'll quickly find yourself as a level 1 Ex-Paladin before the first encounter.

This is one of times when you want a Wisdom of 8. :)
DirtyBird
11-18-06, 09:05 AM I must say this is one of the best character ideas I have heard of in a LONG time. I wish you the best of luck with your DM and your group as it will take the cooperation of everyone to pull this off. The rewards should be well worth the effort however.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
komsan 11-05-06, 02:12 PM	Just for kicks... I'm making a human paladin of the silver flame for this campaign. It's gonna be GREAT! For my obscura, it seems like Mouners of Yore are my best choice. But I have a question... How do I go about being lawful in most likely a group of ruffians? I know that paladins aren't all that great as a class (someone please prove me wrong), but it will be fun Rp'ing this for a while. ...at least until I can get blackguard. "Damn the silver flame! You know what!? I'm tired of being the wet blanket!" Proceed to kill some random commoner What do you think? Would you kill me?
NobleKobold 11-05-06, 08:24 PM	Oooo! I like the ex-paladin idea! The difficulty really depends on the actions/attitudes of the rest of your party. If you're with a group that is mostly the Mourners of Yore, you'd fit in fairly easily. The Children of Xoviet on the other hand is trickier... Since they are usually chaotic evil psychopaths. Here's the main problem: Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.' If ANY of the other party members are evil and fail to hide it from you, you must either leave the party (and thus the game), kill the offending PC (not advisable) or continue adventuring and immediately become an ex-paladin. As for the party will react to you, I can think of ways around it. Maybe the Cabal has sensed (or divined) that you are destined to fall from grace, and have secretly informed your other party members of this fact beforehand. Thus the rest of the party will accept you and slowly lead you away from the paladin ideals. That's the best way I can think around the problem.
The_Newborn 11-05-06, 10:50 PM	Yes this is a fantastic idea, however as it has been pointed out, a bit tough to play. When I read the whole "Evil PC's" thing I had to supress the image of the kind of players that are 100% likely to jump at the oppertunity. Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.' If ANY of the other party members are evil and fail to hide it from you, you must either leave the party (and thus the game), kill the offending PC (not advisable) or continue adventuring and immediately become an ex-paladin. The only way I can see around this is to have zero ranks in sense motive and refuse to use detect evil on those that are not suspected of any crime. As for the party will react to you, I can think of ways around it. Maybe the Cabal has sensed (or divined) that you are destined to fall from grace, and have secretly informed your other party members of this fact beforehand. Thus the rest of the party will accept you and slowly lead you away from the paladin ideals. On a more bastardly loophole approach to this problem you can always turn to the rules of the RPGA. Any player that reveals the evil alignment of one of the characters in your party is guilty of a Major Disruption [Unsporting Conduct] as per the penalty guide lines. Also, it is a general rule that harmful actions against PCs (by another PC) are forbidden in RPGA campaigns. The loose of class abilities as a result of another characters actions would qualify as such an infraction. The chance to play an Evil character is not an invitation to PvP conflict. Harming your allies may be an evil act but it is the only one prohibited by the RPGA. Good luck with your character.
ispq 11-06-06, 02:51 AM	Just for kicks... I'm making a human paladin of the silver flame for this campaign. It's gonna be GREAT! For my obscura, it seems like Mouners of Yore are my best choice. But I have a question... Ulavek thanks you for telling him your Obscura. Perhaps you should have done better at Game Day at Hank's table. Vort says hi too. p.s. We're behind you right now.
KShaver 11-06-06, 10:04 AM	Remember the paladin code, 'you cannot adventure (knowingly) with an evil party member.' Yeah, this part makes it extremely tough for more than a level or two, fortunately the first couple levels of paladin benefit blackguard the most, even if not as much as say just fighter levels would. I've been playing LG in the Cabal, just not a paladin. Have to kinda ignore or twist the orders you're given around a bit, like pretend the orders to kill are really the orders to apologize profusely, knock them out, tie them up, possibly leave a note apologizing, and hope to complete the rest of the mission before they are found and can give away your plans.
komsan 11-07-06, 01:22 AM	Ulavek thanks you for telling him your Obscura. Perhaps you should have done better at Game Day at Hank's table. Vort says hi too. p.s. We're behind you right now. Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol
ispq 11-07-06, 07:24 AM	Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol We always know what you are doing Komsan. We'll see you this Friday.
Errean 11-07-06, 09:57 AM	Darnit! How the heck was I supposed to know you guys check these boards! Grrrr. lol I was under your bed last night. I'm always under your bed.
komsan 11-07-06, 08:45 PM	....I'm so scared....
Errean 11-08-06, 04:42 AM	You should be... sleep well. I'll be over soon.
ispq 11-08-06, 04:50 AM	I want to make sure I can play this Friday and not DM. Hopefully Errean and Komsan you'll both be able to play in it as well. This means we need to be nice and polite to Garrangatch, and let him know that we'd appreciate him running the mod, and that we know where he lives. I'm sure he'll make the correct choice.
Gurrangatch 11-08-06, 10:45 AM	I want to make sure I can play this Friday and not DM. Hopefully Errean and Komsan you'll both be able to play in it as well. This means we need to be nice and polite to Garrangatch, and let him know that we'd appreciate him running the mod, and that we know where he lives. I'm sure he'll make the correct choice. Hmmm, and I know all your obscura. Well, now I can add Komsan's obscura choice to the list...the super secret list. Watch out, I write each character's obscura on the inside of a separate envelope and then fire trap each one, so it really will remain a super secret list.
komsan 11-08-06, 04:42 PM	Hmmm, and I know all your obscura. Well, now I can add Komsan's obscura choice to the list...the super secret list. Watch out, I write each character's obscura on the inside of a separate envelope and then fire trap each one, so it really will remain a super secret list. Is this kind of like the super secret box? With the super secret string that opens the super duper secret compartment!?!!?! ZOMGWTFBBQPWNED!
Granite 11-08-06, 08:25 PM	....I'm so scared.... Your room sure does have a lot of space in it...........................especially the closet......muhahaha.......
The_Newborn 11-12-06, 10:27 PM	Haha! All your Obscura are belong to us!
thearcept 11-13-06, 10:35 AM	I have thought long and hard about the explination of a lawful good player in the cabal of shadows. The only thing i can think of is : Lead by example. You know your hanging out with scum, dont fret when they do scumy things. Preach!!! Dont stop them, talk to them. Dont be disruptive to their activities as that will set you agenst the group and you wouldnt be able to preach to them. Lead by example, preach, and above all try to find non lawbreaking ways to solve the problems they want to solve the easy way. In return, your party understands that you will be there for them... that you may not kill the guy when its time, but you will heal them when they get done... its handy to have a chump to take the fall... i mean a paladin around sometimes. still up to the dm to allow it or not since you are associating with evils... mayby if they lie to you and say they are not. "excuse me, what is this place?" - Paladin "the cabal of shadows." - Cabal minion "oh, that sounds evil... are you evil?" - Paladin "no, we um are good guys disguised so we throw evil off its tracks." - Cabal minion "oh can i help!" - Paladin "sure sign here, no no, in blood." - Cabal minion "oh, out of ink... we will have to acquire some for you." - Paladin "your first assignment is to go kill this family of demons that are disguised as children in the temple just west of here. your friends from the cabal will assist you and do all the work, we need you to......" get the drift.... lies can make him think hes doing good. just dont ever put points in sense motive. -dave
NobleKobold 11-14-06, 07:33 AM	The whole idea involves a lot of deception on the part of the other PC's and the DM (I assume several NPC's will be involved in the scam.) The rest of the party will have to legitimise their adventuring in order for the Paladin to contribute. Be prepared for the DM to be constantly saying 'Make another Sense Motive check,' (although you could argue the -5 penalty on the check as stated in the PHB since you 'want' to believe your allies) :) Essentially, it's a nifty character idea. Having a character turn from righteousness to corruption makes for an interesting story. But make sure everyone else knows what's expected from them before the game starts, else you'll quickly find yourself as a level 1 Ex-Paladin before the first encounter. This is one of times when you want a Wisdom of 8. :)
DirtyBird 11-18-06, 09:05 AM	I must say this is one of the best character ideas I have heard of in a LONG time. I wish you the best of luck with your DM and your group as it will take the cooperation of everyone to pull this off. The rewards should be well worth the effort however.