Post/Author/DateTime	Post
echoota 11-18-06, 12:25 PM	Well, our regular gaming group is starting up the Xen'drik game and everyone, long tempered by Living Greyhawk, is reaching out to every cheesy and absurd combination they can find with the options on hand. Unfortunately no one can heal in the party and I'm willing to take one for the team and make something that can heal, but I don't want to play anything vanilla at all... I've been waiting for ages to play weird monster classes or other oddball things and I'm not about to pass up the opportunity to play a boring human cleric. So, for those who have crunched more than I, what can I put together that heals at first level but also does something else with some potency? I tried to hammer out a warforged artificer who would then scribe some healing scrolls... all for the sake of the adamantium armor, but unfortunately artificers don't get heavy armor proficiency so that fell apart. Mithral just won't cut it. I want cheese and that awful mithral with the -2 armor check penalty just ain't cheesy. If only there was some way to heal with psionics, then I'd just do a half-giant, but sadly that isn't the case. I guess I could just start the half-giant off as a cleric and enjoy having a large size great sword to swing around at first level, that is cheesy, but I have to wait ages before I can get into a psionic class and start using what the race was optimized for. The whole orcs as druid thing is kind of cool theme wise, however orcs blow stat wise as a druid and with this awful 25 point build to deal with it just makes it a non starter. What hidden combo can be put together to acheive healing + awesomeness?
Japangirl 11-18-06, 07:38 PM	Favored Souls are spontaneous casters, and get access to all cleric spells. If you focus on Cha and forgo spells with saves, thus tanking wisdom, you get good saves all around, free Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec, and can choose healing and buff spells. You have lots of spells per day and are a very good melee fighter, because you can buff yourself. You also heal because you have so many spells per day and get them only 1 level behind a cleric.
Sieylianna 11-19-06, 10:16 AM	So, for those who have crunched more than I, what can I put together that heals at first level but also does something else with some potency? I tried to hammer out a warforged artificer who would then scribe some healing scrolls... all for the sake of the adamantium armor, but unfortunately artificers don't get heavy armor proficiency so that fell apart. Mithral just won't cut it. I want cheese and that awful mithral with the -2 armor check penalty just ain't cheesy. If only there was some way to heal with psionics, then I'd just do a half-giant, but sadly that isn't the case. I guess I could just start the half-giant off as a cleric and enjoy having a large size great sword to swing around at first level, that is cheesy, but I have to wait ages before I can get into a psionic class and start using what the race was optimized for. 1. Psions make nice healers, but not at first level. I have a high level egoist in living arcanis who frequently is the party healer because no one wants to play a cleric. 2. Is there a reason you can't take heavy armor proficiency as an artificer? Ed
echoota 11-19-06, 02:14 PM	1. Psions make nice healers, but not at first level. I have a high level egoist in living arcanis who frequently is the party healer because no one wants to play a cleric. 2. Is there a reason you can't take heavy armor proficiency as an artificer? Ed I'm just starting to scratch the surface of the psionic powers and it looks like there is a lot of great stuff there. Maybe the half-giant will work well. You could take the heavy armor profiency for an artificer, but not for a warforged one with the adamantium. The adamantium takes up the one feat slot you have at first level, so you'd have to trudge around for at least whole level with all the penalties associated with heavy armor, but more likely two levels until third level when you could fix the problem with another feat.
lordtiberiusfoxx 11-19-06, 10:50 PM	Now normally, I would say for the Cabal is, "who cares if your minions (the other PCs at the table) get whacked." However, for those intent on doing a healer, here goes... Cleric is still an option. Remember that in the Cabal you have an opportunity to be a cleric of the bad guys, meaning that you would have to prep your cure spells and get access to domains that you could never do elsewhere. Passion domain makes me haaaaaappy. If you have "Off the Beaten Path", Favored Soul is okay. Have you accepted the Fury as your own personal corrupter? Druids have the option of being Children of Winter. Summoning insects=awsome. While an option, recalculate how much stuff an artificer can make/purchase before going that route. If you have "Heir of Life or Dusk", then you can play a halfling with the mark of healing. Then you will qualify for the newly released evil prestige class in the Dragonmarked book. Nifty. Bards heal as of second level. In the meantime, grab a few first level commoners and use them as moblie blocking terrain. Give them staves. Who knows, with bard song, they might even hit something. If that doesn't work, run; you're only in light armor anyway. Paladins heal as of... wait, who invited him? Sorcerors/wizards gain false life as a 2nd level spell. A bit to wait, but it will work in a pinch. Also, if you use the Arcane Disciple feat with the healing domain, you gain access to cure spells. Spellthieves (I think its the Aundarian Arcanist card, but I'm not sure) can snatch an opponent's healing and use it. We have better uses for it anyway. Hope this helps. Tiberius Foxx
clem 11-20-06, 02:06 AM	Hmm...how about an Archivist/Wizard/Mystic Theurge? I see some cheesy potential there. Archivist is from Heroes of Horror and you can read up on it further here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3
KShaver 11-20-06, 10:04 AM	Master of shrouds is quite over the top, but obvioulsy not until you can get into the class. I used one for maybe 3 games and pretty much had to stop using it because it turned the majority of your super tough, high ac, high hit point big baddie encounters (giants and dragons) into childs play. Summoning multiple shadows a turn mows any low touch ac creature down fast. Nice additions to complement the ability to summon shadows are: Feat: Fell Weaken (metamagic) - Libris Mortis Domain: Necromancy - Eberron campaign setting (ray of enfeeblement as domain spell) Spell: Sheltered Vitality - Libris Mortis (For when those shadows get out of hand, i.e. rebuked) The main requirement of the class is a +5 base will save, which takes awhile normally, but throw in one level of some other primary will save class and you'll meet all the prereqs by 3rd level (I used sorcerer). Just remember that PrCs can't go on your expansion list till 5th, so you can't take it until then.
Skerrit 11-20-06, 10:42 AM	Just remember that PrCs can't go on your expansion list till 5th, so you can't take it until then. Actually, that is no longer correct (though the old MOH sheets still lead you to believe that). You may put a prestige class on your expansion list at any time. So yes, you could take your 4th-level as a Master of Shrouds.
KShaver 11-20-06, 10:52 AM	Actually, that is no longer correct (though the old MOH sheets still lead you to believe that). You may put a prestige class on your expansion list at any time. So yes, you could take your 4th-level as a Master of Shrouds. WoW, that makes you able to summon a lot of shadows (or other incorporeal undead if you fancy, though the wraith never performed that well for me) at a very low level.
smerwin29 11-20-06, 10:54 AM	Just one note on "cheesy" characters. I only speak for myself and not the other Factionmasters here, so take this for what it's worth. For the sake of campaign balance, I will recommend anything that I see as truly unbalancing be moved to the restricted list. I do not think having a truly powerful character is unbalancing, so power-gamers do not need to fear. However, sometimes people step on their own feet in this regard. They find a broken combination, and then exploit that combination in every encounter of every adventure. Soon this gets back to us, and for game balance reasons we may need to restrict part of the combination. So "cheese" at your own risk. Here's a good rule of thumb for figuring if you've gone too far. If you are using the same strategy/trick for every encounter, and that eliminates all chance of having any hope of any encounter being challenging, think again. Because what happens is we restrict one or more parts of the trick, and while you will be able to swap out whatever we restrict, you will only be allowed to swap that one piece. So if you took a less-than-useful feat to get access to a prestige class that later gets restricted, you can take other classes to replace those of the restricted class, but you will have to keep the feat. Again, this is just my opinion, and the other Factionmasters might have other opinions. But when we go to GenCon in 2007 and start running tables that all have multiple instances of a certain broken combination, it comes to our attention very quickly. Regards, Shawn Crimson Codex Guy
Skerrit 11-20-06, 04:42 PM	Shawn is right about this. Many of the things we placed on the restricted list, or clarified in the XECS, are that way because of broken combinations we have witnessed (often pointed out to us by players). Expect in general that if you could play a mod by yourself (thus making it not all that fun for the rest of the table), that we will move your cheese to the restricted pizza.
The_Newborn 11-23-06, 04:42 AM	Given the selfsevering nature of the Cabal, why not play a cleric (neg energy) who only heals himself. Say that your patrons gifts only work on you, the mortal servant. If an ally cares to disagree spontaneously convert it to an inflict spell on them. They can'y deny you the right to role-play. For fairness have it only work properly on those that passionately share your patron deity.
Marcia_S 11-25-06, 10:21 AM	My CE drow cleric of The Traveller only memorizes one CLW and CMnW spell (still 1st level), but buys scrolls to fill out a few more. Basically, if you want her to heal you, you need to have your OWN scrolls or wands AND continue to be of use to her, especially if you're neither drow, nor a worshipper of The Traveller. Marcia
Marcia_S 11-25-06, 10:22 AM	I think at some point I'm probably going to go the Theurge route, as her int is also high and it's all about POWER, baby!
Cookie Lee 11-26-06, 08:59 PM	If it matters to your build there wasd a ruling back in early MoH that 'Forged are always proficient with their own bodies. Don't know if that has carried through but it would make sense. Cookie Lee
echoota 11-27-06, 05:59 AM	Well, in the end I decided to go with a Half-Giant Cleric so I went and bought a card off of ebay. It's pretty sub-optimal, but in the end the healing I took was essential to keeping the party afloat in our first game. The healing definitely kept some people from dying and might have avoided a TPK. Since most of the party is composed of +1 level adjustment characters we're going to need that healing for quite awhile. Over time the Half-Giant should keep my interest. The psionics rules look really interesting and provide a point based "magic" system that I find far more preferable to the Vancian system. Plus, it was great clobbering people with a large size weapon right from the start. I can't hit all that well, but it does tickle the powergamer in me when I do get to toss several dice. I don't really care about playing an evil character, I'm actually going for the Soverign Host to get the domains I want and max out the combat medic role I've taken. Roleplaying is garnish for me, I'll talk with a funny voice and put some flair into my table presence, but I'm certainly not going to roleplay motivations that are a hiderance to the powergamer instinct. As for the "cheese" factor, yes, obnoxious combos that shut down the story should be restricted. I think for me it's more of a gleeful reaction to all the weird options available in XE. Having spent a year playing Living Greyhawk and all of the numerous restrictions put there it's refreshing to finally be in a living game that breaks open a vast number of options to players. I feel strongly that players should feel powerful right from the start. They shouldn't have to wait till mid level to finally feel like they can take on the world, instead that satisfaction should be given right out the gate. Far too much time and paperwork goes into the game to have to wait for a payoff. I experience that crushing reality of disciplined investment all the time in real life, but I play games to get away from that.
Butterface 11-27-06, 11:02 AM	To each his own I suppose! Personally, it's less about feeling powerful and more about telling a story through my interactions. Cabal is an opportunity to make some really rich characters, with motivations that are far from the norm, especially in the RPGA circle. I think you're missing out by taking the approach that you are, but as long as you enjoy what you do, you can't ask for more than that! Kevin
Japangirl 11-27-06, 08:47 PM	Sadly, Xen'drik isn't a living game. If it were, I'd be a lot more excited about it. It's another level bump campaign with a finite length of time to exist.
Butterface 11-27-06, 10:43 PM	Sadly, Xen'drik isn't a living game. If it were, I'd be a lot more excited about it. It's another level bump campaign with a finite length of time to exist. True. . . although a lot of good gaming can be had in 2 years.
dark_poet 12-13-06, 03:27 AM	Nice additions to complement the ability to summon shadows are: Feat: Fell Weaken (metamagic) - Libris Mortis Domain: Necromancy - Eberron campaign setting (ray of enfeeblement as domain spell) Does Fell Weaken apply to Ray of Enfeeblement (or any other spell that deals Ability damage for that matter)? Don't think it does but just checking. On a seperate note, is it a bad idea for a member of the CoS to have Blood of Vol as a religion (I didn't see anything that said they can't so I'm assuming they can).
Skerrit 12-13-06, 05:33 PM	Ray of enfeeblement doesn't do damage, it gives a strength penelty. You can't add fell weaken to it.
Wrathamon 12-15-06, 06:23 PM	Well, in the end I decided to go with a Half-Giant Cleric so I went and bought a card off of ebay. Unlock the Ardent from Complete Psionics and take the Life Mantle and then pick the other mantle as a combat mantle... Conflict, Physical or Suffering and Pain maybe? Works well with Half Giant since you have some power pts to start with.