Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bronzmonkee 10-30-06, 06:02 PM	Having just played the second Covenant of Light faction module, I am curious to know if anyone else thought the EL of the last few encounters was a little too high? I am speaking about the wagon encounter and afterwards. Perhaps it would not be so bad with a party of 2nd level characters, but for 1st level characters it seemed pretty brutal, bordering on unreasonable.
JJeff 10-30-06, 08:34 PM	I ran them for my players and I found that although they were highly taxed and irritaed, the fighter handled whatever I threw at them. I was ever sore tempted to send the dreaded "second wave". I think that the encounters require a balanced party and good teamwork, but it is not impossible for a group of level 1s unless it is their first adventure. I know most of my players were alive due to them using their EV to buy one 10-charge wand for the party in general (Knight with package bought it and lent it to the druid) and a CLW potion each (except the Knight I think). Without the healing, I would agree it is tough. Although not as bad as the first CoL Adventure where the enemy can take down a PC in one blow...
Mherduwynn 10-31-06, 03:20 AM	Point of note, the modules (in both cares) were indeed tough. In the adventure text for the DM, it's mentioned that there are ways to tone things down if needed. Both adventures were written to support the theme that in Eberron, being good is NOT easy. :) It sounds like both of you managed to get through the encounters though. Please remember, everyone in the group doesn't have to be standing when the fight's over. That's why magical healing, the Heal skill, etc exists in the first place... And yeah, in CoL1 there IS an encounter where one of the enemies is quite capable of taking down a PC in a single hit... ...he then, in every playtest done of the module, falls down like a crash test dummy in a Miata. It's not drama if people walk away with paper cuts. :) -August
KShaver 10-31-06, 10:59 AM	Both the 1 and 2 modules for CoL are very tough, but the 1st one we were at least able to scrape through. The 2nd CoL module we got our behinds handed to us in the last encounter (the previous one cleaned out a lot of our resources). I think that the encounters require a balanced party and good teamwork, but it is not impossible for a group of level 1s unless it is their first adventure. Our groups was four 1st level characters, 3 of them was their first run, 1 had module one played. Didn't stand a chance. I know most of my players were alive due to them using their EV to buy one 10-charge wand for the party in general (Knight with package bought it and lent it to the druid) and a CLW potion each (except the Knight I think). Being the only one with EV I couldn't afford a 10 charge wand w/o the healing package (Spent expansion slot 1 on augment healing feat), so did what I thought best and bought a single healing pot with what I had...shoulda bought a couple of scrolls instead. You might find it funny that things were soo bad in the last encounter that when I was one of the last 2 standing and completely tapped on spells I made a tactical withdraw and stepped outside the dome and asked a certain very large NPC to help (we had used detect evil on him already, so I thought it might work)...after the fear wore off I got to see the ending events and arrived back to collect my unconscious comrades. They don't beleive the outrageous story I told them, of course I did embelish a little on my contributions to the matter.
bronzmonkee 10-31-06, 04:41 PM	It's not drama if people walk away with paper cuts. :) It is my contention that there is a very fine line between drama and a TPK, especially at 1st level. Keep in mind that not everyone is playing a broken, combat orientated character build. :(
smerwin29 10-31-06, 05:50 PM	Taking this discussion from the specific to the general . . . This same conversation plays out on hundreds of message boards over dozens of campaigns. There is always back and forth, and in the end it really doesn't serve any purpose. Having been on both sides of similar issues as a player, DM, writer, editor, administrator, etc., let me offer the following suggestion. If you have a problem with something in an adventure, don't come to a public forum and air the problem, even if it is couched as a question in polite terms. If you have a problem, first contact the Factionmaster. Since in most cases the Factionmaster is going to be the writer, he can most likely answer your concerns without having to spoil the adventure for people who haven't played. And yes, even saying as little as what was said here is a spoiler. If you are not satisfied with the answers you get from the Factionmaster and/or module author, you can then take your concerns up the line to the person in charge of the Factionmasters, who is now Chris Tulach. I say all of this not in anger or anything of the sort. I understand that people are going to have questions and comments, but lots and lots of experience have taught me that these things are best handled and discussed outside of the public forum--for many reasons. Thanks, Shawn Crimson Codex Guy
KShaver 11-01-06, 09:21 AM	If you have a problem, first contact the Factionmaster. Since in most cases the Factionmaster is going to be the writer, he can most likely answer your concerns without having to spoil the adventure for people who haven't played. Hadn't even crossed my mind, that would certainly be a more productive manner of resolving the problem. I'll have to mention it to each of our faction DMs. I know the CoL GM had concerns over this module ahead of time, but probably didn't know where to get answers on his questions. If you have a problem with something in an adventure, don't come to a public forum and air the problem, even if it is couched as a question in polite terms. And yes, even saying as little as what was said here is a spoiler. Aww, but then where are we going to vent when we get our teeth kicked in? ;)
Mherduwynn 11-01-06, 10:18 AM	Please, if you have grievances, please come speak with me about them. As both the author and the factionmaster involved, I can assure you that if there was anything approaching a TPK invilved in the module, something wasn't handled correctly. Regardless, trying to air your grievances on a public forum (just as Shawn has said) is not the way to get anything resolved. It is, however, a really good way to annoy me. :) -A
Sieylianna 11-02-06, 08:21 AM	Please, if you have grievances, please come speak with me about them. As both the author and the factionmaster involved, I can assure you that if there was anything approaching a TPK invilved in the module, something wasn't handled correctly. I have to say that the 1st faction and DM CoL modules were probably the toughest of the first round of modules among all the factions. We should have all died in the first module (4 player table and DM rolling lots of criticals) and as a result we're only still 1st level for the second faction adventure, so I'm expecting that to go poorly too. I recall saying (or thinking) a number of tiimes, that the module would be much easier for my CoS character. Ed
Mherduwynn 11-02-06, 10:38 PM	*shrugs* We ran four playtests before the first module was published and it rane dozens of times at GenCon Indy. There were NO TPKS and while the scenario had a few rough spots for groups that went in unprepared or had bad luck (which can happen in any mod), it was a success at every table reported. As the author, I am very sorry if it has seemed rough for any of you but going in with 4 players AND having the dice turn against you is not really a fair commentary on the challenge level of the module. I am always open to feedback and I encourage anyone to use the private message option above or mail me at mherduwynn@gmail.com with any commentary they might have. Please, feel free to discuss anything with me you wish. Thank you again, -August
Evanta 11-05-06, 10:17 PM	For us, most having played COL 1, it was actually easy till the final 2 encounters. Ok so I went down in 1 hit (crit) at the first encounter during the surprise round. :P What hit me? :mad: Beyond that however, we didn't even take damage along the way till the very last 2 encounters, between the use of action points, mage save-or-die, and DR2/- warforged fighters. :D Lovely thing was that the warforged were also immune to most status effects inflicted on them, the party just cowered behind them and cheered for the most part. :D I would note that COL2 would definitely be extremely hard for those who have never played COL1 though. I would have just lain unconscious for the rest of the scenario if the party did not have healing pots to revive me.
Mherduwynn 11-08-06, 03:17 PM	<chuckles> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the conundrum of why it is basically impossible to have modules perfectly balanced. The same encounter has to serve elven bards with an 8 Constitution AND Warforged fighters with DR and Cleave. As writers, we never know what parties will be going through the adventures. Thus, we HAVE to base things on averages. For those who are interested, I run my playtests with a group of five players using ONLY the pregenerated characters. All basic roles are filled (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue) and the fifth is a wild card. Every playtest, it's a random draw between the others with never the same one twice in a row. Just a peek behind the scenes, -August
thearcept 11-12-06, 09:15 AM	I am a Dm, i had 4 players play this adventure and they were all level 1's. They defeated every single encounter without me having to lower the encounters down like it says to do for 1st levels. They did have to use tons of Healing potions though. It might have been the class combinations and gaming experience of either the dm or the combined players that made it so difficult for your group. the encounters were designed to be challenging...they were not overbalanced in my opinion.
Butterface 12-02-06, 10:08 PM	A wand of cure light wounds and a heavy warhorse named Titan took this adventure out to the woodshed. :) No more riding horses for this Knight! Kevin