Post/Author/DateTime	Post
raalynthslair 08-05-06, 06:02 PM	I couldn't help but notice that the other factions are getting "perks" like extra money (Blackwheel) and Dragonmark feats (Blackwheel) without C.Cards, the level 6 minimum prestige classes being available without pre-req's being a concern (Qabal & the Blackguard), or the "touch of shadow" and the COL's "Blessing of Light" ability... but there are NO prestige classes unlocked for us, NO special classes or spells available... Is there going to be anything for the Codex members (aside from a large number of intellectual-based classes with 2 skill points per level? ;) ) I know we CAN get the glyphbook, but to my knowledge it'd take two feats for any of the classes to get it and use it to the fullest (get the +2 research bonus) and at least one for almost all classes/characters to get to use it the same... and in some cases at least one just to get it... Thanks for any info. ~ Z o r ~
smerwin29 08-05-06, 06:34 PM	You get to play mods I write. Consider yourself blessed . . . :eek: OK, but seriously. The "perk" is you can play a spellscale or a skarn, and you can play a dragon shaman, incarnate, or totemist. You can also be from Seren. Other "perks" may happen in play. The free Knowledge skill(s) and the Crimson Glyphbook may not seem that great to you, but I'm sure others find it nice. It can be especially nice when qualifying for prestige classes with a Knowledge prerequisite. Shawn
Harliquinn 08-05-06, 10:43 PM	You can also be from Seren. Shawn I have a question. Does being from Seren unlock the Seren-required Feats such as Dragon Totem? Does it at least make them non-restricted and allowed to be put on expansion lists?
smerwin29 08-05-06, 10:45 PM	I do not have an answer to that. I hope they will. Shawn
raalynthslair 08-05-06, 10:57 PM	You get to play mods I write. Consider yourself blessed . . . :eek: Now THAT is something to look forward to. ^_^ *lol* Good one. Very good. ^_^ OK, but seriously. The "perk" is you can play a spellscale or a skarn, and you can play a dragon shaman, incarnate, or totemist. You can also be from Seren. Other "perks" may happen in play. The free Knowledge skill(s) and the Crimson Glyphbook may not seem that great to you, but I'm sure others find it nice. It can be especially nice when qualifying for prestige classes with a Knowledge prerequisite. Shawn Much like the Aesimere and Tieflings for someone - and the half Daelkyre (and I KNOW I had to have butchered at least two of those race names, if not all three, sorry :uh-huh: )... I agree knowledge skills are very useful (any are, I am a skills player often) but with 2 skill points per level for most "learned" type classes (Wiz for example) a 16 INT still only gives 6 points TOTAL per level (5 if you're not human) and one of the prestige classes I was looking at (Loremaster I think) required 10 ranks in TWO different knowledge skills (10 in EACH) so you'd have to be level 7 minimum { and even then sinking 20 points into a pair of skills would be no less than roughly 50% of all your skill points earned at that level} unless the pre-req. is waived like the Base Attack +6 (et al) for the Black Guard is for {QOS or BWC - I forget which gets access to that prestige class - }. Now THAT sort of "perk" would be awesome, as it would allow for us to actually be able to make it into that class (barring any other pre-req's if they all aren't waived - which is the condition for the Blackguard). =-=-= Chaning gears here... =-=-= And how does one, this is another topic entirely, sorry to shift gears on you like this - sorry I am really trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this "Expansion slot" thing and how it all works out to what is and isn't allowed, what does and doesn't need a slot, and what is and isn't unlocked/unlockable and what-not - BUT... Say I was going to make a cleric. Now I was thinking Halfling, but I saw somewhere that someone wanting to do a cleric (of some other race) had to list the god/domain as the expansion slot - therefore I am automatically barred from the Halfling race as it is not their favored class, and I only have one expansion slot at level one? Else, if I did put cleric, I'd not be able to identify a god/domain in that slot - thus what sort of cleric would I really be? Now as human we have no prefered class, so I could put Cleric down as it (I get that free, ne?) and I could then choose the domain for the expansion slot? Basically, human is the only way - and still that burns the expansion slot so no creation cards can be used/nor any alternate class abilities? How does one go about doing this? Not to menion the "expansion 'packages'" that the guidelines list for us - I couldn't opt for one of those, therefore most of the items are at 5x cost (Cure Light Wounds potion becomes 250 gold, more than Cleric even starts with) and barring any "common" (I assume that basic equipment is NOT at a higher cost and not an expansion slot thing and is bought as normal?) items there's really no way (other than using the expansion slot) to be able to get/afford-to-get these other sorts of items (as they'd put you over the max items gold cost limit per level quickly until upper-low level/lower-mid level. Sorry if this all sounds dumb. I am just failing to grasp how this whole thing works and is supposed to work. Once I get it I'll be fine, and I really hate to be a pain. It's just all terribly convulted to me - and it's me, everyone (mostly, aside from a few things I've seen on several threads I've read) else seems to be doing ok with it... So please be patient (or someone who gets this all - please e-mail me off-list and help, I'd be much appreciative). ~ Z o r ~
Moribund 08-06-06, 12:43 AM	Zor, Cleric and Halfling are unlimited classes and races. You don't need an expansion slot to have those. You need to use an expansion slot to unlock items, spells, or feats from secondary sources. At certain levels they can also unlock prestige classes. Your first level has some additional options. For instance your cleric can choose to worship the Dragon Above and you can select on non-restricted domain for your first level expansion slot. Campaign cards are independent of your expansion list.
clem 08-06-06, 03:23 AM	You get to play mods I write. Consider yourself blessed . . . :eek: OK, but seriously. The "perk" is you can play a spellscale or a skarn, and you can play a dragon shaman, incarnate, or totemist. You can also be from Seren. Other "perks" may happen in play. The free Knowledge skill(s) and the Crimson Glyphbook may not seem that great to you, but I'm sure others find it nice. It can be especially nice when qualifying for prestige classes with a Knowledge prerequisite. Shawn My only objection to the perks is that the Codex Codex is the only faction that doesn't unlock a race that's in the 3.5 Core texts. Which, of course, means I have to buy a supplement book in order to take advantage of a racial perk. Which wouldn't necessarily be a problem until you consider that some of the supplements have been really mixed bags. I'm just tingling with anticipation for the day when "Complete NPC" is released. Think of all the potential prestige classes and feats that can be utilitized with warriors and adepts, not to mention the brand new innkeeper base class.
Harliquinn 08-06-06, 09:46 AM	None of the 'core' 3.5 texts (PHB, DMG, and ECS for this campaign) require unlocking a race. Each faction unlocks 2 races and 3 classes that are not 'core' or 'standard'. Codex: Skarn, Spellscale (Dragon shaman, Incarnate, Totemist) - Perk: Knowledge Skills as Class Skills / Glyphbook Blackwheel: Gnoll, Warforged Scout (Warmage, Marshal, Scout) - Perk: Extra EV Cabal: Tiefling, Daelkyr Half-Blood (Beguiler, Duskblade, Warlock) - Perk: Can be Evil OR Shadow Power Light: Raptoran, Aasimar (Favored Soul, Knight, Soulborn) - Perk: Prayer I don't see what you are asking about and saying that the Codex has 'less' than anyone else. If you mean that the Aasimar, Tieflings, and Gnolls are all at least in the Monster Manual but the Skarn and Spellscale are not, well there is not much that can be done about that. I am sure you could just write down the relevant information or photocopy it from someone (Actually I don't know if you 'need' to bring the source of material that's considered 'unlocked' by your faction). Harliquinn
Herrbard 08-06-06, 10:10 AM	I am sure you could just write down the relevant information or photocopy it from someone (Actually I don't know if you 'need' to bring the source of material that's considered 'unlocked' by your faction). Yes, you would need to bring along the information for anything outside the core books (PH, DMG, MM, and ECS). This info isn't necessarily for you, but for the GM. Any GM is within his rights to challenge something outside the Core books. If you cannot produce it, it is within his/her rights to not allow it at the table. This is for a couple reasons: 1. GMs don't have to have every book in publication at the table. If you want it, you bring it. 2. It saves arguing over a lot of issues. "Here it is, right from the book" is the best answer to have for those issues. Say you want to play a skarn incarnate, but the GM has no idea of what that is because she/he doesn't own Magic of Incarnum. If you bring the info, then it is legal. If you do not have that info available, then sorry, no skarn incarnate because the GM doesn't know how to adjudicate it, and I don't care how trustworthy you are, some folks will just take advantage. (Oh, yeah, well, incarnates get 14 first level spells, and skarn have a BAB of +4 and a natural armor bonus of +6 at character creation, with no level advancement. Yeah, that's how I remember it!) :rolleyes: All that being said, I usually don't challenge a lot of stuff unless I see something blatently wrong. I have the books (I'm a packrat) so I'm at least familiar with the concepts and can make an informed ruling. But a GM only has to have the four books mentioned above to be legal, and you are responsible for anything else you use, faction unlocked or not.
kiddoc 08-06-06, 10:30 AM	Warforged Scout, Daelkyr Halfblood, and Raptoran all appear in sources other than the ECS, PHB, MM, and DMG. As I see it, non-core is just extra-damned-cool. A quick 2 page photocopy solves all your problems. You'd have to do it if you chose one race from any of the other faction unlocks as well (see above). Same would go if you got very cool story objects or unique adventure cards that let you unlock some other non-core race. These are the sacrifices you'd have to make. That said, I've played for some time now, and I never felt like a 2-3 pages worth of photocopies were a major sacrifice.
clem 08-06-06, 11:56 AM	Warforged Scout, Daelkyr Halfblood, and Raptoran all appear in sources other than the ECS, PHB, MM, and DMG. This is true. However, the Gnoll, Tiefling, and Aasimer races all allow a player in the respective faction to create a more unique character without shelling out thirty dollars at their local gaming store. My point -- and it wasn't a very profound one -- was just that unlocking a race from the Monster Manual throws a bone to those players who are either fiscally challenged or who can't bring themselves to be compulsive collectors of supplement rulebooks. I'm fine with the factions using supplements to give characters more options, but it's nice when one of the unlocks offered doesn't require a new rulebook.
raalynthslair 08-06-06, 03:40 PM	None of the 'core' 3.5 texts (PHB, DMG, and ECS for this campaign) require unlocking a race. Each faction unlocks 2 races and 3 classes that are not 'core' or 'standard'. I didn't mean it to sound like we've got nothing, but only Bard and Wizard have all knowledge skills as class skills that I know of (unsure of Artificer, and the other base classes we can select), so for the rest ONLY a human can get the glyphbook and use it for more than just a +1 to a knowledge skill roll (does that apply to all or to one or two skills (like the "Education" feat the gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills, it only adds +1 to two of them) unless a class provides one of the feats needed; and you'd need "reasearch" to be able to get the +2 bonus on a variety of subjects out of the book. So a human could get both feats, I don't know of any class the gives you either of those to start with; so it's almost a moot point - it is a nice perk to the few that can get it. But to the rest of the Codex... ? That was all I was asking about... It's kind of hard to see something as a perk when it requires you to either play one of two (maybe three or four) classes or spend most or all your starting character feats to even obtain - much less benefit from. And let's face it, with the worst skill points, worst attack bonus progression, worst save throw progression, and NO FEATS beyond level 1; and in here, 2 HP per level you have the same HP as the common "domesticated" cat (ie: HOUSE CAT) and 1/3 as many as the common dog... That's ugly! That book better weigh a ton, b/c those common house critters can just straight up MAUL YOU! :rofl: (Actually I don't know if you 'need' to bring the source of material that's considered 'unlocked' by your faction). Actually according to the rules thing somewhere it said if it is NOT in the core book(s) it NEEDS to be brought along for easy reference else you can't/don't use it. So yea, we WILL need to have them; not to mention you can't rightly make a character with a race that's not readily known or accessible (or of a class that isn't)... And I understand the books are what they are, they can't do much about that (as campaign staff I mean); but when all of our "unlocked" stuff comes from these other non-core books it's harsh... then there's that whole house cat thing for one of the two "set up for the item" classes). :P And I revise my earlier remark, I see where I misread something regarding that prestige class, I am assuming that "all role-playing prerequisites" will NOT waive the mechanical ones too - that was a misread from earlier, so consider that striken. ^_^;
Harliquinn 08-06-06, 05:00 PM	Well the Codex gives you a free set of Knowledge skills as Class Skills (up to INT modifier) OR if you already have all knowledge skills as class skills, it gives the Glyphbook. The glyphbook is the alternative feature for bards and wizards (And those who take Education), it is not the 'main' item that you have to take a feat to get. The research feat isn't 'needed' to make use of the glyphbook, it just lets you use the glyphbook as a research library instead of going to a library. It turns out I was wrong about the sources and what you have to bring.
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 10:16 AM	Well the Codex gives you a free set of Knowledge skills as Class Skills (up to INT modifier) OR if you already have all knowledge skills as class skills, it gives the Glyphbook. The glyphbook is the alternative feature for bards and wizards (And those who take Education), it is not the 'main' item that you have to take a feat to get. The research feat isn't 'needed' to make use of the glyphbook, it just lets you use the glyphbook as a research library instead of going to a library. It turns out I was wrong about the sources and what you have to bring. It's alright, I was wrong about the prestige class thing written plain as day right in front of me. At least you don't have to chalk yours up to a "dope moment" like me. *lol* But that said, I do appreciate the clarification and the 'debate' from differing point of view - it always helps to keep things in good perspective. As for the Glyphbook, true you can use it for a +1 bonus to Knowledge skills for "Bardic Knowledge", "Investigate", and "for analyzing clues" (whatever skill THAT would fall under - likely dependent on the clue itself I'd say). THAT is severely limited, and the +2 Research bonus ONLY applies to those with the Research feat and is great for all things Xen'drink (and some great information on Draconic Prophecy too) - However, it is hardly "the most important book in the universe that which [humanoids] have every created" And let's not forget it fails to bear the all important cover words to make it so darned valuable to everyone - "Don't Panic!" ^_~
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 10:19 AM	My point -- and it wasn't a very profound one -- was just that unlocking a race from the Monster Manual throws a bone to those players who are either fiscally challenged or who can't bring themselves to be compulsive collectors of supplement rulebooks. I'm fine with the factions using supplements to give characters more options, but it's nice when one of the unlocks offered doesn't require a new rulebook. And I tend to agree, quite unprofoundly as well, that this is rather an upsetting inescapable (mostly) hitch... especially since by the time the faction details were released it was literally too late to do anything about which one you chose to play in at GenCon (which we had to do basically blind based on the names of the factions alone). Maybe some nice players with the book(s) in question could e-mail some of us less-financially (or less-avid collectors by habit) apt gamers a few general ideas about these races/classes (like, are they humanoid, are they goblinoid, are they furry, have four arms and 8 eyes, are they grey and green or are they pink and yellow with teeny tiny polka dots all over their bodies?). ;)
Harliquinn 08-07-06, 10:34 AM	First, the Glyphbook also gives a +1 bonus to all Knowledge Skills. That's pretty nice. The Bard, investigate and Research bonuse are in addition. Also don't forget the Glyphbook's 'normal' bonus of +4 on Decipher Script rolls for deciperhing Xen'drik ruins. (from the ECS) Second, the races and a brief run down: Skarn: Reptilian humanoids with spines on their body, but otherwise look fairly human. Arm spines are natural weapons. Tend towards lawful, haughty and view themselves superior. Spellscale: Dragon-blooded humanoids with draconic features and a (changeable each day) meditation each day that gives a minor skill bonus and a limited-use feat (Usually meta-magic) Gnoll: In the MM Warforged Scout: "Small" size warforged with bonus to dex and minus on strength (in addition to normal warforged traits). Tiefling: In the MM Daelkyr Half-Blood: Have the blood of Daelkyr as humanoid. Gain a free symbiont and the Symbiont mastery feat. Aasimar: In the MM Raptoran: Flying bird people with cleric favored class. They get to 'fly' by I think level 12 but can glide and hover until then.
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 11:00 AM	First, the Glyphbook also gives a +1 bonus to all Knowledge Skills. That's pretty nice. The Bard, investigate and Research bonuse are in addition. Also don't forget the Glyphbook's 'normal' bonus of +4 on Decipher Script rolls for deciperhing Xen'drik ruins. (from the ECS) Second, the races and a brief run down: Skarn: Reptilian humanoids with spines on their body, but otherwise look fairly human. Arm spines are natural weapons. Tend towards lawful, haughty and view themselves superior. Spellscale: Dragon-blooded humanoids with draconic features and a (changeable each day) meditation each day that gives a minor skill bonus and a limited-use feat (Usually meta-magic) Gnoll: In the MM Warforged Scout: "Small" size warforged with bonus to dex and minus on strength (in addition to normal warforged traits). Tiefling: In the MM Daelkyr Half-Blood: Have the blood of Daelkyr as humanoid. Gain a free symbiont and the Symbiont mastery feat. Aasimar: In the MM Raptoran: Flying bird people with cleric favored class. They get to 'fly' by I think level 12 but can glide and hover until then. THAT is awesome. Thank you. ^_^
Sieylianna 08-30-06, 06:00 PM	I agree knowledge skills are very useful (any are, I am a skills player often) but with 2 skill points per level for most "learned" type classes (Wiz for example) a 16 INT still only gives 6 points TOTAL per level You're not recognizing the value of adding knowledge skills as class skills. Let's say you're a cleric or favored soul and want to boost your healing. Pick up the Magic of the Land feat (RotW) and make knowledge - Nature your bonus knowledge skill. Or you want to go for the dragon disciple prestige class - you can get by with one level of sorcerer to go with your barbarian levels. Pick up knowledge - religion for your favored soul so you can actually qualify for a prestige class. Ed