Dragon Shamans and Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Shamans and Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rewth
10-06-06, 11:11 PM Given that alignment in eberron, especially that of the dragons is so VERY different compared to other dnd worlds, do dragon shamans need abide by the alignment restrictions listed for each type of dragon?

the eberron expanded article by kieth baker on the PH2 classes in eberron says:

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20060911a
"According to the Player's Handbook II, the alignment of a dragon shaman must be within one step of the dragon he emulates. However, in Eberron, the alignment of a dragon is not fixed by its color -- nor are worshipers traditionally bound by the alignment of their deities. As such, a DM may wish to remove the alignment restriction. With that said, dragon shamans should typically follow the perceived alignment of their draconic patrons. For example, although blue dragons can be any alignment, the Storm Guardians of Adar are seen as noble beings -- so a dragon shaman who emulates these blue wyrms will usually be good."

sounds like something that should be added to the CS if it's allowed, and personally, I'd love to see this (as would a character in my games).
The_Newborn
10-10-06, 02:11 AM Hey if Keith says it it must be true. ;P
Butterface
10-10-06, 09:25 AM Yeah I would allow it in a home game, I too was wondering about RPGA though.

You could very easily have a Lawful Good Red Dragon in Eberron, no reason why a Dragon Shaman that couldn't choose that totem and be Lawful good.

I'd imagine we'd need the go-ahead from someone though before ignoring a core restriction of a class.

PS My Dragon Shaman ended up being CN (White Dragon Totem). It worked out, that's ok for Crimson Codex. :D
The_Newborn
10-10-06, 09:44 AM I'd imagine we'd need the go-ahead from someone though before ignoring a core restriction of a class.

PS My Dragon Shaman ended up being CN (White Dragon Totem). It worked out, that's ok for Crimson Codex. :D

As do I. CN (White Dragon Totem) eh? Sounds interesting. What spin of CN did you use?
Butterface
10-10-06, 10:20 AM As do I. CN (White Dragon Totem) eh? Sounds interesting. What spin of CN did you use?

There is a tribe of Seren Barbarians described in Player's Guide to Eberron, The White Wanderers.

"The White Wanderers were founded by a Neutral White Dragon. It is a nomadic tribe that has been charged with protecting a series of shrines. The Wanderers believe in the power of knowledge and magic, and they have a high percentage of literacy and dragonspeakers among them. As such, many explorers find this the safest tribe to approach. White Wanderers have a cold, chilly demeanor and never let their emotions show."

This seemed perfect for Crimson Codex imo. Cadar is not concerned with relevance of good/evil in his quest, but rather in simply being guided by the Draconic Prophecy as he attains a higher form of being (becoming more dragon-like). He broke away from his tribe because he believed that the Prophecy began speaking directly to him, directing him to seek out Esoteric knowledge tied to the Prophecy. In other words, he hears voices in his head. (Dragon Prophesier feat).

Every rare once in a while (about once a game session or two), I go into Prophetic Favor, describe my eyes as glazing over and slowly rolling back in my head, and begin reciting lines of the Draconic Prophecy, for pure RP purposes. REALLY creeps my group out, hehe.
Rewth
10-23-06, 04:33 PM seeing no mention of this in the campaign standards doc i'm guessing hte powers that be have nixed the idea. that, or they simply didn't see the thread...

smerwin, any chance we could convince you to weigh in on it, even long enough to say "sorry, couldn't make it happen" or "nope. bad plan, stick with the restriction as written"?

translation: bump.
smerwin29
10-23-06, 06:30 PM Simply put, we need a very good reason to change rules as written. The alignment blurring of Eberron is a good reason, but I don't know if it is a very good reason. We also have to answer to WotC on changes.

If we do make that change to the rules as written, it will appear in the final draft of the CS.

Shawn
Butterface
10-23-06, 07:41 PM Thanks Shawn - I'm definitely in favor of changing the alignment restriction on dragon shamans. I think there is a very good reason: dragon shamans revere/aspire to be like dragons, and dragons in Eberron play havoc with the traditional alignment restrictions that dragons are normally viewed with.

For instance, in Player's Guide to Eberron, a Seren barbarian tribe called the Frostblades are described. They were founded by a Lawful Good White dragon. According to the Dragon Shaman alignment table, a dragon shaman from that tribe would only be able to be some flavor of Neutral or Evil.

Personally I found a way to work with the alignment restriction and be happy with the result. I'm always in favor of more character options though, especially on something that really has no effect on game balance.
Tarvok
10-23-06, 10:01 PM I say bring your lawful good red dragon shaman to the table and see what happens! :p

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rewth 10-06-06, 11:11 PM	Given that alignment in eberron, especially that of the dragons is so VERY different compared to other dnd worlds, do dragon shamans need abide by the alignment restrictions listed for each type of dragon? the eberron expanded article by kieth baker on the PH2 classes in eberron says: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20060911a "According to the Player's Handbook II, the alignment of a dragon shaman must be within one step of the dragon he emulates. However, in Eberron, the alignment of a dragon is not fixed by its color -- nor are worshipers traditionally bound by the alignment of their deities. As such, a DM may wish to remove the alignment restriction. With that said, dragon shamans should typically follow the perceived alignment of their draconic patrons. For example, although blue dragons can be any alignment, the Storm Guardians of Adar are seen as noble beings -- so a dragon shaman who emulates these blue wyrms will usually be good." sounds like something that should be added to the CS if it's allowed, and personally, I'd love to see this (as would a character in my games).
The_Newborn 10-10-06, 02:11 AM	Hey if Keith says it it must be true. ;P
Butterface 10-10-06, 09:25 AM	Yeah I would allow it in a home game, I too was wondering about RPGA though. You could very easily have a Lawful Good Red Dragon in Eberron, no reason why a Dragon Shaman that couldn't choose that totem and be Lawful good. I'd imagine we'd need the go-ahead from someone though before ignoring a core restriction of a class. PS My Dragon Shaman ended up being CN (White Dragon Totem). It worked out, that's ok for Crimson Codex. :D
The_Newborn 10-10-06, 09:44 AM	I'd imagine we'd need the go-ahead from someone though before ignoring a core restriction of a class. PS My Dragon Shaman ended up being CN (White Dragon Totem). It worked out, that's ok for Crimson Codex. :D As do I. CN (White Dragon Totem) eh? Sounds interesting. What spin of CN did you use?
Butterface 10-10-06, 10:20 AM	As do I. CN (White Dragon Totem) eh? Sounds interesting. What spin of CN did you use? There is a tribe of Seren Barbarians described in Player's Guide to Eberron, The White Wanderers. "The White Wanderers were founded by a Neutral White Dragon. It is a nomadic tribe that has been charged with protecting a series of shrines. The Wanderers believe in the power of knowledge and magic, and they have a high percentage of literacy and dragonspeakers among them. As such, many explorers find this the safest tribe to approach. White Wanderers have a cold, chilly demeanor and never let their emotions show." This seemed perfect for Crimson Codex imo. Cadar is not concerned with relevance of good/evil in his quest, but rather in simply being guided by the Draconic Prophecy as he attains a higher form of being (becoming more dragon-like). He broke away from his tribe because he believed that the Prophecy began speaking directly to him, directing him to seek out Esoteric knowledge tied to the Prophecy. In other words, he hears voices in his head. (Dragon Prophesier feat). Every rare once in a while (about once a game session or two), I go into Prophetic Favor, describe my eyes as glazing over and slowly rolling back in my head, and begin reciting lines of the Draconic Prophecy, for pure RP purposes. REALLY creeps my group out, hehe.
Rewth 10-23-06, 04:33 PM	seeing no mention of this in the campaign standards doc i'm guessing hte powers that be have nixed the idea. that, or they simply didn't see the thread... smerwin, any chance we could convince you to weigh in on it, even long enough to say "sorry, couldn't make it happen" or "nope. bad plan, stick with the restriction as written"? translation: bump.
smerwin29 10-23-06, 06:30 PM	Simply put, we need a very good reason to change rules as written. The alignment blurring of Eberron is a good reason, but I don't know if it is a very good reason. We also have to answer to WotC on changes. If we do make that change to the rules as written, it will appear in the final draft of the CS. Shawn
Butterface 10-23-06, 07:41 PM	Thanks Shawn - I'm definitely in favor of changing the alignment restriction on dragon shamans. I think there is a very good reason: dragon shamans revere/aspire to be like dragons, and dragons in Eberron play havoc with the traditional alignment restrictions that dragons are normally viewed with. For instance, in Player's Guide to Eberron, a Seren barbarian tribe called the Frostblades are described. They were founded by a Lawful Good White dragon. According to the Dragon Shaman alignment table, a dragon shaman from that tribe would only be able to be some flavor of Neutral or Evil. Personally I found a way to work with the alignment restriction and be happy with the result. I'm always in favor of more character options though, especially on something that really has no effect on game balance.
Tarvok 10-23-06, 10:01 PM	I say bring your lawful good red dragon shaman to the table and see what happens! :p