Racial Substitution Level help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial Substitution Level help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ank
02-07-07, 08:14 PM I'm thinking about taking the racial substitution levels for the dragonblood sorceror, but ive got a problem. You have to take the substitution level at your first level, and this allows you to gain the feat "dragon heritage" as a bonus feat. Howeverm this is an expansion item, so are you allowed to take it anyway? Ive got the same problem with the Dragon mage prestige class from RotD that allows bonus draconic feats at a faster rate than you can unlock them.
Skerrit
02-07-07, 11:21 PM I don't have a book in front of me, but they specify a specific feat right? That means it gets unlocked along with the racial substitution level.
ank
02-08-07, 07:22 AM Yes, racial substitution sets a specific feat, so ive got that taken care of then, but just out of curiosity, how about dragon mage? They only get "bonus Draconic feat?"
Skerrit
02-08-07, 09:42 AM That one sounds problematic, but I don't have my books with me to check the wording. It sounds like a combination that without a card, you likely can't do. Not everything is possible. The rules give you alot more flexibility, but they don't allow everything.
Harliquinn
02-08-07, 10:06 AM Yes, racial substitution sets a specific feat, so ive got that taken care of then, but just out of curiosity, how about dragon mage? They only get "bonus Draconic feat?"

If I remember earlier comments about this type of thing, the ruling at the time (It may have changed or I might have remembered it wrong) was that if a class that you unlock has a finite set of feats then it also unlocked those set of feats from the same source. In other words, if you took Dragon Mage, and it offered a bonus Draconic Feat, then you could take a Draconic Feat from the book the Dragon Mage was in. Draconic Feats in other sources would need to be unlocked normally. Again this is my memory so it's not 100% :)

I remember this didn't work with Fighter Feats because there is no 'type' called "Fighter Feat"; it's just a property on a feat that's specific in the text.

Harliquinn
smerwin29
02-08-07, 10:22 AM I think Harli is right on the money here. If the wording in the XECS is comparable in this case, then you get a free unlock for a Draconic feat in the book in which the prestige class appears. But if you tried to take a Draconic feat when receiving a feat normally, you would need to unlock it normally, even if it is from that book. Only the bonus feat gets the "free unlock."
Skerrit
02-08-07, 02:10 PM Yes, this is correct if the book that has Dragon Mage has draconc feats in it. I don't actually have books at work to double check.
Istaran
02-08-07, 03:31 PM He said Dragon Mage was from Races of the Dragon, so.. that means he has access to some but not all draconic feats as auto-unlocked. RotD reprinted some (such as draconic heritage) and added some new ones, but also didn't reprint all the Complete Arcane ones, and I think Dragon Magic has some new ones.. so I think the answer is basically that you'll get draconic heritage as a free unlock from the sub levels, other draconic feats from RotD only as free unlock bonus feats, and you'll need to unlock any other draconic feats as normal.
Skerrit
02-08-07, 04:35 PM Assuming all the details are about the books are correct without looking it up when I get home; the answer is yes, that is correct.
ank
02-08-07, 05:10 PM He said Dragon Mage was from Races of the Dragon, so.. that means he has access to some but not all draconic feats as auto-unlocked. RotD reprinted some (such as draconic heritage) and added some new ones, but also didn't reprint all the Complete Arcane ones, and I think Dragon Magic has some new ones.. so I think the answer is basically that you'll get draconic heritage as a free unlock from the sub levels, other draconic feats from RotD only as free unlock bonus feats, and you'll need to unlock any other draconic feats as normal.

Whoa, hold the phone, there are draconic feats in the complete arcane as well :eek: Now I've got to get me that book ASAP. Yes, the races of the dragon does have several draconic feats for selection, as does Dragon Magic. Hmm, I guess I'll just have to unlock those normally. Thanks for the help guys.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ank 02-07-07, 08:14 PM	I'm thinking about taking the racial substitution levels for the dragonblood sorceror, but ive got a problem. You have to take the substitution level at your first level, and this allows you to gain the feat "dragon heritage" as a bonus feat. Howeverm this is an expansion item, so are you allowed to take it anyway? Ive got the same problem with the Dragon mage prestige class from RotD that allows bonus draconic feats at a faster rate than you can unlock them.
Skerrit 02-07-07, 11:21 PM	I don't have a book in front of me, but they specify a specific feat right? That means it gets unlocked along with the racial substitution level.
ank 02-08-07, 07:22 AM	Yes, racial substitution sets a specific feat, so ive got that taken care of then, but just out of curiosity, how about dragon mage? They only get "bonus Draconic feat?"
Skerrit 02-08-07, 09:42 AM	That one sounds problematic, but I don't have my books with me to check the wording. It sounds like a combination that without a card, you likely can't do. Not everything is possible. The rules give you alot more flexibility, but they don't allow everything.
Harliquinn 02-08-07, 10:06 AM	Yes, racial substitution sets a specific feat, so ive got that taken care of then, but just out of curiosity, how about dragon mage? They only get "bonus Draconic feat?" If I remember earlier comments about this type of thing, the ruling at the time (It may have changed or I might have remembered it wrong) was that if a class that you unlock has a finite set of feats then it also unlocked those set of feats from the same source. In other words, if you took Dragon Mage, and it offered a bonus Draconic Feat, then you could take a Draconic Feat from the book the Dragon Mage was in. Draconic Feats in other sources would need to be unlocked normally. Again this is my memory so it's not 100% :) I remember this didn't work with Fighter Feats because there is no 'type' called "Fighter Feat"; it's just a property on a feat that's specific in the text. Harliquinn
smerwin29 02-08-07, 10:22 AM	I think Harli is right on the money here. If the wording in the XECS is comparable in this case, then you get a free unlock for a Draconic feat in the book in which the prestige class appears. But if you tried to take a Draconic feat when receiving a feat normally, you would need to unlock it normally, even if it is from that book. Only the bonus feat gets the "free unlock."
Skerrit 02-08-07, 02:10 PM	Yes, this is correct if the book that has Dragon Mage has draconc feats in it. I don't actually have books at work to double check.
Istaran 02-08-07, 03:31 PM	He said Dragon Mage was from Races of the Dragon, so.. that means he has access to some but not all draconic feats as auto-unlocked. RotD reprinted some (such as draconic heritage) and added some new ones, but also didn't reprint all the Complete Arcane ones, and I think Dragon Magic has some new ones.. so I think the answer is basically that you'll get draconic heritage as a free unlock from the sub levels, other draconic feats from RotD only as free unlock bonus feats, and you'll need to unlock any other draconic feats as normal.
Skerrit 02-08-07, 04:35 PM	Assuming all the details are about the books are correct without looking it up when I get home; the answer is yes, that is correct.
ank 02-08-07, 05:10 PM	He said Dragon Mage was from Races of the Dragon, so.. that means he has access to some but not all draconic feats as auto-unlocked. RotD reprinted some (such as draconic heritage) and added some new ones, but also didn't reprint all the Complete Arcane ones, and I think Dragon Magic has some new ones.. so I think the answer is basically that you'll get draconic heritage as a free unlock from the sub levels, other draconic feats from RotD only as free unlock bonus feats, and you'll need to unlock any other draconic feats as normal. Whoa, hold the phone, there are draconic feats in the complete arcane as well :eek: Now I've got to get me that book ASAP. Yes, the races of the dragon does have several draconic feats for selection, as does Dragon Magic. Hmm, I guess I'll just have to unlock those normally. Thanks for the help guys.