Are the parts of "Lich Queen" severable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are the parts of "Lich Queen" severable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wuafeeldh
06-13-07, 05:25 PM I'm trying to do some wheeling and dealing with other local GMs on the subject of who will vounteer to eat which modules over the next few months. I'm hoping to work "Eyes of the Lich Queen" into this bargain in some way, but without looking at it (which would kind of render the question moot), I don't know if it's structured such that it has to be eaten all in one chunk, or if it can be divided up into two or four bite-sized morsels, more suitable for sharing out among friends.

So, before I let any more culinary metaphor creep in to (further) obscure the actual question, could anybody who's read the adventure and/or the adaptation documents volunteer an opinion as to whether it's possible to run one segment of the adventure without being effectively (or actually) disqualified from playing in the later ones?
dreamwolf
06-13-07, 05:56 PM You should be able to section it into four pieces. The adventure is pre-divided, and there seems to be a fair amount of leeway in terms of how much Eberron-time might pass between the different sections.
smerwin29
06-13-07, 06:25 PM In the adaptation of Part 1, it describes how this works. Basically, to play in later parts, your character needs to play earlier parts. So you can only play Part 3 if you've played Parts 1 and 2. However, you do not have to finish the adventure. So you could play Parts 1 and 2 but not play Parts 3 and 4.

However, each Part is considered its own adventure, so after someone plays Part 1, they could DM Part 1 for another group.

I only did the adaptation for Part 1, so if this policy has changed in subsequent parts, August or Chris Tulach could speak to that.

Shawn
lseelba
06-13-07, 06:31 PM You should be able to section it into four pieces. The adventure is pre-divided, and there seems to be a fair amount of leeway in terms of how much Eberron-time might pass between the different sections.

They are not severable. Here are the restrictions on the Player:

1) Can only play each part once.
2) A PC must have played the earlier parts to play the later parts, and cannot play them out of order.
3) If you do not play Part 1 and 2 before the end of July (when they retire), you will not be able to complete Eyes of the Lich Queen.

You add those two together, and it means that you have to play all parts in order, using the SAME faction character that you choose for part one. For a DM, this equates to:

1) If you eat the first part, you can't play Eyes of the Lich Queen at all.
2) If you play Part 1, then somehow want to eat a future part, your PC can't complete Eyes of the Lich Queen.

DISLAIMER: This is how the rules are written now. The factionmasters or mod adapters might change these rules, maybe to let people start Part 3 if they missed Part 1 and 2 due to retirement. I don't know. Also, the policy in Part 2 is identical to the policy in Part 1.
Wuafeeldh
06-13-07, 11:46 PM Well, that's somewhat unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected. Thanks for the informative responses!
dreamwolf
06-17-07, 09:36 AM Also, you should be aware that each of the four sections is about 8 hours of estimated play time. I didn't realize this when I scheduled my session, and will have to cancel as a result. I just can't fit in the 16 hours of play for the first two sessions between now and July 29.
This is not meant to sound ungrateful in any way. I think it's awesome that the faction masters helped make this opportunity available, I just wish that this had been a bit more apparent as I was requesting the adaptation.
lseelba
06-17-07, 03:30 PM No it is awesome of the factionmasters to make this available, and even more awesome for them to let us play it online. Its going to take a LOT of time to play, but they made the rewards and XP double compared to a normal faction adventure.
Harliquinn
06-17-07, 04:58 PM I"m not going to spoil anything, but you *WILL* want to play this if you can manage it at all!
WolfStar76
06-18-07, 02:18 PM I"m not going to spoil anything, but you *WILL* want to play this if you can manage it at all!

As Harliquinn's GM for the first module of EotLQ I'm going to take full credit for his ringing endorsement.

What? What do you mean the Author?

Results? Pish posh. It was me. MEEEE!
WolfStar76
06-18-07, 02:21 PM they made the rewards and XP double compared to a normal faction adventure.

Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing part 1. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend).

I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not.
Harliquinn
06-18-07, 02:21 PM Hopefully my GM for Part 2 also. (Is that scheduled yet?)

WolfStar did a great job running it by the way ,even through the 9 or so hours it took. I'm still giddy over the rewards :)

It is possible to play these then run them right? With all the odd restrictions on it, I wanted to make sure if I now run Part 1 for my gaming group I'm not prohibited from playing Part 2, 3, and 4 right?

Harliquinn
Harliquinn
06-18-07, 02:23 PM Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing this. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend).

I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not.

It was not 'double' that I could tell. My character did level from 6 to 7 (though I think I was close to 7). I got about 2.5-3k in gp which seems about in line for a Faction Mod 5. That said, the Story Objects were definitely worth it.

Harliquinn
WolfStar76
06-18-07, 02:44 PM Hopefully my GM for Part 2 also. (Is that scheduled yet?)
<threadjack>

It isn't officially ordered, but it's slated for the 14th. Check our forum's "Crunch Time" thread for the details on our attempts to get all the pre-published mods in before the cutoff - see also our new start time (no more 11:00pm endings!)

</threadjack>

It is possible to play these then run them right? With all the odd restrictions on it, I wanted to make sure if I now run Part 1 for my gaming group I'm not prohibited from playing Part 2, 3, and 4 right?

My educated guess is that they're all different modules in the ordering system, so there shouldn't be any database restrictions on playing and then running. Then again, if the "same character for all mods" is being enforced on the database side, it's possible they've tied them together somehow.

Since the book, itself, is split into four sub-adventures, it's very clear where to start and stop reading - I can't forsee that they'd prohibit your from playing later parts after running earlier parts.

Perhaps we can get a FactionMaster to confirm/deny that.

Shawn? You wrote the adaptation, right? Care to chime in?
Tabiani
06-18-07, 02:53 PM It was not 'double' that I could tell. My character did level from 6 to 7 (though I think I was close to 7). I got about 2.5-3k in gp which seems about in line for a Faction Mod 5. That said, the Story Objects were definitely worth it.

HarliquinnThat's good, I still have hope for my little druid. That is, if I can manage to find a DM's Mark 5&6 for Blackwheel. :D It probably was a bit optimistic to think that I'd hit 6th since it counts as a (long) one session adventure. I was thinking it counted as two since it was twice as long.

The cash was pretty much in line for what I'd been getting for faction/DM-4&5 and EXP-3 I've played. But, then, I've never received 5,000 gold for a mod like some folks have reported. It's a fun mod, though, and well worth playing.
lseelba
06-18-07, 03:09 PM Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing part 1. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend).

I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not.

The adaptation of “The Temple of Kha’shazul,” Part One of Eyes of the Lich Queen, approximates the
rewards for a two-round adventure. While play time could vary dramatically based on the play styles of
participating players and DMs, at least 8 hours is the suggested time allocation.

He was level 5 when he started and still level 5 after the mod? That does not seem right. Especially since Part 1 is written for 5th level characters and Part 2 is written for 6th level characters. If they did xp so that it would be like two Faction 5's, he should have leveled. How did you answer the questions at the end? I mean did they get all good answers to those questions?
smerwin29
06-18-07, 03:46 PM Since the book, itself, is split into four sub-adventures, it's very clear where to start and stop reading - I can't forsee that they'd prohibit your from playing later parts after running earlier parts.

Perhaps we can get a FactionMaster to confirm/deny that.

Shawn? You wrote the adaptation, right? Care to chime in?

Um, I thought I did. As far as I know, they are treated like individual adventures. So you could play Part 1, then judge Part 1, then play Part 2, then judge Part 2, etc. As far as I know!

Shawn
Harliquinn
06-18-07, 03:55 PM Great, thanks Shawn!
smerwin29
06-18-07, 03:58 PM Ignore the part of the adventure that talks about the rewards being set as per a 2-round adventure.

The reality of it is that we have had to adjust rewards back and forth and back and forth since the campaign began, for a variety of reasons.

For this play period (from DDXP '07 until the bump at GenCon '07), there is no rhyme or reason to the awards level of awards given. It is very possible for a player to not level after playing a round of EotLQ, even if getting max XP.

I will say this: if a player started at the Level Bump of 4th level, they started with 6000 xp. If that player played all of the Faction adventures and the two Expedition adventures, they could be ahead of the level bump, without playing EotLQ or the DM's Marks: not likely, but possibly.

Playing everything possible with one character will put the character well beyond the level bump, and even safely into Level 8.

Shawn
WolfStar76
06-18-07, 04:07 PM <snip>
Playing everything possible with one character will put the character well beyond the level bump, and even safely into Level 8.

Shawn

Great info. I'll pass this along to my players
Tabiani
06-18-07, 05:43 PM He was level 5 when he started and still level 5 after the mod? That does not seem right. Especially since Part 1 is written for 5th level characters and Part 2 is written for 6th level characters. If they did xp so that it would be like two Faction 5's, he should have leveled. How did you answer the questions at the end? I mean did they get all good answers to those questions?
I'm the player Wolfstar76 was talking about, lseelba. My BW Druid played BWC-4 & EXP-3 at DDXP and made 5th. Since then I've played DM-4 and the part 1 of Lich Queen and he's still 5th.

By contrast, my CoS Ranger has done CSH-4&5 and DM-4&5 and she is level 6 while my CoL half-giant is still 4th after CLD-4 and DM-4. So there's plenty of variation.

I'd like to think I can "beat" the level bump even if I don't find a way to play the Blackwheel DM-5&6 but I doubt it will be possible. I'm certain I'll "beat" the EV if it's the same as MoH at 7th. And I'll have a pile of cool story objects no new player would have! :cool:
lseelba
06-18-07, 11:07 PM I'm the player Wolfstar76 was talking about, lseelba. My BW Druid played BWC-4 & EXP-3 at DDXP and made 5th. Since then I've played DM-4 and the part 1 of Lich Queen and he's still 5th.

By contrast, my CoS Ranger has done CSH-4&5 and DM-4&5 and she is level 6 while my CoL half-giant is still 4th after CLD-4 and DM-4. So there's plenty of variation.

I'd like to think I can "beat" the level bump even if I don't find a way to play the Blackwheel DM-5&6 but I doubt it will be possible. I'm certain I'll "beat" the EV if it's the same as MoH at 7th. And I'll have a pile of cool story objects no new player would have! :cool:

Shawn (who originally wrote the adaptation for part 1) just said to ignore the sentence in the adaptation that said there was double rewards for it. I was going off that line before. Evidently its now just equivalent to a normal mod.

Also if you want to play a BWC DM's mark I run them frequently online. Unfortunately I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks :(

Lou
Harliquinn
06-19-07, 08:18 AM Lou
If you run BWC DM 5, I'll keep an eye out for it!

Harliquinn

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wuafeeldh 06-13-07, 05:25 PM	I'm trying to do some wheeling and dealing with other local GMs on the subject of who will vounteer to eat which modules over the next few months. I'm hoping to work "Eyes of the Lich Queen" into this bargain in some way, but without looking at it (which would kind of render the question moot), I don't know if it's structured such that it has to be eaten all in one chunk, or if it can be divided up into two or four bite-sized morsels, more suitable for sharing out among friends. So, before I let any more culinary metaphor creep in to (further) obscure the actual question, could anybody who's read the adventure and/or the adaptation documents volunteer an opinion as to whether it's possible to run one segment of the adventure without being effectively (or actually) disqualified from playing in the later ones?
dreamwolf 06-13-07, 05:56 PM	You should be able to section it into four pieces. The adventure is pre-divided, and there seems to be a fair amount of leeway in terms of how much Eberron-time might pass between the different sections.
smerwin29 06-13-07, 06:25 PM	In the adaptation of Part 1, it describes how this works. Basically, to play in later parts, your character needs to play earlier parts. So you can only play Part 3 if you've played Parts 1 and 2. However, you do not have to finish the adventure. So you could play Parts 1 and 2 but not play Parts 3 and 4. However, each Part is considered its own adventure, so after someone plays Part 1, they could DM Part 1 for another group. I only did the adaptation for Part 1, so if this policy has changed in subsequent parts, August or Chris Tulach could speak to that. Shawn
lseelba 06-13-07, 06:31 PM	You should be able to section it into four pieces. The adventure is pre-divided, and there seems to be a fair amount of leeway in terms of how much Eberron-time might pass between the different sections. They are not severable. Here are the restrictions on the Player: 1) Can only play each part once. 2) A PC must have played the earlier parts to play the later parts, and cannot play them out of order. 3) If you do not play Part 1 and 2 before the end of July (when they retire), you will not be able to complete Eyes of the Lich Queen. You add those two together, and it means that you have to play all parts in order, using the SAME faction character that you choose for part one. For a DM, this equates to: 1) If you eat the first part, you can't play Eyes of the Lich Queen at all. 2) If you play Part 1, then somehow want to eat a future part, your PC can't complete Eyes of the Lich Queen. DISLAIMER: This is how the rules are written now. The factionmasters or mod adapters might change these rules, maybe to let people start Part 3 if they missed Part 1 and 2 due to retirement. I don't know. Also, the policy in Part 2 is identical to the policy in Part 1.
Wuafeeldh 06-13-07, 11:46 PM	Well, that's somewhat unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected. Thanks for the informative responses!
dreamwolf 06-17-07, 09:36 AM	Also, you should be aware that each of the four sections is about 8 hours of estimated play time. I didn't realize this when I scheduled my session, and will have to cancel as a result. I just can't fit in the 16 hours of play for the first two sessions between now and July 29. This is not meant to sound ungrateful in any way. I think it's awesome that the faction masters helped make this opportunity available, I just wish that this had been a bit more apparent as I was requesting the adaptation.
lseelba 06-17-07, 03:30 PM	No it is awesome of the factionmasters to make this available, and even more awesome for them to let us play it online. Its going to take a LOT of time to play, but they made the rewards and XP double compared to a normal faction adventure.
Harliquinn 06-17-07, 04:58 PM	I"m not going to spoil anything, but you WILL want to play this if you can manage it at all!
WolfStar76 06-18-07, 02:18 PM	I"m not going to spoil anything, but you WILL want to play this if you can manage it at all! As Harliquinn's GM for the first module of EotLQ I'm going to take full credit for his ringing endorsement. What? What do you mean the Author? Results? Pish posh. It was me. MEEEE!
WolfStar76 06-18-07, 02:21 PM	they made the rewards and XP double compared to a normal faction adventure. Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing part 1. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend). I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not.
Harliquinn 06-18-07, 02:21 PM	Hopefully my GM for Part 2 also. (Is that scheduled yet?) WolfStar did a great job running it by the way ,even through the 9 or so hours it took. I'm still giddy over the rewards :) It is possible to play these then run them right? With all the odd restrictions on it, I wanted to make sure if I now run Part 1 for my gaming group I'm not prohibited from playing Part 2, 3, and 4 right? Harliquinn
Harliquinn 06-18-07, 02:23 PM	Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing this. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend). I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not. It was not 'double' that I could tell. My character did level from 6 to 7 (though I think I was close to 7). I got about 2.5-3k in gp which seems about in line for a Faction Mod 5. That said, the Story Objects were definitely worth it. Harliquinn
WolfStar76 06-18-07, 02:44 PM	Hopefully my GM for Part 2 also. (Is that scheduled yet?) <threadjack> It isn't officially ordered, but it's slated for the 14th. Check our forum's "Crunch Time" thread for the details on our attempts to get all the pre-published mods in before the cutoff - see also our new start time (no more 11:00pm endings!) </threadjack> It is possible to play these then run them right? With all the odd restrictions on it, I wanted to make sure if I now run Part 1 for my gaming group I'm not prohibited from playing Part 2, 3, and 4 right? My educated guess is that they're all different modules in the ordering system, so there shouldn't be any database restrictions on playing and then running. Then again, if the "same character for all mods" is being enforced on the database side, it's possible they've tied them together somehow. Since the book, itself, is split into four sub-adventures, it's very clear where to start and stop reading - I can't forsee that they'd prohibit your from playing later parts after running earlier parts. Perhaps we can get a FactionMaster to confirm/deny that. Shawn? You wrote the adaptation, right? Care to chime in?
Tabiani 06-18-07, 02:53 PM	It was not 'double' that I could tell. My character did level from 6 to 7 (though I think I was close to 7). I got about 2.5-3k in gp which seems about in line for a Faction Mod 5. That said, the Story Objects were definitely worth it. HarliquinnThat's good, I still have hope for my little druid. That is, if I can manage to find a DM's Mark 5&6 for Blackwheel. :D It probably was a bit optimistic to think that I'd hit 6th since it counts as a (long) one session adventure. I was thinking it counted as two since it was twice as long. The cash was pretty much in line for what I'd been getting for faction/DM-4&5 and EXP-3 I've played. But, then, I've never received 5,000 gold for a mod like some folks have reported. It's a fun mod, though, and well worth playing.
lseelba 06-18-07, 03:09 PM	Do we know that for a fact? One of my players was saddened that his character was "still level 5" after playing part 1. I'm not sure of his play history (I think BWC4, and maybe a DM's Mark - we're not doing BWC5 or 6 until this weekend). I know some of the players at my table we wondering if the longer play time came with better rewards or not, it would be nice to confirm/deny that - whether it's "double" or merely "more" than usual or not. The adaptation of “The Temple of Kha’shazul,” Part One of Eyes of the Lich Queen, approximates the rewards for a two-round adventure. While play time could vary dramatically based on the play styles of participating players and DMs, at least 8 hours is the suggested time allocation. He was level 5 when he started and still level 5 after the mod? That does not seem right. Especially since Part 1 is written for 5th level characters and Part 2 is written for 6th level characters. If they did xp so that it would be like two Faction 5's, he should have leveled. How did you answer the questions at the end? I mean did they get all good answers to those questions?
smerwin29 06-18-07, 03:46 PM	Since the book, itself, is split into four sub-adventures, it's very clear where to start and stop reading - I can't forsee that they'd prohibit your from playing later parts after running earlier parts. Perhaps we can get a FactionMaster to confirm/deny that. Shawn? You wrote the adaptation, right? Care to chime in? Um, I thought I did. As far as I know, they are treated like individual adventures. So you could play Part 1, then judge Part 1, then play Part 2, then judge Part 2, etc. As far as I know! Shawn
Harliquinn 06-18-07, 03:55 PM	Great, thanks Shawn!
smerwin29 06-18-07, 03:58 PM	Ignore the part of the adventure that talks about the rewards being set as per a 2-round adventure. The reality of it is that we have had to adjust rewards back and forth and back and forth since the campaign began, for a variety of reasons. For this play period (from DDXP '07 until the bump at GenCon '07), there is no rhyme or reason to the awards level of awards given. It is very possible for a player to not level after playing a round of EotLQ, even if getting max XP. I will say this: if a player started at the Level Bump of 4th level, they started with 6000 xp. If that player played all of the Faction adventures and the two Expedition adventures, they could be ahead of the level bump, without playing EotLQ or the DM's Marks: not likely, but possibly. Playing everything possible with one character will put the character well beyond the level bump, and even safely into Level 8. Shawn
WolfStar76 06-18-07, 04:07 PM	<snip> Playing everything possible with one character will put the character well beyond the level bump, and even safely into Level 8. Shawn Great info. I'll pass this along to my players
Tabiani 06-18-07, 05:43 PM	He was level 5 when he started and still level 5 after the mod? That does not seem right. Especially since Part 1 is written for 5th level characters and Part 2 is written for 6th level characters. If they did xp so that it would be like two Faction 5's, he should have leveled. How did you answer the questions at the end? I mean did they get all good answers to those questions? I'm the player Wolfstar76 was talking about, lseelba. My BW Druid played BWC-4 & EXP-3 at DDXP and made 5th. Since then I've played DM-4 and the part 1 of Lich Queen and he's still 5th. By contrast, my CoS Ranger has done CSH-4&5 and DM-4&5 and she is level 6 while my CoL half-giant is still 4th after CLD-4 and DM-4. So there's plenty of variation. I'd like to think I can "beat" the level bump even if I don't find a way to play the Blackwheel DM-5&6 but I doubt it will be possible. I'm certain I'll "beat" the EV if it's the same as MoH at 7th. And I'll have a pile of cool story objects no new player would have! :cool:
lseelba 06-18-07, 11:07 PM	I'm the player Wolfstar76 was talking about, lseelba. My BW Druid played BWC-4 & EXP-3 at DDXP and made 5th. Since then I've played DM-4 and the part 1 of Lich Queen and he's still 5th. By contrast, my CoS Ranger has done CSH-4&5 and DM-4&5 and she is level 6 while my CoL half-giant is still 4th after CLD-4 and DM-4. So there's plenty of variation. I'd like to think I can "beat" the level bump even if I don't find a way to play the Blackwheel DM-5&6 but I doubt it will be possible. I'm certain I'll "beat" the EV if it's the same as MoH at 7th. And I'll have a pile of cool story objects no new player would have! :cool: Shawn (who originally wrote the adaptation for part 1) just said to ignore the sentence in the adaptation that said there was double rewards for it. I was going off that line before. Evidently its now just equivalent to a normal mod. Also if you want to play a BWC DM's mark I run them frequently online. Unfortunately I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks :( Lou
Harliquinn 06-19-07, 08:18 AM	Lou If you run BWC DM 5, I'll keep an eye out for it! Harliquinn