Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harliquinn 03-05-07, 02:21 PM	How does the Divine/Arcane Focus of a Chameleon work with respect to non-unlimited classes? Here is the relevant (shortened) excerpt: Arcane Focus: You gain the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class. You prepare and cast these spells just as a wizard does, including the use of a spellbook (chameleons often use stolen or borrowed spellbooks; see page 178 of the Player's Handbook for details). Before choosing an Arcane Spellcasting Class from which to base your spells, do you need to: 1) Unlock the class as normal (with 3 expansions) - Hopefully not this one 2) Unlock access to the class's spells only (with say 1-2 expansions). 3) Unlock each spell individually (Unless the spell itself is already unlocked) 4) Nothing, you are limited to only unlimited class spell lists Thanks, Harliquinn
Marcus Majarra 03-05-07, 04:43 PM	I'm thinking #3 is right here.
smerwin29 03-05-07, 04:55 PM	We will have to discuss this, and we'll get back to you. How I am assuming it will work is this way: you choose the class, and then you get any spells they would get without unlocking any (that is, unlimited spells). If you wanted spells that are on their list but locked, you would have to unlock each one, just as if you were that class. Does that make sense? I think this is Option 3 in your question.
Harliquinn 03-05-07, 05:35 PM	I gues the main question is about choosing spells of an Arcane or Divine class that isn't a Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard. What if I wanted to use the spell list of say the Beguiler? Harliquinn
Skerrit 03-05-07, 07:19 PM	Given the way its written, I would guess Shawn is right. You can do either #1 (unlock a whole class and thus its spells are no longer limited), or unlock individual spells. If you don't do either, you are can only choose spells from unlimited classes.
Harliquinn 03-05-07, 11:35 PM	That makes sense. I guess more specifically I want to ask this. If a spell, such as "Haste" is on two different arcane spell lists at different levels, one at 3rd level and one at 2nd level. Could you use the arcane list in which it appears at 2nd level instead of the one where it appears at 3rd level? Could you do this is both classes were unlimited? Could you do this if you unlock the one class with an expansion slot? This mainly applies to the Dungeonscape's Trapsmith class. (Or some similar name) that has a much accelerated arcane spell list. For the record, I have no desire to 'break' anything, but I'm sure the question may come up for other classes that get to 'choose arcane spells from a list'. Harliquinn
smerwin29 03-06-07, 07:28 AM	Choose a spell list for a class. Use only the list for that class, not for others. If the class you chose has haste at 3rd level, it is a 3rd-level spell. If it has haste at 2nd level, it is a 2nd-level spell. Choose just one class spell list, and stick with that.
Harliquinn 03-06-07, 09:44 AM	Choose a spell list for a class. Use only the list for that class, not for others. If the class you chose has haste at 3rd level, it is a 3rd-level spell. If it has haste at 2nd level, it is a 2nd-level spell. Choose just one class spell list, and stick with that. That does help clear up part of the question. Perhaps I just haven't asked the root of my question correctly (or if I've misunderstood the answers, please tell me). The rest of my question is: Which classes can I choose for their spell list? 1) Unlimited classes only? (PHB/Xen'drik and faction specific) 2) Unlimited classes and unlocked classes (from cards, expansion list, etc)? 3) Any non-restricted class? If the answer is #2, to unlock a Class purely for the purposes of emulating it's spell list, is the cost still 3 Expansion slots or does it count as a lesser unlock cost? Sorry for drawing this out but this is quite important to my Chameleon character. I know new books/rules always create issues (Which is why I understand the need to limit book selection). Thanks again! Harliquinn
smerwin29 03-06-07, 02:57 PM	Now I have a clearer picture of what you are asking. I will need to talk to the other Factionmasters to get their thoughts. For the time being, assume the following will be the case: You can choose any unlimited or unlocked class, and thus get the unlimited/unlocked spells on that spell list. If you want a spell list for a class that is locked, you must unlock the entire class. That ruling may not make it into the next XECS, but plan your character with that as the assumption. Shawn Crimson Codex Guy
Harliquinn 03-06-07, 04:46 PM	Thanks Shawn! Any answer for now is a good placeholder. I'll keep an eye out for a change to that in future EXCS's. By the way, I believe it is fair to require unlocking the class; I just don't know if I have 3 expansion slots to do so *laugh*. Harliquinn
Skerrit 03-07-07, 09:56 AM	For what it's worth, I agree with Shawn.
Marcus Majarra 03-07-07, 02:10 PM	Here's something that doesn't seem clear: If a chameleon can get access to other classes' spell lists by unlocking the class (if locked), does this work as a way to get more spells unlocked for a low cost? For example, let's say that a non-Cabal chameleon unlocks the duskblade. Does he suddenly acquire the duskblade spell list for his chameleon spellcasting? Does this unlock all the duskblade spells, including those from the PHB2? This would actually make it worthwhile for chameleons, since entering the class already costs a lot of expansion slots (2 for Able Learner, and 3 for the PrC).
Harliquinn 03-07-07, 02:40 PM	Here's something that doesn't seem clear: If a chameleon can get access to other classes' spell lists by unlocking the class (if locked), does this work as a way to get more spells unlocked for a low cost? For example, let's say that a non-Cabal chameleon unlocks the duskblade. Does he suddenly acquire the duskblade spell list for his chameleon spellcasting? Does this unlock all the duskblade spells, including those from the PHB2? This would actually make it worthwhile for chameleons, since entering the class already costs a lot of expansion slots (2 for Able Learner, and 3 for the PrC). That is how it would appear to work. You aren't saving anything really as unlocking a class on your expansion list always unlocks it's appropriate spells if you take the class. In this case, you aren't 'taking' the class, you are just using the class's spell list. It appears that in Xen'drik Campaigns there is an additional limitation that you can only use the spell list of one class at a time (I have no problem with this), therefore, allowing all the spells for that class seems a good compensation. Keep in mind, Duskblade appears in PHB2, therefore all those spells would be automatically unlocked for a Cabal character taking Duskblade or another faction unlocking it with Expansion slots. Spells for the Duskblade that appeared, for instance, in Dragon Magic, however would not be automatically unlocked by the expansion or the class in Cabal. Harliquinn
Marcus Majarra 03-08-07, 03:45 AM	While we're on the subject of unlocking, I find it problematic that some PrCs are easier to unlock than others. For example, any PrC that requires limited/unlimited requirements will only cost 3 expansion slots. However, PrCs with locked requirements may cost significantly more, depending on the requirements. It's a good thing the Frenzied Berserker is restricted, as it would've cost 7 expansions slots to take the class at all (due to the requirement of two feats plus the PrC itself). Would it be reasonable to ask for reduced costs for PrCs with locked requirements?
smerwin29 03-08-07, 07:28 AM	Here's something that doesn't seem clear: If a chameleon can get access to other classes' spell lists by unlocking the class (if locked), does this work as a way to get more spells unlocked for a low cost? For example, let's say that a non-Cabal chameleon unlocks the duskblade. Does he suddenly acquire the duskblade spell list for his chameleon spellcasting? Does this unlock all the duskblade spells, including those from the PHB2? This would actually make it worthwhile for chameleons, since entering the class already costs a lot of expansion slots (2 for Able Learner, and 3 for the PrC). The chameleon would only get the spells from the spell list that is already unlimited, or that has been unlocked. I understand what you are saying about some prestige classes costing a lot of expansion slots, but that's just the way it is. In the end, you choices are going to be affected by expansion slots, as that is the purpose of expansion slots. We want to give people access to "outside" game elements. We don't want wholesale cherry picking that gives rise to the worst kinds of abuses that we sometimes in the RPGA. Sometimes that is going to mean people can't play EXACTLY the character they want, and we realize that. Shawn
Harliquinn 03-08-07, 09:55 AM	The chameleon would only get the spells from the spell list that is already unlimited, or that has been unlocked. Shawn Okay I thought I understood...could you clarify this? If say, with my Chameleon character, I use 3 Expansion Slots to unlock the class Beguiler. When I make the Beguiler my arcane spell list of choice for the day do I get spells on the Beguiler list that are: 1) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS) only 2) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS) and new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2: unlocked by putting class on the expansion list) 3) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS), new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2), Beguiler spells from other sources that I have unlocked explicitly with expansion slots 4) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS), new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2), any Beguiler spell from any non-restricted source even if I haven't unlocked them with expansion slots Thanks Harliquinn
smerwin29 03-08-07, 10:07 AM	Okay I thought I understood...could you clarify this? If say, with my Chameleon character, I use 3 Expansion Slots to unlock the class Beguiler. When I make the Beguiler my arcane spell list of choice for the day do I get spells on the Beguiler list that are: 1) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS) only 2) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS) and new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2: unlocked by putting class on the expansion list) 3) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS), new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2), Beguiler spells from other sources that I have unlocked explicitly with expansion slots 4) Spells from unlimited sources (PHB, ECS), new Beguiler spells in the same source as Beguiler (PHB2), any Beguiler spell from any non-restricted source even if I haven't unlocked them with expansion slots #3 above. It would be just like if you wanted to be a Beguiler. You would have access to the same spells as if you were the Beguiler: unlimited sourcebook spells, spells unlocked because they are in the same source, and anything else you have unlocked through expansion slots or Campaign cards.
Harliquinn 03-08-07, 10:47 AM	Whew! Thanks for the fast update. For some reason I took your previous post to mean Choice #1 :) Harliquinn
Skerrit 03-10-07, 11:50 AM	If you unlock the Beguiler class, you would only get those spells if you take Beguiler levels.
Marcus Majarra 03-10-07, 05:17 PM	If you unlock the Beguiler class, you would only get those spells if you take Beguiler levels. How does this work out for chameleons? Does this mean that if they don't take levels in a spellcasting class, they can't cast those spells as a chameleon? It would go pretty much against the point of the class, which is to imitate others.
Hellcast 03-10-07, 07:06 PM	No he meant that you had to unlock the class to get to chose the spelllist, because normaly you had to unlock that class and take levels in it to access that list(as a beguiler). As a chameleon you unlock it so you can choose it as one of your arcane spell list you might chose with arcane focus.