Changeling Disguise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changeling Disguise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Diablo05
04-12-07, 03:44 PM The book states that the minor change ability of Changelings is NOT an illusion (unlike the Disguise Self spell) but rather a true change in form. Would this then allow you to get the benefits of that form? For instance, could you change into a Raptorian in order to fly?
GaloisTheOmnipotent
04-12-07, 05:14 PM Nope. You only get +10 bonus to Disguise skill checks.
Marcus Majarra
04-12-07, 05:17 PM Exactly. And the wings would feel real to the senses (unlike with the illusion, which is merely visual).
Diablo05
04-12-07, 06:03 PM Yeah I figured.
It was brought up at the last game when the Spellscale managed to all but replace the Changeling by simply purchasing a Hat of Disguise.
Changelings dont really seem all that worth while when any player can fill their role with a rather inexpensive magic item (1,800gp I believe).
Marcus Majarra
04-12-07, 06:40 PM Well, changelings can do it without investing that 1,800 gp and hat body slot. Plus they receive racial bonuses the spellscales don't. And they get access to sweet racial substitution levels and prestige classes (recaster or warshaper anyone?).

All in all, I'll place my bets on the changeling.
Madfox11
04-13-07, 03:47 AM Also remember that anybody interacting with the person disguised with a hat of disguise gets a DC 11 Will save to pierce the illusion. The exact nature of interaction depends a bit on the DM and the disguise chosen, but merely speaking with a spellscale disguised as a raptorian would in my opinion trigger the Will save since the wings are not there (and hence do not make any sound). A hat of disguise is mostly for minor appearance changes and not for the big changes. Also note that there are changeling feats and alternative class abilities that are quiet good and distinct.
Diablo05
04-15-07, 09:52 AM Yeah, Changeling still has its advantages. I think he's gonna stick with it. Although, it sounds like next game the entire party is going to be wearing hats of disguise :-P. Stealth the Crimson Codex way.
Lightblade
04-15-07, 12:09 PM In the first Crimson Codex adventure, Lady Ivex (my character) changed her hair color after there were reports with reports of a band of adventurers meeting our description. This generated a comment from another character to the tune of; "Why didn't you tell us what you were? That would have been useful information!" Apparently he didn't buy my story of instant hair dye.

Anyway: IMHO the great thing about changlings is the Extrordinary Changling expansion card. For one AP, you get access to a whole bunch of stuff. Wanted racial subsitution levels and alternate class features? No problem. Want to play a psion? Sure, sounds good. Just throw in a level of Rogue or something first. Heck, make it a level of Changeling Rogue for extra skillpoints, and crazy benefits besides.

My only problem so far has been asking myself, "But what do I unlock with my expansion list?" Then I realized the answer was Skill Tricks.
Marcus Majarra
04-15-07, 10:22 PM The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook.

I'm only missing the latter!
Lightblade
04-16-07, 12:18 AM Aww yeah!

"Lets see... It takes the average person about 3 and a half hours to make a Gather Information check. I can do it in just under 10 minutes. Run the numbers: If someone else has time to gather info, then I have time to take 20."
Harliquinn
04-16-07, 08:31 AM The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook.

I'm only missing the latter!

THe only downside is the loss of Trapfinding, which, if there are no others who can do it, can really hurt.
Marcus Majarra
04-16-07, 02:06 PM The big issue with the loss of trapfinding is that, since you're taking rogue levels, no one can take one for the team and play the human rogue fastplay character (which is the only decent trapfinder).

In any case, there are many ways to circumvent this in the various factions:

Crimson Codex: incarnates can shape the theft gloves soulmeld and bind it to their hand chakra in order to gain trapfinding and hefty bonuses to disable device. Truthseeker goggles help obtain bonuses to search. A 4th-level incarnate can thus have trapfinding and +6 on disable device, open lock, sleight of hand, gather information, search, and sense motive. He's quite a suitable substitute for the trapfinding rogue.

Blackwheel Company: they get scouts which are just as good at finding traps as rogues are.

Cabal of Shadows: they get beguilers, which are actually better at trapfinding than rogues are, due to their emphasis on high Int for spellcasting.

Covenant of Light: they're the only ones to take a serious beating from the lack of a trapfinding rogue.
dark_poet
04-16-07, 09:56 PM There's always artificers. Of course their search may not be the best but if the changling rogue takes the artificer level...

I was actually thinking of something like that for my CC chr. Kinda becomes a super spy who can use a whole bunch of gadgets.
Marcus Majarra
04-16-07, 11:44 PM I can't believe I'd forgotten the Eberron-spawned Artificer as a trapfinder. It's a shame the mechanics are a bit wonky on Artificers in XE.
Diablo05
04-17-07, 02:50 PM Aww yeah!

"Lets see... It takes the average person about 3 and a half hours to make a Gather Information check. I can do it in just under 10 minutes. Run the numbers: If someone else has time to gather info, then I have time to take 20."

Wow, never looked at it like that. That is pretty awesome.

The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook.

Why? What do those do (or is that a spoiler)?
Marcus Majarra
04-18-07, 03:13 PM Suffice it to say that the story items from PUS and Stormrider's Chapbook are very useful for investigator/social changelings, which is what the rogue substitution levels are all about.
shivafang
05-01-07, 02:14 PM The big issue with the loss of trapfinding is that, since you're taking rogue levels, no one can take one for the team and play the human rogue fastplay character (which is the only decent trapfinder).

In any case, there are many ways to circumvent this in the various factions:

You missed one:

Any Faction: Artificers make excellent trapfinders.
Timlagor
05-01-07, 04:21 PM Is anyone actually playing an Artificer?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Diablo05 04-12-07, 03:44 PM	The book states that the minor change ability of Changelings is NOT an illusion (unlike the Disguise Self spell) but rather a true change in form. Would this then allow you to get the benefits of that form? For instance, could you change into a Raptorian in order to fly?
GaloisTheOmnipotent 04-12-07, 05:14 PM	Nope. You only get +10 bonus to Disguise skill checks.
Marcus Majarra 04-12-07, 05:17 PM	Exactly. And the wings would feel real to the senses (unlike with the illusion, which is merely visual).
Diablo05 04-12-07, 06:03 PM	Yeah I figured. It was brought up at the last game when the Spellscale managed to all but replace the Changeling by simply purchasing a Hat of Disguise. Changelings dont really seem all that worth while when any player can fill their role with a rather inexpensive magic item (1,800gp I believe).
Marcus Majarra 04-12-07, 06:40 PM	Well, changelings can do it without investing that 1,800 gp and hat body slot. Plus they receive racial bonuses the spellscales don't. And they get access to sweet racial substitution levels and prestige classes (recaster or warshaper anyone?). All in all, I'll place my bets on the changeling.
Madfox11 04-13-07, 03:47 AM	Also remember that anybody interacting with the person disguised with a hat of disguise gets a DC 11 Will save to pierce the illusion. The exact nature of interaction depends a bit on the DM and the disguise chosen, but merely speaking with a spellscale disguised as a raptorian would in my opinion trigger the Will save since the wings are not there (and hence do not make any sound). A hat of disguise is mostly for minor appearance changes and not for the big changes. Also note that there are changeling feats and alternative class abilities that are quiet good and distinct.
Diablo05 04-15-07, 09:52 AM	Yeah, Changeling still has its advantages. I think he's gonna stick with it. Although, it sounds like next game the entire party is going to be wearing hats of disguise :-P. Stealth the Crimson Codex way.
Lightblade 04-15-07, 12:09 PM	In the first Crimson Codex adventure, Lady Ivex (my character) changed her hair color after there were reports with reports of a band of adventurers meeting our description. This generated a comment from another character to the tune of; "Why didn't you tell us what you were? That would have been useful information!" Apparently he didn't buy my story of instant hair dye. Anyway: IMHO the great thing about changlings is the Extrordinary Changling expansion card. For one AP, you get access to a whole bunch of stuff. Wanted racial subsitution levels and alternate class features? No problem. Want to play a psion? Sure, sounds good. Just throw in a level of Rogue or something first. Heck, make it a level of Changeling Rogue for extra skillpoints, and crazy benefits besides. My only problem so far has been asking myself, "But what do I unlock with my expansion list?" Then I realized the answer was Skill Tricks.
Marcus Majarra 04-15-07, 10:22 PM	The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook. I'm only missing the latter!
Lightblade 04-16-07, 12:18 AM	Aww yeah! "Lets see... It takes the average person about 3 and a half hours to make a Gather Information check. I can do it in just under 10 minutes. Run the numbers: If someone else has time to gather info, then I have time to take 20."
Harliquinn 04-16-07, 08:31 AM	The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook. I'm only missing the latter! THe only downside is the loss of Trapfinding, which, if there are no others who can do it, can really hurt.
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 02:06 PM	The big issue with the loss of trapfinding is that, since you're taking rogue levels, no one can take one for the team and play the human rogue fastplay character (which is the only decent trapfinder). In any case, there are many ways to circumvent this in the various factions: Crimson Codex: incarnates can shape the theft gloves soulmeld and bind it to their hand chakra in order to gain trapfinding and hefty bonuses to disable device. Truthseeker goggles help obtain bonuses to search. A 4th-level incarnate can thus have trapfinding and +6 on disable device, open lock, sleight of hand, gather information, search, and sense motive. He's quite a suitable substitute for the trapfinding rogue. Blackwheel Company: they get scouts which are just as good at finding traps as rogues are. Cabal of Shadows: they get beguilers, which are actually better at trapfinding than rogues are, due to their emphasis on high Int for spellcasting. Covenant of Light: they're the only ones to take a serious beating from the lack of a trapfinding rogue.
dark_poet 04-16-07, 09:56 PM	There's always artificers. Of course their search may not be the best but if the changling rogue takes the artificer level... I was actually thinking of something like that for my CC chr. Kinda becomes a super spy who can use a whole bunch of gadgets.
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 11:44 PM	I can't believe I'd forgotten the Eberron-spawned Artificer as a trapfinder. It's a shame the mechanics are a bit wonky on Artificers in XE.
Diablo05 04-17-07, 02:50 PM	Aww yeah! "Lets see... It takes the average person about 3 and a half hours to make a Gather Information check. I can do it in just under 10 minutes. Run the numbers: If someone else has time to gather info, then I have time to take 20." Wow, never looked at it like that. That is pretty awesome. The rogue substitution levels are worth their weight in gold. Especially if you obtain the two sweet story items from Prophecy's Unwitting Servant and you have a copy of Stormrider's Chapbook. Why? What do those do (or is that a spoiler)?
Marcus Majarra 04-18-07, 03:13 PM	Suffice it to say that the story items from PUS and Stormrider's Chapbook are very useful for investigator/social changelings, which is what the rogue substitution levels are all about.
shivafang 05-01-07, 02:14 PM	The big issue with the loss of trapfinding is that, since you're taking rogue levels, no one can take one for the team and play the human rogue fastplay character (which is the only decent trapfinder). In any case, there are many ways to circumvent this in the various factions: You missed one: Any Faction: Artificers make excellent trapfinders.
Timlagor 05-01-07, 04:21 PM	Is anyone actually playing an Artificer?