Creation question- valid build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creation question- valid build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kitequester
07-25-07, 10:56 PM I'm attending Gen Con this year and will be playing in RPGA events for XE that will have the L7 bump applied.

I'm creating my first XE character, ever, and just want to confirm my choices are valid. The Campaign Standards read like stereo instructions, so I figure I'd get some live feedback before showing up to play.

My build is as follows:

Warforged Bbn 1/ Fighter 6

Str 17 (10 pt buy + 4th level increase)
Dex 14 (6 pt buy)
con 16 (6 pt buy +2 racial adjustment)
Int 10 (2 pt buy)
Wis 7 (1 pt buy -2 racial adjustment)
Cha 6 (0 pt buy -2 racial adjustment)

Expansion slots include:

1st & 2nd Racial substitution levels (Warforged Fighter)
3rd & 4th Jaws of Death (Races of Eberron)
5th & 6th Second Slam (Races of Eberron)
7th Magic Item TBD

Level progression had Bbn 1 at first level, and Fighter for levels 2-7. Racial substitution for Ftr 2 and Ftr 4 were both used.

Feats as follows:

1st: Mithral Body
Ftr1 bonus: Weapon Focus: Slam
Ftr 2 Bonus warforged feat per subst. level: Jaws of death
3rd: Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
6th: Weapon Specialization: Slam
Ftr6 bonus feat: Second Slam

Planned weapons to include a stock Armblade and a Battlefist from the Eberron Sourcebook. Level kick GP should make these items easily affordable, and the sourcebook is an 'unlimited' source for equipment, including magic items, correct?

The one point I'm stuck on is the ability to actually take an expansion feat before it's fully 'paid for'. Jaws of Death takes up the Lvl 3 and 4 expansion slots, but based on when my feat selections come about, I'd need to take it at character level 3. Is it a valid selection?

Thanks for looking, feedback would be appreciated.
Marcus Majarra
07-26-07, 12:04 AM Yes, you can use expansions as soon as you take them, even if they cost you expansion slots beyond your current level. You can take an expansion as soon as you have an empty expansion slot for any of your levels, even if the expansion cost is more than what levels you have without expansions.
Mherduwynn
07-26-07, 12:52 AM As one of the writers for those "stereo instructions", thank you ever so for that glowing praise... -_-

-A

(And yes, as listed, it's a perfectly legitimate build.) :)
lseelba
07-26-07, 04:40 AM Unlocking Racial Substitution levels has to be done at first level AND they have to be the racial substitution levels for your race and starting class (Page 5).

If you plan on taking the Warforged Fighter sub levels, you have to start as Fighter 1, not Barb 1. So you'd lose out on the skill points.

That was the first thing that popped out at me. I'm still reading your build.

EDIT: Other stuff looks ok.
heirodule
07-26-07, 10:39 AM But you can unlock a racial substitution level for a class level that is after first, right.

Like a kalashtar monk 1 could unlock "kalashtar monk level 2", take psi warrior as his level 2 level, and then actually take take "kalashtar monk level 2" at third. For example.

ROE says you don't have to take the prior sub levels to get later sub levels.

Right?
Marcus Majarra
07-26-07, 12:34 PM Actually, when you unlock racial substitution levels for one class from one book, you unlock them all at once.

Iseelba is right, however. If you want to take warforged fighter substitution levels, fighter has to be your starting class.
Kitequester
07-26-07, 09:20 PM Thanks for the advice!

One minor tweak and he should be ready to play!

Full attack for this character should be nasty. Two iterative attacks, two secondary slams, and a secondary bite.

The body as weapon ability from Warforged Fighter 4 makes all those attacks a little more potent since they're natural or a result of imbedded items.

I read and re-read the FAQ on secondary attacks combined with iterative attacks, and I don't see anything that would prohibit 5 attacks with a full attack action. (Page 87-89 of the 3.5e FAQ). The multiattack feat would also be nice, to help eliminate some of the to-hit penalties.
lseelba
07-27-07, 01:45 AM Thanks for the advice!

One minor tweak and he should be ready to play!

Full attack for this character should be nasty. Two iterative attacks, two secondary slams, and a secondary bite.

The body as weapon ability from Warforged Fighter 4 makes all those attacks a little more potent since they're natural or a result of imbedded items.

I read and re-read the FAQ on secondary attacks combined with iterative attacks, and I don't see anything that would prohibit 5 attacks with a full attack action. (Page 87-89 of the 3.5e FAQ). The multiattack feat would also be nice, to help eliminate some of the to-hit penalties.

Yeah you'll have lots of attacks. Basically:

Armblade at BAB, 1d10 + STR + Body as Weapon + stuff
Armblade at BAB - 5, 1d10 + STR + Body as Weapon + stuff
Slam at BAB - 5, 1d8 + 1/2 STR + Body as Weapon + stuff
Slam at BAB - 5, 1d8 + 1/2 STR + Body as Weapon + stuff
Bite at BAB - 5, 1d6 + 1/2 STR + stuff

The slams and bite are treated as a secondary natural attacks so you only get 1/2 STR. The Bite attack doesn't get Body as Weapon (it's neither a slam nor a warforged component).

I would seriously consider dipping into a class that would give you precision based damage rather than Barbarian. A one-level dip into rogue would give you sneak attack and +2 Ref. Plus you could put all 8 Rogue Ranks into Tumble and have a decent way to get around enemies. Barbarian 1 isn't that useful unless you unlock and take Extra Rage.

Multiattack as a feat would be good for you too, but it is another feat that you have to unlock.

-Lou
Marcus Majarra
07-27-07, 03:37 AM Just one good piece of advice, once a rules item becomes unlocked for your character, it becomes unlocked for ALL his class levels. As such, at any point during which you could retool that rules item (such as during a level kick), you could take the rules item at a level earlier than the one with the expansion slot that unlocked it. As such, you could very well take Jaws of Death as a first-level feat.

I would recommend taking Adamantine Body over Mithral Body, assuming what you really want the most out of your barbarian level(s) is the ability to rage. Given your tendency to favor full-attacks over single attacks, you're better off forgetting about the extra barbarian mobility, and concentrate on your melee durability. Multiattack and Power Attack are always good additions as well. Looking towards the future, you might want to forego the armblade route, and start focusing on bludgeoning weapons. As it is, the armblade is the only non-bludgeoning weapon your warforged is sporting, and taking Weapon Specialization (slam) is a good incentive to take Melee Weapon Master (bludgeoning) as soon as you can (extra accuracy and damage for all your attacks is good). You might want to go with the morningstar, and work your way towards the Three Mountains style feat (Complete Warrior) to add even more punch to your full attacks. Its requirements are useful to you:

Power Attack: increases the damage output of all your attacks
Improved Bull Rush: a good way to qualify for Warforged Juggernaut, if you want. This class will make it so that you're even dangerous while getting yourself into melee.
Cleave: with so many attacks and so much damage, you're bound to take out at least one opponent per round. A feat is very well worth a free attack once per round.

Of course, Three Mountains itself is very nice, since two hits of your morningstar on the same opponent in one round can cause it to become nauseated.

My suggestions are:

Fighter 1 -> + Bar 1 -> + Fighter 5

Feats: Adamantine Body, Jaws of Death, Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Specialization (slam), Power Attack, Second Slam.

Moving forward: take 2 fighter levels to gain Cleave and Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th-level, another 2 fighter levels to gain Improved Bull Rush at 11th level, and take Three Mountains at level 12, along with your first Warforged Juggernaut level. Alternatively, you might want to retool that barbarian level away during the 10th-level bump (at DDXP) to take a total of 12 fighter levels before going Juggernaut and fitting in Multiattack as well.

Barbarian 1 isn't that useful unless you unlock and take Extra Rage.
If it weren't for action points, I'd agree. However, should a barbarian need to rage again, he can always spend 2 of them to gain one use of the ability.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kitequester 07-25-07, 10:56 PM	I'm attending Gen Con this year and will be playing in RPGA events for XE that will have the L7 bump applied. I'm creating my first XE character, ever, and just want to confirm my choices are valid. The Campaign Standards read like stereo instructions, so I figure I'd get some live feedback before showing up to play. My build is as follows: Warforged Bbn 1/ Fighter 6 Str 17 (10 pt buy + 4th level increase) Dex 14 (6 pt buy) con 16 (6 pt buy +2 racial adjustment) Int 10 (2 pt buy) Wis 7 (1 pt buy -2 racial adjustment) Cha 6 (0 pt buy -2 racial adjustment) Expansion slots include: 1st & 2nd Racial substitution levels (Warforged Fighter) 3rd & 4th Jaws of Death (Races of Eberron) 5th & 6th Second Slam (Races of Eberron) 7th Magic Item TBD Level progression had Bbn 1 at first level, and Fighter for levels 2-7. Racial substitution for Ftr 2 and Ftr 4 were both used. Feats as follows: 1st: Mithral Body Ftr1 bonus: Weapon Focus: Slam Ftr 2 Bonus warforged feat per subst. level: Jaws of death 3rd: Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword 6th: Weapon Specialization: Slam Ftr6 bonus feat: Second Slam Planned weapons to include a stock Armblade and a Battlefist from the Eberron Sourcebook. Level kick GP should make these items easily affordable, and the sourcebook is an 'unlimited' source for equipment, including magic items, correct? The one point I'm stuck on is the ability to actually take an expansion feat before it's fully 'paid for'. Jaws of Death takes up the Lvl 3 and 4 expansion slots, but based on when my feat selections come about, I'd need to take it at character level 3. Is it a valid selection? Thanks for looking, feedback would be appreciated.
Marcus Majarra 07-26-07, 12:04 AM	Yes, you can use expansions as soon as you take them, even if they cost you expansion slots beyond your current level. You can take an expansion as soon as you have an empty expansion slot for any of your levels, even if the expansion cost is more than what levels you have without expansions.
Mherduwynn 07-26-07, 12:52 AM	As one of the writers for those "stereo instructions", thank you ever so for that glowing praise... -_- -A (And yes, as listed, it's a perfectly legitimate build.) :)
lseelba 07-26-07, 04:40 AM	Unlocking Racial Substitution levels has to be done at first level AND they have to be the racial substitution levels for your race and starting class (Page 5). If you plan on taking the Warforged Fighter sub levels, you have to start as Fighter 1, not Barb 1. So you'd lose out on the skill points. That was the first thing that popped out at me. I'm still reading your build. EDIT: Other stuff looks ok.
heirodule 07-26-07, 10:39 AM	But you can unlock a racial substitution level for a class level that is after first, right. Like a kalashtar monk 1 could unlock "kalashtar monk level 2", take psi warrior as his level 2 level, and then actually take take "kalashtar monk level 2" at third. For example. ROE says you don't have to take the prior sub levels to get later sub levels. Right?
Marcus Majarra 07-26-07, 12:34 PM	Actually, when you unlock racial substitution levels for one class from one book, you unlock them all at once. Iseelba is right, however. If you want to take warforged fighter substitution levels, fighter has to be your starting class.
Kitequester 07-26-07, 09:20 PM	Thanks for the advice! One minor tweak and he should be ready to play! Full attack for this character should be nasty. Two iterative attacks, two secondary slams, and a secondary bite. The body as weapon ability from Warforged Fighter 4 makes all those attacks a little more potent since they're natural or a result of imbedded items. I read and re-read the FAQ on secondary attacks combined with iterative attacks, and I don't see anything that would prohibit 5 attacks with a full attack action. (Page 87-89 of the 3.5e FAQ). The multiattack feat would also be nice, to help eliminate some of the to-hit penalties.
lseelba 07-27-07, 01:45 AM	Thanks for the advice! One minor tweak and he should be ready to play! Full attack for this character should be nasty. Two iterative attacks, two secondary slams, and a secondary bite. The body as weapon ability from Warforged Fighter 4 makes all those attacks a little more potent since they're natural or a result of imbedded items. I read and re-read the FAQ on secondary attacks combined with iterative attacks, and I don't see anything that would prohibit 5 attacks with a full attack action. (Page 87-89 of the 3.5e FAQ). The multiattack feat would also be nice, to help eliminate some of the to-hit penalties. Yeah you'll have lots of attacks. Basically: Armblade at BAB, 1d10 + STR + Body as Weapon + stuff Armblade at BAB - 5, 1d10 + STR + Body as Weapon + stuff Slam at BAB - 5, 1d8 + 1/2 STR + Body as Weapon + stuff Slam at BAB - 5, 1d8 + 1/2 STR + Body as Weapon + stuff Bite at BAB - 5, 1d6 + 1/2 STR + stuff The slams and bite are treated as a secondary natural attacks so you only get 1/2 STR. The Bite attack doesn't get Body as Weapon (it's neither a slam nor a warforged component). I would seriously consider dipping into a class that would give you precision based damage rather than Barbarian. A one-level dip into rogue would give you sneak attack and +2 Ref. Plus you could put all 8 Rogue Ranks into Tumble and have a decent way to get around enemies. Barbarian 1 isn't that useful unless you unlock and take Extra Rage. Multiattack as a feat would be good for you too, but it is another feat that you have to unlock. -Lou
Marcus Majarra 07-27-07, 03:37 AM	Just one good piece of advice, once a rules item becomes unlocked for your character, it becomes unlocked for ALL his class levels. As such, at any point during which you could retool that rules item (such as during a level kick), you could take the rules item at a level earlier than the one with the expansion slot that unlocked it. As such, you could very well take Jaws of Death as a first-level feat. I would recommend taking Adamantine Body over Mithral Body, assuming what you really want the most out of your barbarian level(s) is the ability to rage. Given your tendency to favor full-attacks over single attacks, you're better off forgetting about the extra barbarian mobility, and concentrate on your melee durability. Multiattack and Power Attack are always good additions as well. Looking towards the future, you might want to forego the armblade route, and start focusing on bludgeoning weapons. As it is, the armblade is the only non-bludgeoning weapon your warforged is sporting, and taking Weapon Specialization (slam) is a good incentive to take Melee Weapon Master (bludgeoning) as soon as you can (extra accuracy and damage for all your attacks is good). You might want to go with the morningstar, and work your way towards the Three Mountains style feat (Complete Warrior) to add even more punch to your full attacks. Its requirements are useful to you: Power Attack: increases the damage output of all your attacks Improved Bull Rush: a good way to qualify for Warforged Juggernaut, if you want. This class will make it so that you're even dangerous while getting yourself into melee. Cleave: with so many attacks and so much damage, you're bound to take out at least one opponent per round. A feat is very well worth a free attack once per round. Of course, Three Mountains itself is very nice, since two hits of your morningstar on the same opponent in one round can cause it to become nauseated. My suggestions are: Fighter 1 -> + Bar 1 -> + Fighter 5 Feats: Adamantine Body, Jaws of Death, Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Specialization (slam), Power Attack, Second Slam. Moving forward: take 2 fighter levels to gain Cleave and Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th-level, another 2 fighter levels to gain Improved Bull Rush at 11th level, and take Three Mountains at level 12, along with your first Warforged Juggernaut level. Alternatively, you might want to retool that barbarian level away during the 10th-level bump (at DDXP) to take a total of 12 fighter levels before going Juggernaut and fitting in Multiattack as well. Barbarian 1 isn't that useful unless you unlock and take Extra Rage. If it weren't for action points, I'd agree. However, should a barbarian need to rage again, he can always spend 2 of them to gain one use of the ability.