Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jesse Heinig 08-29-06, 03:48 PM	What's the favored weapon for characters who channel the power of the Dragon Above? Pick one? Kinda important if you take the War domain.
smerwin29 08-29-06, 03:54 PM	What's the favored weapon for characters who channel the power of the Dragon Above? Pick one? Kinda important if you take the War domain. This was covered in another thread. With the impending release of Faiths of Eberron and as the Factionmasters try to get more of a say in how rules work, you can expect to see the loophole where the Dragon Above clerics getting to pick any domain closed. There will probably be a more limited list available. I tend to think War will not be on that list, but that is a complete guess. If War domain is on the list, we will provide the weapon then. Shawn Crimson Codex Factionmaster
kiddoc 08-29-06, 04:07 PM	100% agreement with Shawn on this one. Dragon Above/Below cherry-pick whatever domain I want is about to get a good dose of Eberron flavoring. I'm personally voting for "Net" as the favored weapon. It's a close second in internal voting behind "boomering" and "blowgun."
Mherduwynn 08-29-06, 05:36 PM	Heh. I was still thinking whip or dart. Maybe sling... (not a sling with stones, JUST a sling). :D -August
smerwin29 08-29-06, 06:28 PM	You guys are being too kind. I was thinking either bite or unarmed strike.
JJeff 08-29-06, 10:03 PM	Oh my.... 3 faction masters replying. This must really be an important issue... At least you guys didn't say Sap....
Jesse Heinig 08-29-06, 10:40 PM	So what happens if I have a character built a particular way and the character becomes invalidated because of the change? I just have to throw away the character and start over?
kiddoc 08-29-06, 11:50 PM	So what happens if I have a character built a particular way and the character becomes invalidated because of the change? I just have to throw away the character and start over? Well, that's always an option that you reserve the right to invoke. I doubt we'd ever FORCE that on you. In this case, we've had an extensive discussion with the Eberron campaign designer about his intentions for domains like Dragon Above and Dragon Below--and cherry-picking any domain and weapon you want isn't among his intentions. Only trouble is, WoTC likes to release books on a schedule--you know, to keep the business steady. In this case we'd likely not penalize you for it, simply ask you to adapt to the minor tweaks that the guy that wrote the game feels are most appropriate given the history, flavor, and future direction of the campaign.
Jesse Heinig 08-30-06, 12:04 AM	Let me cite a specific case in which this could happen. Let's say I have a character who goes into the prestige class of Pious Templar or Divine Crusader, from Complete Divine. Both of these classes have as a requirement the feat: Weapon Focus (deity's favored weapon). If that weapon changes, then the character must also change the feat or else no longer be able to pursue the class. An even nastier example (though less likely) would be someone using the Off the Beaten Path card to play a favored soul, then using that favored soul's proficiency and weapon focus to gain entry into a prestige class. (You could even, in this case, play something totally oddball like a Covenant of Light raptoran with the foot spike weapon, though I presume that would take some expansion slots.) Changing the favored weapon also changes the Favored Soul class proficiency benefit and thus could invalidate the character - for instance, a character with spiked chain proficiency from the Favored Soul class ability (which grants proficiency with the deity's favored weapon even if it's exotic, unlike the clerical War domain) would be able to enter the Exotic Weapon Master prestige class, but would lose that class if the deific weapon changed. These examples may seem deliberately obtuse, but believe me, they do have some consequences to the character I plan to play! :D Just checkin'. I don't want to have a character become trapped in some sort of weird limbo over what's permitted! Well, that's always an option that you reserve the right to invoke. I doubt we'd ever FORCE that on you. In this case, we've had an extensive discussion with the Eberron campaign designer about his intentions for domains like Dragon Above and Dragon Below--and cherry-picking any domain and weapon you want isn't among his intentions. Only trouble is, WoTC likes to release books on a schedule--you know, to keep the business steady. In this case we'd likely not penalize you for it, simply ask you to adapt to the minor tweaks that the guy that wrote the game feels are most appropriate given the history, flavor, and future direction of the campaign.
kiddoc 08-30-06, 12:12 AM	These examples may seem deliberately obtuse, but believe me, they do have some consequences to the character I plan to play! :D Just checkin'. I don't want to have a character become trapped in some sort of weird limbo over what's permitted! You are being "deliberately obtuse." :D No, I kid. I appreciate the example--that's just the thing we've had focus and playtest groups look into. You needn't worry, however. While there are sure to be some glitches, this one is way at the top of our list. Right now the current update to the Campaign Standards (HUGE!) is due out at the end of September. It will be absolutely, completely, and TOTALLY impossible for any Xen-Ex character to have obtained a prestige class by then. Moreover, few, if any characters will have even come close to advancing past level 3, much less level 2. Given the current system of character tracking, and our usual willingness not to "screw" anyone, it's entirely probably that all possible precautions and allowances in this incredibly rare circumstance will be considered.
Jesse Heinig 08-30-06, 12:15 AM	End of September . . . say, what was the retirement date for the first batch of modules? The standards will be well-received and I'd especially like to make sure I'm in compliance before I have a character with too much experience on the books. You are being "deliberately obtuse." :D No, I kid. I appreciate the example--that's just the thing we've had focus and playtest groups look into. You needn't worry, however. While there are sure to be some glitches, this one is way at the top of our list. Right now the current update to the Campaign Standards (HUGE!) is due out at the end of September. It will be absolutely, completely, and TOTALLY impossible for any Xen-Ex character to have obtained a prestige class by then. Moreover, few, if any characters will have even come close to advancing past level 3, much less level 2. Given the current system of character tracking, and our usual willingness not to "screw" anyone, it's entirely probably that all possible precautions and allowances in this incredibly rare circumstance will be considered.
psgj 08-30-06, 01:51 AM	End of September . . . say, what was the retirement date for the first batch of modules? December 31st, 2006. psgj
tilloch 08-31-06, 12:13 AM	Not to be even more obtuse, but how about an Asherati cleric with the Sand and Thirst domains? Tilloch
jeffpicard 08-31-06, 01:08 AM	Might I suggest that for the dragon above favoured lean a bit towards the alignment weapons for weapon of the deity (SC) pick one matching your alignment as your feats at creation (limited to longsword, warhammer, mace... and I forget chaos and evil's base weapon) Oh, and having mentioned Weapon of the Deity, can we get a thought as to what each of the Ebberon deities provide as their enhancement via that spell?
smerwin29 08-31-06, 08:27 AM	Oh, and having mentioned Weapon of the Deity, can we get a thought as to what each of the Ebberon deities provide as their enhancement via that spell? With the impending release of Faiths of Eberron yada yada yada.
Jesse Heinig 09-13-06, 06:21 PM	Well, the Faiths of Eberron preview page is up, complete with the compiled listing of faiths and the table of contents. Dragon Above doesn't appear on either list, at least not that I've seen.
smerwin29 09-13-06, 06:47 PM	Excellent! Blowgun it is!
jeffpicard 09-13-06, 07:12 PM	Actually, I'd tend to argue a different direction today than I would have suggested before: the Dragon Above does not have a favoured weapon listed, therefore it does not have a favoured weapon (Thus the granted ability of the War domain and other effects that reference a favoured weapon do nothing, unless that effect specifically provides an alternate option for not having a favoured weapon [such as Weapon of the deity's alignment options]) Keeps the spell useful, but makes the war domain useless without a true war deity
Sieylianna 09-13-06, 08:10 PM	Actually, I'd tend to argue a different direction today than I would have suggested before: the Dragon Above does not have a favoured weapon listed, therefore it does not have a favoured weapon (Thus the granted ability of the War domain and other effects that reference a favoured weapon do nothing, unless that effect specifically provides an alternate option for not having a favoured weapon [such as Weapon of the deity's alignment options]) Keeps the spell useful, but makes the war domain useless without a true war deity It also neuters favored souls, who would lose both weapon focus and weapon specialization with the deitiy's favored weapon. Ed
Jesse Heinig 09-13-06, 09:29 PM	It also also means that it would be impossible to be a pious templar or divine crusader for the Dragon Above, since you must have Weapon Focus in the deity's weapon for those prestige classes.
JBeauMI 09-14-06, 06:37 PM	For bad weapons, I still favor the shuriken. There is something about 1d2 damage and a 10 foot range increment that seems so... If you spend the gold to alchemically silver it, you don't even need to roll damage.
smerwin29 09-14-06, 09:09 PM	And, if I remember correctly, they are even treated as ammunition, so they are destroyed after they hit! Sounding like we might have a winner!
Sieylianna 09-14-06, 10:08 PM	I picked up Faiths of Eberron today and there is no mention of the Dragon Above at all. The closest thing is the dragon cults of the Seren barbarians (which is where I based my favored soul), but it has no information on alignement or weapon. It does say that most clerics take the dragon domain. Ed
jeffpicard 09-14-06, 10:14 PM	It also neuters favored souls, who would lose both weapon focus and weapon specialization with the deitiy's favored weapon. Ed The Dragon above isn't a deity as such, both the ECS and the Campaign standards refer to it being an option when not worshipping a deity. The Favoured Sould EXPRESSLY requires that you devote yourself to a deity and not a cause or source of divine power. Therefore you cannot be a favoured soul of the dragon above in the first place. As for the prestige classes the poster after you mentioned, I say Tough ;-)
Marcus Majarra 09-14-06, 11:55 PM	For the favored weapons available to clerics who channel the spiritual remains of the Dragon Above, I would recommend that the cleric select one weapon that corresponds to his alignment, as per the Weapon of the Deity spell, from Faiths of Eberron: Chaos: Battleaxe Evil: Light Flail Good: Warhammer Law: Longsword Neutral: Heavy Mace
Sieylianna 09-19-06, 07:47 AM	Can we get an official answer? Now that character entry seems to be working, I'd like to enter my PC. Ed
kiddoc 09-19-06, 08:44 AM	Can we get an official answer? Now that character entry seems to be working, I'd like to enter my PC. Ed Official answer IS coming in the next CS. We're wrapping up edits this week and the goal is to have it out as close to Sept. 30 as possible. Btw. I'm now voting for shuriken. ;)