Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hsien 07-12-06, 03:03 PM	Trying to understand the Expansion List part of character creation. I see how as you advance in level you gain items, feats, spells, and eventually Prestige classes to place on your list. Question: 1: How many items, feats etc.. can you put on your expansion slot list at 1st level and have access to them? I have to assume you start with at least 2 "expansions" because of the Racial Substitution Level option costs 2 slots and must be taken at 1st level. Appreciate any input/insight. "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake." - Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)
Herrbard 07-12-06, 03:28 PM	Basically, you have one expansion slot at first level. If you choose something that takes up more than one slot, you do not get another choice until you reach that level. For instance, if you choose to take the shifter racial substitution level to create a first level shifter barbarian, it use two expansion slots. This means you cannot fill another slot until you reach third level. You do not have access to the higher slots until you reach those levels.
wiccadshadow 07-28-06, 10:25 PM	So... lets say i want to make a Half-Drow Scout. "Child of Vulkoor" allows the race, Blackwheel Company allows the class... so far so good. Now I want the alternate Scout ability (i don't, but lets say i do) That takes Expansion Slot 1 which I get at first level, right? So... If i want access to the Drow Skirmisher Feat, and to use the Drow Long Knife... how do I go about this? Does it mean at level 2 I put one of them in the expansion slot, and the other one in the expansion slot for level 3?
Japangirl 07-28-06, 10:41 PM	I believe that is correct.
delroland 07-29-06, 08:48 PM	So... lets say i want to make a Half-Drow Scout. "Child of Vulkoor" allows the race, Blackwheel Company allows the class... so far so good. Now I want the alternate Scout ability (i don't, but lets say i do) That takes Expansion Slot 1 which I get at first level, right? So... If i want access to the Drow Skirmisher Feat, and to use the Drow Long Knife... how do I go about this? Does it mean at level 2 I put one of them in the expansion slot, and the other one in the expansion slot for level 3? Here is how I believe it works: The "Child of Vulkoor" card occupies your action point stack, not your expansion list. The scout class is unlocked by your faction, so you do not need to put it on your expansion list. The Drow Skirmisher feat and the drow long knife are locked in XE, and if you want access to them, you have to unlock them by placing them on your expansion list. So you could put Drow Skirmisher on there at first level, thus allowing you to take the feat at character creation, and you could put the long knife on your list at second level, thus allowing you to purchase them at that level. The scout alternate ability is actually taken at third level, so you would not have to put it on your expansion list until then. Though it does not apply to your example, this would apply whether you were playing a drow or a half-drow, because the drow level adjustment does not deny you a second-level expansion item; it simply means you do not level in your class at second level.
wiccadshadow 07-29-06, 09:37 PM	Cool. I'll go with that logic til' i'm shown/told/read otherwise. :D
jeffpicard 07-29-06, 09:42 PM	The scout alternate ability is actually taken at third level, so you would not have to put it on your expansion list until then. this is the only thing you have Wrong: According to the Campaign standards The ONLY time you can put an alternate class feature on your expansion list is at first level. ("You must choose at 1st level even if the normal rules for the class feature would have you make the choice at a later level.") the only way to get around that is a campaign card (barring a change to the campaign rules) So if one wanted to play a Drow Scout with Drow skirmisher and a Drow long knife, and the alternate class feature, in the faction that unlocks scout: Creation card occupying 3 stack slots/action points 1st level: Scout (you can ONLY take the Alternate feature for your initial class) 1st expansion item: alternate class feature for scout 2nd & third Exp Items: Drow Long Knife and Drow Skirmisher in either order Now since the person who asked that particular question does not want to alternate scout ability, then the feat at 1st level (and as your 1st level feat) and the item at second will be all good. Just felt I should point out the Alternate feature ONLY at first level thing incase someone else was wanting to consider it
delroland 07-29-06, 10:16 PM	My bad, the above is correct. Compelely lame, but correct. Does that mean if I choose alternate advancement, I can only take the first level abilities, or does using the first level expansion slot unlock all levels of substitution levels?
jeffpicard 07-29-06, 10:51 PM	I agree its totally lame And the wording is even more lame: alternate feature: "...You may choose the alternate class feature..." some classes do have more than one alternate class feature, this is quite ambigous as to whether all are unlocked by the selection, of if you have to pick just one racial sub level: "You may choose a racial..." seems to imply just one of the levels and not all 3 ([B}PLEASE campaign folks tell us this is not the right interpretation[/B}) However both are worded to make me believe that you just unlocki the particular feature you want for later use. so yes my reading leans toward you can pick Warforged fighter level 4 as your 1st (and second)level expansion item I really hope though that it's not limited to one level: it would be pretty silly to burn 2 expansion slots for something that's the basic equivalent of one feat. Getting all 3 though, would be worth 2 expansion slots and the restriction that it be your 1st level expansion.
TimRat 07-30-06, 09:37 PM	As far as i know it unlocks all the features of the alternate class ability. You have to take it at first level even though you may not get the ability till 5th (like a paladin). but you would get access to mroe than one as i read it know since it doesn't say otherwise.
Grantor 07-31-06, 07:55 PM	As far as i know it unlocks all the features of the alternate class ability. You have to take it at first level even though you may not get the ability till 5th (like a paladin). but you would get access to mroe than one as i read it know since it doesn't say otherwise. My understanding is that, if there is more than one set of alternate class abilites for a class/race combination, you must select only one of those sets and you must accept all of the alternate class abilities as you come to them. Also, the alternate class features must be for the class you select at 1st level. If you want Changling Wizard, you had better choose wizard as your first level class, not rogue.
Mherduwynn 08-02-06, 03:05 AM	Corrected and clairified in the Campaign Source material 1.0. (Yes, spending the slot unlocks the ability to take substitution levels or alternate class features. Fear not the lameness. :) ) -August
raalynthslair 08-05-06, 06:21 PM	Also, the alternate class features must be for the class you select at 1st level. If you want Changling Wizard, you had better choose wizard as your first level class, not rogue. So what about taking classes for multiclassing? Does this mean you need to select the later classes when you're getting to that level and have that level's expansion slot - or do these need to be picked at level 1 (and what of Prestige classes?)....
jeffpicard 08-05-06, 09:25 PM	So what about taking classes for multiclassing? Does this mean you need to select the later classes when you're getting to that level and have that level's expansion slot - or do these need to be picked at level 1 (and what of Prestige classes?).... Alternate class features can only be unlocked for your starting class and only at first level, period. As for simply taking additional classes, regular classes don't get placed on your expansion list, they're only unlocked by cards, or by your faction. As long as you meet the requirements of a class, and have at least 3 levels in every non-favoured class you have, you can just take one when you level. Prestige classes from outside the core books (PHB, DMG, MM and ECS) can be placed on your expansion list at 5,10,15 or 20, and can be taken thereafter
raalynthslair 08-05-06, 11:03 PM	As for simply taking additional classes, regular classes don't get placed on your expansion list, they're only unlocked by cards, or by your faction. As long as you meet the requirements of a class, and have at least 3 levels in every non-favoured class you have, you can just take one when you level. Prestige classes from outside the core books (PHB, DMG, MM and ECS) can be placed on your expansion list at 5,10,15 or 20, and can be taken thereafter So the favored class thing you list at creation is seperate from the expansion slot thing. And you have the racial favored class +1 you select, OR 2 you select (if human or half-elf - niether have a favored class) and that's it for your classes - and if I got this right, you can multiclass between these (Say a Sorceror/Rogue for a Halfling if SOR is listed as the "+1" (above term) listed class)? And these would be free of the "3 level" thing as they're the listed "favored classes" for the character? Prestige classes: Listed at every 5th level, got it. Does this mean you can ONLY go to those classes at these levels as well (or is it any time after you reach this level that the expansion slot is unlocked at - ie: a 5th level slot contains prestige class "Something" so you can start taking levels of "Something" at 5th or greater than 5th level)? ~ Z o r ~
lordtiberiusfoxx 08-05-06, 11:06 PM	Post deleted. Answered my own question and I can't delete my post. :(
GreatSiron 08-05-06, 11:18 PM	Does anyone know if you can take starmetal as an expantion item?
jeffpicard 08-05-06, 11:38 PM	So the favored class thing you list at creation is seperate from the expansion slot thing. And you have the racial favored class +1 you select, OR 2 you select (if human or half-elf - niether have a favored class) and that's it for your classes - and if I got this right, you can multiclass between these (Say a Sorceror/Rogue for a Halfling if SOR is listed as the "+1" (above term) listed class)? And these would be free of the "3 level" thing as they're the listed "favored classes" for the character? Exactly there, your favoured classes have nothing to do with your expansion list, that's only for unlocking stuff that is locked and non-restricted and that's also right on for your halfling rogue Your first class doesn;t have to be one of your favoured ones either, but it's only your first class you can put raciial sub levels OR alternate class features in your first expansion slot Prestige classes: Listed at every 5th level, got it. Does this mean you can ONLY go to those classes at these levels as well (or is it any time after you reach this level that the expansion slot is unlocked at - ie: a 5th level slot contains prestige class "Something" so you can start taking levels of "Something" at 5th or greater than 5th level)? ~ Z o r ~ You can take levels in any unlocked prestige class at any time, the only restriction are the normal pre-reqs of the class and the '3 levels of each non-favoured class before adding a new class' rule Does anyone know if you can take starmetal as an expantion item? it was on the MoH restricted list, so until we hear otherwise, assume the answer is no
raalynthslair 08-06-06, 02:39 PM	First thanks for clearing a lot of this up for me. Sorry if I've been a pain in the butt. ;) Your first class doesn;t have to be one of your favoured ones either, but it's only your first class you can put raciial sub levels OR alternate class features in your first expansion slot Would doing this, however, require you to gain three levels in this non-favored class before gaining levels in any other classes? Does that count your favored classes? You can take levels in any unlocked prestige class at any time, the only restriction are the normal pre-reqs of the class and the '3 levels of each non-favoured class before adding a new class' rule And after level one, aside from the prestige class option you can select at levels 5...10... etc can you select other classes in a later expansion slot if you decide you want to multiclass that "direction?" Or would those fall under the 5,10, etc rule like prestige classes? And one more (hopefully last) thing... Races. I know you can unlock races, from what I've read anyhow... All the core races from PHB and ECS (save for a few) are open, and a few "extras" for factions (I can't find the Codex faction ones anywhere - ie: I can't find "Incarnum" anywhere in the stores; and which "Something or other of Dragons" is that other title again? *g*) having a race or two open to them... can you select other races as an expansion slot or is this with a creation card only - thus taking an expansion slot anyway (for the sake of it being a race/class thing)?
Lightblade 08-06-06, 03:21 PM	If your first class is not one of your favored classes (racial or secondary), then you must take 3 levels of that class before you can take levels in other classes, except your favored classes. Wow, that's confusing. Time for an example. Lets say you make a warforged named Spike. You see him being a little sneaky in the future, so you make his secondary favored class Rogue, in addition to the racial favored class of Fighter. However, you like the racial subsitution levels of Artifacer, so you start as a first level Artificer. Now, you must take at least 3 levels of Artifacer before you can take a class (base or prestiege) that is not Artificer, Fighter or Rogue. Once you have at least 3 leves of artifacer, you can take levels in another class. Lets now say Spike is 7th level now: Artifacer 3, Fighter 4. You want Spike to become a Spellcarved Soldier. Spellcarved soldier is from Races of Eberron, so either you need a campaign card that gives access to it, or put it on your expansion list at 5th level. Now, at eighth level, you are an Artifacer 3, Fighter 4, Spellcarved Soldier 1. Now, you must take 2 more levels in Spellcarved Soldier before you take any class that is not one Artificer, Fighter, Rogue, or Spellcarved Soldier. For the second question: no, you cannot put base classes on the expansion list. The only ways to get extra base classes are from your faction (each unlocks 3) or Campaign Cards. The same goes for Races: your faction will unlock 2 races, and campaign cards can unlock others. For the record, the only PHB or ECS race that needs an expansion card are the Kalashtar.
jeffpicard 08-06-06, 10:00 PM	As lightblade said, you can't unlock races or base classes without a card, but note that your Stack and your expansion list are totally seperate entities Your stack (of cards) connects with your Action points, you have a minimum of 3 no matter what you do, and a max of 4 with enough cards at first level (barring heroic spirit which increases these numbers) Your expansion list, where you choose and unlock items is a block of items, you get one slot here per level, though you can use your second level slot early if you want one of the special first level only unlocks that costs 2 expansion slots
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 09:40 AM	Lets say you make a warforged named Spike. You see him being a little sneaky in the future, so you make his secondary favored class Rogue, in addition to the racial favored class of Fighter. However, you like the racial subsitution levels of Artifacer, so you start as a first level Artificer. Now, you must take at least 3 levels of Artifacer before you can take a class (base or prestiege) that is not Artificer, Fighter or Rogue. Once you have at least 3 leves of artifacer, you can take levels in another class. Lets now say Spike is 7th level now: Artifacer 3, Fighter 4. You want Spike to become a Spellcarved Soldier. Spellcarved soldier is from Races of Eberron, so either you need a campaign card that gives access to it, or put it on your expansion list at 5th level. Now, at eighth level, you are an Artifacer 3, Fighter 4, Spellcarved Soldier 1. Now, you must take 2 more levels in Spellcarved Soldier before you take any class that is not one Artificer, Fighter, Rogue, or Spellcarved Soldier. Thank you, that clears up the few things I was unsure of with that. ^_^ I appreciate it. Now if I can just determine WHAT a "Skarn" and "Spellscale" (and totemist for that matter) are... *g* And please don't say "a race" or "a class/prest. class". *lol* Are they (the races) gobinoid, plane-touched or elemental-touched (a la Tiefling/Aesimir, etc) or what-not. I don't know anything about these two - and can't find the books they're from anywhere around. Heck I didn't know one of them even existed until a little over a week ago when I read about it on here! *lol*
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 08-07-06, 09:47 AM	Skarn are in Magic of Incarnum and Spellscales are in Races of the Dragon.
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 10:24 AM	Skarn are in Magic of Incarnum and Spellscales are in Races of the Dragon. I had gathered that much. I was more curious as to what they are. Are they monsters from one of the MM's revised to be player character races, or are they an entirely new race only in those newer books... Are they tall, short, humanoid, goblinoid, look like stone, look like a pile of muck, are they four-armed, winged, do they have neon green skin and neon pink polka dots, or are they leopard print patterened? *g* Ok, well not REALLY asking about those latter few. I was more looking for information on what they were really. I've never heard of either before, and as I said - those books are kinda hard to find for me. Bad locale for gaming stuff I suppose. :(
Harliquinn 08-07-06, 10:27 AM	Skarn are essentially humans with reptilian subtype. They have arm, back and leg spines, of which the arms are usable as natural weapons. They tend towards lawful and are a very martial race who view themselves as superior to many other races. Spellscales are dragon-blooded humanoids with draconic aspects to their appearance. They are vain and charismatic, often specializing in magical professions. They can perform a meditation every day for a minor skill bonus and a feat (Usually a meta-magic feat that may be applied a certain number of times a day). This meditation can change each day and requires performing some 'task' or 'thought process' depending upon the dragon you meditate on.
raalynthslair 08-07-06, 10:33 AM	Skarn are essentially humans with reptilian subtype. They have arm, back and leg spines, of which the arms are usable as natural weapons. They tend towards lawful and are a very martial race who view themselves as superior to many other races. So Narn, with a bit of LizardMen thrown in for good looks, and a twist of "Centauri" in their mentality towards others? Sounds like quite a cocktail... Shaken, not stirred, of course. *g* Spellscales are dragon-blooded humanoids with draconic aspects to their appearance. They are vain and charismatic, often specializing in magical professions. They can perform a meditation every day for a minor skill bonus and a feat (Usually a meta-magic feat that may be applied a certain number of times a day). This meditation can change each day and requires performing some 'task' or 'thought process' depending upon the dragon you meditate on. So they're almost like Tieflings and Aesimirs (I know I am butchering at least one of those names - they both look wrong somehow) with some instance of dragon co-mingling in the family tree (instead of "outsider" and/or "elemental" - as in the cases cited). That meta-magic feat thing makes them sound like excellent casters (too bad the casters get pained with house-cat HP and horrid saves and skills - else I'd considered that option a little more).
Harliquinn 08-07-06, 10:37 AM	The spellscales make excellent spontaneous casters (CHA bonus) with their meditation and dragonblood. They are the least likely to be mistaken for a human, as their facial features can have dramatic draconic aspects (scales, etc.) They tend to accessorize a lot as well and are always well kept.