Expansion slots and sub-typed items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Expansion slots and sub-typed items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Istaran
12-18-06, 04:07 PM In the DMG and elsewhere, the writers sometimes lump different varieties of items into a single segment. Examples in the DMG would be the Feather Tokens (different varieties with different effects) and the Pearls of Power (different levels with a simple numerical difference). From Races of Dragon there are similar groupings, such as Folding Traps (different ones for different types of traps) and Momento Magicka (different levels, much like Pearl of Power). I'm sure there are other examples in other books, I just can't name them off the top of my head.

Can one of these groupings be unlocked by a single expansion slot? For example, can I spend one slot to unlock Momento Magicka and then buy level 1 and level 2 versions, or do I need to unlock Momento Magicka - 1st level, and Momento Magicka - 2nd level seperately?
Skerrit
12-18-06, 04:45 PM You are right, that's not specifically addressed (adds a note for v2.0). The problem is that often such classes of magic items have members in multiple sources and getting them all with more than one slot is very powerful. I would say they are likely different magic items with different costs, and so each is a different expansion slot.
Istaran
12-21-06, 04:38 PM A class of magic items that spans multiple sources is, by definition, not contained within a single segment. To clarify, by "segment" I mean a chunk of text in the DMG or other item source which begins with an item name as a header (such as "Pearl of Power", "Quaal's Feather Token", or "Amulet of Natural Amour" for example) and ends with the prices/prereqs to craft or buy items of that type, listed out for each subtype when applicable. Pearl of Power, for example, lists several spell levels for which Pearls can be purchased to replenish, Quaal's Feather Token lists several varieties of Tokens, and Amulet of Natural Armour lists various levels of AC improvement which can are available. Any category that spans multiple sources fails to meet the definition of what I was asking about. If there are Quaal's Feather Tokens in other sources, or something like that, you could require specifying which book the items are to be taken from to disambiguate.

Also, the example in the XECS shows unlocking "Vest of Resistance" as taking one slot, though Vest of Resistance is subtyped into the +1, +2, etc. varieties which have different costs, pre-reqs to craft, effects in game, etc.
kiddoc
12-22-06, 10:04 AM A class of magic items that spans multiple sources is, by definition, not contained within a single segment. To clarify, by "segment" I mean a chunk of text in the DMG or other item source which begins with an item name as a header (such as "Pearl of Power", "Quaal's Feather Token", or "Amulet of Natural Amour" for example) and ends with the prices/prereqs to craft or buy items of that type, listed out for each subtype when applicable. Pearl of Power, for example, lists several spell levels for which Pearls can be purchased to replenish, Quaal's Feather Token lists several varieties of Tokens, and Amulet of Natural Armour lists various levels of AC improvement which can are available. Any category that spans multiple sources fails to meet the definition of what I was asking about. If there are Quaal's Feather Tokens in other sources, or something like that, you could require specifying which book the items are to be taken from to disambiguate.

Also, the example in the XECS shows unlocking "Vest of Resistance" as taking one slot, though Vest of Resistance is subtyped into the +1, +2, etc. varieties which have different costs, pre-reqs to craft, effects in game, etc.

I would agree with Greg. Each item should be counted as a separate instance for the purpose of expansion slots. This will prevent the "multiple strange sources" issue as well as any other confusion that should arise. So, in your expansion slot, you would unlock: "Amulet of Natural Armor +1"... Of course, you wouldn't need to unlock that but for argument's sake... :D
Harliquinn
12-22-06, 10:52 AM Could you clarify which of these is correct?

A) We need to unlock different named subtype items of the same type AND we need to unlock each + (plus) of an item.
[Example: Feather Token (Tree) and Feather Token (Boat) need 2 Expansion unlocks AND [Item] of Resistance +1 and [Item] of Resistance +2 need 2 Expansion unlocks if from a secondary source]

B) We need to unlock different named subtype items of the same type but we do NOT need to unlock each + (plus) of an item.
[Example: Feather Token (Tree) and Feather Token (Boat) need 2 Expansion unlocks BUT [Item] of Resistance +1 and [Item] of Resistance +2 need only 1 Expansion unlock if from a secondary source]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Istaran 12-18-06, 04:07 PM	In the DMG and elsewhere, the writers sometimes lump different varieties of items into a single segment. Examples in the DMG would be the Feather Tokens (different varieties with different effects) and the Pearls of Power (different levels with a simple numerical difference). From Races of Dragon there are similar groupings, such as Folding Traps (different ones for different types of traps) and Momento Magicka (different levels, much like Pearl of Power). I'm sure there are other examples in other books, I just can't name them off the top of my head. Can one of these groupings be unlocked by a single expansion slot? For example, can I spend one slot to unlock Momento Magicka and then buy level 1 and level 2 versions, or do I need to unlock Momento Magicka - 1st level, and Momento Magicka - 2nd level seperately?
Skerrit 12-18-06, 04:45 PM	You are right, that's not specifically addressed (adds a note for v2.0). The problem is that often such classes of magic items have members in multiple sources and getting them all with more than one slot is very powerful. I would say they are likely different magic items with different costs, and so each is a different expansion slot.
Istaran 12-21-06, 04:38 PM	A class of magic items that spans multiple sources is, by definition, not contained within a single segment. To clarify, by "segment" I mean a chunk of text in the DMG or other item source which begins with an item name as a header (such as "Pearl of Power", "Quaal's Feather Token", or "Amulet of Natural Amour" for example) and ends with the prices/prereqs to craft or buy items of that type, listed out for each subtype when applicable. Pearl of Power, for example, lists several spell levels for which Pearls can be purchased to replenish, Quaal's Feather Token lists several varieties of Tokens, and Amulet of Natural Armour lists various levels of AC improvement which can are available. Any category that spans multiple sources fails to meet the definition of what I was asking about. If there are Quaal's Feather Tokens in other sources, or something like that, you could require specifying which book the items are to be taken from to disambiguate. Also, the example in the XECS shows unlocking "Vest of Resistance" as taking one slot, though Vest of Resistance is subtyped into the +1, +2, etc. varieties which have different costs, pre-reqs to craft, effects in game, etc.
kiddoc 12-22-06, 10:04 AM	A class of magic items that spans multiple sources is, by definition, not contained within a single segment. To clarify, by "segment" I mean a chunk of text in the DMG or other item source which begins with an item name as a header (such as "Pearl of Power", "Quaal's Feather Token", or "Amulet of Natural Amour" for example) and ends with the prices/prereqs to craft or buy items of that type, listed out for each subtype when applicable. Pearl of Power, for example, lists several spell levels for which Pearls can be purchased to replenish, Quaal's Feather Token lists several varieties of Tokens, and Amulet of Natural Armour lists various levels of AC improvement which can are available. Any category that spans multiple sources fails to meet the definition of what I was asking about. If there are Quaal's Feather Tokens in other sources, or something like that, you could require specifying which book the items are to be taken from to disambiguate. Also, the example in the XECS shows unlocking "Vest of Resistance" as taking one slot, though Vest of Resistance is subtyped into the +1, +2, etc. varieties which have different costs, pre-reqs to craft, effects in game, etc. I would agree with Greg. Each item should be counted as a separate instance for the purpose of expansion slots. This will prevent the "multiple strange sources" issue as well as any other confusion that should arise. So, in your expansion slot, you would unlock: "Amulet of Natural Armor +1"... Of course, you wouldn't need to unlock that but for argument's sake... :D
Harliquinn 12-22-06, 10:52 AM	Could you clarify which of these is correct? A) We need to unlock different named subtype items of the same type AND we need to unlock each + (plus) of an item. [Example: Feather Token (Tree) and Feather Token (Boat) need 2 Expansion unlocks AND [Item] of Resistance +1 and [Item] of Resistance +2 need 2 Expansion unlocks if from a secondary source] B) We need to unlock different named subtype items of the same type but we do NOT need to unlock each + (plus) of an item. [Example: Feather Token (Tree) and Feather Token (Boat) need 2 Expansion unlocks BUT [Item] of Resistance +1 and [Item] of Resistance +2 need only 1 Expansion unlock if from a secondary source]