Post/Author/DateTime	Post
echoota 07-23-07, 07:51 AM	I seem to remember that we'd be getting some kind of public information on what kind of xp and gold one could get in the various mods after the database issues in the opening season, but I don't see anything posted on this during this season. It's coming up now as we try and cram in mods right at the end. Our group did Eyes part 1 this last weekend and there was a problem with reporting the mod so we're going to have to wait till the 27th at least to get that reported now since the DM had to scrap the whole reporting session and redo it. In the meantime we plan to do several more mods before the 27th and the players aren't going to have access to those rewards till then. So I guess what I'm asking is, assuming that a party did very well in Eyes of the Lich Queen part 1, getting all of the plot hooks accomplished: How much gold on average could a player expect to get? Would a fresh 4th level character completing part 1 be able to level at the end? This would be great to know as I'd like to run some more mods for the group and I have no problem granting presumed bonuses to the players of this previous session. The story objects aren't a big deal. I think the most important question is whether the 4th level characters would be 5th for these upcoming sessions.
Harliquinn 07-23-07, 08:33 AM	I can't say for sure, but I believe it says that the rewards for Lich Queen parts were roughly equivalent to the rewards for 2 rounds of normal play (Since it takes 8 hours or so instead of 4). Given that and the fact that my characters went from Level 4 to Level 7 with just 6 adventures each, I would say it's safe to assume that the 4th level PC's would be 5th with EotLQ 1. Harliquinn
Lilinthra 07-23-07, 10:56 AM	Just part 1 is not enough to level to 5th. When I played it, the reporting for the module went to an incorrect faction, which was still a brand-new default character that hadn't been played. That wasn't enough to level him to 5th. I'm not sure if it's okay to post the EV increase (factionmasters?), but I can provide that for you.
lseelba 07-23-07, 12:51 PM	Let me just clear up one thing. EotLQ Part 1 and 2 were originally SUPPOSED to be double reward mods, but for political, or database, or some other reason they were never made double rewards. That being said, you should expect only as much XP and GP from each of the parts that you would get from a normal faction module. If we are lucky it will be changed for Part 3 and Part 4. -Lou
Harliquinn 07-23-07, 01:23 PM	Well the Story Objects were quite nice :)
Marcus Majarra 07-23-07, 04:36 PM	Well the Story Objects were quite nice Yep. And they got my changeling a feat he otherwise would never be able to qualify for... free of charge! Gotta love story objects every now and then.
oceanika 07-23-07, 05:13 PM	That being said, you should expect only as much XP and GP from each of the parts that you would get from a normal faction module. What? We played for 10 hours for just regular rewards? That does not make me happy...
Harliquinn 07-23-07, 06:55 PM	What? We played for 10 hours for just regular rewards? That does not make me happy... Well that depends on what you consider a 'reward' :) The story object is 100x better than the amount of gp/xp from another adventure round.
Marcus Majarra 07-24-07, 12:08 AM	I'm fairly confident Eyes of the Lich Queen awarded double rewards for each part.
lseelba 07-24-07, 01:09 AM	I'm fairly confident Eyes of the Lich Queen awarded double rewards for each part. Nope. Like I said they were supposed to when the adaptations were written, but they weren't coded into the database as double rewards. Ask smerwin about it...
smerwin29 07-24-07, 08:30 AM	I've said this elsewhere, but I will say it again. This has nothing to do with coding in the database. We've had to adjust the number of adventures released on a continuing basis, which means the XP and EV given have had to be adjusted as well. Each part of EotLQ are worth about as much as an Expedition adventure, which is USUALLY worth a little more than a Faction adventure. We do not want to make anything worth double something else, especially an adventure that you can only play with one of your characters. That leaves less XP in the fountain for "secondary characters" that we are trying to keep even with the level bump, if possible.
Harliquinn 07-24-07, 09:35 AM	Shawn Given that we are a year into the campaign with a level bump to 7th, is there any more news about how long the campaign is expected to last both in calendar time and in levels? I know previous campaigns were 2 years and made it to about 15th, but there are also new people in charge of this, including wonderful faction masters :) John
smerwin29 07-24-07, 09:44 AM	I will have to leave that question for Chris Tulach. If he gives me permission to answer, then I will say what I know.
Harliquinn 07-24-07, 09:48 AM	Thanks! As I've mentioned before this is my favorite campaign to date for a number of reasons, and I hope to see it continue for a while.
Marcus Majarra 07-24-07, 12:55 PM	I'd like to see how far I can get my character. Hopefully, the campaign will last throughout GenCon next year (and maybe I can check the Con for once).
Mherduwynn 07-29-07, 11:40 PM	What? We played for 10 hours for just regular rewards? That does not make me happy... Wait... You got to game with friends and have a good time for ten hours, an opportunity many gamers would kill for, and you are ~not~ happy? <sighs> How the times have changed.... :(
lseelba 07-30-07, 12:59 AM	Wait... You got to game with friends and have a good time for ten hours, an opportunity many gamers would kill for, and you are ~not~ happy? <sighs> How the times have changed.... :( I must get a new dragonmark for every future mod I play :) -Lou
echoota 07-30-07, 01:33 AM	Wait... You got to game with friends and have a good time for ten hours, an opportunity many gamers would kill for, and you are ~not~ happy? <sighs> How the times have changed.... :( Well, I'd have to agree that 10 hours is a bit excessive for regular rewards. It just comes down to bang for your buck, and when your an adult with a busy schedule having extra long rpg sessions is actually taking value away. One of the biggest reasons to play rpga modules are because of the modular nature and four hour time slots. That's pretty managable to for someone with a busy schedule. Adding more time to the session doesn't tend to boost the "fun" factor more, instead it leads to late nights, thousand yard stares and exhaustion the next day. Getting regular rewards for that experience doesn't exactly produce wide eyed grins. The two session of of the Eyes module have been fun, though I haven't seen anything from either story that couldn't have been done with less encounters. I know both mods ended with encounters that definitely didn't need to be there to propell the story forward. Both felt tacked on and just adding more time to an already extended session. The zillions of encounters in the mod itself left things a bit foggy, but I'm pretty confident some of that could have been edited out also. Just like movies, adding length doesn't necessarily increase the quality of the experience. I am enjoying Xen'drik, certainly far more than Living Greyhawk, and having fun roleplaying with friends is part of the draw, but I'm hard pressed to think of anyone I know who plays rpga games that aren't motivated by the rewards and advancement. I know for myself that if I knew I was getting double rewards then I'd find the grind of really long rpg sessions far more enjoyable.
Timlagor 07-30-07, 06:41 AM	I can sympathise with people who find 10 hours too long to spend on a session. I have absolutely no sympathy for the attitude that the rewards are the most important part of the game ..or anything but insignificant beside the quality of 'gameplay'. I certainly like getting my EV and XP and nice story Objects but they are in no way the reason I play. [For the record I'm well over on the power-gamer side of the scale.]
echoota 07-30-07, 09:54 AM	I can sympathise with people who find 10 hours too long to spend on a session. I have absolutely no sympathy for the attitude that the rewards are the most important part of the game ..or anything but insignificant beside the quality of 'gameplay'. I certainly like getting my EV and XP and nice story Objects but they are in no way the reason I play. [For the record I'm well over on the power-gamer side of the scale.] I don't know if I understand that. Your a power gamer, you like getting EV, XP and Story Objects, but it's all "insignifiant" to the quality of the gameplay. That doesn't make any sense to me. What exactly is the quality of the gameplay? There is a host of rpgs out there that stress all sorts of storytelling aspects. One of the central things about D&D is "getting stuff". If you didn't get stuff then I can't comprehend what the appeal to D&D would be since the whole system is built on mathematical advancement. CR's, Encounter Levels, xp and gold formulas, leveling every 13 encounters, etc. The whole system stresses accumulation of stuff. Other rpg systems make no effort at stressing the accumulation of stuff and thus it can focus on the less materialistic aspects of rpgs better. From all the time I played in the Storyteller systems like Vampire it always seemed like most of my xp came from how well I roleplayed. I certainly don't want to diminish the idea that to get the most fun out of an rpga experience you ought to inject as much roleplaying as possible and be sensitive to the group and individual needs at the table. However, and I know it's kind of a blasphemy on the forums to state this, but I have no problem digging in my heels and proclaiming to the world that as far as I can see the accumulation of stuff and the advancement of your character is one of the central pillars of D&D. The system stresses it so much that it's really hard to understand how people can dismiss it. Then tack on the whole rpga model for playing D&D and it pushes that even farther with the whole table slot system... but I've run out of time.
Istaran 07-30-07, 03:10 PM	I would suggest Timlagor is defining a powergamer more as someone who optimizes their character for power within a given amount of resources (level, EV/wealth, etc). Power-gameriness in D&D is inherently relative to level; an 'iconic' of your level would be the baseline against which you should be compared. Having twice as high of a level doesn't make you more power-gamery, even if it makes you more powerful. The EV + level bump system, I would argue, promotes the plausibility of an attitude such as Timlagor has expressed much more readily than, say, LG. In LG if you don't grind the levels, seek out the access, accumulate the wealth, etc. then you don't get anywhere powerwise. You are more or less stuck 'as is'. The level of abstraction presented by XE's campaign mechanics mean that your power level is much more determined by your character build/loadout choices than anything the modules have to offer. Some of the story objects can be quite potent, but ultimate EV is just EV, and some minimum level of XP/EV is guaranteed over time. Some people have complained that the level bump system means people don't have to play to get the XP and EV up. Exactly so. The reward for playing those mods in each 6 mo interval, for those characters which cannot for whatever reason be kept up w/ the bumps, is not XP, nor EV, and it is only modestly the story objects: rather it is the enjoyment of playing the game itself. By giving a sense of inevitability to gainging the XP and EV that are the staples of character power, it frees people up more to focus on building a character they will enjoy (be it a power-gamery uber-character, or some fun but less effective oddball character, or just a simple straightforeward iconic-esque character or whatever) and then spend the time enjoying playing them. If you want to level-grind in XE, you certainly can; playing all the mods will put you well ahead of the bump, as others have testified in another thread. But it does seem much more secondary in XE than in LG for example.
Harliquinn 07-30-07, 03:23 PM	I like to play all the modules so I can have an understanding of what is going on overall. I hate missing out on something storywise that will later come back. All the factions have recently tied in past story objects/adventures with current ones. I really enjoy having played the earlier ones and knowing what is going on.
Istaran 07-30-07, 03:41 PM	I like to play all the modules so I can have an understanding of what is going on overall. I hate missing out on something storywise that will later come back. All the factions have recently tied in past story objects/adventures with current ones. I really enjoy having played the earlier ones and knowing what is going on. Same here. I've noticed GMing that several times the players at my table were missing out on some coolness in CoL because none of my players played faction adventures 1 or 2 (though I DMed them at a con, so at least I'm not lost).
lseelba 07-30-07, 04:43 PM	Same here. I've noticed GMing that several times the players at my table were missing out on some coolness in CoL because none of my players played faction adventures 1 or 2 (though I DMed them at a con, so at least I'm not lost). I certainly am. I've played almost all the CoL mods between the level bumps, and in fact beat the level 7 bump with CoL mods alone. Yet I still have no idea who this 'Grave' character everyone is speaking of. I wish I would have played CoL 1, 2, and 3 :(
Timlagor 07-30-07, 11:48 PM	I don't know if I understand that. Your a power gamer, you like getting EV, XP and Story Objects, but it's all "insignifiant" to the quality of the gameplay. That doesn't make any sense to me. What exactly is the quality of the gameplay? Actually it would probably be more accurate to restrict my 'powergamer' description to the character building process. I love to smash the enemies but I wouldn't want to dominate combats single-handed more than occasionally. What I said was "beside gameplay". I realised this wasn't terribly clear but hopes it would be comprehensible, I'll expand on it now though Istarran was broadly correct. I don't play this game for the sake of being able to say "I have X Y and Z". I play for the sake of being able to sit down at a table and play a game I enjoy. When I wrote "Gameplay", I meant the playing experience including such factors as: - a "good" module (self-consistent entertaining storyline with well-written 'boxtext', room for PCs to make meaningful choices and interesting combats ...this could fill pages) - a good GM - good players with - good characters ..coming together for "good roleplaying" OK those things are pretty subjective and vague. I certainly do like to have nice rewards and "get stuff" but I'd much rather have a highly enjoyable 10 hour game with very little "stuff" at the end than a tedious 3 hour game with "loadsa loot". "loadsa loot" is certainly nice and will compensate for a game that is mediocre in another category but it can never make up for an otherwise really bad game* ..and it is of course important that it doesn't get out of hand. The quality of the playing experience is simply vastly more important that the "rewards" at the end. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the rewards.. "gameplay" is just much more important to me. * For example I consider Something of Value to be the worst LG game I ever played but I think the AR actually had some faily nice stuff on it.. nobody cared.
Diablo05 07-31-07, 12:03 PM	I certainly am. I've played almost all the CoL mods between the level bumps, and in fact beat the level 7 bump with CoL mods alone. Yet I still have no idea who this 'Grave' character everyone is speaking of. I wish I would have played CoL 1, 2, and 3 :( You should. Grave was in CoL 5 (I BELIEVE it was his first appearance in CoL, but I could be wrong). Maybe your group just skipped over that encounter. I also know he had cameo's in CoS 4, and EXP 3. Cool character.
Evanta 07-31-07, 12:20 PM	You should. Grave was in CoL 5 (I BELIEVE it was his first appearance in CoL, but I could be wrong). Maybe your group just skipped over that encounter. I also know he had cameo's in CoS 4, and EXP 3. Cool character. Grave was around since COL 2. My cleric had comtemplated smiting him then, cuz he had evil vibes, but then decided that, since he could cast animate dead, he was probably, way more powerful than I am at that point. :P
Istaran 07-31-07, 01:37 PM	You should. Grave was in CoL 5 (I BELIEVE it was his first appearance in CoL, but I could be wrong). Maybe your group just skipped over that encounter. I also know he had cameo's in CoS 4, and EXP 3. Cool character. In CoL 5, Grave was an optional encounter. I think my party almost missed him, and certainly didn't need his help by the time they got to him. You should have spoken to him just to be thorough if nothing else; he was the expert witness after all.
Mherduwynn 07-31-07, 08:05 PM	Grave was around since COL 2. My cleric had comtemplated smiting him then, cuz he had evil vibes, but then decided that, since he could cast animate dead, he was probably, way more powerful than I am at that point. :P <chuckles> You almost smote Grave because "he had evil vibes"? :) Your character never really paid much attention to the Litany of the Covenant, huh? -A
Evanta 07-31-07, 09:25 PM	<chuckles> You almost smote Grave because "he had evil vibes"? :) Your character never really paid much attention to the Litany of the Covenant, huh? -A Hey, he was a zealous cleric of the Silver Flame after all, at least initailly. :D His holier-than-thou attitude changed quite a bit later, after he contracted 2 separate sets of nightmares that will haunt him to the end of his days, was in cahoots with a blackguard, and carries a tome around filled with blasphemous writing. The change is not for the better (nowadays he is perpetually in the shade, eyes are bloodshot due to lack of sleep, and occassionally he has fits of bloodlust, during which his morningstar Judicator will start dripping blood). But hey! It's a big change of outlook on life...
JJeff 08-01-07, 12:03 AM	<chuckles> You almost smote Grave because "he had evil vibes"? :) Your character never really paid much attention to the Litany of the Covenant, huh? -A Well, I WAS trying to do a good job of describing that Speak with Dead scene for poor Evanta over here like you rold us to in the mod.... Loads of people tried to do things to Grave that day... And for the record: Grave appears in COL2, COL5, EXP 2 and EXP 3 (Did I miss any?).... And since I have a little control, my EXP DM's Mark 1
lseelba 08-01-07, 12:40 AM	Well, I WAS trying to do a good job of describing that Speak with Dead scene for poor Evanta over here like you rold us to in the mod.... Loads of people tried to do things to Grave that day... And for the record: Grave appears in COL2, COL5, EXP 2 and EXP 3 (Did I miss any?).... And since I have a little control, my EXP DM's Mark 1 He was the necromancer in CoL5 right? The one who wanted us to deliver a very evil item to another evil guy? -Lou
JJeff 08-01-07, 12:46 AM	He's the forensic expert that handled (or rather melted) the bloody nightgown.
lseelba 08-01-07, 12:59 AM	He's the forensic expert that handled (or rather melted) the bloody nightgown. OK yeah I'm pretty sure we never did that part :weep: One of these days I'll meet Grave...
JJeff 08-01-07, 01:12 AM	Sure you will, fishes... sure you will... Lap you next wave....
Istaran 08-01-07, 01:59 PM	He was the necromancer in CoL5 right? The one who wanted us to deliver a very evil item to another evil guy? -Lou Don't know how your DM ran it, but at least as written Grave had nothing to say on the delivery of said item. There was another NPC that was scripted to encourage said delivery.
JJeff 08-01-07, 08:52 PM	He just got confused.... so many NPCs... some appearing out of alleyways... some waiting in warehouses with their pet howlers... it's easy to ge confused.
Mherduwynn 08-03-07, 02:19 AM	Those wacky NPCs and their howlers... :) -A
Evanta 08-09-07, 12:24 PM	Can we get back to topic? :P I would also want to know what the recent EV boost is.
Harliquinn 08-09-07, 02:25 PM	19,000 gp
Evanta 08-11-07, 01:12 AM	19,000 gp Dude, I already have more than 19k. On behalf of all the Singapore group who seem to have a lot of database errors coming up, we need to know what is the EV for lich queen part I, II, and the EXP-4 and EXP-5 mods.
Harliquinn 08-11-07, 09:35 AM	If you have more than 19k, you won't be affected by the level bump. My codex character who played everything ended up with 33050gp
Evanta 08-11-07, 12:27 PM	If you have more than 19k, you won't be affected by the level bump. My codex character who played everything ended up with 33050gp um, Have u read why we are asking to know about the average rewards? Some of our adventures had errors that hasn't been rectified even after 1 month of waiting. We are asking for average EV for those advetures so that we can continue on despite the screw-ups in the data base.
Skerrit 08-11-07, 12:41 PM	We are no longer allowed to hand out those numbers and HQ tells me everything is going well with the database. The errors that are commonly being seen are usually input errors where someone makes a mistake while reporting an event. So if you have an issue, you need to contact the half dozen dozen or so different places that you can report errors and hope one of them responds. I'm sorry the FMs don't actually have anyway to assist you. This stuff is all out of our hands so we don't have anyway to correct mistakes.
Evanta 08-11-07, 07:53 PM	We are no longer allowed to hand out those numbers and HQ tells me everything is going well with the database. The errors that are commonly being seen are usually input errors where someone makes a mistake while reporting an event. So if you have an issue, you need to contact the half dozen dozen or so different places that you can report errors and hope one of them responds. I'm sorry the FMs don't actually have anyway to assist you. This stuff is all out of our hands so we don't have anyway to correct mistakes. Which means basically we're screwed, and there's nothing that can be done unless by some miraculous hope things get fixed? Ok, I can take that I guess. *sigh* (BTW, our DM actually triple-checked before sending it in, and it still bumped the wrong characters. Go figure about the 'database working fine' part. Not your fault or anything, but yeah.)
lseelba 08-12-07, 12:02 AM	Dude, I already have more than 19k. On behalf of all the Singapore group who seem to have a lot of database errors coming up, we need to know what is the EV for lich queen part I, II, and the EXP-4 and EXP-5 mods. A conservative number for the EV from those four modules would be 10,000. Lou
Timlagor 08-14-07, 06:59 AM	rpgasanctioning@wizards.com seems to be the best address -and you need the Senior GM to send in the e-mail.
Evanta 08-14-07, 11:34 AM	rpgasanctioning@wizards.com seems to be the best address -and you need the Senior GM to send in the e-mail. It's a home game - how is there going to be a senior GM? Anyway, my DM and I have sent multiple e-mails to rpgasanctioning, we have been flatly ignored.
Harliquinn 08-14-07, 01:12 PM	Whoever orders the event is always the "Senior GM". For Home games it's assumed the Senior GM is also the running GM.
Skerrit 08-14-07, 02:33 PM	I doubt they've been flatly ignored. WOTC's email is notoriously buggy and they don't seem to get a lot of stuff. I know that they answer every email about a reporting mistake that they recieved prior to the level bump. The most important part of dealing with a reporting error is making sure that the person that ordered the event (the senior GM) is the person that contacts HQ.