Is Xen'drik Expeditions becoming the paperwork campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Xen'drik Expeditions becoming the paperwork campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DBlizzard
07-06-07, 09:20 PM After a long hiatus with this campaign it looks like it will be restarting in my area. We have a number of the existing players and quite a few new players. However, in organizing this I've noticed how much this is becoming the "paperwork campaign."

Back with Mark of Heroes it was pretty easy. We weren't being concerned with anally tracking every detail of a character. If a player wanted to change most of their character (with certain limits) from game to game it was considered fine. Sure, if this was taken to extremes it would hurt character continuity, but the option was scads of character tracking.

In practice, we had almost no major changes of character. Most of the time that we did it was because a new player was changing poor character choice based on their experience.

However, XE has gone the other direction. I know I pretty much have to bury my existing characters because I've lost the character tracker for them (the character sheet I have on my computer). I would be surprised if any of my existing group still has theirs.

Plus, I have to not only explain the arcane rules and reason for them to my new players, but I have to explain why every minute character change is tracked on a what could become a multi-page document.

IIRC, the D&D Campaigns were partially designed to avoid the paper trail. They got better with this when story objects started being tracked in the RPGA database.

Has it gone to far? What are the experiences of those that have been sticking it out from the beginning?

I imagine the regulars posting here have been playing consistently, and have had less issues. How about the rest of your players? Are the rest of the regulars content? How about the ones that only show up once every few games, are they keeping everything?
WolfStar76
07-06-07, 10:39 PM I've often thought that it would be handy if all the paperwork (read: Adventure Journals) were tracked online.

Now, an online tracker wouldn't have to be E-Tools or any similar program, In fact, I wouldn't even say it has to "check" any work except *maybe* base ability scores (to make sure you've spent 25 points) and it should thereafter allow a digital version of your adventure journal to be created.

Things that coudl auto-populate from session to session would be who you played with and what character/class they were. Story objects. Gold/EXP could be listed (I don't know that its needed, but I also don't *really* see why it's hidden - though, I suppose some people would use that to compare and contrast. "You only got 2kEXP on that? Man, my group sucked and we got 2.5k". . . I digress).

The rest of the fields could be optional. Wanna type up notes of what you remember being important from the mission? Great, toss 'em in there. Want to jot down a note as to why you unlocked something? Put it there as well.

This would still create a lot of paperwork when printed, but you wouldn't *have* to print it all. Give people the chance to print that info and bring it with them - it's still neater and easier than keeping a scattered paper trail.

This doesn't really answer the question you posed - so I'd have to say, while it still doesn't seem as bad as LG (though, that's stated from an outsiders POV - I don't actually play LG myself), it's not as "simple" as we'd once hoped.

I know the kinds of changes I dream of won't happen for XE, but I can dream we'd see it, perhaps for the next D&D Campaign.
lseelba
07-07-07, 01:50 AM I'm not a huge LG player, but from what limited experience I have had playing LG and dealing with AR's, Xen'drik is much simpler.
DBlizzard
07-07-07, 03:00 AM I know the kinds of changes I dream of won't happen for XE, but I can dream we'd see it, perhaps for the next D&D Campaign.

Indeed, that is my hope. Discuss this now so that any suggested problems can be addressed in the next campaign.
Timlagor
07-07-07, 10:18 AM You really want to put more strain on the WotC IT department? You don't think they've made enough problems?
Marcus Majarra
07-07-07, 11:46 AM It wouldn't be much of a stress for the WotC IT department if RPGA campaigns brought in direct profit. It's of no surprise that the IT infrastructure for the RPGA is somewhat lacking; actual production IT infrastructures will probably take priority.

This said, I would be favorable to the RPGA community developping such an infrastructure (much like an open license design/development project).
Timlagor
07-07-07, 01:18 PM I'm pretty sure WotC wouldn't tolerate such a system being used outside their control.

Being free is a major aspect of the RPGA and I doubt that will change any time soon.
lordtiberiusfoxx
07-07-07, 01:25 PM Uuuuh no. An adventure journal holds three adventures per page, as opposed to an AR per adventure at minimum. XE has no master item logsheet. XE has no magic item creation sheets. XE has no meta-org documentation (except obscura, which is a page)

It takes a full binder to store each LG character that I have, as opposed to a binder for all XE factions. For one character, I had to put an index in the front to let me know which ARs my curses were on so my character wouldn't get penalized for accidental non-declaration.

Has XE hybridized aspects of a living campaign? Yes. However, Mark of Heroes and (Sovereign Host help us) Green Regent had no accountability whatsoever. By the way those campaigns were set up, it was more to the player's benefit to meet before the game and retool characters together to form a balanced party, completely divorcing from character growth.
DBlizzard
07-07-07, 02:00 PM You really want to put more strain on the WotC IT department? You don't think they've made enough problems?

Because of the Digital Initiative the WotC IT department is (has been) getting a large upgrade. They have already discussed such things as an online character generator that can store several characters. Since they are developing it, it's not a huge extra effort to adapt it to a more advanced RPGA character tracker.
Has XE hybridized aspects of a living campaign? Yes. However, Mark of Heroes and (Sovereign Host help us) Green Regent had no accountability whatsoever.

And that was a bad thing? Again, I didn't see any issues with this. How did this hurt player fun?

By the way those campaigns were set up, it was more to the player's benefit to meet before the game and retool characters together to form a balanced party, completely divorcing from character growth.

Again, how common was this?

As for "divorcing from character growth," I submit that if players did this, they did it because they choose to. These are the players that weren't very interested in character growth, and so they aren't helped by any supposed gains. Did doing this, when it happened, hurt the other player's fun? I don't see it (except maybe those few players who are focused on enforcing their view of "proper fun" on other players).
Timlagor
07-12-07, 08:10 PM Because of the Digital Initiative the WotC IT department is (has been) getting a large upgrade. They have already discussed such things as an online character generator that can store several characters. Since they are developing it, it's not a huge extra effort to adapt it to a more advanced RPGA character tracker.

Let's see them make it work reliably before we rely on it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DBlizzard 07-06-07, 09:20 PM	After a long hiatus with this campaign it looks like it will be restarting in my area. We have a number of the existing players and quite a few new players. However, in organizing this I've noticed how much this is becoming the "paperwork campaign." Back with Mark of Heroes it was pretty easy. We weren't being concerned with anally tracking every detail of a character. If a player wanted to change most of their character (with certain limits) from game to game it was considered fine. Sure, if this was taken to extremes it would hurt character continuity, but the option was scads of character tracking. In practice, we had almost no major changes of character. Most of the time that we did it was because a new player was changing poor character choice based on their experience. However, XE has gone the other direction. I know I pretty much have to bury my existing characters because I've lost the character tracker for them (the character sheet I have on my computer). I would be surprised if any of my existing group still has theirs. Plus, I have to not only explain the arcane rules and reason for them to my new players, but I have to explain why every minute character change is tracked on a what could become a multi-page document. IIRC, the D&D Campaigns were partially designed to avoid the paper trail. They got better with this when story objects started being tracked in the RPGA database. Has it gone to far? What are the experiences of those that have been sticking it out from the beginning? I imagine the regulars posting here have been playing consistently, and have had less issues. How about the rest of your players? Are the rest of the regulars content? How about the ones that only show up once every few games, are they keeping everything?
WolfStar76 07-06-07, 10:39 PM	I've often thought that it would be handy if all the paperwork (read: Adventure Journals) were tracked online. Now, an online tracker wouldn't have to be E-Tools or any similar program, In fact, I wouldn't even say it has to "check" any work except maybe base ability scores (to make sure you've spent 25 points) and it should thereafter allow a digital version of your adventure journal to be created. Things that coudl auto-populate from session to session would be who you played with and what character/class they were. Story objects. Gold/EXP could be listed (I don't know that its needed, but I also don't really see why it's hidden - though, I suppose some people would use that to compare and contrast. "You only got 2kEXP on that? Man, my group sucked and we got 2.5k". . . I digress). The rest of the fields could be optional. Wanna type up notes of what you remember being important from the mission? Great, toss 'em in there. Want to jot down a note as to why you unlocked something? Put it there as well. This would still create a lot of paperwork when printed, but you wouldn't have to print it all. Give people the chance to print that info and bring it with them - it's still neater and easier than keeping a scattered paper trail. This doesn't really answer the question you posed - so I'd have to say, while it still doesn't seem as bad as LG (though, that's stated from an outsiders POV - I don't actually play LG myself), it's not as "simple" as we'd once hoped. I know the kinds of changes I dream of won't happen for XE, but I can dream we'd see it, perhaps for the next D&D Campaign.
lseelba 07-07-07, 01:50 AM	I'm not a huge LG player, but from what limited experience I have had playing LG and dealing with AR's, Xen'drik is much simpler.
DBlizzard 07-07-07, 03:00 AM	I know the kinds of changes I dream of won't happen for XE, but I can dream we'd see it, perhaps for the next D&D Campaign. Indeed, that is my hope. Discuss this now so that any suggested problems can be addressed in the next campaign.
Timlagor 07-07-07, 10:18 AM	You really want to put more strain on the WotC IT department? You don't think they've made enough problems?
Marcus Majarra 07-07-07, 11:46 AM	It wouldn't be much of a stress for the WotC IT department if RPGA campaigns brought in direct profit. It's of no surprise that the IT infrastructure for the RPGA is somewhat lacking; actual production IT infrastructures will probably take priority. This said, I would be favorable to the RPGA community developping such an infrastructure (much like an open license design/development project).
Timlagor 07-07-07, 01:18 PM	I'm pretty sure WotC wouldn't tolerate such a system being used outside their control. Being free is a major aspect of the RPGA and I doubt that will change any time soon.
lordtiberiusfoxx 07-07-07, 01:25 PM	Uuuuh no. An adventure journal holds three adventures per page, as opposed to an AR per adventure at minimum. XE has no master item logsheet. XE has no magic item creation sheets. XE has no meta-org documentation (except obscura, which is a page) It takes a full binder to store each LG character that I have, as opposed to a binder for all XE factions. For one character, I had to put an index in the front to let me know which ARs my curses were on so my character wouldn't get penalized for accidental non-declaration. Has XE hybridized aspects of a living campaign? Yes. However, Mark of Heroes and (Sovereign Host help us) Green Regent had no accountability whatsoever. By the way those campaigns were set up, it was more to the player's benefit to meet before the game and retool characters together to form a balanced party, completely divorcing from character growth.
DBlizzard 07-07-07, 02:00 PM	You really want to put more strain on the WotC IT department? You don't think they've made enough problems? Because of the Digital Initiative the WotC IT department is (has been) getting a large upgrade. They have already discussed such things as an online character generator that can store several characters. Since they are developing it, it's not a huge extra effort to adapt it to a more advanced RPGA character tracker. Has XE hybridized aspects of a living campaign? Yes. However, Mark of Heroes and (Sovereign Host help us) Green Regent had no accountability whatsoever. And that was a bad thing? Again, I didn't see any issues with this. How did this hurt player fun? By the way those campaigns were set up, it was more to the player's benefit to meet before the game and retool characters together to form a balanced party, completely divorcing from character growth. Again, how common was this? As for "divorcing from character growth," I submit that if players did this, they did it because they choose to. These are the players that weren't very interested in character growth, and so they aren't helped by any supposed gains. Did doing this, when it happened, hurt the other player's fun? I don't see it (except maybe those few players who are focused on enforcing their view of "proper fun" on other players).
Timlagor 07-12-07, 08:10 PM	Because of the Digital Initiative the WotC IT department is (has been) getting a large upgrade. They have already discussed such things as an online character generator that can store several characters. Since they are developing it, it's not a huge extra effort to adapt it to a more advanced RPGA character tracker. Let's see them make it work reliably before we rely on it.